[HN Gopher] Autofocus on a Pi - ArduCam's new 16MP camera
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       Autofocus on a Pi - ArduCam's new 16MP camera
        
       Author : geerlingguy
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2022-01-12 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
        
       | canbus wrote:
       | Quite easy to read the MCU text with the autofocus camera, with
       | the others not so much.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | One of the few times a resolution increase _does_ dramatically
         | increase the clarity--probably due to the camera module also
         | having a much nicer lens to match the higher-resolution sensor.
         | 
         | It also helps that the sensor is slightly larger (though still
         | a bit smaller than the one on the HQ camera.
        
           | canbus wrote:
           | I think that opens up a discussion about sensor size not
           | being the biggest factor in image quality and whether it's
           | worth it or not in practical terms to have a large sensor.
           | Personally I have found that my full-frame DSLR gets a lot
           | less use than my phone with a sensor size that is a fraction
           | of the DSLRs! Yes, artsy bokeh shots/low light photos
           | (although this is subjective due to recent developments with
           | smartphones) are easier to take with a larger sensor, but I
           | almost feel like they're going obselete now at least for
           | every-day use.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | I still use my old Nikon D700 for some things, like as a
             | timelapse camera or for simple product shots.
             | 
             | The 12 megapixel sensor in the 35mm format is still much
             | better at gathering light (without any fancy AI
             | manipulation) than any modern small sensor camera, and the
             | few Nikon lenses I still have around--one manufactured in
             | the 70s--are extremely sharp and still great for many
             | situations (though lens coatings, even on tiny sensors and
             | smartphones, are vastly improved nowadays).
        
               | canbus wrote:
               | I agree - I have a D600 myself and still use mine
               | occasionally, Nikon's backwards compatibility is great! I
               | am equally impressed by the AI manipulation by modern
               | smartphones and their ability to take handheld shots that
               | say a 10 year old APSC camera (with a huge sensor
               | comparitively) might produce a blurry mess with. That
               | being said I don't really know what modern APSC cameras
               | can do nowadays!
        
             | KennyBlanken wrote:
             | Your phone camera's images look 'great' because they're
             | been very heavily processed (now with all sorts of "AI"
             | nonsense that is leading to us not being able to trust
             | photos from cell phones) and are taken with a wide angle,
             | small aperture lens that yields very wide depth of field.
             | 
             | Compare images side by side, especially at indoor lighting
             | levels, and you'll see just how much more detail even a 10
             | year old micro four thirds or digital SLR captures compared
             | to the cell phone camera. Capture some images around 6400
             | ISO, too, and you'll really see what a mess cell phone
             | cameras are.
             | 
             | There's no getting around physics - the larger the sensor
             | well, the more light it can collect and convert to
             | electrical impulses. Top end cameras from Canon, Nikon, and
             | Sony have been bumping up against the limits of physics for
             | a while now - efficiency, noise, etc.
             | 
             | My m4/3 camera which is now 10 years old still takes better
             | pictures than any current cell phone camera on the market.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | I've done some work on barcode scanning, so I've spent
               | quite a bit of time taking images of reference patterns
               | and comparing them in minute detail.
               | 
               | In my experience, the current iPhone SE produces _very
               | slightly_ more detail than a m4 /3 Lumix DMC-GX80. Which
               | is crazy, because the iPhone's lens and sensor are tiny
               | compared to the m4/3 camera.
        
             | arbitrage wrote:
             | There's an old photographer's adage, one my of my teachers
             | shared with me a long time ago. "The best camera is the one
             | you have on you."
        
             | foo_barrio wrote:
             | We still have some ways to go in low light. My room is lit
             | by 2 40W incandescent light bulbs. This is more light than
             | a typical urban sidewalk or restaurant at night. This is
             | low enough light that the difference in video quality of my
             | iphone 13 pro (2021) and nikon D750 (2014) full frame
             | camera is night and day.
             | 
             | However I agree that there are times now where I can
             | confidently use my phone where 10 years ago I would have
             | had a dedicated camera. Phones are only going to keep
             | getting better!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | throwaway81523 wrote:
       | This is great. I don't care at all about the 16 megapixels (to
       | misquote Bill Gates, 6.4 megapixels should be enough for anyone),
       | but AF and reasonable close focusing have been available in cheap
       | smart phones but missing from the Pi til now. There hasn't even
       | been a usable way to read a QR code with a Pi until now. The $25
       | price is great too.
       | 
       | The Pi foundation should have shipped something like this long
       | ago. Maybe they can work out something with Arducam to make it a
       | standard Pi product.
        
