[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Is ProductHunt Worth It?
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       Ask HN: Is ProductHunt Worth It?
        
       I have a feeling that ProductHunt is only read by people who post
       to ProductHunt in a sort of pyramidal echo chamber. Is it the case,
       or does ProductHunt reach further than product managers in small
       companies?
        
       Author : d--b
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2022-01-09 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
       | marstall wrote:
       | (tl;dr: crapshoot as to whether you get featured, but worth it if
       | you do.)
       | 
       | my personal experience with it was positive.
       | 
       | I posted my site on PH over the summer (plug: https://avant.fm, a
       | customizable feed of new releases from the best indie music
       | labels).
       | 
       | After a couple weeks it was featured for a day. Not sure how that
       | happened, but someone with some pull "hunted" it I guess. About
       | 30 other sites were featured that day.
       | 
       | I eventually made it to #4 and got 1000 hits, roughly, with a
       | very slowly decaying tail. I still get a couple referrals a day
       | from PH.
       | 
       | Now the traffic was nice, though temporary.
       | 
       | But I also appreciated it as a an additional reason to get out
       | there shout about my site. I had already announced it on twitter,
       | but this gave the opportunity to spend another day hyping. I made
       | a couple twitter posts as I climbed up, and then a final one when
       | I had reached my peak and the day was over.
       | 
       | But I also reached out individually to many people via DM or
       | email, asking them to upvote me. This was an unique opportunity
       | because it's a less awkward ask than "check out my website and
       | tell me what you think."
       | 
       | This created some nice networking moments and opportunities where
       | I felt like the site got on the radar of a few people in a
       | helpful way, hopefully paving the way for something in the
       | future.
        
       | sdevonoes wrote:
       | From my limited experience, the prototype PH user is someone who
       | is into startups/sass/software/design. If such kind of people are
       | not your target market, then I see no reason to post your product
       | in PH.
        
       | ianbutler wrote:
       | I made it to the front page of ProductHunt twice in the last year
       | and was above the fold for the first product. In that case it
       | drove a couple thousand page views and some signups and for the
       | second it drove like 10 signups and a couple hundred views but
       | the long-term effect in both cases was negligible. For what it's
       | worth it's always cool to see something I've built hit that front
       | page but as far outsized effect and the fact that I've since
       | canned both projects it's not going to make a difference in your
       | viability.
        
       | OJFord wrote:
       | As a consumer/user, I take a ProductHunt logo/link/etc. on a
       | landing page as a negative signal.
        
       | koshersalt wrote:
       | I tried using it a few years ago to find new stuff to use and was
       | turned off by the amount of meaningless, buzzword laden
       | vaporware. I also didn't like the weird long comment chains
       | between the product's founder/cofounders/CTO in an effort to make
       | it look like the page was more active or something. It all felt
       | shallow and like a shinier version of cork board of business
       | cards by the Lowes bathroom
        
       | tnolet wrote:
       | My initial launch on ProductHunt was total and utter _crickets_.
       | Now we have ~500 customers, multiple $100K in ARR and two rounds
       | of venture backing.
       | 
       | Without the humble brag, use a platform like PH as any marketing
       | channel: email, blogs, Twitter etc. Never, EVER think a post on
       | PH will be your defining marketing launch. Just like there is no
       | magic one email, tweet or post that will define your product or
       | make/break you. Expect nothing. The real work begins after
       | launch.
        
       | emdowling wrote:
       | Pre-ProductHunt, HN was the place to launch your product[1].
       | Having a "Show HN" post reach the front page was (is?) the
       | ultimate brag, and founders would always mention it in
       | seed/Series A pitch decks if it had happened to them. Being
       | featured on HN would usually mean being contacted by a TechCrunch
       | reporter, and that was a Big Deal. So, you'd use your personal
       | connections to make sure everyone upvoted your post. If you were
       | all in the same location (eg: co-working space), you'd tell
       | everyone to use a VPN or tether to their phone to avoid being IP-
       | blocked[2].
       | 
       | Then, ProductHunt came along with the pitch to be more curated,
       | and to speficially solve the launch promotion problem. Now,
       | people have figured out how to game it, just like they did with
       | HN.
       | 
       | I fully expect the cycle to continue with a new ProductHunt with
       | the same value proposition. For Web3, Twitter seems to be doing
       | that job pretty well.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | [1] The launch of my own startup
       | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4196585)
       | 
       | [2] Source: I was in 500 Startups Batch 5, and we were all
       | advised on how to upvote each other's HN posts in a way to avoid
       | bans.
        
