[HN Gopher] Tell HN: Full macOS reinstall because Apple ID
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Tell HN: Full macOS reinstall because Apple ID
Hello! Just wanted to share what just happened to me, maybe some
Apple SWE here can take a look at this. I recently changed my
macbook and created a new Apple ID for the new machine. For work, I
like to have a unique ID and not reuse old ones. The problem is
that, today, after 2 days of "use" (the first time the laptop is
charged is to reinstall everything), Apple decided without
notification that my account should be blocked for "security
reasons". I tried to reset my password, but they blocked the whole
account, it seems to me that they even deleted the account from the
database as they could not locate the ID of other information
(name, mail, etc.). Coming from another OS, one can imagine that
you can swap two IDs and continue, but ... NO! Here you need to
provide a password to log out, but since my account has been
deleted, I don't have any password. Also, one can imagine that a
+2000$ machine designed for "professional" users can actually
recover from these types of errors using magic links or text
messages. They wanted me to wait for an appointment with the
service. Just to reset an account!! Why did I reinstall all? Every
30 seconds, a message appears asking me to check the ID. TL;DR:
Adult human crying.
Author : adabaed
Score : 285 points
Date : 2022-01-08 11:26 UTC (11 hours ago)
| heisenbit wrote:
| Related AppleID nightmare. FIL forgot his password & recovery
| questions and when migrating his iPhone to a new one I did an
| encryped backup/restore and it resulted in the new iPhone also
| getting that broken AppleID. Unfortunately find my iPhone was
| active on the old one and now the new was was unusable and also
| could not be reset. Panic...
|
| Finally recovered on some old backup his password but without the
| second factor it was impossible to get full control of the
| account. So I disabled FindMyIPhone, wiped the phone and set up a
| new AppleId and restored from a not encrypted backup.
|
| Everything worked for a while until the old apps needed updating
| (Whatsapp...) and the iPhone asked for the password for the Apple
| Store. Now the new password did not work. Took us ages to figure
| out that it was asking for the old appleid password - iOS
| remembers with which account an app was bought but it does not
| tell you what AppleID it asks the password for when trying to
| update.
| young_unixer wrote:
| Thank god I don't use Apple products.
| mlindner wrote:
| New machine in what way? You bought from a retailer or apple? Was
| it perhaps a re-sold but brand new stolen device?
| adabaed wrote:
| New from Apple store.
| drglitch wrote:
| This reads like a machine that has DEP enabled and getting locked
| remotely ;)
|
| On a more serious note, I ran macs on multiple occasions without
| an AppleID - it presents maybe one nag a month, usually when you
| accidentally open "Messages".
|
| Microsoft, sadly, has also been increasingly more annoying with
| pushing online accounts on people's machines lately.
| lathiat wrote:
| Apple is doing the same now :/ the wizard tries hard for you
| not to
| asvitkine wrote:
| My experience is that the popup appears every time I unlock the
| computer, but it's not modal / blocking, so can be ignored but
| really annoying.
| petemc_ wrote:
| I had a Ship of Theseus moment after getting my laptop repaired
| by Apple. They pretty much had to replace everything except for
| the bottom case, so when I went to sign in with my apple id I got
| a message saying "we have sent a message to your other device".
| But there was no other device. Took over a month to resolve and I
| also kept getting the annoying pop up message asking me to check
| the ID.
| throwoutway wrote:
| How did you resolve it?
| glacials wrote:
| Another problem Apple engineers can be blind to -- only having
| one Apple device.
| adabaed wrote:
| Update: Finally I reinstalled everything without the ID and is
| working just fine, I'll use my personal Apple ID to download
| Xcode and I'm never going to create a new one again.. Thank you
| so much for your comments!
| rsync wrote:
| Wait, you need an apple ID to download xcode ?
|
| I thought there was a quick, scriptable command-line method of
| downloading xcode: xcode-select --install
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| It used to be that you could download Xcode outside of the
| App Store, or without an Apple ID, but it seems that they
| have changed this.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| Maybe consider not buying Apple again since their products
| refuse to allow you to live your lifestyle of separating work
| and personal life.
| [deleted]
| tokamak-teapot wrote:
| They do. I have an Apple ID for work and one for non-work.
| causality0 wrote:
| This is why I absolutely refuse to have anything but a local
| account on my primary desktop. My computer belongs to _me_ , not
| some sociopathic megacorp in California.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| .... or Redmond.
| jollybean wrote:
| Leave them an invoice for reimbursing them for your time wasted
| etc..
|
| We need to normalize this.
|
| Every time they pull some shenanigan on you - invoice them.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| Login with the original Apple ID you had on the device on
| iCloud.com and check if the device is still associated with that
| Apple ID. If so, leave it for now. Then setup a support contact
| session with that same Apple ID with Apple at support.apple.com,
| and tell them to help with your secondary account issue. Once
| support says it's okay, remove the device from the original Apple
| ID; it'll automatically get added to your second work one when
| you login during OOBE.
|
| After support clears up any issues with the second account,
| reinstall macOS on the device with Internet Recovery.[0]
|
| [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904
| adabaed wrote:
| The computer is brand new. No previus ID used.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| Then you have fewer steps to complete. I must have misread
| your OP; I apologize.
|
| Having a working personal Apple ID should help facilitate
| reaching Apple Support quicker, but you don't need a working
| Apple ID to use the support site, or to receive support over
| the phone or in person at an Apple Store.
|
| Even quicker still may be using the iOS Apple Support app if
| you have an iOS device handy. Doesn't even have to be yours,
| you could borrow a friend's. In my experience, setting an
| appointment on the support site is very quick and easy with
| callbacks under a minute being normal for me.
|
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apple-support/id1130498044
| adabaed wrote:
| The question is why I need to spent my time going to apple
| support for resetting a simple account. This is 2022.
| Authenticator apps, sms, magic links. Why I need to call
| them, or even ask for an appointment. They just blocked my
| account for no reason. If this seems reasonable to any of
| you... I feel I stole my own computer!
| reaperducer wrote:
| _This is 2022. Authenticator apps, sms, magic links. Why
| I need to call them, or even ask for an appointment._
|
| It's inconvenient, but life is inconvenient. Such is the
| way of the world.
|
| While it's true that this sort of thing shouldn't happen,
| your comments here seem to indicate that your big
| blocking point is that you don't want to talk to a human
| being. You want 2FA or magic links or some tech-focused
| hands-off method of resolving your problem.
|
| Real life isn't like that. Sometimes you actually HAVE to
| go down to the DMV, or the post office, or the county
| clerk, or the returns counter at the store. The world is
| not the ideal tech utopia that the SV bubble has sold us.
| It's still run by wetware. Sometimes you have to just go
| through the motions instead of having a hissy fit on
| social media.
| mastax wrote:
| Isn't owning a Premium Apple Product supposed to be
| convenient and not like going to the DMV?
| KiDD wrote:
| You don't even need to own an Apple product to create an
| AppleID.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| Yeah, I know. I feel for you. This sucks! So what is
| going on here?!
|
| Someone may have owned or used the computer before you,
| even if you bought it "new." It might have been purchased
| and returned and resold as new without your knowledge,
| and not properly removed from a prior associated Apple
| ID, perhaps. It might have been purchased fraudulently by
| this hypothetical prior owner. Or your purchase may have
| been flagged as fraud post-sale by the vendor for unknown
| or no reason, and reported to Apple as stolen by said
| vendor.
