[HN Gopher] Zooko: Decentralized, immutable and uncensorable mic...
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       Zooko: Decentralized, immutable and uncensorable microblogging
        
       Author : abriosi
       Score  : 72 points
       Date   : 2022-01-12 20:42 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | navbaker wrote:
       | I understand the very basics of blockchain technology, but I
       | guess I'm missing some context or background that would allow me
       | to make the mental connection between "blockchain" and
       | "unblockable microblog". Does anyone have a good pointer to
       | something that would explain this more in-depth/like I'm 5?
        
         | wepple wrote:
         | My guess is that because blockchain is decentralized, in theory
         | nobody could censor or block it, because nobody "controls" the
         | blockchain.
         | 
         | Compared with any modern social media site which is mutable and
         | controlled by an organization who gets to police content
         | 
         | Edit: a good example of this is that folks have put malicious
         | content into the various blockchains (ascii images of child
         | harm material, or strings of data that trigger antivirus). You
         | can't stop it being added, and once it's there you cannot
         | remove it.
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | > You can't stop it being added
           | 
           | It really depends what you mean by "you", of course I can't,
           | but miners can since they are the one actively adding stuff
           | to the chain. In fact, they may even be legally responsible
           | for what they add to a blockchain (IANAL though), and since
           | miners are physical entities most of whom have a publicly
           | known IP address, it may even be realistically enforceable.
        
         | m3kw9 wrote:
         | Eventually a company providing a UI layer will be the central
         | access point for all the content coming from the block chain.
         | The central point will then be able to censor posts. This is no
         | different from OpenSea, or Coinbase.
        
         | roywiggins wrote:
         | I think it's embedding posts directly into the chain, so if you
         | can sync the chain then you can access everyone's posts. Since
         | these posts are cryptographically embedded in the chain you
         | can't block any of them without blocking access to the entire
         | chain, or attacking the chain and rewriting history.
        
       | romaniitedomum wrote:
       | Oh dear. Another allegedly censorship resistant platform, and
       | where do they put their code? On the most censored and censorable
       | place possible, github. It's just one DMCA complaint away from
       | being taken down, or Microsoft may decide to just lock out some
       | or all of the developers.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | There you go.
         | 
         | It is no wonder that these projects that claim to be
         | 'decentralised' still relying on using centralised services
         | like Discord, GitHub, Etherscan, Coinmarketcap, Coinbase,
         | Binance and Twitter, and they scream about 'web3'. Whatever
         | that means.
         | 
         | On your point towards Github there is a solution and that is to
         | self-host the source code via using something like GitLab,
         | cgit, gerrit, etc in which many free and open source projects
         | already do this.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | Nothing stops a developer from putting their code elsewhere,
         | should it be taken off github.
         | 
         | Choosing a different host than GitHub to begin with is
         | basically self-censorship (as fewer will see it).
        
       | KETpXDDzR wrote:
       | I stopped reading after
       | 
       | "Handshake is an incredibly secure blockchain. While many other
       | chains are easy to abuse, Handshake is not one of them."
       | 
       | The claim that Handshake isn't easy to abuse lacks proof.
        
       | endisneigh wrote:
       | I don't understand the popularity of immutability and uncensor-
       | ability.
       | 
       | What if someone posts naked photos of their girlfriend on this?
       | 
       | Furthermore it says you can block access to the chain completely
       | do it doesn't even do what it claims.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | I was thinking about the children(tm), personally. I wouldn't
         | touch this technology with a 10 foot pole.
        
         | dannyw wrote:
         | some people believe information should be free, period.
         | 
         | There's am argument to be made that the drawbacks of revenge
         | porn are outweighed by the benefits of free access to
         | information.
        
