[HN Gopher] The cameras and lenses used on the latest Oscar nomi...
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       The cameras and lenses used on the latest Oscar nominated films
        
       Author : belter
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2022-01-13 19:49 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.premiumbeat.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.premiumbeat.com)
        
       | 323 wrote:
       | The most expensive cameras and lenses are the ones used in TV
       | broadcast, like the ones used for sporting events. Those giant
       | long box shaped high luminosity 20x zoom lenses cost $250k+.
       | 
       | https://ymcinema.com/2021/08/03/meet-the-fujinon-sk35-700mm-...
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | Even if you could afford the camera you still couldn't make
       | anything like a Hollywood movie. The amount of control a film
       | crew exerts over what they're shooting is pretty staggering to
       | anyone who hasn't spent time in a studio or a film set. Literally
       | everything is controlled. Everything is logged. A set has to be
       | reset between takes, which means knowing where everything is,
       | what settings all the cameras, lights, etc had, everyone standing
       | on marks taped on the floor, etc. A great camera is important to
       | any scene, but there is _so much more_ to filming anything.
       | 
       | (Background: I studied Broadcast Engineering at uni and spent
       | time around television studios 25 years ago. It's a lot of fun,
       | but intensely laborious, and ultimately making things on the
       | internet proved more exciting..)
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | What is a 'Hollywood' movie? If you mean something released by
         | one of the major Los Angeles-based studios, then sure.
         | Otherwise there are a ton of feature length movies made with a
         | shoestring budget and none of the effort you mention which get
         | a wide release and get immensely popular and profitable.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Although I don't disagree with you, I think that number is
           | much smaller that it might look like.
           | 
           | Same thing applies to home recorded albums or NPR style
           | concerts.
           | 
           | What looks like just made on shoestring, its just the most
           | exquisite work of very experienced professionals, making use
           | of all their knowledge and years and years of experience.
           | What looks like the use of minimalist resources, are smart
           | choices whose modus operandi is only accessible to the best
           | professionals.
           | 
           | NPR (Tiny Desk) concerts are the best example.
        
             | netr0ute wrote:
             | > the most exquisite work of very experienced
             | professionals, making use of all their knowledge and years
             | and years of experience
             | 
             | Weird Al's first album was mainly recorded in the Cal Poly
             | bathroom and look where he is now.
        
         | Rodeoclash wrote:
         | I was also astounded how much CG goes into movies. For context,
         | I was an extra in Lord of the Rings ~20 years ago and almost
         | every arrow in Helm's Deep was added in post.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | That deserves a post in itself :-) Were Orcs allowed toilet
           | breaks in full costume?
        
             | plussed_reader wrote:
             | Probably something special in the thigh pad.....
        
         | gist wrote:
         | > Even if you could afford the camera you still couldn't make
         | anything like a Hollywood movie.
         | 
         | But what is a 'hollywood' movie? Do you mean one where
         | predictably (like a Spielberg film) there is a certain level of
         | technical expertise that comes off as very polished and
         | perfect? Where I will add that that is not even the most
         | important factor in many movies. After all movies are really
         | entertainment and it's easy to be entertained by something that
         | (if done well) was done on high end prosumer equipment. Now me
         | personally I don't like the polished up 'hollywood' look
         | either. It's almost to perfect and really not appropriate for
         | every type of entertainment.
         | 
         | One thing I will say is that looking back and watching again
         | many movies that I loved in the 90's that are 'hollywood' I
         | don't like them as much as ones that I see now on Netflix.
         | (Many of those are done super well technically but many are not
         | and both often equally entertaining).
        
         | dmitriid wrote:
         | For most of us from outside the movies books like "The Devil's
         | Candy" (about Brian DePalma's making of "Bonfire of the
         | Vanities") also have a great insight into this.
         | 
         | It really is insane how much work and care goes into these
         | movies (even the bad ones).
        
           | TigeriusKirk wrote:
           | A friend who worked on crews on everything from Oscar winning
           | movies to direct to video schlock likes to say "It's just as
           | much work to make a bad movie as a good one."
        
