[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Do you have to use LinkedIn to get hired?
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       Ask HN: Do you have to use LinkedIn to get hired?
        
       I'm seeing a lot of "submit your application" web forms with a
       required linked-in field. Would it be absolute folly to attempt to
       get hired without using linked-in? What are your experiences?
        
       Author : c64d81744074dfa
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2022-01-12 13:58 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | Pro tip: never ever ever _ever_ put your phone number in your
       | resume or on a jobs site. If you _have_ to put a number, get a
       | google voice number and don 't forward calls.
       | 
       | I have 753 voicemails from recruiters. And I'm not in demand. (I
       | have 5x as many e-mails from recruiters, so I also recommend not
       | putting your personal e-mail in your resume)
        
       | franze wrote:
       | Participated in a lot of hiring at a hyper growth startup in
       | London.
       | 
       | The recruiters get your CV, go to your linkedin. See if it
       | matches good enough. Look throug your linked to see if there is
       | something they can use (they are human resource after all) and
       | then maybe push you one up in the hiring pipeline process. Next
       | step is reading / skimming the other stuff you sent over.
       | 
       | Without linkedin you and they have more work in the first step,
       | so even though I hate linkedin with a passion and use its stream
       | mostly as an art project, for jobsearches you should use it.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | Very useful. Right now I am getting about 10 messages a day from
       | recruiters, but maybe 1/25 of them are worth a second look. They
       | are either geographically not ideal, things I don't want to do,
       | or things I don't really have experience with (and my LinkedIn
       | profile doesn't even mention)
       | 
       | It's more useful for applying directly to companies. I was
       | getting jobs from Indeed but it seems like 3 of the last 4 were
       | from LinkedIn.
        
       | alistairSH wrote:
       | I haven't run into a required LinkedIn field before.
       | 
       | But, I have used LinkedIn to apply, as many employers have a
       | direct application system through LinkedIn (approx. 1-click
       | application if your profile is up-to-date). Success rate getting
       | interviews this way was good given the low effort to apply.
        
       | oneplane wrote:
       | It depends.
       | 
       | I don't, not with what I want and where I want to work. But
       | others might want different things and work at different places
       | and if those places expect LinkedIn profiles they might think
       | it's suspicious if you don't have one. I'd personally not want to
       | work at such a place but that's not a position everyone else can
       | have or has.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | LinkedIn is used near universally for sourcing.
        
       | gregdoesit wrote:
       | Former engineering manager here. LinkedIn is useful to get
       | "sourced" for jobs. Sourcing refers to recruiters proactively
       | searching for qualified candidates for a given job.
       | 
       | The first place recruiters go to source for positions -
       | especially for those that are harder to fill - is LinkedIn.
       | 
       | So no: you absolutely don't need to have LinkedIn to get hired if
       | you apply directly. LinkedIn makes it easier for companies to
       | find and contact you.
       | 
       | Anecdotally, my last three jobs in my career have come from
       | LinkedIn outreaches (Skype, Skyscanner, Uber). These were
       | opportunities I would have not come across, as I was not actively
       | looking, but they found me at the right moment. Before I always
       | applied directly.
        
         | zffr wrote:
         | The flip side of this is that LinkedIn can sometimes bring you
         | lots of unwanted messages from recruiters offering worse jobs
         | that also pay less than what you currently make
        
           | josteink wrote:
           | Sure. But you're not obliged to respond or take on the offer.
        
         | summertime42 wrote:
         | Thank you for putting a verb to that! I didn't know the correct
         | term, but I got a sense that recruiters are always 'looking'
         | for people.
        
         | ineptech wrote:
         | Ditto. I work for a big company with several FT recruiters, and
         | AFAICT the _only_ thing they do to look for new candidates is
         | spam people on linkedin.
        
       | ranuzz wrote:
       | From my own experience, Linkedin is currently the best place to
       | get your profile discovered by a potential employer. There are
       | others too like triplebyte, workatastartup, etc. but linkedin is
       | the biggest.
       | 
       | If you are seeking a job then you are better off contacting and
       | reaching out yourself. But even in this case having a linkedin
       | profile, lots of connections and references help potential
       | employers screen you later in the process.
        
         | dookahku wrote:
         | I think the problem is not discovery but the problem is that
         | only garbage comes from LinkedIn. I've never gotten a job that
         | was worthwhile from LinkedIn.
        
       | cushychicken wrote:
       | Nope. Plenty of people are still using job sites hosted
       | internally, or API based services like Greenhouse or Lever.
       | 
       | Source: me, I run an aggregator of niche EE jobs at
       | www.rtljobs.com.
        
       | jimhi wrote:
       | The submit your application is supposed to make it easier. One
       | click instead of filling out all the information yourself. Most
       | forms I saw had the option to just manually put it in too
        
       | granitepail wrote:
       | I haven't updated my LinkedIn in around five years. Definitely
       | not a requirement. I do keep an up-to-date CV and just pass that
       | along. Could always try putting n/a in the field and writing a
       | note, or finding a hiring manager or someone in HR to mail
       | directly.
       | 
       | From the hiring side--I've done quite a bit--I never thought
       | twice about whether someone had a LinkedIn or CV. I do think it's
       | lazy not to provide anything on one's background, though. It
       | helps me guide the conversation towards a candidate's strengths.
        
       | throwaway81523 wrote:
       | I've never had a linkedin account and refuse to due to all their
       | spamming etc. I guess I have gotten comments about that, and
       | there is no way to know if I missed out on any job possibilities
       | from it. But I've always been able to find something without it.
        
       | reidjs wrote:
       | It would be a red flag for me if they are younger/early career,
       | but if you are older and have a good resume and/or portfolio
       | website I wouldn't care.
        
         | raldi wrote:
         | It would be a red flag for me if a potential employer
         | distrusted candidates without LinkedIn accounts.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | Out of curiosity, why would it be a red flag? All it indicates
         | that the applicant doesn't use LinkedIn.
        
           | ryanmercer wrote:
           | Not the person you are replying to, but one of the first
           | classes on my "let's get a bachelors starting at 36 years
           | old" required us to create a LinkedIn profile as an
           | assignment if we didn't already have one. I think they've
           | just become a de facto thing that is expected.
        
             | GoodbyeMrChips wrote:
             | > I think they've just become a de facto thing that is
             | expected.
             | 
             | Good god! Where in the world are you?
             | 
             | Here in Blightty, it wasn't that long ago having a linkedin
             | account would count _against_ some of our candidates.... as
             | a candidate must have had their head in the sand not to be
             | aware of the toxic behaviour of linkedin (spamming personal
             | contacts) [1].
             | 
             | [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/oct/07/link
             | edin-...
        
               | ryanmercer wrote:
               | The United States, this was at a private 4-year
               | university. I've seen gobs of job postings on company
               | websites that, on the application section, ask for your
               | LinkedIn profile link as well and my current employer is
               | a very active user as are virtually all of the c-level
               | employees.
        
           | moritonal wrote:
           | It's just... odd. It's a signal that the candidate has some
           | reason for not wanting a LinkedIn account, which could range
           | from a messy history to a passionate belief in not having an
           | online record. All of which _might_ translate to a difficult
           | candidate who isn't prepared to make it easier for the
           | employer.
           | 
           | As ever with these kind of eccentricities, if the candidate
           | is good enough they can pull it off, but otherwise it's a
           | orange flag.
        
             | gausswho wrote:
             | Agreed that there's a signal among those who decline to
             | dump their work history publicly into the hands of the
             | largest company in the world and its recruiter flock in
             | exchange for maybe job leads. It is eccentric,
             | unfortunately.
             | 
             | But reading that signal partially will filter out
             | improperly. Aside from privacy, candidates who value their
             | time don't want to be disturbed unless they have initiated.
             | 
             | Someone whose LI profile doesn't exist (or has just 'go to
             | my site') is more experienced at the game.
        