           | endisneigh wrote:
           | you don't need this to have free access to info tho.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | > some people believe information should be free, period.
           | 
           | There is nothing wrong believing some ideology.
           | 
           | However, enforcing your beliefs without caring about
           | consequences is called extremism.
           | 
           | You can believe information must be free but acknowledge that
           | it don't include revenge porn. Or you can act like it doesn't
           | matter but then, you are a danger for the society.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | Every technology has pros and cons. The pro here is that some
         | blog about corruption can't be knocked offline by some
         | government authority lest they block the entire network, which
         | would be a problem if any businesses use such a decentralized
         | network for their own means. The con is that everything is
         | immutable and unchangeable, and that has consequences - for
         | reference, despite that the story about CP being on Bitcoin is
         | false[0], it's definitely possible if anyone ever wanted to
         | spend a few hundred thousands in gas fees to store an arbitrary
         | jpeg on ethereum.
         | 
         | 0: https://news.bitcoin.com/no-isnt-child-porn-bitcoin-
         | blockcha...
        
           | tablespoon wrote:
           | > The pro here is that some blog about corruption can't be
           | knocked offline by some government authority lest they block
           | the entire network...
           | 
           | Let's not kid ourselves with the idea that's even likely to
           | happen. The main use case of stuff like this is for people to
           | say stuff that would get them banned on Twitter, and most of
           | that consists of being an asshole or spreading lies.
           | 
           | The blog about corruption will be put up on real Twitter,
           | where the eyeballs are, and preserved by getting scraped by
           | some organization like the Archive Team and uploaded to the
           | Internet Archive.
        
       | YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote:
       | "Uncensorable" if all nodes go down it's down. It's like that
       | torrent/magnet you really want to have but it's at 0/0.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and presumably related:
       | 
       |  _Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm
       | Websites_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29513547 - Dec
       | 2021 (186 comments)
        
       | tablespoon wrote:
       | > Zooko was named after Zooko Wilcox O'Hearn, one of the few
       | remaining, original, Cypherpunks.
       | 
       | It's super weird to name a project after someone who's not dead,
       | and in this case not even that old (Wikipedia says he's 47).
        
         | SomeCallMeTim wrote:
         | It's extra weird when you know Zooko. One of his kids shared a
         | kindergarten class with my oldest and I used to hang out with
         | him.
         | 
         | Clicked on this to see if it was something he'd done.
        
       | fsiefken wrote:
       | i wonder how the handshake protocol compares with the hypercore
       | protocol or scuttlebut and if there are other similar suitable
       | protocols for social media. for example iris.to uses hypercore
       | https://hypercore-protocol.org/
        
       | an-allen wrote:
       | Ah an immutable blog! A feature literally no one wants and no one
       | has asked for!
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | ummm. government censorship is real
        
           | SomeCallMeTim wrote:
           | So are laws like the Right to be Forgotten. [0]
           | 
           | Which, as soon as one of them is violated, the entire system
           | will be torn down to stop it.
           | 
           | [0] https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1562/right-to-
           | be-fo...
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > Ah an immutable blog! A feature literally no one wants and no
         | one has asked for!
         | 
         | Must be the solution to some important problem, then! Let's try
         | to apply it everywhere and strongly insist that it's the
         | future.
        
         | hobs wrote:
         | It's almost like twitter users have been asking for an edit
         | button for N years, so let's make everything EVEN MORE
         | immutable!
        
           | mcculley wrote:
           | An edit button should also come with an immutable history of
           | edits.
        
         | thebean11 wrote:
         | Maybe not directly, but I actually see plenty of complaints
         | about link rot and news publications silently editing or
         | removing old articles.
        
           | rhizome wrote:
           | While at the same time, people are still receiving
           | consequences after the discovery of things they said and did
           | a long time ago. What a world!
        
           | Kadin wrote:
           | Nothing about "put it on a blockchain" helps that.
           | 
           | If you are actually putting the page contents onto the
           | blockchain, you have basically constructed an append-only,
           | replicated database. Which will almost certainly become
           | unmanageably large over time. (Why would a user want to
           | maintain a local archive of this content? There's no
           | incentive for them to keep it on their machine, aside from
           | wanting a copy of the content for themselves, which they
           | could achieve in any number of other ways. Like just...
           | saving it to disk.)
           | 
           | If you _aren 't_ actually putting the content into the
           | blockchain itself, but are really just storing a URL that
           | points to the content, you haven't solved the linkrot problem
           | at all. You've just created a very roundabout way to send
           | people URLs. You could put something like a PURL in there, or
           | a DOI, but that just moves the problem around. Again, _the
           | blockchain isn 't solving anything_.
           | 
           | Here's an easier solution, if you want to try and ensure the
           | availability of a piece of content into the future: strip it
           | down to its most minimal, plaintext version, and post that to
           | a well-known (and subject-appropriate) Usenet group. It will
           | immediately be archived in several places across the world,
           | which have a pretty good track record of keeping ahead of the
           | flow of incoming content and keeping it available. No, you
           | don't get a guaranteed URL, but the Message-ID is a very
           | unique search string that can be used later on to find it.
        