|
| Apple will be able to help you with any of these
| concerns, if you are the legitimate owner. I don't mean
| to offend, or to imply or to suggest you are not. All
| Apple needs to prove ownership is a picture of your
| receipt or a screenshot of the invoice if purchased
| online, whether from Apple or a third party.
| KermitTheFrog wrote:
| You right. And one of the possible Apple's reason is that
| this MacBook may be stolen(from the store or reseller).
| In this case Apple ask for proofs of purchase.
| newman8r wrote:
| > All Apple needs to prove ownership is a picture of your
| receipt or a screenshot of the invoice if purchased
| online, whether from Apple or a third party.
|
| If that's true, couldn't someone just print out a fake
| invoice, with no way for them to verify it either way?
| RKearney wrote:
| I've never seen invoices or receipts without some kind of
| unique identifier on them that could then be verified. My
| receipts from Chipotle are even uniquely identified by
| the store number, register number, date, and incrementing
| order number for the day.
| [deleted]
| znpy wrote:
| And you're paying good money in hardware, developer fees and app
| store fees for this.
|
| I just can't understand how people actively choose to endure into
| this situation.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| Because apart from this, MacOS is an excellent operating system
| that "just works" for most people, and Apple's hardware is
| excellent.
| adabaed wrote:
| Market economy.
| fortran77 wrote:
| You're right! We need to get rid of this "market economy" and
| have an official Government laptop assigned to us.
| adabaed wrote:
| Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of capitalism in general.
| jevoten wrote:
| Can someone explain for those of us less familiar with Apple -
| can a Macbook not be used without a valid Apple ID, that Apple
| can revoke at any time?
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| You can use one without an Apple ID. I think the issue here is
| that once OP logged in, the computer recognized that an Apple
| ID was associated with the computer, but there was no way to
| remove it without the password, which was impossible because
| the account had been deleted
| ravenstine wrote:
| I haven't used an Apple ID with my MacBook for several years
| now. Never had an issue. Life is just fine without the Apple
| cloud.
| olalonde wrote:
| Unfortunately some software (e.g. WireGuard) can only be
| installed through the app store, which requires an Apple ID.
| amenghra wrote:
| From the wireguard install page: $ brew
| install wireguard-tools
|
| Or $ port install wireguard-tools
|
| You could also just compile it yourself.
| olalonde wrote:
| That installs the CLI, the WireGuard GUI app is only
| available on the app store. Same for Outline (another
| VPN).
| morganvachon wrote:
| If that's the case then the GUI app isn't open source and
| is a completely different product from the CLI version,
| and differently licensed. If the CLI version can't do
| everything the GUI version can, I'd be keen to move to a
| more open and honest platform, especially for something
| as personal as a VPN.
| wyclif wrote:
| They are not the same things. The App Store Wireguard
| does not support certain directives that are included in
| the CLI version (see my comment further up the thread).
| wyclif wrote:
| Note that the command line interface for Wireguard is not
| optional on the server, the Wireguard App on the App Store
| is not sufficient for managing a Wireguard server due to
| macOS's sandbox restrictions. (Specifically, the PostUp and
| PostDown directives are not supported in the App Store's
| Wireguard App).
| [deleted]
| lozenge wrote:
| If you change your Apple password, the system goes insane with
| the reauthentication prompts and the only way to fix is to
| enter a password (or create a new user account). I don't know
| which optional service it is exactly - could be iCloud sync,
| iTunes, App Store, Find My, etc. The same happens on
| iPhones/iPads when you change your Apple password from another
| computer.
|
| However, the Mac is still usable and they can reboot into
| Recovery mode to download and re-install the OS. Not sure about
| Find My (for iPad/iPhone), as it's an anti-theft feature it
| can't be disabled or factory reset.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > If you change your Apple password, the system goes insane
| with the reauthentication prompts and the only way to fix is
| to enter a password (or create a new user account).
|
| Weird. I rotate my password on a regular basis and I've never
| had this happen. I wonder what service triggers it for you.
| olliej wrote:
| While using your appleid as your system login?
| philistine wrote:
| I'd check using these steps (https://support.apple.com/en-
| us/HT202860) to see if you can reset your password using your
| Apple ID. If you can, then I'd recommend turning it off.
| mattl wrote:
| You don't need an Apple ID to use a Mac. However downloading
| apps from the App Store requires one.
|
| You can also log into the OS with an Apple ID but also not
| required.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| You can also use a local non-Apple ID account to login, and
| selectively login to only the Apple services and apps you
| need or want, including App Store.
| sturza wrote:
| You can set it up without an Apple ID.
| blondin wrote:
| i doubt it.
|
| i recently walked a friend through setting up a their MacBook
| Air M1. and, like you said, i told them to skip setting an
| Apple ID. that it was not necessary.
|
| but the first setup doesn't allow you to skip. or didn't make
| it obvious how to do so. (dark pattern?)
|
| i suppose one could use keyboard shortcuts, or install in
| safe mode, etc... but for the regular users won't be able to
| skip that step.
| JimDabell wrote:
| > but the first setup doesn't allow you to skip. or didn't
| make it obvious how to do so. (dark pattern?)
|
| It does allow you to skip, and it is obvious.
|
| There's a screen asking you to log in to your Apple ID.
| There's a button that says "Set up later". When you click
| it, it asks you if you are sure. You confirm. That's all.
|
| Here are the screenshots:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/2s3sA2L.png
|
| https://i.imgur.com/wU0GU5l.png
| lathiat wrote:
| You can definitely still do it but like windows now the
| button is like off to the bottom left somewhere and hard to
| find.
| reaperducer wrote:
| I've set up two new M1 machines in my household in the last
| two months without Apple ID. Everything is fine. No dark
| patterns. No unskippable prompts.
| sneak wrote:
| It does allow you to skip, but you're right that it's a
| dark pattern. Apple really wants you to be on board with
| their network services, because Apple 3.0 wants recurring
| services revenue like a crackhead wants crack.
| chipotle_coyote wrote:
| > Apple 3.0 wants recurring services revenue like a
| crackhead wants crack
|
| While this is true (to my increasing chagrin), having an
| Apple ID in and of itself doesn't cost you anything. It
| _does_ create an account that you can then tie charges
| to.
|
| I don't, however, recall this quite rising to the level
| of what I'd call a "dark pattern"; IIRC when I set up my
| M1 MacBook Air not that long ago, the "Enter your Apple
| ID" had a "Skip this step" link that was pretty easy to
| find.
| Terretta wrote:
| On Macbook the "Set Up Later" is lower left of the dialog
| box, so it does require swiveling your eyeballs in their
| sockets until your attention lands 2 inches from center.
| Kind of an off-white pattern, maybe?
| grishka wrote:
| I did set up my M1 Max without an apple id. I logged into
| the app store later, but I didn't log into the _system
| itself_ and double checked that all cloud services were
| disabled.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| You can use it just fine, you just can't access icloud, and app
| store. But it's possible OP had his account tied to icloud and
| possibly his macbook encrypted to that, so that he couldn't log
| in or something.
| 35mm_guy wrote:
| You can use it fine without an Apple ID and you also get
| security updates for the installed OS (they do not require to
| be signed in)
|
| The AppleID you use is used for the AppStore and iCloud (you
| can use different ones and to some extend multiple ones).