             | raldi wrote:
             | All the best people I've ever worked with were odd.
        
               | routeerror39 wrote:
               | So true.
        
             | bennyp101 wrote:
             | Why would I /want/ a LinkedIn account?
             | 
             | Sorry, if someone is hiring based on whether I have a
             | cricle-jerk social media account, then I don't want to work
             | there.
             | 
             | I genuinely don't understand why you would think it's odd?
        
           | francisofascii wrote:
           | It could signal that this person goes against the grain,
           | maybe has a disagreeable personality, too cool to join the
           | herd, might put up a fight about being asked to do other
           | things. Some of these qualities can be very valuable, but
           | most hiring managers don't know how to leverage these
           | qualities. Tech people might be impressed, but hiring
           | managers who live their lives in LinkedIn could be put off.
           | Imagine trying to get a job as a recruiter without a LinkedIn
           | profile. That would be impressive.
        
           | Rastonbury wrote:
           | A fine example of how hiring and assessing candidates can
           | really be arbitrary
        
       | luhego wrote:
       | It helps. I got my current job through LinkedIn. Also recently, I
       | started to get contacted by recruiters from Meta, Microsoft
       | through LinkedIn. Most of the offers you will get won't be
       | interesting but overall I think it is worth it.
        
       | hackernews777 wrote:
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | Not necessarily. Those truly in the top 1-5% of their fields will
       | likely have the pick-of-the-litter when it comes to jobs because
       | of word-of-mouth.
       | 
       | Anecdote alert: I joined a small firm in Hamburg, Germany after
       | leaving another startup in the same location. When the new team I
       | had joined was talking about how the company was looking to
       | launch a new product and was in desperate need of a ReactJS dev I
       | showed them something an old friend from the previous job had
       | done and they wanted to offer him the job without even
       | interviewing! The interview that did occur was more or less a
       | formality -- assessing cultural fit and such. He was hired and is
       | happy; I've since moved on but that experience never left me. I
       | kid you not he is one the best ReactJS devs I've ever seen (not
       | that I am in the ecosystem but the things he has built and his
       | knowledge of CSS and JS etc -- he could just a lot done very
       | quickly).
        
       | vinner_roy wrote:
       | I've gotten a dozen interviews recently without a LinkedIn.
        
       | freygibbs wrote:
       | LinkedIn is a great way to build connections and have people.
       | People send me private messages asking if I'm interested in their
       | job position. Thus, If I have time to accept those proposals, I
       | might find myself being hired through LinkedIn.
        
       | dpeck wrote:
       | I understand the desire to not use LinkedIn, but for those of you
       | not using who are either interested in being hire or in doing
       | hiring, what's the alternative?
       | 
       | From what I've seen everything else is fairly similar, just
       | smaller scale.
       | 
       | I prefer to work with people who I've worked with before, and
       | come in via referrals and to hire the same way, but sometimes
       | your pool of contacts isn't big enough to do that exclusively.
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | We post our jobs on job boards like stackoverflow. People find
         | our jobs there (or on our corporate job board site) and then
         | apply. We review their resumes, select a few for phone
         | interviews, select 2-4 for in-person or zoom interviews, then
         | either offer the job or keep looking.
        
           | dpeck wrote:
           | Right, so you don't "source" people who aren't actively
           | looking.
           | 
           | That's a great approach, and by nature you're prefiltering
           | for those interested enough in the position to apply for it,
           | but I don't think it covers all the cases that people use
           | LinkedIn for when hiring/being hired.
        
       | megatron4537 wrote:
       | Yes the company and website is garbage but if you're seriously
       | trying to land a job at big tech companies you need to get on
       | there, post a picture of you and add your friends/co-workers,
       | etc.
       | 
       | Applying through LinkedIn is easy. HR loves LinkedIn. It makes
       | your Resume stand out if you can back it up with a decent
       | profile.
        
       | ccvannorman wrote:
       | I actually get a significant amount of "hiring" inquiries for my
       | developer talents via my friends group and various dev groups I'm
       | on in Facebook.
       | 
       | LinkedIn is just one place .. it's a good place, but certainly
       | not the only one.
       | 
       | Responding to HN Who's Hiring or posting on HN's Who Wants To Get
       | Hired is a good source, too.
       | 
       | Finally, AngelList is a noteworthy lead source for me as well.
        
       | ianmf wrote:
       | I got hired via LinkedIn, but it wasn't necessary to have an
       | account to get the job. The position I got hired for had a job
       | announcement on the corporate website. LinkedIn was just another
       | source of job listings. LinkedIN was a great tool for discovering
       | positions, whereas without LinkedIn, I would have missed them.
       | 
       | There is the usual job opportunity spams, which for IT Security
       | is not bad. I have received several initial introduction from
       | recruiters from respected companies.
       | 
       | What I like about LinkedIn is that I can find out instantly if I
       | know someone who already works at the company I am interested in
       | applying. Being able to ask someone about the company's culture
       | can help you make the decision if you want to accept employment
       | or skip to the next one.
        
       | shultays wrote:
       | The answer probably depends on the company, I don't remember any
       | company requiring linkedin in their application forms but even if
       | not, it wouldn't hurt to create and account and a rough profile.
       | It would only take like an hour
        
       | freedomben wrote:
       | You can definitely do it without Linked In, but Linked In can
       | really help. Everybody who interviews you is going to look for
       | your Linked In profile and it will be a little weird if you're
       | not on there.
       | 
       | Obviously this is just my anecdotal experience, but I've been on
       | all sides of hiring at many different companies, at several
       | startups and a couple of big corps too.
        
       | yuppie_scum wrote:
       | Absolutely not
        
       | picardo wrote:
       | It might be useful for sourcers and recruiters, but the
       | interviewers never look at your Linkedin profile.
        
         | lumost wrote:
         | I suspect that this is going to change soon. As an industry we
         | are now optimizing for the same set of functional interview
         | questions across all companies while ignoring past engineer
         | performance.
         | 
         | An interview is only one day with a candidate, and we're well
         | past the point where our functional questions are contrived to
         | the point of selecting for interview training rather than job
         | skills.
         | 
         | Consider that 8 years ago asking to reverse a singly linked
         | list in o(1) memory and o(n) time was the difficulty bar for
         | FB. These days you'd likely get asked to implement an optimal
         | multidimensional DP + dfs/bfs/bsearch.
        
           | vineyardmike wrote:
           | I'm surprised something like triplebyte isn't more popular...
           | 
           | Do one long test/on-site equivalent then everyone can just
           | share their trusted results. Its like the SATs for dev jobs.
        
       | halpert wrote:
       | I used LinkedIn to get a job. There was a company I wanted to
       | work for. I reached out to a recruiter at the company on LinkedIn
       | via DM. He set up some time to talk that day, and a formal
       | interview happened a week later. Couldn't have been easier.
        
       | barnbuilder wrote:
       | Obviously it is not a requirement but it's quite helpful, even if
       | LinkedIn is a dreadful web site in so many ways. I've gotten 3 of
       | my last 4 jobs as a result of LinkedIn inmails (including 1
       | MAMAA).
       | 
       | Applying for open jobs is always going to be a numbers game that
       | most candidates will lose. On the other hand there is no better
       | way that I know of to passively receive inquiries from companies.
       | Most of them are irrelevant or garbage but it only takes one good
       | one to be your next job.
        
       | jollofricepeas wrote:
       | I have my LI profile locked down and don't use it. I do have a
       | personal site with my portfolio of projects, talks, and links to
       | code I've written.
       | 
       | I haven't had any problems interviewing with any of your who's
       | who companies in the tech industry.
       | 
       | Best of luck.
        