             | thebean11 wrote:
             | You are arguing against a point I didn't make, but I do
             | want to clarify the problem a little bit more since it is
             | pretty interesting. I agree that storing images or even
             | articles on a blockchain does not scale; that level of data
             | redundancy is a humongous waste for something like a tweet.
             | 
             | There's two issues at play here, immutability and
             | availability. Immutability is not too hard to solve with a
             | blockchain. You can hash pretty much any piece of digital
             | content, store the hash on-chain, and prove that the
             | content (hosted elsewhere) is identical to the original
             | content (assuming the chain is not susceptible to massive
             | block re orgs).
             | 
             | Availability is trickier. There are blockchain-related
             | projects that claim to solve it in a decentralized manner
             | by incentivizing a group of nodes to store it, and then
             | periodically submit proofs that they have it stored, but
             | I'm pretty fuzzy on the details there.
             | 
             | edit: Want to make it clear that I don't think blockchains
             | are the only potential solution to these immutability and
             | availability problems. That being said I'm pretty
             | optimistic that crypto _can_ solve these problems in a
             | decentralized way, sounds like you feel the opposite, but
             | let 's try to not let it devolve into the stereotypical HN
             | crypto flame war..
        
             | topspin wrote:
             | > Why would a user want to maintain a local archive of this
             | content?
             | 
             | When I think of all the things that once existed and have
             | now vanished forever for all sorts of reasons it is very
             | appealing to imagine having a local archive.
        
       | verdverm wrote:
       | Handshake has been co-opted by the same person who took over
       | Freenode. That handshake has become toxic should come at no
       | surprise.
       | 
       | I feel for this dev, I had a similarly unpleasant experience with
       | the Aragon team and decided the community was not for me.
        
         | publiush wrote:
         | If we're talking about the same person, he was the only one who
         | actually encouraged what I was doing and even gave me the idea
         | for Zooko.
         | 
         | However, the admins on their discord, were less than
         | encouraging.
        
       | roughly wrote:
       | People keep using immutable like it's a good thing. Any of y'all
       | who still want to fully stand by the things you said, did, and
       | thought 20 years ago might need to reflect a bit.
        
       | akvadrako wrote:
       | I think this is the most interesting part:
       | 
       | https://github.com/publiusfederalist/why-i-quit-handshake
        
         | publiush wrote:
         | I've decided to begin my own community. Those toxic admins
         | can't control the blockchain.
        
           | NetOpWibby wrote:
           | Huh?! No one controls the blockchain.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | So you pay to post, otherwise who will pay miners to post blocks?
       | That will surely disincentivize too much posting and solve
       | inherent scalability issues. This service is a no go.
        
       | benpiper wrote:
       | This already exists. It's called Usenet.
        
       | codespin wrote:
       | I'm excited to try this out, I was toying with the idea of
       | creating something similar.
       | 
       | I see a strong need for a microblogging framework where users
       | have control of their data. Mastadon is great, but I think Zooko
       | goes farther in the right direction.
        
         | roywiggins wrote:
         | This seems like a different definition of "control"- sure, your
         | posts can't be deleted by anyone else, but they can't be
         | deleted or edited by _you_. They are preserved and public
         | _forever_.
         | 
         | I'm not sure that's what people think of when they think of
         | having control of their data?
        
           | dannyw wrote:
           | Yes, like it or not that's practically how the internet
           | works.
           | 
           | You don't believe Facebook actually deletes your messages, do
           | you?
        
