[HN Gopher] Study finds, surprisingly, that women are favored fo...
___________________________________________________________________
Study finds, surprisingly, that women are favored for jobs in STEM
Author : kvee
Score : 46 points
Date : 2022-01-10 19:29 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
| ceras wrote:
| Note that the headline is overly broad: this is just for tenure-
| track academic jobs. Non-academic jobs weren't in scope for this
| study.
|
| More specifically, it covered these academic jobs in these
| departments: biology, engineering, economics and psychology.
| draw_down wrote:
| Anyone who's been involved in STEM recruiting in recent years is
| likely to be less surprised.
| 0xy wrote:
| How is this surprising? Anyone who has been even tangentially
| close to hiring in tech has to know this. It's very rarely
| written policy (because it's illegal behavior), but more of a
| _wink wink nudge nudge_ , of "gee, it would be great if we could
| hire more women, interviewer".
|
| Some biased hiring policies exist to this day, notable in Google
| and other big names. Certain demographics are given a 2nd chance
| interview if the first is bombed, among the more implicit biases.
| You won't find this written anywhere, of course. The big names
| don't want their illegal behavior to come out during discovery.
|
| This research is also backed up by blind hiring experiments.
| Studies have shown that stripping name and gender from resumes
| results in less women and less minorities from being selected for
| interview (suggesting positive bias). Such blind hiring trials
| are quickly shuttered and swept under the rug to avoid rattling
| the PC orthodoxy.
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| > Such blind hiring trials are quickly shuttered and swept
| under the rug to avoid rattling the PC orthodoxy.
|
| France tried it and it backfired spectacularly.
|
| It's kinda sad because it creates two categories of devs when
| looking at internal hiring: people you know are there on merit
| and people who maybe got a little bit of help from "the quota".
|
| I've heard it (in engineering only meetings) "you know this guy
| is solid, he went to X and he's asian so you know he's there
| for the right reasons".
|
| Something I have to wonder is are women and minorities... ok
| with this?
| LorenPechtel wrote:
| And the anti-discrimination morons look at that sort of thing
| and think it's discrimination against women and minorities.
| oversocialized wrote:
| Duh, just look at the duckduckgo fiasco. Tech was the one area
| meritocracy was the norm and now that is changing. IMO resumes
| and tech interviews should be screened blindly without regard to
| name, sex, race or college.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I'm surprised that people thought women aren't favored.
| LeroyRaz wrote:
| I find it funny how deeply sexist the representation of findings
| like this are. Essentially the finding is that men, according to
| their study, are hugely discriminated against. This lack of
| meritocracy is not considered or portrayed as bad, but rather
| described as a great step forward for women.
|
| One sees similar portrayals of e.g. the gender education gap,
| which massively favours girls, as a triumph, rather than a
| problem. Sometimes the massively higher rate of male homelessness
| is even made out to be about how our statistics must be biased
| against registering women who are slumming it by e.g. couch
| surfing... There seems a massive bias in the social sciences
| against men.
| scarmig wrote:
| One of the things that always amuses me is when people complain
| about the underrepresentation of women in STEM majors. Why?
| It's actually 50/50. Women are only underrepresented in STEM
| majors in the sense that they aren't as overrepresented in them
| as they are in non-STEM areas of study.
| fivea wrote:
| > Why? It's actually 50/50.
|
| Is it, though? I'm sure it's not, and the ratio of women to
| men is much much lower. I know of a FANG which rejects male
| candidates with PhDs but goes to the extents of admitting
| female candidates with a single boot camp on their resume,
| and even then most teams barely have more than a couple of
| women in their ranks.
| scarmig wrote:
| Source: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2017/nsf17310/static
| /data/tab...
|
| It's true that in CS in particular, there are more men
| graduating than women. But people should say that instead
| of just "STEM."
|
| And they should probably express concern about not enough
| men studying e.g. biology, especially since many of the
| career paths that biology is a prerequisite for are
| relatively stable and well-paying.
| midiguy wrote:
| Maybe in S.... in TEM (especially computer science and
| engineering) there is no way it is close to 50/50.
| scarmig wrote:
| STEM is a well defined category. As a whole, it's split
| pretty much 50/50.
|
| I'm sure you can slice and dice it into subcategories and
| then pick and choose those that have a higher number of
| men, but I can do the exact same thing with those
| subcategories you arbitrarily exclude to create a mirror
| image showing how STEM is biased against men. But it's a
| silly game.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-01-10 23:02 UTC)