       | belter wrote:
       | Dont forget about all their tricks over the years. We got post-
       | truth recently, but one day, post-ethics will catch up with SV
       | companies.
       | 
       | "LinkedIn is copying the contents of my clipboard on every
       | keystroke" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23716451
       | 
       | "LinkedIn accesses Gmail contacts via 'auto-authorization' "
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12769494
       | 
       | "Stop Using LinkedIn"
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9045677
       | 
       | "LinkedIn violated data protection by using 18M email addresses
       | of non-members " https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18525511
        
         | p49k wrote:
         | The first "trick" you linked to was a bug in a library that
         | they already open sourced before the issue was raised. Pretty
         | clear that it wasn't nefarious or intentional and shows they
         | didn't in fact copy the clipboard contents.
        
         | thevagrant wrote:
         | Wasn't LinkedIn the one who used to access people's emails to
         | farm contacts? They did it by testing the password signed up to
         | LinkedIn against common mail services (Hotmail). If the users
         | used the same password across both services then their email
         | got trawled.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | https://casetext.com/case/perkins-v-linkedin-corp-6
        
       | taubek wrote:
       | I got me current job thanks to LinkedIn. The recruiter found me,
       | sent me a message and I got the job:)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | nikanj wrote:
       | Going through the front door has always been a dismal experience.
       | That gets your CV in the big pile with 10000 other applicants.
        
       | dep_b wrote:
       | I landed my current job at one of the absolutely top paying
       | companies through LinkedIn. Meta contacted me a short while ago
       | and while I wouldn't want to work for them they did find me
       | through LinkedIn and it was a serious recruiter directly from
       | them not some third party shady stuff.
       | 
       | It's my #2 source of jobs after TopTal for the last 10 years and
       | comes before word of mouth. I don't think there are any other
       | sources though one guy hunted me down through a YouTube comment
       | which I thought was pretty cool.
        
         | abledon wrote:
         | can you give an overview of what type of jobs you find on
         | TopTal?
         | 
         | e.g.... is it 'migrate our huge legacy databse to Oracle
         | Version X' or, our PhP wordpress site needs a css banner that
         | shows a clock counting down?
         | 
         | Do they pay only if the contract is met or do they pay hourly
         | then fire you if they don't like the results delivered at each
         | sprint?
        
           | dep_b wrote:
           | Anything. Legacy to green fields but loads of green fields
           | for me. A lot of startups but also a few well-known names. I
           | did mobile.
           | 
           | After a one week trial you either get hired and paid 100% or
           | rejected and paid 50%. Unless you totally fucked up. The
           | client never pays anything but sometimes they try to abuse
           | it. But >90% good.
           | 
           | Paid every two weeks like clockwork.
        
       | dghlsakjg wrote:
       | You don't have to, but it doesn't hurt. They actually have a
       | pretty good jobs platform built in.
       | 
       | The advice I got when I started in tech 5 years ago was: you
       | don't have to like using linked-in, but you should use it.
        
       | woodruffw wrote:
       | No. I have never used LinkedIn to apply for a job, and have
       | received multiple offers (and solicitations to interview) without
       | ever having one. But I've also never worked or applied at a place
       | that seemed to _expect_ me to have a LinkedIn.
       | 
       | In my experience, having a personal website has all of the
       | upsides of being on a "professional" social network with none of
       | the downsides.
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | We can't read the mind of your hiring manager, but most places
       | don't strictly require a LinkedIn.
       | 
       | However, it's so easy that you might as well just do it. You can
       | have it set up and filled out in 10 minutes and it's an easy link
       | for people to pass around when discussing you as a candidate.
        
         | mellavora wrote:
         | yes, but no, it isn't "just 10 minutes", you should give it the
         | care and attention you'd give to your cv or any other
         | professional presentation of yourself.
        
       | washadjeffmad wrote:
       | I've never been on LinkedIn or hired anyone because of it. I've
       | used it cursorily to contextualize the org chart of a company I'm
       | not familiar with.
        
       | surajs wrote:
        
       | habeebtc wrote:
       | I've gotten hired twice via a linkedin "Stumble Upon" type
       | process, but not used it to apply for a job (successfully,
       | anyways). I typically have done that with the recruiter or
       | company directly.
       | 
       | I don't switch jobs that often. My career has been at only 4
       | companies over 20 years so far.
       | 
       | I agree with other comments here, your LinkedIn profile is useful
       | for showing people what you're about and what you can do at a
       | high level. I know people who don't have linkedin because they
       | are in-person networkers. They go to conferences to build
       | relationships, and when they need a new job they work that social
       | network that they built into their "little black book" by hand.
        
       | AlchemistCamp wrote:
       | No. I quit LinkedIn quite a while back when they made my physical
       | location a hard requirement, and it's been a net plus. LI was
       | never a primary job hunting channel, though. Mostly, it's a
       | cesspool of spam.
       | 
       | In recent years though, I've had more inbound interest due to my
       | online presence, and haven't done any proactive job seeking
       | activities.
       | 
       | YMMV. If I were applying to Microsoft, for example, I'd probably
       | create a LI account.
        
       | not2b wrote:
       | I deleted my LinkedIn account some time ago because every contact
       | it generated was useless spam and people I have never heard of
       | asking to be in my "professional network". If I ever want to
       | move, I don't need LinkedIn; people in the relevant competing
       | companies to mine know who I am. People just starting out don't
       | have that luxury and may feel that they have to put up with it.
        
       | auntienomen wrote:
       | A funny fact: if you apply for a job at LinkedIn, they ask you to
       | upload a resume instead of autofilling with data they already
       | have. There are good reasons for this of course (e.g., public vs
       | private info), but does provoke some WTF the first time you see
       | it.
        
       | aynyc wrote:
       | I haven't had much luck in the last 10 years getting interviews
       | via company's own hiring site. All my interviews come from
       | recruiters (internal or external) pushing for me in the
       | companies.
        
       | lrvick wrote:
       | I get multiple invites to interview every week and I do not have
       | a LinkedIn. Just my self-hosted jsonresume site:
       | https://lance.dev
        
       | chriswarbo wrote:
       | I've never used LinkedIn; I find such business models unethical
       | (essentially: selling access to information that is provided
       | free-of-charge by users). Their subsequent spamming of phone
       | contacts, and aquisition by Microsoft has reenforced this
       | opinion.
       | 
       | I've never had a problem getting a development job, for the past
       | 11 years. I'm in the UK.
        
         | GoodbyeMrChips wrote:
         | I'll second this.
         | 
         | LinkedIn was toxic when it started..... sending spam to your
         | email contacts saying you had invited them to join. How the
         | fuck they gained _any_ respectability after this is beyond me.
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/oct/07/linkedin-...
        
       | Philip-J-Fry wrote:
       | I haven't used it to get a job yet. But I do use it to keep a
       | look out for future jobs, it's worth having. Every week I get a
       | couple of messages from recruiters and it's just nice to know
       | what the going rate is for different jobs and sometimes something
       | might catch your eye.
        
       | c64d81744074dfa wrote:
       | The wide range of answers to this has been really helpful. What
       | I'm getting out of it is this: If you're a linked-in refuser
       | (like I've been so far) then it limits you somewhat, filtering
       | out some potential employers, but possibly in a good way.
       | 
       | But you don't HAVE to use it. Good to know!
        
       | irrational wrote:
       | I hope not. I don't have a LinkedIn account and don't plan on
       | ever having one. I avoid social media as much as possible.
        