             | roywiggins wrote:
             | Right. But that's what I mean by this thing not giving you
             | "control over your data."
             | 
             | If I post something on Facebook and regret it, I have
             | _some_ control over it- sure, I can 't delete it off
             | Facebook's internal tape archives, but that's really going
             | to be one of a handful of places it will stick around after
             | I delete it.
             | 
             | If I embed something in plaintext on a blockchain it will
             | be public, to everyone, forever. This seems like having
             | _less control_ , or at least no _more_ control.
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | Seems analogous to the discussion of which licensing type
           | gives the developer more freedom: GPL or BSD. The answer
           | depends on how you define freedom.
        
       | dqpb wrote:
       | > These children remind of me of Lord of the Flies.
       | 
       | I think most people in blockchain Discord "servers" are actually
       | children. There are no other forums that I go to, where I get the
       | same palpable feeling that I'm talking to teenagers. It's odd.
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | possibly adults who have not matured intellectually beyond teen
         | levels.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | A lot of dopey young people who have medium-sized
         | inheritances/trust funds that they're gambling with in the hope
         | that they'll never have to work, mixed with overpaid tech
         | workers fresh out of college hoping to buy Bay Area homes.
        
       | vannevar wrote:
       | Anyone interested in this field should also check out Freenet, a
       | distributed, encrypted and censor-resistant platform that's been
       | around for 20 years.
       | 
       | https://freenetproject.org/
        
       | acdha wrote:
       | This is "uncensorable" in the same way that "sovereign citizens"
       | are immune from prosecution. Once someone uses it for something
       | which is actually illegal, they'll learn how useful blockchains
       | are for prosecutors.
       | 
       | The underlying mistake is thinking about this like a game where
       | you can make up rules for the government to follow. What actually
       | happens is one of two paths:
       | 
       | 1. You're outside their jurisdiction, so anything will work
       | because your local police don't care. Maybe you have to avoid
       | traveling to certain places or doing business with certain
       | companies but you can almost certainly live a full life with
       | minimal impact unless you're doing something like leaking the
       | secrets of a drug cartel or Russian oligarch.
       | 
       | 2. You're subject to their authority, which gives them a rich
       | suite of tools ranging from arresting you, having ISPs filter DNS
       | or network connections, launching denial of service attacks on
       | your infrastructure, etc. How much effort they'll expend depends
       | on exactly what you're doing and how authoritarian the government
       | is, not the technology.
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > The underlying mistake is thinking about this like a game
         | where you can make up rules for the government to follow.
         | 
         | Thanks for describing that error so clearly and succinctly.
         | It's one of those fundamental misconceptions that's
         | depressingly common.
         | 
         | Don't assume you've defeated the them because they haven't
         | cared enough to come after you.
        
         | alangibson wrote:
         | > where you can make up rules for the government to follow
         | 
         | Exactly. It always reminds me of that scene in the Simpsons
         | where Burns goes through tons of security in the nuclear plant,
         | then a dog walks in through a screen door.
        
         | friendlydog wrote:
         | Let's say you use something like a striped raid on different
         | nodes.
         | 
         | Node A contains the odd bytes for something copyrighted like
         | "the love guru" those bytes by themselves aren't the
         | copyrighted content and no one claims rights to them.
         | 
         | Node B has has the even ones.
         | 
         | Downloading either doesn't yield the copyrighted file, but on a
         | person's own machine if they combine them it does.
         | 
         | Still illegal?
        
           | hash872 wrote:
           | Let's say instead of 'copyrighted file' it's CSAM material
           | instead. Is it 'illegal'? Maybe you can convince a judge
           | otherwise.... after your home has been raided, you've already
           | done at least some time in jail where all the inmates know
           | you've been arrested for CSAM, your friends & family know
           | you've been arrested for that, that's what comes up under a
           | Google search for your name for all time, thus making you
           | unemployable.....
           | 
           | Yes, after spending $500k-1 million on a defense attorney,
           | it's possible that you could convince a judge that that
           | content isn't 'illegal', sure. (How many judges- average age
           | over 60- can learn what a 'striped raid' is?) But none of
           | those other consequences can be reversed, even if you 'win'
           | at trial
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | Yes. What happens is that the FBI uses the system to download
           | the illicit content and every IP they connect to gets a
           | letter to their ISP demanding that they identify the
           | customer.
           | 
           | When they show up at your door, you get to hope they believe
           | you saying that you had no idea your system was hosting that
           | content and/or that you never had the decryption key. If you
           | say anything which a judge/jury believes untrue, that's a
           | federal crime in its own right.
           | 
           | Better hope that you don't need any of the hardware they
           | seized as evidence (possibly for years - see Steve Jackson
           | Games), and that your employer doesn't hear the news and sack
           | you.
        
