[HN Gopher] Wine on Wayland year-end update: improved functional...
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Wine on Wayland year-end update: improved functionality and
stability
Author : mfilion
Score : 114 points
Date : 2022-01-12 11:56 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.collabora.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.collabora.com)
| Zhyl wrote:
| Along with Proton, Steam Play, the Steam Deck, Easy Anti-Cheat
| support for Wine, Battleye suppport for wine, FSR and a bunch of
| other stuff, this means that gaming is getting more viable on
| Linux.
|
| It isn't there _yet_ , but it's close.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| The only piece not there is the anti-cheat software support.
|
| Most games run perfectly fine, even better than Windows
| usually. Players just get kicked from online games because of
| the anti-cheat software recognizing the OS as Linux
| distribution.
|
| This is mostly on lazy companies who can't seem to make a
| simple update to support the proper anti-cheat binaries.
| babypuncher wrote:
| Have any games actually enabled EAC or BattleEye for
| Wine/Proton yet? So far it's feeling like they put in a whole
| lot of work for nothing.
| oynqr wrote:
| Planetside 2 comes to mind. Although the performance in big
| fights is usually terrible.
| edflsafoiewq wrote:
| Does it? Isn't this just re-implementing stuff that works in
| X11 to work in Wayland now?
| sandworm101 wrote:
| It is there now. I play all sorts of games on Linux, including
| VR. Some AAA titles are still a no-go but perfection should
| cannot be the enemy good. I'd say that linux is more useful
| than any console. Every console can only play approved games,
| limiting each to a subset of the total number of playable games
| in the world. Linux, via proton/wine, can today play more games
| than any console. So if gaming on consoles is a thing today (it
| is) then gaming on linux is too.
|
| I have read that "gaming" now requires more than just playing
| games, that you also need to be able to stream and edit videos
| in order to "game". I think that definition goes to far as I am
| certainly a gamer but have never felt any desire to stream.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Linux has always played some set of games well enough,
| usually enough to keep a person busy I'd argue, but the
| experience has remained subpar and excludes the most common
| games which is what people mean by viability. E.g. of the 10
| most popular Steam games the only 3 that are green (and they
| are all Steam exclusives which bumps their Steam numbers a
| bit), the rest either don't launch at all or have severe
| bugs/limitations. Similarly "nothing has every game" doesn't
| mean "everything with a game is equally comparable", Steam on
| Linux is missing significantly more of the top 10 titles than
| those same 10 titles on console for example. This also
| largely extends into the top 100 or outside of Steam.
|
| It's almost there though, one of my friends is finally able
| to play some of the games with us via his Linux install but
| he still has a Windows install he boots to for most games. A
| couple years ago he didn't even bother and just ran all
| gaming from Windows because it was giving too much trouble
| for too few games. As long as it keeps moving in this
| direction it will be good!
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> but the experience has remained subpar and excludes the
| most common games
|
| Minecraft. KSP. Factorio. Counter-strike. Rocket League.
| Among Us.
|
| >> E.g. of the 10 most popular Steam games the only 3 that
| are green (and they are all Steam exclusives which bumps
| their Steam numbers a bit)
|
| Which list are you looking at? Sales or how many people are
| actually playing these games? I couldn't care less about
| which games sell the most. What matters is which games are
| actually being played, something very different than sales.
| According to this list, the bulk of the most popular games
| run fine on linux, several natively.
|
| https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-pc-games/
| zamadatix wrote:
| Minecraft is only supported on the legacy version not the
| new version you need to play with
| Xbox/Android/iOS/Switch/PS/Bedrock users, same for
| Minecraft Dungeons. Rocket League used to be natively
| supported and now must be run through Proton (though at
| least Epic hasn't blocked it via DRM like Fortnite),
| Among Us barely makes the top 100 now and is regularly
| broken/subpar but it is one my friend was able to play
| with us when it was popular (with a bit of fighting),
| Counter Strike works great but is one of the 3 Valve
| titles I was talking about.
|
| > Which list are you looking at?
|
| ProtonDB https://www.protondb.com/ which uses Steam's
| live statistics
| https://store.steampowered.com/stats/Steam-Game-and-
| Player-S.... I think that site you linked is just
| republishing Steam's page in a static version (but
| without the information on which that ProtonDB adds).