       | good8675309 wrote:
       | I've landed at least 2-3 major jobs through LinkedIn. My current
       | job and one in 2015 that moved me from making 5 figures at a
       | local company to making 6 figures contracting remotely with a
       | digital agency and it lasted 5 years. Also, part of this was
       | making connections in the open source community, and optimizing
       | my profiles, getting as many connections as possible. Taking on
       | any interview I could get even if I wasn't interested in the job,
       | just for the interview experience. I think there is a lot more to
       | it than just throwing up a fresh empty LinkedIn profile. You've
       | got to work hard to make it good and to make connections both on
       | and off LinkedIn. And make sure you work on your soft skills,
       | those have often won me jobs over more qualified candidates.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | numbsafari wrote:
       | No, except for companies that require you to submit your resume
       | with a required LinkedIn field. /eyeroll...
       | 
       | If that company is one that you really want to work for, perhaps
       | try finding an alternative way of applying. See if you know
       | anybody there and get them to submit your resume. Having an
       | internal referral is good for them, and probably helps your
       | chances vs. coming in via a web form.
       | 
       | If you are personally opposed to setting up a LinkedIn profile,
       | the fact that the firm requires one for submitting your resume,
       | probably indicates that they aren't a good match for you.
       | 
       | shameless plug: We don't require a LinkedIn profile, though you
       | can provide one... https://www.bainbridgehealth.com/careers
        
       | fancyfredbot wrote:
       | You can get hired without LinkedIn.
        
       | fragmede wrote:
       | No, but look at it this way. From a UX perspective, we're
       | familiar with reducing friction to get people to sign up for our
       | product, whatever it is. Even with some irelevent friction,
       | you'll get some sign-ups, but you'll get more with a more
       | optimized flow. Same for linked in. Is it _possible_? Yes, you
       | 'll get many answers saying they didn't. So you don't _have_ to,
       | but why make it hard for employees to hire you. Especially if you
       | 're at the start of your career.
        
       | fossuser wrote:
       | I've found internal referral to be the only reliable way to get
       | an interview at competitive companies. Generally I think the
       | below is true when it comes to getting interviews.
       | 
       | - Internal Referral (this is the best way)
       | 
       | - Twitter leading to internal referral
       | 
       | - Inbound recruiter leading to interview (only happens if you've
       | already succeeded at 1 or 2 previously).
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | - Have gone to famous school like MIT or Stanford.
       | 
       | There are a lot of ways to get an internal referral, but most
       | involve making friends with someone who already works at a place
       | or knows someone who does. You can do this by making friends on
       | twitter, HN, github projects etc. Moving to an area that has a
       | lot of the industry (SF Bay) if possible helps too, though with
       | remote work is less important now.
        
         | fatnoah wrote:
         | I think mileage may vary depending on location, role, and YOE.
         | I didn't go to a top/famous school, but I do have 20+ years of
         | experience, including Principal level IC and several years of
         | management experience as tech lead manager, manager of
         | managers, and executive (at a small startup, so not a huge org)
         | experience.
         | 
         | Of the six rounds of interview/job offers I've gone through
         | since 2016, 5 were the result of a recruiter finding me on.
         | LinkedIn. Caveat for one of those was that one of those was a
         | reachout from a big name tech company a couple years previous,
         | so I then reached directly out that recruiter. For another big
         | name tech company, I submitted my resume directly through their
         | online portal and got a call the next day.
         | 
         | My LinkedIn spam level is probably about 75%, which isn't
         | actually a terrible ratio. I consider spam to be something
         | that's clearly irrelevant to my role or far too junior. For the
         | spam, I ignore, and for the others I always reply with a polite
         | "thanks, but no thanks" which people generally respect and has
         | occasionally led to a more appropriate job link.
        
           | fossuser wrote:
           | Yeah I think you're right, I suppose I was thinking in the
           | context of early career or first job. I think you get more
           | attention if you have a lot of YOE.
        
       | s09dfhks wrote:
       | I deleted my linkedin in ~2016 and have been fine without it. All
       | it ever did was allow low effort recruiter spam for jobs I had
       | nothing to do with
        
       | james_impliu wrote:
       | As an employer, I find LinkedIn profiles faster (and thus nicer)
       | to screen (we're a company that doesn't ask for a set application
       | format) - since you don't have to adjust your brain to the
       | format! I'm less likely to miss stuff, but might skim faster
       | versus reading your story.
       | 
       | That said, if someone just sends me (I'm cofounder, post series B
       | startup) an email directly which is well thought out connecting
       | your skills with what we're working on, I will 100% read it /
       | consider it. This ticks a box that you're interested in what
       | we're working on - which we need to feel to hire you.
       | 
       | I do not now look at the vast majority of submissions, since the
       | vast majority of those are generic, so we have a full time
       | recruiter looking through.
        
       | kerneloftruth wrote:
       | You do not need LinkedIn. I closed my account there early last
       | year, and have never regretted it or feel that I miss out on
       | anything. Instead, needless distraction has been removed. I was
       | on LinkedIn for 12 years, and never once got a consulting gig
       | from it; rather, those all came from colleagues, Craigslist, and
       | DICE. I looked for new opportunities this past autumn, and found
       | _plenty_ without LinkedIn.
       | 
       | YMMV, and for me a key factor is that LI is heavily slanted to
       | full-time employment. For consultants, its value proposition
       | isn't so great.
       | 
       | Good luck!
        
       | heybecker wrote:
       | LinkedIn eliminates friction better than anything else in my
       | opinion. Applying to a job with a single click is brilliant. I
       | wouldn't bother with anything else unless I was targeting
       | something specific like climate, startups, etc.
        
       | kradeelav wrote:
       | I'm not a recruiter, but I am a (design) manager frequently on
       | interview panels.
       | 
       | LinkedIn is _useful_ for me behind looking at the design
       | portfolio (most important), and the resume. I 'll scan the
       | connections to see if we have a mutual friend, college, previous
       | job, etc as a topic to talk about in the interview, and it
       | frequently brings up a great discussion that might not have
       | happened otherwise. Definitely not required, though.
        
       | fshee wrote:
       | No. When I attempted to create a LinkedIn a few years ago they
       | flagged my account as spam and requested a photo ID. They will
       | not get one from me.
       | 
       | GitHub under Microsoft also flagged a new-ish work related GitHub
       | account as spam. They eventually reversed the suspension after
       | four/five months. Luckily my day-to-day work does not have GitHub
       | in the loop. On one occasion a co-worker did me a favor and
       | submitted a PR for me.
       | 
       | * In LinkedIn's case I used some Czech in my profile. Maybe that
       | made it seem suspicious.
       | 
       | * GitHub doesn't like when you delete a GitHub account, wait some
       | amount of time, then create another GitHub account with the same
       | email address.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I joined LinkedIn early on. When I was working as an individual
       | contributor I first thought it was super effective and I became a
       | "LiON" who tried to build as large and as open a network as I
       | possibly could.
       | 
       | At that time I got numerous jobs thanks to my LinkedIn profile.
       | On top of that I would tell anybody who was listening,
       | particularly anyone who was struggling in job searches, that they
       | should join LinkedIn too.
       | 
       | I went through a phase of business development for a new idea and
       | found that LinkedIn attracted an unlimited number of bullshitters
       | to the point that I was starting to become a bullshitter. I was
       | getting sick and tired of the spam email I was getting. I was
       | angry and resentful all the time and starting to feel guilty for
       | thinking horrible racist thoughts like "They should rename it to
       | linked.in", etc. It just seemed everybody was a "consultant"
       | named "Joe Blow" who had a company called "Joe Blow Incorporated"
       | or a personal trainer, life coach, etc.
       | 
       | Around the time Trump got elected I deleted most of my social
       | media accounts including my LinkedIn account.
       | 
       | Since then I did two job searches without LinkedIn. In one case I
       | went from "damn i really have to get a job" to having a job in a
       | month, in the other case it took a few months.
        