           | mmastrac wrote:
           | Yes. The law isn't naive and seeing content A appear when
           | using innocent content B as a key is beyond a reasonable
           | doubt.
        
           | edoceo wrote:
           | Having copyrighted works isn't the inherently illegal part.
           | It's the act of obtaining them outside the licensed methods
           | and then holding them. At that point, according to some, is
           | when it becomes theft.
           | 
           | Hosts with unknown blobs of bytes can, and have, been taken
           | to task by various authorities.
           | 
           | Maybe it's grey-area but looks more towards the illegal side
           | to me.
           | 
           | Not a lawyer.
        
         | dd444fgdfg wrote:
         | is that true though? CP on Etherium blockchain is a well known
         | problem, and no prosecution jurisdiction is doing anything
         | about it. Who would even have jurisdiction on something so
         | decentralised? Sure you could shut down some nodes, but not all
         | of them. And even then new nodes would pop up vastly more
         | quickly than you can kill them. So prosecutors really are
         | powerless. I think. Am I wrong?
        
           | alkonaut wrote:
           | Could the reasoning behind that not simply be that there is
           | only finite resources to use so you want to target where you
           | get the most effect for the least resource and "CP on
           | blockchains" ends up way down in that priority list?
        
           | tablespoon wrote:
           | > So prosecutors really are powerless. I think. Am I wrong?
           | 
           | Yes, you're wrong.
           | 
           | > Sure you could shut down some nodes, but not all of them.
           | And even then new nodes would pop up vastly more quickly than
           | you can kill them.
           | 
           | Your error is here. If prosecutors actually decide to start
           | shutting down nodes because of CP and make successful
           | prosecutions, it will deter people from running new nodes in
           | that jurisdiction. If hosting a copy of the Etherium
           | blockchain had a high chance of landing you in jail for CP
           | possession, would _you_ start up a new node to replace one
           | that was shut down? Instead of  "new nodes ... pop[ping] up
           | vastly more quickly than you can kill them," most operators
           | would get scared and quickly shut down their nodes and wipe
           | their HDs, and the rest would get prosecuted. Maybe you'd
           | have a few stragglers hiding out on Tor, but at that point
           | the network is unusable for any legitimate use.
           | 
           | Don't believe me? There's even been a recent example of
           | something like that. China banned Bitcoin mining, and the
           | miners there shut down or GTFO of China:
           | 
           | https://fortune.com/2021/11/17/china-bitcoin-mining-ban-
           | cryp...
           | 
           | > Available data shows that crypto mining no longer exists in
           | China and that China's crypto mining ban completely upended
           | the global Bitcoin mining industry. China went from
           | controlling up to two-thirds of all Bitcoin mining in the
           | world in April to not contributing to the industry at all as
           | of July 2021, according to data compiled by the University of
           | Cambridge's Centre for Alternative Finance. And anecdotal
           | evidence suggests that the vast majority of Chinese Bitcoin
           | miners relocated their operations to places like Kazakhstan,
           | the U.S., and Canada or simply sold off their equipment at
           | discounted prices and left the industry.
        
             | notch656a wrote:
             | Bitcoin survival isn't predicated on mass mining farms of
             | the sort that are easily shutdown in china and elsewhere.
             | Running nodes yields more revenue the higher proportion of
             | the hash rate you have. Making it illegal just makes it
             | that much more profitable to run nodes in difficult to shut
             | down ways, such as a cell phone powered by a solar array
             | running tor and a miner.
             | 
             | The market will provide.
        