| Usually you create an additional AppleID for just
| buying/downloading sofware from the AppStore, just like you
| would do on Android or the Microsoft store. Same deal here. And
| use a different iCloud account, if you want to use any of it's
| offerings.
|
| If an account is locked or disasbled you usually just reset the
| password as one of both is usually done on suspicious login
| attempts.
|
| Never heard of what the OP descibes, unless it is a pre-owned
| device still associated with a different account or some
| enterprise management profile in installed. Both should not be
| the case if he just bought it from Apple directly.
|
| In any case sounds more like an issue with the device itself
| than the AppleID. But I can just speculate here, which is ofc
| not helpful for the OP.
| philistine wrote:
| You're speculating a bit too much. The problem is with _Allow
| Apple ID to reset your password_. If this is enabled, Apple
| basically gets the ability to lock you out of your computer.
|
| For this reason, I always leave it off, and recommend
| everybody does the same.
| nfoz wrote:
| In another light, automatic security updates also gives
| Apple the ability to lock you out of your computer.
| afandian wrote:
| It can, you just have to reject the pushy signup screens on
| startup.
|
| Can it be kept updated with system updates? Don't know any
| more.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| Automatic updates or manual updates to macOS do not require
| login with Apple ID. You don't even need original Mac
| hardware, as is the case with hackintoshes and virtual
| machines, although full backups before installing a macOS
| version upgrade is advised in the case of non-genuine
| hardware.
| mlindner wrote:
| There's no connection to an Apple ID unless you want it. You
| don't need to connect it to any Apple ID to use it. You can
| change the Apple ID at any time.
| j1elo wrote:
| It's a bit like an Android phone: you can use it perfectly
| fine, but the Play Store requires you to log into a Google
| account before letting you install apps.
|
| At least, on Android you can use the Aurora store, or install
| .apk files manually... but that's another story.
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| You can install apps fine on a Mac without an Apple ID; just
| not from Apple's own App Store.
| ___q wrote:
| It took _two weeks_ for my Apple ID email reset email to arrive.
| Since then I 've learned to never use it for anything. I'm sorry
| for your loss.
| hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
| A regular reminder about the gradual but steady shift from open
| computing to devices that you think you own but in fact it feels
| closer to renting, and the manufacturer has more and more tight
| control over it.
| pshirshov wrote:
| Oh, that's nothing new. In 2017 one of my colleagues got his
| account banned afterehe moved to a different country, he tried to
| talk with Apple over phone and ask why, they told him "you know
| why". He didn't know though.
|
| edit: Just to clarify, I'm sure that it was a false-positive and
| Apple mishandled the situation in the worst manner possible.
| Don't trust Apple your money and data.
| parentheses wrote:
| by that token, don't trust any business. i don't but i feel
| there's a balance of ideal security/cost and ideal convenience.
| apple is not bad for that balance. compared to a lot of
| companies.
|
| not a fanboy though i may sound like one. don't get me wrong. i
| have my fair share of gripes with apple, but the way apple id
| makes my life better is not a bad trade off.
| willis936 wrote:
| I wonder what they saw on their screen. Maybe it was nothing
| and the tech just enjoyed being unhelpful and was maybe
| rewarded for it. Maybe it was flagged by NSA heuristics and
| there was an "untrustworthy" message.
| pshirshov wrote:
| Nope, the guy said that "yes, the appleid is banned, you know
| why, you breached our T&Cs, no you can't restore it". He
| rejected to specify what rule exactly was breached.
| DarylZero wrote:
| "HIPAA legally bars me from specifying which rule was
| broken."
| rectang wrote:
| That seems like a strange analogy, since as far as I know
| HIPAA is designed to prevent sharing private data with
| outsiders and should not prevent you from accessing your
| own data.
|
| I've heard plenty about how HIPAA gets in the way of
| legitimate sharing with outsiders (e.g. making a common
| format for medical profile transfer impractical), but I
| don't recall having heard about it preventing the
| principal individual from getting answers from their own
| provider.
| runjake wrote:
| OP is making a joke. HIPAA only applies to healthcare
| providers (so far as I understand from our lawyers).
|
| Edit: Why in the hell is my iPhone erroneously
| autocorrecting HIPAA to HIPPA?
| ohyeshedid wrote:
| > Edit: Why in the hell is my iPhone erroneously
| autocorrecting HIPAA to HIPPA?
|
| Crowd-sourced autocorrect dictionary on display. :\
| mouzogu wrote:
| NSA heuristics? :D Do they put the Max in the M1 Max
| ARandomerDude wrote:
| What country? Are we taking Iran or Canada?
| softwarebeware wrote:
| um, I live in Seattle and I can tell you that even from here
| there's constant new news of organized crime, cartels, and
| terrorist organizations operating out of Canada.
| mthoms wrote:
| Organized crime, sure. But what terrorist organizations are
| you referring to? I live in Vancouver and have not heard of
| anything notable in this regard.
| softwarebeware wrote:
| Yeah I agree that's definitely less frequent. You can
| check here for listed terrorist entities with active
| presence in Canada:
| https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-
| trrrsm/lst...
| mthoms wrote:
| Wait, the claim you made was "constant" news of terrorist
| organizations _operating out of Canada_. The list you
| cited was the Canadian governments ' list of _global_
| entities that are designated as terrorist organizations
| and NOT those with an "active presence". (Tip: The US
| list is almost, if not entirely, identical).
|
| Can you cite any "news" you've heard in Seattle about
| terrorist organizations operating out of Canada?
| pshirshov wrote:
| From Poland to Ireland.
| softwarebeware wrote:
| Funny story, I once knew a guy who had a very common Irish
| name (both first and last). He was from California though
| (born and raised). When it came time to renew his passport,
| the government mistook him for someone involved in the IRA.
| He actually had to ship thirty pounds of documentation
| including as mundane of items as report cards, school id's,
| all job paystubs, etc. -- basically document his entire
| life as a US citizen before he finally received approval.
| rvba wrote:
| Gerry Adams?
|
| Ah, you wrote about someone involved with the IRA, so
| probably some other name.
| csomar wrote:
| Ireland... that's quite similar to "Iranland". That must be
| the problem.
| behnamoh wrote:
| What's wrong with Iran? Last I checked it's a beautiful
| country with nice and educated people.
| olalonde wrote:
| Apple is forbidden from doing business in Iran.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran
| behnamoh wrote:
| But its devices can still be used anywhere in the world,
| even if the company doesn't do business in certain
| places.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| And with a theocratic government, that wants to wipe out
| another country and whose former president denied the
| holocaust ever happened.
|
| All the iranians I met in person, were lovely people,
| though .
| gitgrump wrote:
| I meeeaan, "wants to wipe out another country" and
| "former president denied the Holocaust ever happened" can
| apply to a surprising number of places.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| We were talking about governments, not individuals or
| radical groups. And in that group, the iranian leadership
| stands out a bit. I am not aware of any other country who
| makes such open statements.
| pwinnski wrote:
| As an American, I think it unwise to label an entire
| country and people on the basis of how theocratic their
| government is, their military ambitions, or the personal
| views of former presidents. Please.
| otterley wrote:
| America has a lot of religious nuts who influence
| politics, but it is not a theocracy. We do not have a
| "supreme leader" who is both head of the Government (if
| not formally, but practically) and head of the official
| state religion. Our Constitution provides for religious
| freedom but otherwise says nothing about religion.
| pshirshov wrote:
| Not funny when you lose your music and software worth
| several hundred euros.
| theplumber wrote:
| It's part of the walled garden's feature set. Let's hope
| more of this happens and people start asking for their
| digital rights(i.e drm free media,hardware etc)
| kome wrote:
| That will teach people not to "buy" stuff you don't
| really own. Piracy o streaming are better solution. DRM
| is ethically and technologically bankrupt.
| daneel_w wrote:
| With Apple you have since many years now (10 years or
| so?) been able to download an unencrypted DRM-free copy
| of every audio track you ever bought in the iTunes Store.
| It's clearly to no consolation for OP, but it's worth
| pointing this fact out nevertheless.
| throwhauser wrote:
| > Not funny when you lose your music and software worth
| several hundred euros.
|
| Indeed. I never spent much money on Apple media or
| applications, but in the last few years I've spent
| nothing.