       | ohCh6zos wrote:
       | I think Linkdin is largely a productivity trap. There are whole
       | articles out there about how to optimize Linkdin, but I've never
       | glanced at it for the 100's of people I've hired over my career.
        
       | darepublic wrote:
       | As others have said, in the current climate at least if you have
       | a good linked in profile recruiters will proactively seek you
       | out. And I have indeed found work via these cold call recruiters.
       | But it's not strictly necessary at all.
        
       | pkrumins wrote:
       | You don't really need LinkedIn. The quickest way to get hired is
       | to create a technical blog, write a bunch of interesting
       | articles, create a couple of interesting projects, and make them
       | go viral. You'll get flooded with emails from headhunters. (This
       | is what I did.)
        
         | hackernews777 wrote:
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | This is sarcasm right?
         | 
         | > The quickest way to get hired is to create a technical blog,
         | write a bunch of interesting articles, create a couple of
         | interesting projects, and make them go viral.
         | 
         | Is obviously not quick. But tbh is a dream way to land a job.
        
       | summertime42 wrote:
       | Last 2 gigs were directly through LinkedIn, so to me, it's a huge
       | win. If a good recruiter/lead contacts me, I get their email and
       | add them to my 'rolodex' so I can contact them when I need a
       | future job.
       | 
       | However, 98% of it is total and complete garbage. Unfollow
       | everyone. Follow 2-5 people you actually care about. Ignore spam
       | messages - don't even get emotional about your time being wasted
       | - just delete it and move on.
        
       | cecilpl2 wrote:
       | My two most recent job changes have been via LinkedIn. My profile
       | is minimal (no photo, just a short blurb and a super-old
       | copy/paste of my resume).
       | 
       | The first was an ex-colleague recruiting me directly for a
       | position he was trying to fill. LinkedIn was just the easiest way
       | for him to find me since we were already connected there.
       | 
       | The other was random recruiter spam, to which I always respond
       | with my standard blurb - basically "Is this position fully remote
       | and what's the salary range?" They came back with a number 40%
       | higher than what I was making then, so I pursued it.
        
       | mathattack wrote:
       | Not mandatory but helpful, especially for mgmt roles. It's an
       | electronic business card, helpful for people who used to carry
       | cards.
        
       | wizzerking wrote:
       | I have been offered 2 contract positions without linked-in
       | profiles So my answer it is not necessary. I mostly use linked-in
       | to post articles of interest to me in the various groups as a way
       | to promote open source code repos from authors who publish their
       | software as well as their findings It is my hope that by posting
       | such articles/work I will encourage more authors to publish their
       | code so we can all grow together
        
       | danfromberlin wrote:
       | I usually just submit www.notlinked.in and it has worked fairly
       | well.
        
       | k3liutZu wrote:
       | I don't think it's required, but it can be a big help.
        
       | vineyardmike wrote:
       | You can totally get hired without linkedin. Where you will get
       | hired will depend a lot on who you are and your skills.
       | 
       | If you're a relatively junior IC, you may not have time to build
       | up an IRL professional network to help you get a job. You may not
       | have a crazy in-demand resume that jumps to the top of the list
       | for senior/staff jobs. This means you need to find jobs instead
       | of letting them come to you.
       | 
       | I've seen people say that reading linkedin is the ultimate resume
       | - standard format, easy to read and parse, and all look the same.
       | So if you're just doing resume drops on online web forms, missing
       | out on that tells the hiring person they have to do more work to
       | evaluate you. That could mean its "too much work" and they just
       | skip you. YMMV but its a risk you take.
       | 
       | I've heard a lot of different takes on recruiters from linkedin.
       | As a relatively mid-level engineer at FAANG, i get constant
       | recruiters messaging me (1 per week min). I found 50% to be not
       | worth my time ever, and the other 50% are recruiters for
       | big/reputable companies (eg. faang et al.) and some of them have
       | given me interviews/leads, - i've even taken a job that started
       | on linkedin via a recruiter cold message.
       | 
       | Personally, i understand why linkedin is annoying to use. It has
       | lots of antipatterns, etc. That said, part of getting hiring is
       | "playing the game" unless you're truly 1/1000000. By sitting out
       | linkedin (when doing resume-drop style applications), you're
       | signaling to the company hiring you that you either are too lazy
       | to update a profile once a year, or your morals against linkedin
       | are stronger than your desire to help them hire you. Its like
       | people who don't keep their resume < 1 page. They are either
       | truly incredible and it can't be fit on one page, or they just
       | don't know how to or refuse to do the simple things that are
       | expected of them.
       | 
       | TLDR: Unless you're special enough to make your own, or you have
       | a strong personal network already, following the status quo may
       | help you.
       | 
       | (also its LinkedIn not linked-in, skip the hyphen)
        
       | ftomassetti wrote:
       | Consider also that many companies promote job ads on LinkedIN or
       | search candidates on LinkedIN. So even without the "submit your
       | application" LinkedIN is pretty important to get hired, imho
        
       | not2b wrote:
       | For the original question, I'd just say to put 'n/a' or similar
       | in the LinkedIn field, or whatever gets you past that box but
       | indicates that you don't participate in LinkedIn. If that alone
       | causes your application to be rejected, you probably don't want
       | to go through that channel anyway.
        
       | tomiplaz wrote:
       | No. I got all of my contracting jobs via HN (except the first
       | one, which was a natural transition) and am very grateful for
       | that. All of my clients were / are great, professionally and
       | personally.
        
       | throwmeaway666 wrote:
       | It is the only social network that I find worth engaging with and
       | by that I mean just create your profile and fill in some of your
       | data so recruiters have an idea of what you can do. You don't
       | NEED it to get hired but it sure has helped me find new jobs more
       | than once.
        
       | completelylegit wrote:
       | I've never gotten a job from linkedin despite having an account
       | (and references). I closed my account about 5 years ago and still
       | manage to get competitive salaries in senior level tech jobs.
        
       | dookahku wrote:
       | I've gotten a couple high quality leads via engineering managers
       | on LinkedIn. One was of Apple. I forgot what a regex was after I
       | got nervous though so no job
        
       | enigmatic02 wrote:
       | It's a good way to get recruited, but no you can definitely get
       | away with resumes and referrals into jobs without a linkedin
       | profile.
       | 
       | LinkedIn is also better for big tech, hard to do research on
       | smaller startups. For that, I prefer using crunchbase and
       | topstartups.io
        
       | johnklos wrote:
       | You do not need to use LinkedIn. They are a scammy, spammy
       | company that was so bad that getting acquired by Microsoft made
       | them better, not worse.
        
       | eerikkivistik wrote:
       | I use LinkedIn as a honeypot/blacklist for companies that do
       | unethical spam. Just keep a text file with companies/people I
       | won't work with.
        
         | bhandziuk wrote:
         | Yes but how do you store such a large file?
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | To me LinkedIn is simply a marketplace for resumes that
       | recruiters research to find people they match to their positions.
       | They then contact you. It's also for maintaining a professional
       | network of current and former work associates to get possible job
       | leads if you're looking or they need to hire.
       | 
       | All the other stuff seems like filler material to me so I ignore
       | it all.
        
       | rosgoo wrote:
       | I'm actually currently building a LinkedIn alternative to fix a
       | lot of the pain points in this thread: https://leapful.dev/
       | 
       | - Minimalist social network for engineers: no feed, no messages
       | from anyone not in your network.
       | 
       | - Input ideal job criteria and get matching and vetted job
       | requests with standardized fields instead of paragraphs of texts
       | from random recruiters.
       | 
       | - Private, no Google Analytics, and open-source.
        