|
| If you want to go beyond Steam the numbers only get worse
| as Valve has been leading the push for Linux gaming, even
| making their own Linux gaming devices for many years.
| E.g. Fortnite from Epic typically peaks around 20-30
| million active players each day (which is around the same
| as the peak number of Steam users concurrently logged in
| whether playing the game or not - albeit not all PC
| obviously) and you can't even join a match on Linux.
|
| > Sales or how many people are actually playing these
| games?
|
| The latter, a lot of the most popular games are F2P now
| so it wouldn't even be possible to do the comparison by
| sold copies.
| bentheklutz wrote:
| Rocket League has been officially unsupported for linux
| since the beginning of 2020[0]. One can still play it via
| means others in the thread have mentioned, but for me
| it's more notable in this conversation as a popular title
| that had native linux support and lost it later on.
|
| [0] https://www.rocketleague.com/news/ending-support-for-
| mac-and...
| babypuncher wrote:
| I don't stream on twitch but I'll regularly show off a game
| or something to friends by streaming on Discord.
|
| More than half of the top played games are still silver or
| worse on ProtonDB so I really don't think we can go around
| saying Linux is a viable option for most PC gamers. It's good
| on a case-by-case basis.
| Zhyl wrote:
| It's on a per-case basis I think. I will call it 'ready' when
| I can pick up a Linux PC or a Steam Deck off of the shelf
| with zero fiddling, install and boot up a {Steam,
| Multiplayer, Non-Steam, comes-with-own-launcher-on-PC} game
| without any fuss and just play.
|
| Proton has made more games playable than ever before, but
| there are still those that won't run [0].
|
| EAC and Battleye have announced official support for both
| Linux and WINE, but still many games are unplayable due to
| anti-cheat not being supported for those particular games
| [1].
|
| Steam Deck is coming, but is not out yet.
|
| The Steam Deck UI and SteamOS 3.0 looks like it will be a
| better replacement for Steam OS 1-2 and Steam Machines by an
| order of magnitude, but they aren't there yet [2].
|
| Linux active users on steam are at the highest they've been
| since the release of proton, but still haven't pushed through
| 3% (and currently around 1%) [3]
|
| So all in all, all the elements are coming together and a LOT
| of investment is going into it. 2022 will be an exciting year
| for Gaming on Linux.
|
| But it isn't there _yet_
|
| [0] https://protondb.com
|
| [1] https://areweanticheatyet.com/
|
| [2] https://boilingsteam.com/steam-deck-developer-kit-
| impression...
|
| [3]
| https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-
| Li...
| krastanov wrote:
| I probably mostly agree with you, but the standard you are
| holding Linux/Wine/Proton to in your first paragraph is
| definitely not met even by Windows (any version).
| Zhyl wrote:
| I mean that's fair. I think even getting to Windows
| parity, warts and all, would be good.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> when I can pick up a Linux PC or a Steam Deck off of the
| shelf with zero fiddling, install and boot up a {Steam,
| Multiplayer, Non-Steam, comes-with-own-launcher-on-PC} game
| without any fuss and just play.
|
| That is today. Buy any linux PC from any number of vendors.
| Download KSP and play. Download the steam client and play
| Factorio. Or install wine/proton and play Subnautica.
|
| My brother owns an Xbox. He wants to play star citizen but
| cannot on xbox. In fact there are thousands of games that
| don't run on xbox. That doesn't mean that xbox isn't a
| fully-fledged gaming device.
| Zhyl wrote:
| > Buy any linux PC from any number of vendors
|
| I choose Currys [0]
|
| > Download KSP and play
|
| I choose Fortnite
|
| > My brother owns an Xbox. He wants to play star citizen
| but cannot on xbox. In fact there are thousands of games
| that don't run on xbox. That doesn't mean that xbox isn't
| a fully-fledged gaming device.
|
| True, I guess it will be up to the gaming community as to
| whether Linux needs PC/Windows parity in order to be
| worth using or whether it can be considered its own
| platform which is worthwhile despite not having any of
| the games from the links in my above post.
|
| [0] https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/search-
| keywords/xx_xx_xx_xx_xx...
| smoldesu wrote:
| Can you pick up a new Windows machine and play my Super
| Tux Kart binary?