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| >when you lose your
|
| It was never yours. Buy music from Bandcamp and save it
| on your hard drive. _That_ is yours.
| gruez wrote:
| >Buy music from Bandcamp and save it on your hard drive.
| That is yours
|
| but itunes music is DRM-free as well?
| dwighttk wrote:
| You would only lose access to music not saved in an
| accessible location (and purchased after DRM was removed
| unless you took the steps to get drm free tracks[1]) and
| also software bought on the App Store.
|
| [1]funny story: I have one (or more) tracks in my music
| library that a friend shared with me almost 20 years ago
| when we were in college and he added me as one of the 5
| computers that could play the tracks. Every time I've
| moved my library to a new computer it asks me to log into
| that account to approve that track, but it won't give me
| a list of the tracks so I can delete it/them. It isn't
| enough of an annoyance that I've tried too hard to find
| them.
| diffeomorphism wrote:
| Are you sure? Legally speaking you might be required to
| delete it then.
|
| https://xkcd.com/488/
| daneel_w wrote:
| You can download a DRM-free copy of any audio track you
| bought in the iTunes Store. It's been like that for
| around 10 years.
| interestica wrote:
| No no. A land of ire. Seems apt here.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| > Are we taking Iran or Canada?
|
| What is this? Some kind of Axis of Sanity?
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| I think the question is relevant, certain countries are
| under sanctions and could make a lot of things complex for
| those operating services.
| tobiasbischoff wrote:
| Lol, WTF. "Full macOS reinstall because of dude has no idea how
| to use a computer"
|
| You can always just boot into single user and create a new local
| admin account, a matter of minutes.
| gus_massa wrote:
| It's probably not deleted, just marked as blocked. I didn't heard
| too many horror stories about Apple, so you many be lucky. With
| other big companies "deleted" and "blocked forever" means
| "blocked untill you make a big enough mess". Try posting in
| tweeter.
|
| Do you have an screenshot and a photo of the bricked macbook? It
| adds a lot of realism to the complain.
|
| Anecdote time: My wife bought a new Android phone and gave me her
| older phone. After a factory reset, the old phone asked for her
| gmail account before I could add my gmail account. It's a nice
| anti thief feature, but it surprised me a lot!!! (What happens if
| you want to sell a used phone?)
| Oxodao wrote:
| There is no issue to sell a used phone as long as the original
| owner removes ALL Google account BEFORE doing the factory
| reset. In that case you won't be asked to log in.
|
| Yet this is still safe as you need your unlock code to remove
| an account, even if the phone is already unlocked
| zinekeller wrote:
| The problem stems from users just pressing the "reset" button
| without removing their accounts first. I think that
| Microsoft's approach here (Refresh your PC without affecting
| your files, Remove everything and reinstall Windows) is
| better, because it tells you what exactly will happen. On
| "Remove everything and reinstall Windows", it'll ask you if
| you're simply resetting it for yourself or if you're selling
| or disposing that computer (the difference here for almost
| all computers is a zeroing disk wipe).
| adabaed wrote:
| Blame the designer not the user.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| This is resolved on iOS by turning off Find My before doing
| factory reset. On macOS devices, you need to remove it from
| your device list on iCloud.com after factory reset, as well
| as turning off Find My, if applicable.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| > Yet this is still safe as you need your unlock code to
| remove an account, even if the phone is already unlocked
|
| The word "unlocked" in the context of phones usually implies
| the lack of a carrier lock on the device as originally
| manufactured and sold. It is not precisely correct to refer
| to phones originally locked to a carrier as unlocked when
| offering them for sale without disclosing any original
| carrier lock, as there are differences in supported frequency
| bands depending on the jurisdiction the phone was sold in
| that may make it incompatible with some carriers, whereas
| "factory unlocked" phones of the same model are usually world
| band phones and support all common carrier frequencies.
|
| To recap: it's fine to refer to phones which have had an
| unlock code applied to them as unlocked. To differentiate
| phones which came unlocked when originally manufactured, this
| second group of phones is referred to as "factory unlocked."
|
| Sorry to be pendantic, and this isn't directed at OP. Most of
| this is inside baseball and is only important when buying or
| selling phones secondhand, in order to make sure the new
| owner is able to use their phone on a different carrier than
| the prior owner.
|
| -
|
| All of the above is separate to anti-theft locks which are
| supported by Android and iOS devices, which must be removed
| before sale in order for the new owner to associate the
| device with their own personal Google or Apple account,
| respectively.
| Oxodao wrote:
| My bad! This is indeed what I meant, not native english
| speaker, in french we use the same term for both meanings
| LoneWolf wrote:
| what? I did factory resets on multiple android phones and
| EVERYTHING gets wiped even Google accounts, does not ask for
| anything just setup like new.
| Oxodao wrote:
| This used to be the case, I'm not sure since when nor if
| that's how it works on every android phone as every
| manufacturer customize its own OS. I'm pretty sure this has
| happened to me on my OnePlus 3T and it definitly happened
| on my OnePlus 6. This is a bit problematic as my Google
| account has a generated password in my password manager, if
| I forget to remove it before doing a factory reset, I
| usually change my password for a simpler one until I have
| bitwarden installed back on the phone after the reset
| Nginx487 wrote:
| anaisbetts wrote:
| It's a new machine, and it doesn't work. What do you do when you
| buy something and it breaks? Return it and ask for another one.
| egberts1 wrote:
| maxwell86 wrote:
| Nah. Your work data is on the laptop, clock the hours it is
| locked, and calculate the maximum potential damage. Sue via
| your consumer association.
|
| Apple can lock you out of your laptop, but if that causes
| damages to your well-being, your business, etc. you can sue.
|
| They can write whatever they want on their T&C, that doesn't
| make it enforceable.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Apple can also make it absolute hell to use any of their
| products. I wouldn't pick a fight with a 3 trillion dollar
| corporation.
| Vaslo wrote:
| Are there examples of this?
| mlindner wrote:
| I'm confused by this. You don't use your Apple ID to log into
| your computer. There is no Apple ID used to log into your
| computer.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| No, you can opt to login with your AppleID instead of a machine
| specific password. I never would, but that is an option.
| mlindner wrote:
| Oh really, they must have added that recently. But I didn't
| even see it as an option when I bought this M1 mac. It must
| have been buried somewhere.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| Yeah, I don't remember when it was added and I think the
| interface to that option has changed over time. There is
| also an option (SysPref->Users) to authenticate a Mac
| password change with your AppleID. Different option but the
| net effect is the same.
| eole666 wrote:
| Just stop using Apple products. You'll be fine. You'll be free.