         | lmilcin wrote:
         | Pretty much the same as buying high end DSLR.
         | 
         | The camera does not "make" pictures. The photographer does.
         | 
         | If you have no idea how to compose your shot or control
         | lighting, it is going to look bad regardless of how much
         | investment in the camera and lenses.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Even if you're just on camera for some documentary thing, the
         | amount of fussing with lights, sound, multiple camera angles
         | etc. is significant. The reality is that you can probably get
         | most of the way there these days with significantly cheaper
         | gear and most people wouldn't know the difference if the people
         | using the gear were competent. But it's still impressive what
         | goes into just a basic corporate talking head.
         | 
         | (Of course, a lot of people who go into shooting video for jobs
         | like this are often into gear and financing their hobby. And
         | even if showing up for the shoot with just an iPhone produces
         | good results, you probably shouldn't expect a followup job.)
        
           | soperj wrote:
           | A lot of scenes can be naturally lit. I know someone who does
           | documentaries solo, and they just make sure they interview
           | people in a place that works.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | I don't disagree. For interviews of any length, you
             | probably want a decent microphone, a tripod, and somewhere
             | quiet (unless you want something that's obviously in a
             | bustling setting). But if they're hiring a video crew most
             | companies probably expect a typical production video crew.
        
       | d136o wrote:
       | Possibly related, I've become a fan of recording videos on my
       | iPhone on 4K. On playback I just love the video quality, and I
       | don't care about how much space they take. Any 8k fans? I think
       | some android phones support it?
       | 
       | I'm not a pro or anything but amongst my family members I tend to
       | be the one who likes documenting the most, and I like the idea of
       | really high quality playback of special moments many years from
       | now.
        
         | eric__cartman wrote:
         | Rather than investing in a phone that can record in 8k (if it
         | even exists) I'd try and look into some entry level "proper"
         | cameras. The bigger sensors and better optics should provide a
         | bump in video quality. Mirrorless cameras aren't very large to
         | lug around when going on vacation or other places where
         | interesting events could be documented.
        
           | janekm wrote:
           | Somewhat surprisingly, it's actually easier to get good-
           | looking footage on an iPhone than say a mid-level mirrorless
           | camera. The iPhone has better built-in stabilisation and
           | handles high dynamic range more conveniently (built-in tone
           | mapping and HDR capture by taking multiple real captures per
           | video frame). Taking full advantage of a "proper" camera
           | takes additional equipment (tripod/gimbal / lights /
           | microphones / decent lenses).
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Definitely. A modern iPhone can do a pretty fantastic job
             | at capturing a somewhat cinema verite sort of video--with
             | appropriate eye and editing. For relatively modest
             | expenditure, you can take that to the next level. But it
             | probably requires hauling around a lot of gear and being
             | less spontaneous.
             | 
             | I was fairly interested in video at one point when film
             | (Super-8) was just transitioning to video. But it was all
             | such a hassle that I pretty much just kept to still. An
             | iPhone (or a videocam that's a few hundred dollars) would
             | have been so great.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Although once you're getting into "proper" cameras, you're
           | probably also talking about at least a tripod, maybe
           | steadicam, at that point. But, yes, once you're at 4K, I'd
           | definitely be thinking about other ways to move to the next
           | level than higher resolution.
        
             | d136o wrote:
             | This is a great point. Part of what I've liked about iPhone
             | shot videos is sound and stabilization.
             | 
             | So maybe there are some of those aspects which dedicated
             | cameras could do better without stepping up the resolution.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Traditional cameras--and the more traditional you get the
               | truer this probably gets--have been fairly, well,
               | terrible is probably not too overstated in software. One
               | could probably make nationalistic--or at least industry
               | related--comments related to that but I won't. (BTW I
               | have significant Canon and Fuji systems.) It's also
               | probably the case that the buyers of those cameras were
               | traditionally fine with software that was pretty hands-
               | off.
               | 
               | But, yes, if you combined APS-C Fuji, say, with the
               | software available in an iPhone you'd have a really
               | impressive instrument and presumably we'll get there some
               | day.
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | I think it is telling that even Hollywood is not yet on the 8K
         | bandwagon; for example the ARRI Alexa LF camera mentioned in
         | the article is "4.5K" and the Sony Venice is "6K"; I venture to
         | guess that vast majority of feature films are produced at 4k
         | currently. I find it unlikely that smartphone video footage
         | would be at this point significantly improved by changing
         | recording format to 8k.
        
