[HN Gopher] How to make quitting your addiction easier
___________________________________________________________________
How to make quitting your addiction easier
Author : vitabenes
Score : 199 points
Date : 2022-01-08 09:22 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.deprocrastination.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.deprocrastination.co)
| daggersandscars wrote:
| Everyone's addiction is different. A question that may be useful
| for some:
|
| When you started, why was it enjoyable? Be specific.
|
| Many attempts at addressing addictive behavior focus on stopping
| the behavior. If there was something specific the behavior
| initially improved, that has to be addressed or you're unlikely
| to succeed.
|
| E.g.: if drinking initially improved anxiety issues, those will
| still be there while the person is trying to quit.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| I felt addicted to the internet a year before the pandemic. I
| read the book "Don't shoot the dog" and it had so many amazing
| training tips to kick that addiction. Am I a dog? No. But the
| training and reinforcement is pretty much universal. Having tools
| to deal with addiction is important.
|
| Mindfulness sadly isn't the big aha! moment. I know I was
| addicted. I know I wanted to change. This is why they say
| "admitting you have a problem" is the first step.
|
| It's not a matter of knowing you're addicted and then suddenly
| stopping. That can happen, but more likely an incremental
| approach will happen. B.J. Fogg's book about tiny habits talks
| about this epiphany moment being quite rare.
|
| Only a couple times in my life have I had this epiphany moment
| and went cold turkey overnight. Once when I was larger and
| struggling to hike with friends like I used to. Another when I
| was playing video games and felt deja vu that made me feel like I
| wasted years of my life. Now, I'm in the best shape of my life
| and work on things I'm passionate about in my free time.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| This type of CBT is great.
|
| But I think there is a big distinction between chemical
| dependency and other compulsions or addictive behaviors.
|
| And I think the word addiction itself has been kind of coopted by
| self diagnosing people on the internet for karma and some odd
| type of self gratitude, if that makes sense; kind of a weird
| bragging about your supposed addiction to ____ or OCD or ADHD
| etc.
|
| The author writes "It's about seeing through the illusion of
| satisfaction. It's about realizing you don't want to be doing it
| anymore."
|
| Most users don't want to be addicts. Almost no one wants to be
| dependent on opiates or to have the shakes every morning. Anyone
| that does hasn't been using long enough yet or probably has other
| mental health issues that they are trying to patch over
| themselves with drugs.
|
| We know the satisfaction or other benefits one initially gets
| from using eventually gets buried deep by all the negatives.
|
| With drugs and alcohol the satisfaction becomes less and less,
| even when you use more and more.
|
| Drugs are fun & feel good after all. they can 'fix' a huge array
| of problems in your life.
|
| Until they don't.
|
| Props to anyone who can overcome a chemical dependency on
| willpower alone and through this type of CBT mental reframing the
| author talks about.
|
| But for almost all users, especially many of those with untreated
| underlying issues, it's basically impossible without science
| based, often medicine supported treatment.
|
| Another book I think is worth reading for a dumbed down summary
| of addiction is Never Enough: The Neuroscience and Experience of
| Addiction
| papito wrote:
| The Power of Habit really taught me to be on the lookout for
| negative and positive habit loops. It's an incredibly powerful
| concept, and how pretty much all addictions work, from food to
| cocaine.
|
| You are bored, so you automatically get up and walk like a zombie
| to the fridge to inspect it, for example.
| ultrablack wrote:
| Read Atomic Habits?
| ndynan wrote:
| This essentially the same argument that Judson Brewer makes using
| insights from behavioral + buddhist psychology -
| https://drjud.com/book/
|
| The insight is also to use mindfulness to understand the "true"
| experience of the addictive behavior and come to internalize that
| it is no longer valuable.
|
| Ezra Klein has a nice interview on the subject:
| https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/that-anxiety-youre-fee...