| emsy wrote:
| No, we need stronger customer protection. Other companies have
| similar fuck-ups and we shouldn't be okay with it depending on
| whether we like the company that did it. And yes, I know Linux
| exists, but I'll be in an even greater world of pain if my
| parents will need support for their Linux machines.
| tomxor wrote:
| Also please stop funding them.
|
| i.e Do not buy an M1 for Linux, this still funds Apple to do
| more of this shit.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| I agree broadly with the sentiment, but this isn't very helpful
| to OP.
| pietrovismara wrote:
| Why not? Sell your overpriced mac and buy a new better non-
| apple laptop for less money. It It would have been faster
| than trying to deal with apple's customer support.
| gherkinnn wrote:
| For all the downsides to macbooks, and those do exist,
| every alternative I came across is unbearable.
|
| So yes, these comments are unhelpful.
| Closi wrote:
| > buy a new better non-apple laptop for less money.
|
| This isn't as easy as it used to be - the performance of
| the new M1 Mac's is pretty great compared to the
| competition at a similar price point (especially
| considering the form factor).
|
| They aren't really overpriced anymore (although it does
| depend on what you value). I've not seen another laptop I
| would trade in for my 16GB M1 Macbook Air at the same price
| point, even a year on.
| bragh wrote:
| What use is that all that performance when you can be
| randomly locked out without any recourse? In terms of
| gaming, "dead DPS does 0 dps".
| Closi wrote:
| Well if you are worried either don't sign in with your
| Apple ID, or just enable a root user.
|
| It's exactly the same on Windows if you sign in with a
| Microsoft Account, what's different about Apple here?
|
| And I'm locked out of the account, but not my hardware.
| adabaed wrote:
| What part of "Tool for work" you don't understand? If this
| helps me make money, why would I buy a 200$ cheaper
| Windows/Linux machine? Am I more free with a Windows/Linux
| machine? Seriously? We can go all the way down if you want,
| does Intel/AMD/ARM let you see the code?
| saladuh wrote:
| The AMD microcode, running on my computer, isn't going to
| lock me out of my computer. You don't get full freedom
| with that microcode in the free software sense, but
| that's besides the point in this situation. At the very
| least that AMD microcode isn't going to (purposefully)
| lock you out from logging in to your TTY, because it
| wasn't designed to do that. At worst, the microcode will
| be so faulty that your PC won't boot (and that,
| hopefully, wouldn't be by design).
|
| What's happening on your Mac, however, is _by design_.
| Apple designed the software to do that, and they get away
| with it. That 's the difference.
|
| If my AMD microcode started doing that, the whole world
| would be in uproar. Because, at least in present time,
| present day, they're not able to get away with that. Same
| applies to Intel and ARM. But Apple does.
| emsy wrote:
| That's a naive take. The intel ME is also there ,,by
| design" and is equally capable to lock you out of your
| machine. And as long as only a small number of users are
| affected, they would also get away with it. The average
| customer usually doesn't care about other customers
| problem as long as they're not affected.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| I'm in agreement with the general principle: I'm constantly
| low-level baffled that the default for the computer-savvy
| isn't Linux, given my smooth experience with it over the
| last 15 years and the primacy of having control over your
| system.
|
| But there are always switching costs, and a billion long-
| tail reasons that could be keeping someone on a platform.
| The odds are minuscule that a) switching is a reasonable
| option on a timescale that would help OP and b) he's
| unaware of the option.
| hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
| > I'm constantly low-level baffled that the default for
| the computer-savvy isn't Linux, given my smooth
| experience with it over the last 15 years and the primacy
| of having control over your system.
|
| While I agree with you, a Linux machine cant be used to
| develop iOS apps. I tried for some time using an external
| build service for my Cordova apps and it wasn't very
| smooth. In the end, I gave up and bought an old macbook.
| The problem is, Apple tends to drop support for older
| hardware withe very iteration, and now (thanks to
| dosdude!) I reached the maximum supported age for recent
| Xcode versions. Something inside me is revolting against
| buying a new macbook just to keep my app in the apps
| store (yes they need to be updated even if they are
| feature complete to fit in the new requirements).
| wutbrodo wrote:
| > a Linux machine cant be used to develop iOS apps
|
| Of course, and serious gamers or users of specialty
| software may still need Windows, etc etc. These are
| examples of the "billions of reasons" that I alluded to
| in my comment, and it's why i took care to refer to it as
| the _default_ choice, not the universal one.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Since you only really need command line access (graphics
| performance is a non-issue), you might consider VMWare?
| Either to run new macOS versions as guests in your older
| OS (I have macOS 11 virtualized within OS X 10.9), or
| even from Windows or Linux (with the VMWare EFI patch to
| remove the Apple hardware check).
|
| (Or Virtualbox or Parallels, but I've consistently found
| VMWare to be the best with macOS guests.)
| mnahkies wrote:
| This sounds fine from a technology perspective, but
| personally I wouldn't be comfortable building iOS apps
| professionally running osx in a VM - I'm fairly sure this
| violates the license which could turn into a big head
| ache later.
|
| (Linux user who wishes there was an easy way to build iOS
| apps from Linux)
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Virtualizing macOS is explicitly allowed by Apple as long
| as you do so on Apple hardware.
| speedgoose wrote:
| Can you show me these better laptops ?
| pietrovismara wrote:
| Lenovo Thinkpad and Dell precision are two product lines
| of the same tier or higher. With both you can choose your
| OS and with most Thinkpad models you can even customize
| the hardware, plus you get 3 years of on-site express
| assistance for less than 100EUR. These are all durable
| machines that will last you years.
| speedgoose wrote:
| My laptop before I switched to MacBook M1 was a
| relatively high end ThinkPad Carbon X1. It was okay but
| the MacBook pro are a lot better despite the lack of a
| touchscreen.
| Filligree wrote:
| I have a Thinkpad X1.
|
| It struggles with just a few dozen tabs open. Opening a
| new Google doc takes ten seconds. And no, it isn't out of
| memory; it's just slow. The CPU isn't maxed out, but I
| think the GPU is.
|
| It's hot, and the battery life is maybe three hours.
|
| I also have an M1 MacBook. Under the same workload it's
| cool to the touch, window switching is instant, opening a
| new doc takes maybe two seconds, and battery life is
| about eight hours.
| pietrovismara wrote:
| The X1 comes with a variety of CPUs depending on the gen
| and the price tag AFAIK. Make the comparison on CPU power
| and available RAM, not on the model. I owned an X1 carbon
| for a year and half (work laptop) and it would handle any
| workload (multiple open editors, dozens of browser tabs
| open, docker-compose with multiple services on, etc)
| without lag, while still having a great battery life. The
| price tag for my model was ~2200EUR.
|
| Now I use a somewhat old P51 and it's an absolute beast,
| but is certainly a brick when compared to lighter models
| like the X1 or a MacBook.
| emerongi wrote:
| I have a T14 with an AMD CPU. Plenty fast, not hot and
| battery lasts about 6-8 hours. CPU-wise, I'd of course
| prefer the M1, though. Intel CPUs are not great in
| laptops.
|
| I don't like what Lenovo has done to the T-line, but
| Thinkpads in general are still high quality in my
| opinion.
| adabaed wrote:
| It's a tool and tools doesn't private me of freedom.
| pietrovismara wrote:
| Except when your tool stops working as intended because the
| company that sold it to you still has more power over it than
| you do and suddenly you can't work to sustain yourself with
| the tool you paid for.