         | asimpletune wrote:
         | I think the main reason people are shooting is 8K is that they
         | can crop into 4K more easily. It just means you don't have to
         | do as much planning with your framing.
        
           | d136o wrote:
           | Yes I was wondering if the smartphone push into 8k is almost
           | coming from the expected future of VR, but it may offer
           | benefits for users before getting all the way to VR playback
           | like you mention.
           | 
           | Collect all the video at a higher resolution than you can
           | display and then only show the small part which is in the
           | smaller user view field.
        
         | TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
         | The lenses are still very poor compared to pro gear (especially
         | like what we see in this article). This can be fixed in post
         | with lens distortion correction but there's no substitute for a
         | nice hunk of glass.
        
       | alexashka wrote:
       | This really misses the mark. Any 2-3k camera beats the image most
       | movies had 20 years ago.
       | 
       | The reason Hollywood uses expensive gear is because the _human_
       | cost is so enormous, that any improvement in gear to reduce human
       | cost becomes a no-brainer.
        
         | asimpletune wrote:
         | > This really misses the mark. Any 2-3k camera beats the image
         | most movies had 20 years ago.
         | 
         | Do you mean beats any _digital_ camera 20 years ago? Because I
         | think film cameras back then were phenomenal.
        
         | throwawayboise wrote:
         | A studio-quality 35mm movie camera is roughly equivalent to 4K
         | digital in terms of resolution. It is only 16 frames per second
         | though so rapid motion is not as smooth.
        
       | robbrown451 wrote:
       | It's just a matter of time before someone wins an Oscar for best
       | cinematography and does it using a couple thousand dollars worth
       | of equipment.
       | 
       | Recently Finneas won the Grammy for best engineered album (for
       | his sister Billie Eilish's album), and he did everything except
       | the very final mastering on equipment that cost less than a
       | typical car. Including recording vocals and some acoustic
       | instruments in their parents' house.
       | 
       | The recording industry isn't that different from the film
       | industry, where most things are done on ridiculously expensive
       | equipment. But it is increasingly unnecessary.
        
       | gist wrote:
       | Classic supply and demand. The price is set based on the market
       | and the demand if these were created in any type of quantity
       | they'd cost very little ... obviously. Essentially like any
       | expensive machine these are custom machines for a very limited
       | and particular purpose. The rental is a strategy that makes sense
       | (to extract the most revenue) after all tech moves on and there
       | is no reason to have a camera for another film when something
       | better will most likely exist.
        
       | gxqoz wrote:
       | I read a book recently on technical advances in early Hollywood.
       | One chapter was on cinematographers. To start, they were using
       | off-the-shelf consumer tech. It was the responsibility of the
       | cinematographer to provide their own equipment (and hold it, one
       | but not the only reason why there weren't many women in the job).
       | As the 1920s went on, cameras eventually became expensive enough
       | that the business model had to change. Now studios purchased them
       | and provided them to cinematographers working on specific films.
       | This was part of the broader move to the studio system.
       | 
       | It was still a while before there were a lot of Hollywood-
       | specific cameras developed. It was still a niche market compared
       | to, say, home movies.
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | Isn't that the joke in _The Disaster Artist_ when Tommy buys the
       | gear instead of renting it? The implication being that one does
       | not simply _buy_ movie-making gear. (And the secondary
       | implication being,  "where the fuck does Tommy get all this
       | money?") Not that I know the first thing about making a movie.
        
         | dntrkv wrote:
         | The other part of the joke is he bought both a film and digital
         | camera. He then shot the movie using both formats. They were
         | the first to do this. Tommy was such a visionary.
        