       | detaro wrote:
       | Echo chamber. Can still be worth it, especially if that's your
       | target market, but don't overinvest effort into it. And don't
       | expect people to think "#1 on product hunt" to be a signal of
       | quality and not of "we couldn't think of anything important to
       | tell you about our product instead". (you occasionally see people
       | try that e.g. on HN. it doesn't work, at all)
        
       | blakesterz wrote:
       | I think you're asking if it's worth to get the things you make on
       | ProductHunt?
       | 
       | I can't answer that, I'm not a creator, but I can answer as a
       | consumer/user/reader of ProductHunt. I get the weekly digest
       | thing and I always read it, and often try things, and share
       | things I see there with other people I know that might find that
       | "new" thing useful. It's really the only thing I follow to find
       | new stuff like that.
        
       | hemmert wrote:
       | On its launch day, I posted my side project to ProductHunt:
       | 
       | https://www.producthunt.com/posts/escape-team
       | 
       | It got #2 Product of the Day, 563 upvotes (its 'GIF trailer'
       | helped a lot, I think!) in total.
       | 
       | It was a great launch, despite the community of PH not being too
       | board game-savvy. It's a good activity for your launch day - I
       | would, however, not link to the PH page directly, but rather make
       | a page on your website that embeds their upvote button:
       | 
       | https://www.escape-team.com/out-now-mission-pack-2
       | 
       | (I did that for the first expansion of Escape Team, which got way
       | less upvotes and traction as you can see, but that might just be
       | the smaller news value of an 'expansion'.)
        
         | hemmert wrote:
         | (Not a single (!) journalist contacted me after Escape Team was
         | #2 Product of the Day. I would have hoped / guessed that do
         | happen, but it didn't.)
        
           | tnolet wrote:
           | Why would a journalist contact you?
        
       | handzhiev wrote:
       | I got a free product featured there recently. Got a lot of
       | traffic but most of it was crap - visits and upvotes without any
       | downloads. And that's for a free product - I guess I would not
       | make any sales if it was paid.
        
       | paraknight wrote:
       | We were #1 product of the day/week on PH and it didn't really
       | bring us a lot of new users (fitness product), but it did bring
       | us a lot of VC attention (that was all-in-all too early).
        
       | alexbouchard wrote:
       | PH takes much more work and strategy but "success" is somewhat
       | deterministic if you did your homework. In our case we saw
       | similar uptake, signups and conversion then ~20h on HN front page
       | over the course of a week. PH had a much higher half-life and we
       | saw stable uptake for a few days while HN was all in the first
       | few hours.
       | 
       | It was definitely worth it for us. Some of our best customers
       | found us on PH and our lead investor first heard of us during our
       | launch and reached out.
       | 
       | For the curious product is https://hookdeck.com
       | 
       | As a PH user thought, I'm not sure how much value you should put
       | in the ranking..
        
       | ushakov wrote:
       | i know i don't need a product when they advertise their
       | ProductHunt rating
       | 
       | it's an echo-chamber of marketers trying to push useless/trivial
       | products for huge subscription fees
       | 
       | if you add your product you'll get emails from people trying to
       | sell you upvotes, then you know how it works
        
       | askcarlos wrote:
       | Seriously, It will depend on the type of product you are
       | realising. My experience is PH have built an experience that
       | forces sign up; therefore, if you don't have an account, your
       | can't upVote; consequently, you will only reach those with an
       | account to your point. I prefer Niche slack/ discord communities
       | where you may know a leader, i.e. for products leaders; I've
       | asked a Fiver freelancer to build a list of all slack communities
       | that fit my product. Without spamming, you will find the
       | connectors and making a list of those may be a better route to
       | distribute your product.
        
       | ajimix wrote:
       | Been in product hunt since it was invite only beta. Things have
       | changed a lot. In the beginning it was a community about hunting
       | great products and nice discoveries.
       | 
       | Nowadays is about paying hunters with a lot of followers to post
       | your products and asking all your network to upvote your product
       | to brag about how you made it to top X of Product Hunt.
       | 
       | The posting about nice products of the internet and discovering
       | them is now gone. If you try to publish something because you
       | found it online and want to share it with the community, but you
       | don't have a network of people to "fakely" upvote it, the product
       | will be hidden at the bottom and nobody will see it.
       | 
       | Discovery and community are gone.
        