| adabaed wrote:
| I'm still free to use other tool. I'm not in jail for using
| an Apple product. My freedom, my real freedom, is equal.
| You know who are privating you for freedom. And is not a
| fruit company.
| sschueller wrote:
| Yes they do. If you no longer have the ability to talk to
| whom you want because the chat app is locked down or you
| can't drive to that part of town because your Tesla forbids
| you. You lost your freedom.
| mlindner wrote:
| It's got nothing to do with Apple products. OP's case makes no
| sense as Apple ID isn't used to log into the computer. It's
| just some fringe side stuff like the app store.
| hkalbasi wrote:
| Apple in hardware is a vendor like other vendors. Just remove
| their OS.
| grishka wrote:
| What else is out there that works this well out of the box and
| doesn't need constant maintenance? I'm genuinely curious.
| sneak wrote:
| Don't ever put an Apple ID into a Mac. The only thing you lose is
| iCloud (mostly not e2e encrypted, so a privacy nightmare) and the
| App Store. Macs can still install non-App Store software, though,
| so you don't actually need an Apple ID on them.
|
| You're just asking for paternalistic, Apple-knows-best trouble.
| Apple's cloud services are mostly garbage, anyway.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| You're confusing two separate things:
|
| The OP used an Apple account to log into the Mac itself.
|
| That's different than using your Apple ID to login to iCloud or
| the App Store.
| adabaed wrote:
| I've learned that today!
| evercast wrote:
| @OP Since the machine is new, I wonder if you talked to Apple
| support on the phone? Did they tell you to visit the service in
| person? Also, out of curiosity, how can you have multiple
| personal/professional Apple IDs? AFAIK you need to provide a
| separate phone number for each. It is not very easy to create
| multiple ones.
| adabaed wrote:
| Let's suppose they banned the account cause the information is
| already in use. No problem with that, but don't let me create
| the account in first place! And of course don't allow a user
| use it as main ID on a device if you know you ask a password
| for logging out. And as I said, calling for resetting a
| password? 2022 and a trillion dollar company.
| evercast wrote:
| Well..... it should be clear by now that this is not just
| about "resetting a password". The instructions at
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204106 provide quite a lot
| of options to follow, with the support call being last
| resort. Bugs happen, so why not tell them and let them help
| you first?
| Juliate wrote:
| Apple on one hand does sell iCloud (and all that sync between
| devices that goes with it) along with its hardware.
|
| And on the other hand, only manages to handle accounts issues
| like we were still in the 90's.
|
| That is, brutally locking people out of their own systems
| (sometimes for explainable reasons, which should still be
| resolvable) without any possible discussion or recourse.
|
| The only thing you can do is go at an Apple Store or call Apple
| support on the phone, only to spend hours and hours with them
| carefully following their scripts, sometimes escalating the issue
| to a more senior one, all of them sorry in the end that they
| can't fix it, and asking you to still note them well, because the
| issue is not on their side but on Apple's procedure wall.
|
| Which makes the first selling point ("all my life sync'd across
| my devices") moot at best, adversary at worst.
|
| The senior population is especially vulnerable to account
| hijacking and loss of their account, and then, their data, and
| then their devices (at least, they can recover their devices with
| the help of someone else, but most of their data is lost).
|
| And/or something is definitely rotten in the account
| reset/recovery procedures.
| dbg31415 wrote:
| American who moved to Australia for work... Apple account was
| frozen, just totally bricked my $5k MBP. It only started working
| again once I got back to the US. For 3 weeks I had to use a pen
| and paper notebook and a borrowed shitty plastic-y Dell junk-
| book. Fucking Apple, they won't help in these situations. They
| have some sort of security flag that gets tripped... and when you
| are one of the false positives they won't do anything to help
| you.
| tifadg1 wrote:
| Atleast your junkbook won't lock you out and leave you dry :-)
| zibzab wrote:
| But it's plastic!!
| throwoutway wrote:
| I somehow lost access to an AppleID. I dont even know how. I have
| the password, it's saved in a Password Manager, and an old Mac is
| still logged in. But the new Mac would not accept my
| authentication (I do not recall the specific error message).
|
| I gave up and created a new one, but lost all my old purchases.
| sersi wrote:
| PSA do not opt to login with your apple ID, it's an option when
| setting up the computer, you should never ever accept it. There's
| no reason to ever accept logging in with a non-local account
| (same for Windows but Microsoft is much more persistent in
| forcing this whereas at least it's relatively easy to not enable
| it on macs)
| walrus01 wrote:
| > PSA do not opt to login with your apple ID, it's an option
| when setting up the computer, you should never ever accept it.
|
| It makes me sad that we now have to treat a MacOS initial setup
| as a hostile experience, the same way as setting up Windows 10
| for an offline user account and intentionally not creating a
| microsoft account. The number of steps and dark pattern UI
| things a Windows 10 Home or Pro user has to jump through in the
| initial install to create a local-only account is really quite
| amazing. I just did a fresh install of a win10 home VM recently
| and ran into this.
|
| Two of the reasons I switched from a FreeBSD desktop
| environment to MacOS back in the 10.4 days (Tiger?) was because
| of the switch to the Intel CPUs with the first gen Macbook Pro,
| and that MacOS had become a fairly refined, polished desktop
| environment with a CLI, macports, and a decent selection of
| applications.
|
| Not only is apple now _hostile_ but it 's actively dangerous
| and harmful to its users' data, as shown in the example linked
| in this post, because if you go with the "online" apple account
| you risk getting locked out of everything you were using on a
| regular day-to-day basis.
|
| Now if we have to think of Apple as a hostile entity that is
| doing the same shit as microsoft, it makes me very
| disappointed.
| laurent123456 wrote:
| Any company at that size should be thought as a hostile
| entity - if anything bad happens you're just a drop in the
| ocean and the company couldn't care less about your issues.
| Everything should be done in such a way that there's an exit
| door if things go wrong (Of course that's unfortunately not
| always possible - eg if you're banned from any app store,
| that's it for you).
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > if anything bad happens you're just a drop in the ocean
| and the company couldn't care less about your issues
|
| This is certainly true for companies like Google that very
| famously refuse to provide customer support.
|
| However, companies like Amazon, Netflix, and Apple provide
| robust, free customer support.
| brodock wrote:
| > However, companies like Amazon, Netflix, and Apple
| provide robust, free customer support.
|
| Its not free, you paid for that as part of your purchase
| cost.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| You also paid for it when you bought an Android device
| and/or used Google services and Google relentlessly spied
| on your personal information.
|
| You just didn't get it.
| walrus01 wrote:
| the amount of catastrophe that can be caused in a normal
| person's life by a failed netflix account/billing/getting
| locked out is markedly different than what would happen
| to a non-technical user that has gone "all in" on
| trusting amazon, apple, microsoft or google platform
| cloud storage of all their documents, photos, private
| data.
|
| based on the amount of fake/fraudulent products sold on
| amazon's marketplace I really can't concur that they have
| robust customer support that is really empowered to do
| anything.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| >a non-technical user that has gone "all in" on trusting
| amazon, apple, microsoft or google
|
| Between Apple, Google and Microsoft, only Apple provides
| free customer support, in person, or over the phone.
|
| Microsoft provides support, but you have to pay for it.