| aenis wrote:
| For those struggling with alcohol - I can recommend the Sinclair
| Method. The idea is to take an opioid antagonist, naltrexone,
| before drinking -- this helps reset the association between
| drinking and pleasure, since drinking on naltrexone is devoid of
| any pleasure, while the downsides of alcohol are still felt by
| the body. Do it a few times, and the desire to drink wanes. Also,
| when under the influence of naltrexone, it's hard to drink a lot,
| since it really is not enjoyable. It allowed me to basically stop
| drinking alcohol, but I can still go out with friends and have a
| drink if I want to, as long as I take naltexone before, there is
| zero risk of this ending up in a binge. Good stuff.
| gunshai wrote:
| I wonder if this works for gaming addiction.
| aenis wrote:
| There has been research into using it to fight gambling and
| binge eating addictions (with some moderate success in both
| cases). I'd guess it will work better for addictions which
| are associated with the state of euphoria, and less so or not
| at all with compulsive behavior where one feels miserable the
| whole time.
| loeg wrote:
| FWIW, it seems like you need a prescription to buy naltrexone
| in the US.
| MissionInfl wrote:
| I used telemedicine to get my first prescription. I had a few
| appointments and probably talked to the total for about 30
| minutes in total. The Sinclair Method is pretty
| straightforward once you understand it and there is only one
| hard rule (always take Naltrexone at least 1 hour before
| consuming alcohol). But the doctor will want to do a liver
| enzyme test and ask some basic questions to make sure that it
| is safe for you to take Naltrexone. If your liver is damaged,
| you may have to take Nalmefrene instead. Or if you are using
| opiates, it can be unsafe to take Naltrexone (not sure of the
| details here).
|
| At some point I was able to get my PCP to refill my
| Naltrexone subscription. Naltrexone is pretty widely known
| for treatment for alcoholism but the prevailing wisdom in the
| medical community is that it must be taken every day to
| prevent cravings and alcohol should not be consumed when on
| Naltrexone. I've heard that this way of using Naltrexone
| isn't any better than placebo. The TSM book[1] does a good
| job of explaining why this is the case: the mechanism of
| action is that the Naltrexone blocks the endorphin rewards
| from consuming alcohol, so it doesn't work if you don't drink
| and there is no point in taking Naltrexone without drinking.
|
| tldr: you may be able to find a TSM specific doctor via
| telemedicine. Additionally, most PCP will probably prescribe
| Naltrexone, although you need to be mindful that they may
| recommend to take it every day and this is not TSM
|
| [1] https://www.dropbox.com/s/60fs7gmvbyzs1kk/Cure%20for%20Al
| coh...
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| Does the Sinclair method have a track record for people who
| don't drink primarily for pleasure? I find that I already don't
| typically get a lot of actual pleasure out of drinking; it's
| mostly a way to help me relax because my baseline anxiety level
| tends to be pretty high. I don't have the classic "alcoholic"
| pattern of behavior, but I've done the math and the number
| definitely needs to go down.
|
| (Please spare me the "ackchyually alcohol makes anxiety worse"
| spiel. Whatever my problem is, it was there long before I
| started drinking and has not improved during periods of
| abstinence.)
| aenis wrote:
| Likely. Your body won't get the euphoric rush from alcohol,
| so I thinik it will prevent it from functioning as anxiety
| medication. Its works on low hardware level, so to speak, and
| should nullify any positive effects from alcohol on the
| psyche.
| MissionInfl wrote:
| Highly recommend The Sinclair Method. I chose to try it because
| I wanted to be able to continue to drink socially as the OP
| mentioned. I actually overshot this and find myself completely
| abstinent for over a year now. It actually made me "too sober"
| which can be slightly frustrating but it a REALLY good problem
| to have considering where I was a few years ago.
|
| Some more resources:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/ - a great
| community and how I first discovered The Sinclair Method
|
| https://www.onelittlepillmovie.com/ - documentary on The
| Sinclair Method
|
| https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts - TED talk on The Sinclair Method
|
| https://www.dropbox.com/s/60fs7gmvbyzs1kk/Cure%20for%20Alcoh...