             | soco wrote:
             | And I really hope that there wouldn't be that many with
             | such a vested interest in CP to fight against those
             | shutdowns.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | That's why I put it in terms of how much they care. I'd be
           | surprised if there is something on the Ethereum chain itself
           | because it'd cost a small fortune but if there was, the
           | authorities could easily require all companies to block
           | access to those records, filter network traffic for all but
           | the most determined users, etc. because it's a complex
           | always-on network system with a fair amount of volume.
           | 
           | The underlying problem here is discoverability. If I can find
           | your content, so can the police. If sharing it is personally
           | risky, most people won't and they feel who do won't for long.
           | Censorship has never relied on absolutely preventing anyone
           | from saying something prohibited -- it's always the potential
           | for retroactive consequences. This is why successful
           | movements have generally needed outside support, anonymous
           | communications (e.g. printed samizdat which is most risky if
           | they catch you when you're actually in possession of it), or
           | some kind of social network which is hard to infiltrate
           | (family, religion, etc.).
        
         | roywiggins wrote:
         | The readme does explain that you could censor it by blocking
         | access the chain entirely, it's not pretending otherwise.
         | 
         | But by embedding the information into the chain, if you are
         | just reading posts I don't know how snoops could notice. You
         | just need to run a node that keeps up with the state of the
         | chain; there's no obvious way for network snoops to know
         | whether you're doing that because you are using Handshake to
         | resolve domain names or to read messages embedded in it, since
         | you can do all that offline.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | Okay, so now you've downloaded the entire chain. Does that
           | seem safe to have in your possession in this scenario? Even
           | if I have the storage, I would not want to find out that
           | someone else had uploaded something illegal when the police
           | search my computer/phone and I have to prove to their
           | satisfaction that I didn't know.
           | 
           | If you don't download the entire chain, your traffic
           | connecting to certain nodes and downloading certain sizes can
           | be enough to track you - there are academic papers about
           | using this to figure out what movies you're watching over
           | HTTPS - and that's assuming that you don't learn the hard way
           | that the fast server with all of the underground content is
           | the secret police's honeypot.
           | 
           | This is all probably moot in any case because it's tricky to
           | build something like this which never does DNS resolution,
           | connects to a suspicious server, etc. The average user is
           | going to have a very hard time avoiding mistakes like that,
           | and that's assuming you don't have police informants
           | encouraging unsafe opsec or use of treacherous apps -- real
           | things which happen to dissidents and activists all over the
           | world. Remember Citizen Lab's report on the use of NSO's
           | malware to go after supporters of a _soda tax_?
           | 
           | What bothers me most about cryptocurrency proponents are that
           | most of the claims are being made by people who will not
           | personally suffer the consequences of being wrong if someone
           | follows their advice. If you care about people in dangerous
           | legal environments, that really needs to focus on changing
           | the system rather than advocating use of electronic systems
           | which even experts cannot use safely in those environments.
        
           | phoe-krk wrote:
           | As long as there is illegal content on the blockchain, they
           | can simply state that you are hosting a node connected to a
           | network that downloads and shares illegal content, which will
           | be true, and therefore that you possess it, which will also
           | be true. And that can be enough to get you prosecuted
           | regardless of how many crypto bros are going to try to
           | convince you, or them, otherwise.
        
             | roywiggins wrote:
             | Well, sure. They could make owning a computer illegal, or
             | whatever. Anything outside your skull is censorable. The
             | readme doesn't pretend that this works if you can't access
             | the Handshake chain.
        
             | dannyw wrote:
             | They being who, under what law?
             | 
             | It's widely known there's child porn on the bitcoin
             | blockchain, not familiar with any prosecutions that have
             | happened.
             | 
             | Pretending that the law trumps all technology is as naive
             | as pretending technology trumps all law. No extreme is
             | true: you can build technological problems to solve many
             | social or political problems (example: VeraCrypt with
             | plausible denialability)
        
               | jasode wrote:
               | _> It's widely known there's child porn on the bitcoin
               | blockchain, _
               | 
               | Are there _actual bytes_ of child porn embedded in
               | Bitcoin blockchain or only encrypted-or-obfuscated urls
               | of possible websites that lead to child porn?
               | 
               | Example story from 2018 saying child porn bytes are not
               | in the blockchain and non-tech journalists are
               | misreporting it: https://news.bitcoin.com/no-isnt-child-
               | porn-bitcoin-blockcha...
               | 
               | Any credible embedding of child porn bytes in the
               | blockchain since that story?
        