|
| Google is the only one of the big three computing
| platforms that literally couldn't couldn't care less
| about your issues.
| schappim wrote:
| Apple is literally the only tech company I can walk into a
| store and most of the time get a problem fixed. I can't say
| that for any other piece of tech I own.
| walrus01 wrote:
| with the caveat that if the embedded on motherboard
| security chip/crypto key repository inside your apple
| device has decided to lock/freeze/brick your phone,
| laptop or tablet, it's basically become a hunk of
| garbage.
| [deleted]
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > Now if we have to think of Apple as a hostile entity that
| is doing the same shit as microsoft, it makes me very
| disappointed.
|
| It's sad and disappointing but not surprising in any way. The
| immutable truth is we simply can't trust these companies. We
| need to cut them out of our lives as much as humanly
| possible.
|
| Linux is flawed but it's ours. I hope we continue to have
| unlocked computers to run it on forever.
| linsomniac wrote:
| I believe they changed this in the last 6 months or year, but
| if you have an older ISO if Windows 10, and you don't have it
| connected to the Internet when you install, you can create a
| local account during installation.
| jagger27 wrote:
| There has always been a tiny skip button as well.
| somehnguy wrote:
| I did a Win10 install last night, the local account button
| has been removed. You also can't go back to the screen
| where you connect to the internet and undo it. Luckily this
| was on a laptop so I was able to use the Fn key to kill the
| wireless. Only then did the installer let me proceed with a
| local account. I hate the way computing is headed...
| veleek wrote:
| I believe there's an option on the account sign in page
| (under sign-in options or something) to allow you to
| create a local account. I agree it should be more clear,
| but at least it exists.
| ugjka wrote:
| I read somewhere on Win 11 you have to Alt+F4 out to get
| local account
| veleek wrote:
| I'm totally in agreement that they shouldn't hide the
| option to create a local account, but I'm relatively sure
| this isn't true.
|
| It's entirely possible that something like this did exist
| in some earlier installer version but I don't know that
| from a vague statement like this. Feels kinda like
| throwing Windows under the bus unnecessarily.
| ugjka wrote:
| > When setting up Windows 11, disconnect your Ethernet
| cable, and then cross your fingers that you see a "I
| don't have internet" option when prompted to connect to a
| network. If you do, that's great, go ahead and click it,
| and use a local account. However, there is a good chance
| you won't see the option, as shown in the screen grab
| above. If that is the case, the folks at Neowin
| discovered that you can bypass linking to a Microsoft ID
| by pressing Alt + F4.
|
| https://hothardware.com/news/bypass-windows-11-internet-
| setu...
| komadori wrote:
| AFAICR, they've removed the skip button in newer versions
| of the installer. You have to avoid being connected to the
| internet to create a local account now.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| And that goes for Windows, too. Only ever log into your
| physical, self contained, machine using a normal user account
| stored on that machine.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| 100% this. I've set up several new Macs lately. It's essential
| to skip any step that asks you to provide an AppleID unless you
| want a world of hurt.
|
| If you want iCloud or Apple Music you can set those up with
| your AppleID later (I cannot imagine wanting iCloud but that's
| just me).
| zibzab wrote:
| What kind of stupidly is this?
|
| Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?
| emerongi wrote:
| It could be the other way around: Microsoft hired the Apple
| guy and let them run wild.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| To my knowledge, Apple has never tried to force a user to
| use it's cloud services. You just skip any step
| referencing a cloud account during setup.
|
| This is not true of Microsoft.
|
| >Windows 10 users are annoyed that Microsoft has hidden
| the local account option when setting up a new PC or
| reinstalling Windows 10. A user on a popular Reddit
| thread notes that the local account option is now
| invisible if the device is connected to the internet.
|
| https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-
| microsof...
| cloudwizard wrote:
| I hate the fact that Apple kept asking me to accept the
| terms of service for Itunes. I have no intention of using
| Itunes. I would remove Itunes and many other Apple
| Crapware from my computer if I could.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _Apple has never tried to force a user to use it 's
| cloud services._
|
| I would argue that making the use of cloud services be
| the default forces users who aren't aware that it's
| optional and especially when they don't know that there
| *are* real downsides to using it.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| There is a huge difference between offering the option of
| a local account or a cloud account as Apple does, and
| removing the option of a local account altogether, as
| Microsoft has done.
|
| The button to skip that step in Apple's setup wizard is
| even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that
| the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud
| account later by skipping the step during the setup
| wizard.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _The button to skip that step in Apple 's setup wizard
| is even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that
| the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud
| account later by skipping the step during the setup
| wizard._
|
| No, but on the other hand there are plenty of services
| where "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after
| a certain amount of time"
|
| It would be better and clearer if Apple simply and
| clearly stated "iCloud account is optional and not
| required to use _your_ Mac "
| GeekyBear wrote:
| >on the other hand there are plenty of services where
| "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after a
| certain amount of time"
|
| Offering an easily skippable option during setup is not
| the same thing as the intentional dark patterns common on
| other platforms.
|
| >In this report, we analyze a sample of settings in
| Facebook, Google and Windows 10, and show how default
| settings and dark patterns, techniques and features of
| interface design meant to manipulate users, are used to
| nudge users towards privacy intrusive options.
|
| The findings include privacy intrusive default settings,
| misleading wording, giving users an illusion of control,
| hiding away privacy-friendly choices, take-it-or-leave-it
| choices, and choice architectures where choosing the
| privacy friendly option requires more effort for the
| users.
|
| https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/no-
| undersokelseka...
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| It could also be that cloud accounts on local computers
| are a bad idea and implementations will be bad no matter
| who does it.
| arboghast wrote:
| I had the same feeling about iCloud before I had a Mac and
| just a iPhone, but now that I have a Mac and that there are
| features such as "Sign-in with Apple" and "Hide My Email", I
| can't imagine living without. Apple Books is also a great
| eReader for PDFs and ePubs on macOS and iPad/iPhone which
| provides syncing across all devices. Not just the books
| themselves but also the chapters you're at, bookmarks, notes,
| etc.
|
| I suggest revisiting and if it's not for you, that's fine.
| But otherwise, yeah never sign-in with Apple.
|
| At least they are not agressive about it, unlike Windows 10
| or even 11 home which doesn't even allow local accounts.
| amiantos wrote:
| Apple Books also syncs position in your own epubs, unlike
| my new Kobo Sage which'll only sync reading position in
| books you've bought from Kobo. I still love my Kobo Sage
| and feel like managing my library with Calibre is better
| than Apple Books. But the iCloud syncing experience with
| Apple Books is clearly superior. People give Apple a lot of
| shit for their built in apps not being great (which is a
| good argument against them having a monopoly on iOS) but at
| least they nailed Books syncing.
| arboghast wrote:
| Some of their engineers must really love books, and
| others really hate podcasts.
| parentheses wrote:
| i don't agree. the conveniences afforded by using my apple id
| for text messages and phone calls while i'm on my work computer
| is invaluable. on the other hand the windows id doesn't ever
| get me anything of value. caveat: my thumbs hate the tiny
| keyboard so maybe i am particularly sensitive to this annoyance
| hobs wrote:
| Unless that is a work number that's a big mistake, don't ever
| expose your personal text messages and phone calls to your
| employer - its a huge legal problem.
| rectang wrote:
| Fully agree. I always create employer-specific IDs --
| Apple, GSuite, Github, and so on. It typically starts from
| a company email address and fans out.