         | busterarm wrote:
         | The joke there is mostly about the secondary implication.
         | 
         | People actually do buy movie-making gear and loaning it out to
         | people a way to earn cash/favors or network in the industry.
         | 
         | Luis Guzman owns a ton of camera gear that he still keeps in
         | his lower east side apartment and that he lends out to crews of
         | movies produced by friends of his.
         | 
         | The closer you end up to low-mid budget filmmaking in your
         | career, the more you'll be sourcing equipment from people.
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | Camera cost is negligible compared to cost of a production. No
       | one buys equipment to shoot a movie at that level too. Camera,
       | albeit important, is also not the single most important factor in
       | percieved image look; There's also glass, light, grip, production
       | design, post. And ultimately and most importantly - knowing how
       | to use all of that. On top of it, you cannot do it all alone.
       | People that do (know) cost a lot more than any of the above and
       | you need them, on average anywhere between 30-90 days without
       | much sleep during principal photography, not to mention all of
       | the prep and post work.
       | 
       | Tl;dr; it's about camera as software is about text editor.
        
       | jerojero wrote:
       | Maybe a more interesting article would be the cameras and lenses
       | used in the best short films and whatnot? Those tend to be done
       | in a much more budget-friendly manner and in reality if you want
       | to become a good film maker you will always start with shorts
       | rather than full length films.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Meanwhile the world is busy filming with iPhones, and at any
       | second a movie shot with one/them will win an Oscar.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | If you mean in any one of the major categories (best Picture,
         | Direction, Cinematography, Sound Editing/Mixing etc.), then it
         | is not going to happen anytime soon, probably ever. There are
         | still several generational gaps between the mainstream
         | equipment in use today and a phone camera.
         | 
         | I can see an iPhone-shot movie getting best documentary short
         | or whatever, but that's it.
        
         | zactato wrote:
         | I think this might take another generation. The Oscars
         | represent the high production values/costs of the entertainment
         | industry. Giving an Oscar to a 17 year old with an iPhone would
         | threaten the foundation of a lot of that industry.
         | 
         | I suspect we'll see a tipping point soon (if we haven't
         | already) where more minutes of time are spent watching content
         | produced on an iPhone vs an expensive film camera.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | You'll almost certainly see some short documentary or short
           | subject at some point. (i.e. something almost no one ever
           | sees) But other costs so dominate the actual photography,
           | there's little reason to expect a studio to economize on the
           | cinematography (and sound, etc.) other than someone doing it
           | as a stunt.
        
           | TigeriusKirk wrote:
           | >I suspect we'll see a tipping point soon (if we haven't
           | already) where more minutes of time are spent watching
           | content produced on an iPhone vs an expensive film camera.
           | 
           | Counting Youtube/TikTok/whatever, this must have tipped years
           | ago.
        
           | lostcolony wrote:
           | A 17 year old with an iPhone, maybe.
           | 
           | Happily, plenty of industry veterans are finding uses for
           | camera phones. https://momofilmfest.com/oscar-winning-claude-
           | lelouch-cannes...
        
           | beavertrilogy wrote:
           | "Tangerine" got pretty close. Made it to Sundance and that
           | was in 2014/2015 with an iPhone 5S.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_(film)
           | 
           | The threat to the industry definitely appears to be the
           | bigger hurdle, but don't discount workflow. Offloading from
           | an iPhone is non-trivial, especially when all big-budget
           | movies employ at least one DIT (if not an entire team) to
           | manage this process.
        
         | lostcolony wrote:
         | Searching for Sugar Man won Best Documentary in 2013 and was
         | partially shot on an iPhone.
        
         | byw wrote:
         | I suspect at the same time Oscar will gradually become less
         | relevant as people's attentions will be divided between
         | Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes.
        
       | omoikane wrote:
       | I think the correct link should be
       | https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/cameras-behind-oscar-nomina...
       | 
       | This matches the title of the post. Either that or update the
       | current title to be "You Can't Afford This Expensive Hollywood
       | Camera Gear".
        
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