         | unnouinceput wrote:
         | You forget: "And also if the chain supply problems will make
         | them available enough".
         | 
         | Currently there is a shortage of RPi's, they take long to ship,
         | costs more and somehow also have a lower quality compared to
         | the older RPi's I have.
        
       | jokethrowaway wrote:
       | Nice!
       | 
       | In an ideal world getting a random android phone camera component
       | and getting the appropriate linux driver should be easy but I
       | guess not enough people are interested in doing that.
        
       | mips_avatar wrote:
       | I think this will unlock a lot of University robotics/computer
       | vision projects. The existing options for doing embedded computer
       | vision were pretty terrible.
        
         | forgotmyoldacc wrote:
         | I believe most modern smartphones have more powerful cameras
         | than ArduCam. They're more expensive, but broken / older
         | smartphones can be had for cheap.
        
           | NikolaeVarius wrote:
           | I highly doubt any smartphone cam worth a damn and actually
           | interface properly with the CSI bus lanes on a RasPi.
        
             | tadbit wrote:
             | I believe the grandparent is suggesting using a smartphone
             | in place of using a raspberry pi, not trying to extract the
             | camera and connect it to the pi.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | I;m not sure but I'd expect autofocus doesn't work well with
         | computer vision. Most of the lenses and sensors I've worked
         | with in raspi land have various image aberations (spherical,
         | color). They are very different from the computer vision
         | cameras I have.
        
       | geerlingguy wrote:
       | I also wanted to highlight a discussion about this camera from
       | two weeks ago, from user lemariva:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29727231 (has some other
       | interesting details).
        
       | johndough wrote:
       | Are there any affordable development platforms for those cameras
       | right now? Paying 100 EUR for a second hand Raspberry Pi and
       | another 25 EUR for the Camera seems like a bad idea when I could
       | get a USB GPIO adapter and a smartphone with a better camera and
       | touchscreen for less.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Raspberry Pis (at least Pi 4 model B) can be found new at list
         | price in a few places, but you have to be patient.
         | 
         | Of the 8 or so Pis I currently test on, the average time from
         | when I placed the order to when I got the Pi was about 3 months
         | (the CM4s I bought took about 8 months).
         | 
         | But I did get them all at list price, plus a small shipping
         | fee.
        
           | maicro wrote:
           | Do you have any specific links of suppliers you recommend
           | checking? All of my common ones, including my local
           | MicroCenter, are almost perpetually out...
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | PiHut, Micro Center, and Pishop.us are the three I most
             | often go to.
             | 
             | Micro Center always had some model in stock until last
             | September, now they only seem to have Pi 400s available.
        
               | maicro wrote:
               | Thanks - I've been keeping track of Pishop and Micro
               | Center (always forget the space...), forgot about PiHut
               | as I usually don't need to check stores for other
               | countries (though they've got Pi Zero 2 boards in stock,
               | so may be placing an order...).
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | I bought mine from Vilros. Got it in a couple of days. No
             | drama or delays. I didn't even realize people were waiting
             | so long to get them.
        
         | boromi wrote:
         | What does a usb gpio adapter do with a smartphone?
        
       | danbr wrote:
       | Always wondered why you upload yt videos in the morning (in US).
       | From my limited experience it appears the "algorithm" seems to
       | favor videos released in the (early) evenings.
       | 
       | There are probably some stats out there on release
       | time/viewership, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is an
       | optimal release time ("its 5'oclock somewhere...")
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Every channel's a little different--I might get more initial
         | views if released later in the day, but it seems like YouTube's
         | algorithm is biased more towards how the clickthrough rate and
         | watch percentage go, then it gives another pass at a new
         | audience on day two and sees if it changes--if it does, you can
         | get a significant boost on the 2nd day (or I've seen up to a
         | few days later, for a good video).
         | 
         | The basic answer is more, "it's complicated"--but for me it's
         | more convenient to release in the morning so I can check in on
         | comments early on (sometimes I get some new ideas or re-test
         | based on early comments for things I missed!).
        
       | actually_a_dog wrote:
       | While it _is_ non-intuitive that the camera doesn 't focus on a
       | center point, the good news here is that it should be possible to
       | control the AF motor in a more fine grained manner. I'm guessing
       | it would take some firmware hacking, but I don't see any
       | technical reason why it wouldn't work.
        
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       (page generated 2022-01-12 23:01 UTC)