         | arisAlexis wrote:
         | Paying?
        
         | nopenopenopeno wrote:
         | About a decade ago, I started a few side businesses that I
         | believe, in retrospect, were entirely reliant on a few of my
         | personal connections with associates of popular blogs, most
         | notably Hypebeast.
         | 
         | Startup culture refers to this loss of curation as
         | "democratization" which is a cynical gesture that really just
         | means replacing things like person connections with a 'highest
         | spender' promotion industry that is even more dishonest than
         | the curation model. Neither model is democratic in any sense.
        
           | aspenmayer wrote:
           | > Startup culture refers to this loss of curation as
           | "democratization" which is a cynical gesture that really just
           | means replacing things like person connections with a
           | 'highest spender' promotion industry that is even more
           | dishonest than the curation model. Neither model is
           | democratic in any sense.
           | 
           | For a second there I thought you were talking about the
           | crypto and NFT space. Still accurate.
        
           | specialist wrote:
           | Yup. "Pay to play."
        
         | steelstraw wrote:
         | Is there anything they could do to fix this?
        
           | antupis wrote:
           | Start new community around new products.
        
           | anyfactor wrote:
           | Worked in a social media startup , want to build one too. My
           | opinion -
           | 
           | - High level human moderation.
           | 
           | - Country based communities
           | 
           | - Actually creating services around the community to justify
           | a subscription to participate model. You can't build any
           | community where people without stake in it, gets to control
           | it.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | But this comes with the obvious problem of, this won't never
           | work. People won't simply signup because there is so much
           | loops to jump through to say something freely.
        
           | ushakov wrote:
           | implement voting ring detection like on HN
        
             | akadeb wrote:
             | so that highlights content that has been upvoted by the
             | majority?
        
         | anyfactor wrote:
         | I used to be active in various startup subreddits. 2 years ago,
         | I will get 2-3 requests per month to upvote their product.
         | Those requests even though against producthunt's TOS seemed
         | decent and was backed by real people.
         | 
         | Last year I was geting 1-3 spams per week on reddit. They were
         | literally zero karma same day accounts. And those products were
         | hitting top 5 of the day and staying there. Generic newsletter
         | services and repurposed ideas with an SAAS branding.
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | I get the impression that _almost every time_ a product-rating
       | service becomes highly popular, it get coopted (or at least
       | seriously compromised) by sellers. E.g., Amazon reviews, and This
       | Old House (Bob Villa).
       | 
       | The only exceptions I can think of are Consumer Reports, and
       | probably large newspapers. But I cringe that even relatively
       | trusted sources like Reddit, Home Depot customer reviews, and
       | RTings are doomed to this fate.
       | 
       | Is this simply as inevitable as death and taxes? Or is there some
       | reason to hope for progress?
        
         | andrewmcwatters wrote:
         | This seems like a game theory problem, doesn't it?
        
       | almogbaku wrote:
        
       | petilon wrote:
       | Posting on ProductHunt, if you're a small company, can be
       | harmful. Program Managers of big companies prowl this site,
       | looking for interesting ideas to copy.
        
         | brianwawok wrote:
         | If the only value of your business is an idea to add on to
         | another business that is trivial to copy, rather you get shut
         | down sooner than later.
        
           | petilon wrote:
           | Timing matters. A big company can snuff out a small
           | competitor if they respond quickly, before the small
           | competitor gets a chance to take root. Once it takes root it
           | is harder to snuff out. So it makes sense to stay out of
           | sight of big competitors until you have had a chance to
           | establish.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | No.
        
         | autonomousErwin wrote:
         | Is that a "No" to "Is Product Hunt worth it?" or a "No" to
         | "it's a pyramidal echo chamber..."?
        
           | qbasic_forever wrote:
           | Yes.
        
           | underyx wrote:
           | It's a "No" to "Did you care to read the discussion and make
           | a meaningful contribution?"
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | Not worth it. You get a tiny number of visits (compared to
           | what you need to make a viable marketing plan.) The people
           | who visit are interested in their own products, not in yours.
           | 
           | If your product was something that guaranteed some other
           | product could get a handful of visits from Product Hunt that
           | would be a good product for Product Hunt.
        
       | hammyhavoc wrote:
       | Not used it in years, conversion rate fell. Eventually ended up
       | much like SoundCloud where it's mainly creators rather than
       | consumers.
        