|
| It confounds me how many of my colleagues don't do this.
| But when I explain my reasoning, nobody has complained.
|
| I understand that Apple requires its own employees to use
| personal IDs, which is really messed up. That
| organizational design flaw probably contributes to
| situations like the one we're discussing, since it might
| seem abnormal to an Apple person that someone would be
| associated with multiple IDs.
| sgerenser wrote:
| Apple does not require you to use your personal ID on
| your company laptop, but they do require you to use a
| non-@apple.com email for an iCloud account (only really
| needed for Find My Mac, but you're allowed to use other
| iCloud features if desired). Many people for expediency
| just use their personal account, but after various high
| profile issues in the news many have realized it's worth
| the hassle of creating a second account (e.g.
| myname.work@icloud.com).
| _rs wrote:
| I wonder what Apple's explanation/justification for this
| is?
| hobs wrote:
| Operating by fiat? Because they can.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| One of the account recovery methods is to request that
| Apple email you an "unlock my iCloud account" web link.
|
| If they were to send that email to your locked iCloud
| account, you wouldn't be able to receive it.
| cjcampbell wrote:
| Apple doesn't make it clear, but you can still get this
| without using the AppleID to log into your device.
|
| When setting up, create a local account first. You'll have an
| opportunity to later log into your AppleID for use with
| messages, FaceTime, App Store, etc.
|
| You can also switch to a local sign in account after the
| fact. This may have changed in recent versions, but try going
| to system preferences and selecting to reset your password.
| You should see an option to switch to a local account for
| sign in, which will only impact the log in process. You'll
| still be able to keep your id associated for all of the other
| benefits.
| stouset wrote:
| What on Earth are you talking about?
|
| I have set up several MBPs from factory over the past ten
| years and it hasn't ever been apparent to me that you
| _could_ use your AppleID to log in locally.
|
| I've attached every single one of these devices to my
| AppleID for iCloud but none of them have used anything but
| local credentials to sign in. And it's been far from hard
| to do. It was--as best as I can tell--the normal setup
| path.
| agrunyan wrote:
| Regardless of what the author of the post you're replying
| to said, there's no need to strike such a needlessly
| condescending tone.
| copperx wrote:
| People ought to be allowed to have a personality.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| People ought to realize they're talking to other people,
| as well, not cardboard cutouts with names like
| "mynameisvlad".
|
| It's not hard to have a personality without being
| condescending.
| stouset wrote:
| It wasn't condescending. It was bewildered.
|
| I have never even noticed the ability to log in with my
| AppleID (as opposed to local authentication), but GP is
| arguing that Apple actively makes it _difficult_ to avoid
| doing so. Something about that is wildly incongruent with
| my own personal experience and I am truly, genuinely
| confused.
| cjcampbell wrote:
| I will acknowledge my language was not as precise as it
| could have been, but I did not say that Apple is actively
| trying to be difficult or does this in a way that is
| unclear to all audiences. They definitely do a heck of a
| lot better than Microsoft, who I believe has removed the
| local login option from Windows 11 Home.
|
| However, the commenter I responded to did not realize
| this. Likewise, most of the non-technical Apple users
| that I encounter in my work make the same incorrect
| assumptions. I probably overcorrect a bit here, but I've
| learned that it helps to to validate the experience of
| the person I'm trying to educate.
|
| To be more precise in my initial statement, I don't think
| Apple makes this part of their interface as clear as it
| could be (or should be), and I don't think they provide
| the average user with the information to understand the
| implications of using Apple credentials to sign into
| their device. I don't assume that this is malicious. I'm
| sure they are driven some by benefits to the company, but
| I also suspect they think that this makes life easier for
| their users. There may be some truth to that, but I think
| it's a poor default.
|
| I work with small business owners and employees in the
| health care field (and teach as a University adjunct). At
| least in the health care context, there are compliance
| implications associated with these features (something
| that Apple Support and Genius's often fail to understand
| as well).
|
| In terms of the interface, when I'm working with a
| developer or tech worker, I consider the first-time setup
| and system preferences UI to be good enough. But I don't
| think that's true when it comes to a therapist, office
| manager, non-profit director, or even the majority of my
| undergraduate informatics students.
|
| On a separate note, I do have thick of enough skin not to
| be bothered by this response, but I hope you consider
| some of the replies regarding the tone. In this type of
| forum, reframing that bewilderment as curiosity will be
| much better received and help you avoid invalid
| assumptions about your intent!
| shawnz wrote:
| It was only supported in mac OS El Capitan and removed in
| Sierra.
| cachvico wrote:
| I think the implication is that it's Ok to sign in to iCloud
| _after_ the installation (and enable all the iCloud sync
| services). But the login account should be local only.
| microtherion wrote:
| To the best of my knowledge, it does not make a difference
| whether you sign in on initial setup or afterward. The
| difficulties OP was describing, I think, are tied to
| activating the "Find my Mac" option in iCloud. Once you
| activate that, you cannot simply log out from iCloud
| without providing your password. Being able to do so would
| rather defeat the purpose of "Find my Mac" as a theft
| prevention mechanism.
|
| So if you don't want the issues described, don't opt into
| "Find my Mac" (Personally, I'm quite fond of the option,
| but YMMV).
| tw04 wrote:
| >i don't agree. the conveniences afforded by using my apple
| id for text messages and phone calls while i'm on my work
| computer is invaluable.
|
| You don't need to login to the laptop with your Apple ID to
| do that, you just need to put your account into messenger.
| fy20 wrote:
| On Windows you just don't connect to a network when installing,
| and it'll let you create a local account.
| Zambyte wrote:
| There shouldn't have to be a workaround. This should simply
| be the default.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| There is, and it doesn't have to be the default, just easy
| enough to go "no thanks". Which thankfully it still is. For
| win11 you just click "sign in options" when prompted how to
| log in during install, and pick "offline account". Done.
| For win10, you click "continue with limited setup" during
| the account step. Of course, this does assume you're
| installing pro, because no one in their right mind should
| ever install the home version of windows by choice.
| coolspot wrote:
| Having to reinstall W10 on two machines last week, I can
| assure you that once you connect to wi-fi, option for a
| local account disappears and can't be brought back.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Having done the same three weeks ago: worked fine for me,
| but then, I did use my windows 10 dvd to install it, not
| whatever the latest .iso from microsoft is. Then I just
| ran through the standard "and now we wait for windows
| update to do its thing for the next few hours".
| Apparently only install images based on 21H2 won't give
| you the offline account option anymore.
| chmod775 wrote:
| > because no one in their right mind should ever install
| the home version of windows by choice.
|
| With Home a workaround I've found is just creating a
| throwaway windows account, then after installation
| creating a local user/local login and removing that
| throwaway account.
|
| However one has to be careful one's license does not
| become/is not associated with that account.
| Kehvarl wrote:
| Unless you're on Windows 11. In which case you need to get
| into task manager and end the network login task before you
| can continue with a local account.
| jptech wrote:
| Exactly this. I never understood why I had to go online when
| reinstalling MacOS.
| shawnz wrote:
| As I understand they got rid of the option to log in with your
| Apple ID in the newest versions of mac OS.
| KiDD wrote:
| The issue here is you keep creating AppleIDs. You should have
| only one or two and use them on your respective personal and work
| devices. With 2FA you really need to have more than one trusted
| device or you can easily lose access and have to go through the
| account recovery process which can take a while.
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