             | ALittleLight wrote:
             | So, if some bad actor embedded child sexual abuse material
             | in the blockchain it would become illegal to run a Bitcoin
             | node?
             | 
             | Seems like somebody could short Bitcoin or eth, do that,
             | make it pubic, cause a furor, and profit despite the cost.
        
       | nonameiguess wrote:
       | Since it isn't really clear, Handshake protocol is an attempt to
       | create an alternative DNS without authoritative root name
       | servers, where instead users auction names priced in Handshake
       | coins, the initial bulk of which were gifted to various FOSS
       | developers and organizations to try and keep rich people from
       | hoarding everything. Instead of querying root servers for TLDs,
       | you query a blockchain to get the records.
       | 
       | This guy figured out you can stuff Tweets into DNS TXT records,
       | and chose to do it on Handshake DNS instead of regular DNS, since
       | this one is on a blockchain, which I guess means even when a name
       | record is sold to someone else and the current record is changed,
       | the old record is still there in the blockchain history, so you
       | can now never delete or edit a Tweet.
        
       | webmaven wrote:
       | Naming this after Zooko is a nice hat tip. I remember back when
       | he was interleaving his last names to form O'Whielacronx.
        
       | flubflub wrote:
       | How much does this cost to use yourself as it is on a blockchain?
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Maybe all these projects that have typical Discord chats talking
       | about blockchains, DAOs, NFTs, etc are full of kids given that
       | some users can get easily upset and hate your pet project and
       | they don't give any reasons other than character attacks. I
       | always see this when someone attaches their own identity to a
       | technology or project that once someone criticises the project
       | (but not you directly) they feel _' personally attacked'_.
       | 
       | Unfortunately they gave reasons and that is somehow toxic? At the
       | end of the day, if you cannot prove them wrong with a counter
       | argument, then it is difficult to side with the merits of this
       | project. I don't see any character attacks on the user from the
       | project devs.
       | 
       | In fact it is the other way round, and by quitting they seem to
       | have 'won'.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | I guess this is addressed to whoever lives in the crypto bubble.
       | I don't understand what a handshake is, why it passes dns records
       | and if it can be used to publish twitter like messages who is
       | going to read them and how.
       | 
       | Also from the little i know about this current fad:
       | 
       | If you're attaching your tweets to a blockchain and 5 million
       | users do that a couple times daily, how long till said blockchain
       | becomes unmanageably large? Do they plan to truncate it so older
       | tweets are lost?
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | Handshake is a blockchain based alternative for ICANN. DNS
         | resolvers still work the same, and HNS could play nice with
         | ICANN, but largely seem to want to replace it rather than be
         | peers with it.
         | 
         | The general idea is that you can do some pretty interesting
         | things with DNS records beyond domain name lookup and
         | verification.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | I could attach TXT records to my own domain and publish
           | "tweets" like that couldn't I?
        
             | verdverm wrote:
             | Yes, but as the author points out, these can be blocked.
             | 
             | Typically one sets up their handshake node with a DNS
             | resolver to serve records, so in theory, if everyone used
             | handshake node ups for DNS, this could be uncensorable
        
             | sowbug wrote:
             | That's roughly how people used to use Unix .plan files,
             | with finger being a convenient way to check out what
             | someone else was up to.
             | 
             | Which reminds me of a story. At Google in the mid-2000s, we
             | used a corporate version of Google Chat, embedded in Gmail,
             | much as it is today. One key difference in the UI was that
             | your status appeared as text right below your name in other
             | people's contact lists. Your status could be active, idle,
             | away, or any freeform text that you set it to. The status
             | lines in the contacts list updated in real time (ordinary
             | today but remarkable back then). So people figured out that
             | they could have an odd kind of one-to-many chat
             | conversation by frequently updating their statuses. Not
             | everyone was in everyone else's contacts list, so it was
             | actually one-to-who-knows-how-many. And people used it
             | accordingly, as if they were shouting stuff in a large room
             | -- "does anyone know what's for lunch today?" "I heard it's
             | lasagna" "beef or vegetarian?" etc.
             | 
             | Anyway, Evan Williams worked at Google back then, and I
             | assume he saw these ephemeral messages flickering across
             | his screen, same as I did. I wonder whether that planted
             | the seed for Twitter.
        
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