       | pictur wrote:
       | Since producthunt first came out, it's a weird community with
       | just people clapping. I don't really understand what it does
       | exactly
        
         | ushakov wrote:
         | yeah right, it's like founder's church
         | 
         | when you launch everyone claps and congratulates
        
       | bze12 wrote:
       | A lot of startup/indie people take product hunt as false
       | validation. It's only worth it if you're launching a tool for
       | startups or remote work or something like that, anything else
       | you're just getting a false positive signal from early tech
       | adopters. PH also lacks the sometimes brutal, honest feedback
       | that HN has.
        
       | replwoacause wrote:
       | Most of the comments on I see on Product Hunt look like they were
       | paid for, are made in broken English, and sometimes don't make
       | any sense. I don't trust what I see there.
        
       | askcarlos wrote:
       | No
        
       | kmckiern wrote:
       | Who is your ideal user? Do you think this person frequents
       | ProductHunt? That's your answer.
       | 
       | My experience is that the main users of PH are those launching a
       | product.
       | 
       | I'll also add: after my PH launch, I experienced a lot of email
       | spam from "growth hacker" types. I suspect they scrape PH. I
       | tried to take down our post (because the spam was overwhelming),
       | but PH refused.
        
       | chuinard wrote:
       | It's probably more worth it than Hacker News. I submitted my new
       | site Cancel Culture Live (cancelculturelive.com) yesterday
       | evening and it was just removed. Months working on a new shiny
       | webapp, it starts getting a few upvotes and traction on HN, only
       | to be removed?
        
         | NicoJuicy wrote:
         | 'Cancel culture' is a political thing and against the
         | guidelines, since it could create flame wars and unwanted
         | discussions that are rarely useful:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
         | 
         | So it's more about the related topic than the webapp itselve.
         | It's always been that way fyi
        
       | jabo wrote:
       | Unlike HN, Product Hunt explicitly encourages posters to go out
       | and ask their network to upvote. This one key aspect makes
       | ProductHunt much less meritocratic IMO and just a mirror of how
       | large the poster's network is.
       | 
       | So I've stopped paying too much attention if a product claims
       | they made it to #1 product of the day/week/month on ProductHunt.
        
       | Julesman wrote:
       | For an industry centered on innovation it is possible to be in a
       | dry period where there are just too many people trying to make
       | the 'latest thing' using older things. New tech tends to show up
       | and keep things interesting.
        
       | sto_hristo wrote:
       | Yes it is. It helped me discover the "New mac smell" candle. It
       | improved my life and helped me reach perfect nirvana well before
       | the 40-45 hours if its burn time.
       | 
       | This message has been written from across the Universe at the
       | Heavenly plane.
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | its just a massive pyramid scheme. everybody goes there to vote,
       | and roll the dice on getting the #1 tag for fake social proof.
       | its useful for social proof insofar as the vast majority of
       | people dont know that product hunt is fake.
       | 
       | semi related fun fact, i had a friend run the numbers for fun -
       | 8% of "#1 of the day" winners die within a year of launch
       | https://twitter.com/jakobgreenfeld/status/146816583831853875...
        
         | s_severus wrote:
         | I spent ~3 years building a product before launching on PH.
         | It's a real product with an existing community of (at the time)
         | around 1k on Slack and real companies using it. Got ~80 up
         | votes and finished the day somewhere around position 10. I was
         | moderately happy with it.
         | 
         | Around the same time, a known smooth-talking vaporware peddlar
         | in the same industry launched on PH with literally a bare GH
         | repo and a minimal landing page. I knew 100% that there was no
         | actual usable product. The founder had recently been involved
         | in a similar project that collapsed under huge promises. He got
         | hundreds of upvotes and plenty of "awesome product, LFG man!!!"
         | type comments.
         | 
         | That's the moment I really understood PH.
        
         | tjs8rj wrote:
         | I don't think there's much that can be taken from that. There's
         | a lot of reasons products die within a year, the non-product
         | hunt #1 rate is probably much much higher. People post products
         | on there all the time that aren't meant to be some startup in
         | the first place
        
       | WHA8m wrote:
       | Idk, but I don't like the sentiment there. It's nothing like HN.
       | And all the emoji cluster everywhere... bah. This stuff puts me
       | off immediately.
        
         | IceCoffe wrote:
         | I agree here, one thing to note is that I can never find any
         | good constructive criticism.
        
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