       | abadger9 wrote:
       | Definitely not! I deactivated my linked in 5 years ago and got
       | emails from Amazon, Snapchat, and some stealth company that
       | didn't want to disclose their name since Monday. I think it's not
       | as necessary on the engineering side, but I did pass all the
       | rounds of interviews @twitter but have a manager pass on me
       | because i didn't have a linkedin profile (this was through a 3rd
       | party contracting agency and not the FTE application route)
        
       | jcadam wrote:
       | Got my last two jobs via LinkedIn. I don't engage much with
       | LinkedIn beyond using it as an online resume and a job hunting
       | tool - they basically ruined the groups feature a few years ago
       | AFAIC.
        
       | soneca wrote:
       | I am a midlevel frontend developer. I had to look for a job one
       | time per year for the last 3 years.
       | 
       | 3 years ago I tried everything. I applied to (literally) hundreds
       | of position. More than 100 on LinkedIn, which led to nothing (50%
       | ghosted, 50% automated rejection). Applied to a few from HN ("Who
       | is hiring"), a couple of interviews, no offer. A fez dozens on
       | AngelList, a few interviews, one offer, got hired.
       | 
       | 2 years ago I mostly gave up on LinkedIn. Still applied to a
       | couple of dozens there, same result of 50% ghosted 50% automated
       | rejection. Applied to a few dozens on AngelList, a few
       | interviews, no offers. This time, on HN, I applied to all
       | positions that I could be a match (for two "Who is hiring"
       | threads). A few interviews, got hired by one of those.
       | 
       | Last year I ditched LinkedIn completely for applications. I did
       | not apply for a single job there (but kept my profile updated and
       | I could see that my profile was visited by people from the
       | companies I was applying). Applied to all of HN positions of
       | December's thread, several interviews, two offers. Applied to
       | about 20 positions on AngelList, a few interviews, one offer,
       | which I ended up accepting.
       | 
       | So LinkedIn is a complete waste of my time when applying to jobs
       | there, but I believe keeping a profile there helps a little
       | (although probably a good enough resume file could do the job).
       | 
       | Some caveats, with more experience my application-to-interview-
       | to-offer ratio improved a lot, except on LinkedIn. There a couple
       | of reasons for this I think. Big companies use LinkedIn more. Big
       | companies have more silly (imo) requirements, having a CS degree
       | (I don't) or the recruiter recognizing where I studied (I went to
       | college in Brazil).
       | 
       | Also, this last time I was back living in Brazil, so I wanted
       | companies that hire globally remote and that's mostly small
       | companies that don't use LinkedIn for hiring.
        
         | octobus2021 wrote:
         | Seconding that. The quality of positions on Linkedin is not
         | just down, I found them essentially worthless (applied to less
         | than 100 positions but still a lot). Some positions are there
         | for more than 1 year (and shown as recently posted), dead
         | links, some links lead to job boards that force you to register
         | with them just to show the job description, etc etc.
         | 
         | The "Home" page feed is full of inspirational quotes/memes and
         | heartwarming videos, so they're building a social network which
         | I have no need for. I only have the profile because
         | recruiters/employers increasingly require LinkedIn profile with
         | your application.
        
         | abledon wrote:
         | export resume function is their killer feature imo
        
       | didip wrote:
       | Why don't you want to use LinkedIn? It's a low effort tool to get
       | used to.
        
       | invalidname wrote:
       | No. But it is useful and solves a lot of problems for me.
       | 
       | It's pretty easy to see who you and the interviewer know in
       | common. That way we can get references and pass the interviews
       | more easily. I'm very experienced and at my level, if I didn't
       | have references it would be unacceptable. LinkedIn lets people
       | instantly see who we both know so they can ask about me and get a
       | reliable answer.
       | 
       | I do the same when I'm hiring. It helps with my confidence level.
        
       | chuckdotis wrote:
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | I blocked all email from linkedin on my mail server back in 2005
       | or so when they were relentlessly spamming _every_ email address
       | they could find. I still have them blocked. I never bothered to
       | create a linkedin account because from what I hear, 99.9% of the
       | content is inane self-promotion and a never ending stream of
       | begging from low-quality recruiters with low-quality offers.
       | 
       | 100% of all the jobs I've had in my two-decades-long technology
       | career have been from my real, in-person social network. "Hey
       | bityard, I work at this cool place and think you should too."
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Oh man that was terrible. I graduated in late 2004, got a job
         | in 2005 and I literally got 10 e-mails from linked in per week
         | to all of my e-mail addresses.
         | 
         | It's why, to this day, I do not have a linked in profile.
         | Obviously if my family were starving I'd do what it takes to
         | get a job, but given that programming jobs are fairly easy to
         | find, I am not signing up.
        
       | yakkomajuri wrote:
       | It's certainly not a necessity, but it can help.
       | 
       | Back when I used to work as a consultant I got 3 good clients
       | mostly via LinkedIn, including a Fortune 500 company that cold
       | messaged me.
       | 
       | As for regular employment, there's often a multitude of ways to
       | apply, so LinkedIn isn't necessary. If you need a good LinkedIn
       | profile to get hired, well, that's another debate.
        
       | jlturner wrote:
       | No, but employers usually look at it for past work experience and
       | positions. All of this will be on your CV/resume anyway. I
       | believe that I get a lot more recruiters reaching out because of
       | it (for better or worse).
        
       | geocrasher wrote:
       | LinkedIn has been a great tool for me and was instrumental in
       | getting my latest job. What started as an answer to a call for
       | technical writers ended up in a full time job in my industry (web
       | hosting) with people I'd never have known otherwise. So yeah. Why
       | not? Sure, there are downsides to LinkedIn, but get what you want
       | out of it, ignore the rest.
        
       | zmb_ wrote:
       | I just completed a successful job search, including landing a
       | great senior level IC role at a large tech company. I do not have
       | LinkedIn (or GitHub etc.).
       | 
       | Based on what I've read and heard from hiring managers, I
       | optimized two things: CV and video call setup. My CV was
       | customized for every application, a single page dense with
       | information but designed to be easy to skim and pattern match to
       | the role requirements. For video calls, I had a high quality
       | camera, microphone, lighting and background arrangement. There
       | are tons of guides for YouTuber setups, which I followed.
       | 
       | I have no control experiment (it could be due to a hot job market
       | or my experience profile) but I was honestly quite surprised how
       | effective it all seemed.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | I agree that video call setup is important. I'd suggest it is
         | way undervalued.
         | 
         | People don't understand how important production quality is.
         | Virtual backgrounds and automatic cropping / lighting adjust
         | can be good but aren't as good as getting it right in the first
         | place.
         | 
         | Setting up quality video conference production for remote
         | interviewing is often easier than buying and caring for all of
         | the clothes in the grooming often needed for in person
         | interviewing.
        
         | lvspiff wrote:
         | I love the callout for a video call setup - have something more
         | than just a pixelated camera and blank wall in the background!
         | Things like lighting and ability to see and hear you can make
         | or break an interview if not at least make you stand out for
         | being clearer than the rest.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bennyp101 wrote:
       | I have never got a job via LinkedIn, and when I did have an
       | account years ago when it first started, I closed it because of
       | the crazy amount of spam I used to get from it.
       | 
       | It's a social media account. Instead of posting about how great
       | your cats are, you post about how great this article that you
       | wrote is.
       | 
       | I guess if you MUST have one, just put a link to your own site
       | with CV and stuff that you want - then its there for normal
       | people to see, and those that insist on using a social media
       | platform to decide if they should hire you or not.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | > It's a social media account. Instead of posting about how
         | great your cats are, you post about how great this article that
         | you wrote is.
         | 
         | A trend I've seen is the absolute bombardment of overly flowery
         | "I'm leaving my current company and joining this other". It's
         | exasperating.
        