| Zhyl wrote:
| Seems so
|
| https://supertuxkart.net/Download
| smoldesu wrote:
| then they're equal to me
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> it will be up to the gaming community
|
| No. It is up to gamers. I don't care about Microsoft,
| RockStar or PewdiePie's position on the state of linux
| gaming. All the matters is the people who actually play
| the games.
| Zhyl wrote:
| By "the gaming community" I mean gamers.
| bee_rider wrote:
| By that standard it will definitely never be ready. But
| that seems like a really specific and high bar that, for
| example, Windows won't ever meet. I mean, even ignoring
| Playstation and Switch exclusives, Windows support of, for
| example, 10 year old Windows games can require tweaking and
| fiddling.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| >Valve claims enabling it for Proton is as easy as sending
| an email.
|
| and the megacorps can't be bothered to send and email and
| let users fix their bugs, be their test dummies, pay for
| their software in the name of chicken or egg?
| yaomtc wrote:
| > Easy Anti-Cheat support
|
| Only the newer of two types of EAC:
| https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/01/easy-anti-cheat-not-as...
| Symmetry wrote:
| Oh right. I was having trouble getting Cyberpunk to work nicely
| with Wayland when it came out and switched to X where it worked,
| baring some background sounds. I should revisit that and switch
| back to Wayland and see how it does. Note: the background sounds
| thing got fixed in a few weeks.
| oynqr wrote:
| Man, I remember running Cyberpunk on release. Single digit
| framerates and kernel panics, on a 5700 XT. It became playable
| within a couple of weeks.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| this looks like this will help apps other than games as well.
| nice. really hoping for wine to shine so that more software can
| be used in a linux environment helping with reducing windows
| dependence.
| miduil wrote:
| Oh I love the Chrome example, that could mean that one can watch
| Netflix in 4K under Linux.
| luckystarr wrote:
| I tried it on Amazon and it works, but only for their in-house
| productions. Anything outside of that, you'll get 720p because
| it can't verify the HDMI chain or something.
| spicybright wrote:
| I get the same issues under normal usage (MacOS).
|
| I pay for prime, watch a movie I can only legally view there,
| but I'm not able to plug in a monitor/TV to watch it.
|
| I get an error about DRM not being supported by the monitor
| and/or HDMI cable. They make some excuse about cables not
| supporting some ultra 4k setting, but I think that's BS. I
| can pirate the same resolution content and play it fine on
| VLC.
|
| I'm paying but still can't watch what I'm paying for. This is
| why people pirate.
|
| Related to it: https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D54P00
| 007ccK4lSAE/ev...
| krastanov wrote:
| This is why I tend to pay for the movie on whichever
| service they are on and then go ahead and download the
| pirated copy for actual consumption. It is important for me
| to find a way to fund the creators, but the user experience
| with non-pirated media is quite bad. I just wish there was
| a way to pay the creators and artists while also hurting
| the DRM-pushing middlemen.
| spicybright wrote:
| Wish someone could pull a humble indie bundle on it. Pay
| per title, download DRM free, most of the $ go to
| creators, less money pumped into DRM platforms.
|
| Works well with thousands of tiny studios, nearly
| impossible with the few large ones we have though...
| throwaway473825 wrote:
| What's the point of going through all this trouble when all
| content available on Netflix can be obtained more easily
| without silly restrictions?
| jrm4 wrote:
| Creating and preserving the idea that, generally, individuals
| ought to be able to view and experience content however they
| wish, especially if it's legitimately paid for.
| throwaway473825 wrote:
| But you're supporting the opposite idea by paying for DRM
| content.
| jrm4 wrote:
| Sure, but we've been at this for years. It's rarely an
| all-or-nothing thing. Netflix strikes me as a very
| reasonable, non-deceptive, consensus solution for the
| issue. A non-deal-breaking preference would be for me to
| use my computer just as I use the Roku.
| diamondlovesyou wrote:
| Due to the monopolistic nature of copyright/IP, there is
| no option to avoid it.
|
| But technically, nobody pays for it. They pay to access
| an on-demand and at-will _service_ which provides the
| content. The content itself is never bought (by the
| consumer, that is).
| est31 wrote:
| I'm not sure that will work, as Wine will probably break the
| DRM, which is the reason that non-Chrome OS Linux doesn't get
| Netflix 4k in the first place.
| muizelaar wrote:
| I don't think Chrome supports Netflix in 4K under Windows.
| miduil wrote:
| Ah you I right, I assumed it's only a Linux issue.
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