[HN Gopher] Inflammation in the gut is encoded by neurons in the...
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Inflammation in the gut is encoded by neurons in the brain
Author : nabla9
Score : 101 points
Date : 2022-01-10 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
| skim_milk wrote:
| For me, the thing that sucks most about IBS is the medication.
| The link between mind/body/pain/inflammation is pretty obvious
| when you start taking strong anti-inflammatory drugs, at least
| for me! Evidently, everyone in my family tree responds really
| poorly to steroids and other anti-inflammatory drugs - a relative
| of mine committed suicide after taking steroids for IBS with
| absolutely no evident mental problems before treatment, leaving
| behind his young family. Personally, I'd rather die early from my
| gut diseases than go back on anti-inflammatory drugs, even the
| modern biologic ones that supposedly have _no_ side-effects.
| There 's just no way to target inflammation with drugs without
| severely impacting the brain (at least with me and my family's
| biology).
| kerneltime wrote:
| I recently came across a term "Functional Medicine"
| https://www.ifm.org which looks at the body as a whole and
| tries to root cause metabolic issues which can often result in
| IBS cures.. most older medicinal practices always considered
| the body as a unified system which make sense in terms of how
| it is engineered but modern medicine tries to break things down
| and often misses the cross specialization impacts. Best of
| luck!
| serverholic wrote:
| I have autonomic-dysfunction, basically my nervous system
| malfunctions in (luckily) mild ways. I've noticed that if I go
| from an unhealthy lifestyle to suddenly living a healthy
| lifestyle there's often a period where I feel sick, pale, and
| faint.
|
| Luckily this effect only lasts a few days for me but it's made
| me wonder if our bodies find ways around malfunctioning and
| then can't adjust quickly enough if the malfunction is reduced
| or removed.
| emerongi wrote:
| Above all, for all readers: talk about these things with your
| doctors. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence online and it's
| just like negative reviews: the people with positive
| experiences aren't really talking about it much.
|
| As someone with a bowel disease, I can thank medicine for
| giving my life back.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| I'm not sure how to discuss TFA because I can only read half a
| paragraph of it due to the paywall.
|
| Instead of commenting speculatively, I'm going to wait for
| someone to post more of the article, or a link to the full
| article.
| csours wrote:
| Is there a good intermediate/undergraduate level write up of this
| inflammation link? There's a lot of quackery out there on this
| subject, so I don't trust search results.
| sooheon wrote:
| Seems like a novel finding, so the paper in OP's link (and
| references) would be the best place to start.
| dekhn wrote:
| a note: when Nature says "Inflammation in the gut is encoded by
| neurons in the brain" it really means "some inflammation in the
| gut is associated with neurons in the brain". Not "all", just
| some. scientists and science journalists often write PR that
| makes the work sound more general than it is. And "encoded" is a
| really squishy term. Just because neurons "light up" when you
| apply a condition, and can replicate that condition under some
| circumstances, doesn't mean the data is "encoded".
| bryan0 wrote:
| non-paywalled summary?
| panabee wrote:
| Article on related research: https://www.quantamagazine.org/new-
| science-shows-immune-memo...
|
| Summary of article on related research: More than a century
| later, in a paper published today in Cell, the neuroimmunologist
| Asya Rolls has shown that a similar kind of conditioning extends
| to immune responses. Using state-of-the-art genetic tools in
| mice, her team at the Technion in Haifa, Israel, identified brain
| neurons that became active during experimentally induced
| inflammation in the abdomen. Later, the researchers showed that
| restimulating those neurons could trigger the same types of
| inflammation again.
| andrewpkyap wrote:
| I don't think that it's wise to start imagining how this finding
| would implicate diseases, much less "other diseases".
| echelon wrote:
| It feels like we're on the precipice of linking a number of
| neurodegenerative diseases [1], auto-immune diseases [2], and a
| whole host of other ailments to immune and gut health.
|
| Likewise finding incredible links for liver (potentially
| Alzheimer's [3]) and pulmonary health (air quality, heart disease
| [4]).
|
| Who knew? But it seems obvious in retrospect. We're truly
| dynamical, vastly interlinked systems.
|
| [1]
| https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291...
|
| [2]
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190219080742.h...
|
| [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29393937
|
| [4] https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/linking-air-pollution-
| and...
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| That's my hope as well.
|
| But that's somewhat tempered by reports of reproducibility
| crises in scientific / academic research.
|
| I wish I had a better sense of the extent to which that matters
| for stories like this.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| I wonder if this has implications for pain management as well. Ie
| is the brain doing the same thing for things like chronic back
| pain (the pain triggers some neural imprint, but the imprint can
| then trigger the pain again even if the underlying physical
| problem had gone away).
| eli_gottlieb wrote:
| >Writing in Cell, Koren et al.3 demonstrate that inflammation in
| the abdominal cavity results in the stimulation of certain
| neurons in a brain area called the insular cortex, or the insula.
| Artificial reactivation of these 'immune-imprinted' neurons is
| sufficient to generate organ-specific recall of inflammatory
| responses that resemble the initial inflammatory episode.
|
| Ok, so there are gut/vagal interoceptors for inflammation. Their
| ascending fibers land in the insula, which is, of course, the
| primary interoceptive cortex. What's new here?
| ramraj07 wrote:
| What's new is that the neurons can trigger back the same
| inflammation that got imprinted on them.
| 52-6F-62 wrote:
| I don't have access to the article, and I'm probably not
| versed enough to understand it fully anyway.
|
| So, if I may ask you, or the larger thread--
|
| this is implying the the inflammation will repeat if the
| neurons are activated [in such a way]?
|
| Could/would this impact one-time sufferers of SIRS and/or
| acute pancreatitis (being an inflammatory disease)?
|
| Would it match the original severity?
| treeman79 wrote:
| Having dealt with an autoimmune condition and been involved with
| various forums I have seen a strong pattern.
|
| First trying lots of medications. Sometimes this goes well.
| Sometimes not.
|
| Then supplements.
|
| Then eventually people get serious about diet. Turns out there is
| a diet built around autoimmune conditions. Autoimmune Protocol
| Diet. Many people have great success with it. Not all.
|
| Would love so see some studies on it.
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