       | jokethrowaway wrote:
       | I never found a job via LinkedIn. I found a job via GitHub but I
       | mainly found jobs in my personal network.
       | 
       | At first they were cheap startups, then they turned into better
       | paying companies.
       | 
       | The jobs I get offered on LinkedIn are mostly paying less than
       | 50% of what I'm making via personal contacts. A few can get to
       | 90% of what I'm making.
       | 
       | I tolerate LinkedIn because I'm too lazy to have a CV and because
       | it's nice to gauge how the market is changing by looking at their
       | salary ranges. I also add everyone and ignore them if they're
       | selling services / jobs I'm not interested in.
        
       | sshine wrote:
       | I never used LinkedIn to land a job. I once received a relevant
       | offer (compiler specialist located less than 500km away that
       | requires relocating; the recruiter actually did a good job). I
       | never got a ton of spammy offers, but I got enough to delete
       | LinkedIn.
       | 
       | But YMMV. I also don't have Facebook; I use GitHub as a portfolio
       | page and do have some open source going on there.
       | 
       | Witnessing what happened to Marak, who broke his own npm
       | libraries and got locked out of GitHub, my conclusion is that the
       | platform does not operate on the user's terms. Yet another mega
       | corp.
        
       | jonathankoren wrote:
       | Pretty much every job I've gotten in the last 10 years has come
       | either directly or indirectly from LinkedIn.
       | 
       | It's a good product, and I don't understand the hate it gets
       | here.
       | 
       | What's the alternative? Begging some old coworkers or friends for
       | a referral? That's a relatively small net.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | I don't use linked in, I have been hired. Put "N/A" in the
       | linked-in field.
        
       | xunn0026 wrote:
       | You can probably find a local job on LinkedIn but nothing decent
       | remote.
       | 
       | I found my best remote job due to an announcement right here on
       | HN. My 2nd best (and longest running) due to some open source
       | involvement.
       | 
       | LinkedIn has been terrible in finding jobs. I actually tried to
       | apply to a Google job being suggested to me and was shocked to
       | see that I am being take to another portal to fill-in my data. I
       | would have assumed my data being filled into LinkedIn
       | automatically gets shared with the employees I apply to. Which
       | means LinkedIn it not very practical.
        
         | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
         | This isn't true at all. We hire remote folks sourced from
         | LinkedIn all the time. In fact, it's one of the _best_ ways to
         | find global remote candidates as most folks refer people they
         | know, which are mostly local or centered around some economic
         | area.
        
           | xunn0026 wrote:
           | I guess LinkedIn delivers for you.
           | 
           | Since I work entirely remote my (previous) team is already
           | distributed.
           | 
           | But LinkedIn itself has basically little support for this
           | scenario. I noticed that although my previous startup was in
           | SV they started promoting me local jobs as soon as I marked
           | I'm "open for work".
           | 
           | I had to change my location to SV to get SV jobs but then
           | some of those had timezone requirements, etc.
        
       | friendlydog wrote:
       | How else do you track your old work colleagues and ask for a job
       | when they get hired at a place to work? Recruiters are there too,
       | but if you know someone it can ease the hunt especially if you do
       | good work and they remember you.
        
       | Taylor_OD wrote:
       | No. I'd just post a link to your resume in that spot. Companies
       | like it but no one will hard pass on you because you dont have
       | one. That being said making it easier for companies to hire
       | you/reach out to you is good if you are actively searching for a
       | new job.
        
       | DoubleGlazing wrote:
       | I have never got a job through LinkedIn, even though I get loads
       | of contacts from recruiters - as many as 10 per week. The problem
       | is that those contacts are poor quality. They are spammy as heck,
       | basically mass emailing anyone who has a specific search phrase
       | anywhere in their profile.
       | 
       | For the last year my profile bio has opened with the statement
       | "Recruiters: Please tell me what your favourite colour is if you
       | want me to respond to your message." Not one recruiter has
       | actually done that. They literally do not even look at your
       | profile.
        
         | evanelias wrote:
         | I feel like the quality issue is only getting worse over time.
         | Yesterday I received a LinkedIn message from a recruiter that
         | began with "I wanted to reach out as it is almost the end of
         | the year" ...
         | 
         | The same recruiter previously emailed me in December and did
         | not use that phrase, so it's not like he always copy-and-pastes
         | the same thing. However, in his December message, he misspelled
         | my name (which is only 4 letters long), and never even
         | mentioned which company he is hiring for -- it was only
         | apparent in his signature line.
         | 
         | This was a Google recruiter, hiring for staff+ level SWE roles.
        
           | 908B64B197 wrote:
           | I think we have this post every few months on this site, so
           | let me explain how recruiting works. There's 3 types/market
           | for recruiters and they almost never overlap.
           | 
           | The first are "body shop style" recruiters. It's basically a
           | numbers game where they try to cold-call as much people with
           | githubs/linkedin or blogs that reference programming. They
           | don't know programming (not even what's the difference
           | between languages or front-end/back-end) and are looking for
           | a list of buzzwords. They'll send copy-pasted messages (you
           | can tell because it references tech you never used or never
           | even claimed to have used). If you respond (and really you
           | shouldn't) you won't be able to get any relevant information
           | about the position because... they don't have it. These
           | recruiters are often contracted by external firms in "best
           | value countries" and are given canned response to message
           | you. That's probably what the author encountered.
           | 
           | Second type are professional recruiters. Their salary is by
           | commissions will often be a percentage of your salary. They
           | are knowledgeable about programming and tech (often former
           | engineers who wanted a break from coding!). They typically
           | are looking to match specific profiles to specific jobs at
           | client companies. This goes all the way to recruiters
           | specialized in C-Suite executives (and you can picture the
           | commission finding a CEO will bring in). Their messages will
           | be personalized and you shouldn't hesitate to reply back even
           | if you aren't looking for a job. They know that most great
           | software engineers are almost never openly looking for a job
           | so their goal is to be on good terms with a large number of
           | talented developers so that the minute they start looking for
           | a job they can match them with positions. You'll know when
           | you encounter one.
           | 
           | Third type is basically referrals. A players attract A
           | players, smart companies know it. Make sure your referral
           | bonus is a percentage of total comp. It's probably the most
           | effective way of recruiting (it has an insane signal to noise
           | ratio). But you only get access to that type of network by...
           | bringing value and being part of it in the first place!
        
             | evanelias wrote:
             | My point was more that even Google -- a company with a 1.9
             | trillion dollar market cap -- is now relying on cut-and-
             | paste-error recruiters, even when sourcing for roles which
             | pay $500k+.
             | 
             | I've seen a lot of cringey recruitment communications over
             | the years, but rarely encountered it for very senior roles
             | at top companies in the past. Seems way more common now.
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | In my experience, Google and Amazon recruiter emails tend to
           | be the most poorly written, confusing and unprofessional
           | emails I receive from recruiters.
        
           | gspencley wrote:
           | My personal pet peeve is when recruiters talk about the
           | qualifications and tech stack at length but completely leave
           | out what the product / company is.
           | 
           | I know there are a lot of devs out there, particularly junior
           | and intermediates, who are looking to work with their
           | favourite tools or something they've not worked with before.
           | But after 25 years in the industry, having worked with
           | several "stacks" and programming languages and worked through
           | many popular paradigm shifts, I care far more about what I'm
           | building than I do what tools I'm using to build it.
           | 
           | So yeah, I ignore those recruiters.
        
             | nikita2206 wrote:
             | I find this is much more often emphasized by developer
             | interviewers.
        
           | DoubleGlazing wrote:
           | A really common one I get is emails about Java jobs where the
           | recruiter praises me for all my Java skills and experience
           | and talks about how I would be the perfect candidate for the
           | job they have. The thing is nowhere in my profile does it say
           | I have Java experience (I'm all C#/.Net), however it does
           | mention JavaScript in a few places. They couldn't be any more
           | obvious with their laziness.
        
             | wizzerking wrote:
             | That is why I have a NO JAVA Gmail template that tells the
             | recruiter to learn to properly use their search engine
             | https://www.lifehack.org/articles/technology/20-tips-use-
             | goo... https://edu.gcfglobal.org/en/topics/googleapps/
             | 
             | Since it is a template it takes 20 - 30 seconds to respond
        
             | jliptzin wrote:
             | Yea that's the best, when they start out saying how they
             | went over your profile and all the amazing things you've
             | done in XXX language even though that's not listed on your
             | profile at all!
        
         | rapfaria wrote:
         | While I understand the sentiment and don't like LinkedIn, I
         | would assume a recruiter view in the app shows aggregated data,
         | or they would be looking at hundreds of profiles everyday.
         | 
         | I also did something similar saying that "My rates start at
         | $150", and recruiters were still contacting me for $13.
        
         | edmundsauto wrote:
         | My counter anecdote 1 I'd never really used LinkedIn much, but
         | a FAANG recruiter found me on it. That's how I got my
         | interview, which I passed, which changed my life for the
         | better.
         | 
         | Mass recruiters are the problem here. I've never tried the
         | brown M&M strategy, Instead I prefer to just tell them no
         | thanks when it's not interesting.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | If they can fill their roles with acceptable candidates without
         | reading individual profiles, what's their incentive to do so?
         | 
         | Do you want a new job enough to be inconvenienced by
         | recruiters? If not, then this system seems to be working
         | perfectly.
        
           | DoubleGlazing wrote:
           | There is a high likelihood that that those scatter-gun
           | recruiters aren't placing people into appropriate jobs.
           | 
           | Most recruiters have one goal, get candidates into a job -
           | any job. Then they get their fee. They do not have an
           | obligation to get a candidate in to the most suitable job. In
           | my experience they will happily lie, flatter and cajole you
           | in to doing their bidding and taking a job that is not right
           | for you.
           | 
           | I don't want to deal with recruiters like that and that's why
           | I try to filter them out.
        
         | CSSer wrote:
         | I love the bio bit. That's a hilarious and really nice touch.
        
           | DoubleGlazing wrote:
           | It's interesting what happens when certain recruiters send a
           | follow up message when I don't answer first time. When that
           | happens I tell them to read my profile carefully. Some then
           | get it and send me a colour and a few have got a bit shirty
           | saying I am being unprofessional or that I am being
           | unreasonable expecting them to read my profile given the
           | pressures they are under.
        
             | AnimalMuppet wrote:
             | Wait, _you 're_ contacting _me_. Why should I care what
             | kind of pressure you 're under?
             | 
             | Who's being unprofessional here? Isn't it the recruiter?
        
               | paulcole wrote:
               | If this person needs a job more than they don't want to
               | be inconvenienced by recruiters, then they really don't
               | have a leg to stand on.
               | 
               | You can always be as demanding as you want but don't be
               | surprised when somebody else doesn't give in.
        
               | tata71 wrote:
               | Just seems like GGP is trying to avoid being hired by a
               | string of people not detail oriented.
        
               | DoubleGlazing wrote:
               | Pretty much. I have always found that it is better to
               | send out fewer customised job applications, rather than
               | send out loads that are all the same.
               | 
               | I wish recruiters would do the same. If I engage with
               | recruiters that use the scatter gun approach then it is
               | inevtable that they will be wasting my time as they just
               | aren't interested in detail and effort.
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | True, but DoubleGlazing _didn 't answer the first time._
               | That isn't someone who "needs a job more than they don't
               | want to be inconvenienced". That's a recruiter that wants
               | to find someone to fill a job more than they want to
               | respect your desire to not be inconvenienced. And I don't
               | have any sympathy.
        
             | nsxwolf wrote:
             | I had one send me a 4th follow up email this morning which
             | seems excessive. The funny thing is, all the emails are
             | spammy - it's clear that she sends all 4 of these to
             | everyone on some schedule.
        
         | encryptluks2 wrote:
         | This is why I deleted my LinkedIn profile and would suggest
         | others to the same. It has become nothing more than a spammy
         | network that collects way too much personal information.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Mc91 wrote:
         | I am a programmer and indirectly got my current job via
         | Linkedin. In 2019, a big four accounting firm contacted me on
         | Linkedin to do consulting work for them. I would not have
         | thought of applying to them but since they reached out I talked
         | to them and was hired, and was placed at a Fortune 100 company.
         | A year later (2020) I was hired by the F100 company.
         | 
         | Recruiters from Meta/Facebook and other companies have reached
         | out to me since then. The non-spammy ones directly from
         | companies I respond to, but told them I am not currently
         | interviewing.
         | 
         | In your settings you can check if you're active looking,
         | casually browsing etc. If you're marked as actively looking you
         | might get more incoming.
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | I suggest putting the blurb somewhere in your employment
         | history. Your LinkedIn profile gets scraped and imported by
         | various recruiting software. They often don't import the bio
         | blurb (although they probably should).
         | 
         | This won't eliminate the spam, but will increase your chance of
         | a recruiter seeing the blurb.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | Are you _trying to force them_ to see the blurb though? Van
           | Halen could have put a callout to the brown M &M clause in a
           | very prominent place in the contract, had a lot more venues
           | see the clause and, by so doing, make it no longer a useful
           | measurement of their attention to detail and level of effort.
           | 
           | https://www.insider.com/van-halen-brown-m-ms-
           | contract-2016-9...
        
       | ericalexander0 wrote:
       | Hiring is a signal to noise problem. Know the signal they're
       | filtering for, filtering tools in use, and you'll get an
       | interview. If they're asking for a linked in profile, then it's a
       | tool in use.
        
       | BigBalli wrote:
       | More than "have to" I wonder "can you"...
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | I've been lucky enough to get almost all my recent jobs off
       | LinkedIn,
       | 
       | The Easy Apply is straight up revolutionary, because you don't
       | need to wade through a 20-page job application anymore. I don't
       | need to answer a personality quiz to apply for a job . Job .
       | 
       | That said, I absolutely hate the photos on LinkedIn. My physical
       | appearance and my qualifications are two different things.
        
       | jrockway wrote:
       | I've never had a LinkedIn account and have held several jobs
       | throughout my career.
        
       | tupac_speedrap wrote:
        
       | swagtricker wrote:
       | I've gotten hired due to LinkedIn exactly once, and it was
       | helpful. However, that's not how I "use" it. LinkedIn's best use
       | is what it was intended for: a professional networking social
       | media space. Here's how I've used it successfully.
       | 
       | Put your resume on LinkedIn. Send connect requests to people
       | you've worked with and who you'd be willing to work with again.
       | Accept connect requests from people you've either worked with or
       | know from professional networking (meet ups, conferences, user
       | groups, open source project collaborators).
       | 
       | Why?
       | 
       | If someone asks for your Resume, you can first point to your
       | LinkedIn profile (less of a pain). If someone has a job opening,
       | they'll have a way to contact YOU about the opportunity (yes -
       | I've had this happen multiple times). If someone with a job
       | opening pings you (hiring manager or team member NOT A
       | RECRUITER!) you can "introduce" people and help a former co-
       | worker find a job or contract work (I've done this a couple of
       | times). From time to time you'll get pings from former co-workers
       | who might not have another way to contact you - It's nice to talk
       | shop over beers.
       | 
       | Summary: LinkedIn lets you keep your professional network
       | separate from your personal network.
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | As a counter to your anecdote, my last three jobs have come
         | through LinkedIn and I use it as the SOLE platform for anything
         | work-related. I refuse to apply for a job that doesn't ingest
         | my LinkedIn profile information; my resume is just a PDF copy
         | of my LinkedIn profile (which is fully public too); and I tell
         | people to go to my LinkedIn profile because business cards died
         | 20+ years ago.
        
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