| (warning: large PDF) - book about The Sinclair Method,
| definitely the best way to learn more, it is surprisingly
| simple and the first few chapters cover everything but you may
| find yourself reading on because there's some interesting case
| studies and tips on how to succeed
| birriel wrote:
| Is there something similar to this for smoking, barring Chantix
| (I believe it was recalled last year for having carcinogenic
| compounds itself)?
| ransom1538 wrote:
| _from a friend:_ They have a shot version too. The pill will
| work if you don 't cheat. But taking the shot takes out all the
| guessing. I would do this your first few months.
| aenis wrote:
| According to the sinclair method, the shot is only good if
| you do drink every day.
|
| Otherwise, the pill is better. Take it if you plan to drink,
| and dont take it otherwise.
|
| As another poster has said, its easy to "overshoot". For me,
| after three pills I stopped craving for alcohol and only
| drink on social ocassions.
| MissionInfl wrote:
| I would modify this recommendation to say that the shot
| version (Vivitrol in the US) is not necessarily compatible
| with The Sinclair Method which requires you to take
| Naltrexone only when you are drinking. So unless you drink
| every day, it might not be the best fit. I myself was a binge
| drinker, on any given day I drank either 0 drinks or 10+, so
| the Naltrexone pills were the best fit for me.
| erwincoumans wrote:
| For a curious person, reading interesting information on the
| internet and watching Youtube videos is not (necessarily) wasted
| time.
|
| So it helps if you keep in mind activities that are acceptable
| and ones that are not.
|
| A lot of the 'good habits', moved to screen time: I used to read
| more news papers, magazines and books, and most of that turned
| into screen time. Online discussion is also a useful way to spend
| time I think (with the right audience, such as some of HN).
|
| I wouldn't put screen time due to curiosity for information on
| the same level as bad addictions, such as smoking (hurting
| health) or gambling (hurting the wallet).
| david_allison wrote:
| The YouTube front page/recommendations were a massive amount of
| wasted time for me. Removing them via uBlock Origin filters has
| significantly reduced my "wasted" time on YouTube:
| www.youtube.com###secondary www.youtube.com##ytd-
| browse[page-subtype="home"] #primary
| www.youtube.com##.ytp-show-tiles.ytp-endscreen-
| paginate.videowall-endscreen.ytp-player-content.html5-endscreen
| lanstin wrote:
| A good general rule of thumb is never look at anything
| recommended by an algorithm. Chronological feeds and media
| recommendations from other humans. Search results are a
| tricky middle ground. Seems they are trying to make that a
| source of low value, addictive content as well.
| danenania wrote:
| I've been listening to Andrew Huberman's podcast lately. He's a
| neurologist and ophthalmologist at Stanford. Something that
| comes up a lot is how much artificial light, especially the
| blue light of screens, affects the eyes, brain, and circadian
| rhythm. Research has even shown a significant impact on hormone
| levels.
|
| Because of this, I don't see reading a book on a phone as
| equivalent to a paper book, or reading news online as a
| equivalent to a newspaper. The content your brain is processing
| may be the same, but it has a very different impact on your
| body and mental state, especially at night. So I think it's
| wise to differentiate screen vs. non-screen activities and be
| more careful about doing the former in moderation, or perhaps
| only early in the day.
| lanstin wrote:
| EInk with warm light. Kindle or Rmarkable with good reading
| light. Or reading outside in the sunlight.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Stupid condescending article. Anybody who thinks quitting smoking
| is just a question of "realizing you don't want it anymore" has
| never tried to quit smoking.
| dahart wrote:
| > Stupid condescending article
|
| Don't mistake a 'here's the trick' with 'it's so easy', the
| article wasn't claiming it's easy. And don't take advice as a
| personal affront.
|
| The true and valid point this article is making is that
| changing a behavior is a mental game you play with your mind,
| not a physical one, and that "willpower" and "discipline"
| doesn't work before fully convincing yourself of your goals.
| You have to figure out how to truly convince yourself the old
| behavior isn't what you want, and the new behavior is your
| goal. Not in a contradicting yourself kind of way, but in a
| deep and true believe it with your whole body way. I think
| you're actually making the exact same point underneath your
| disagreement, that focusing on quitting is too hard, and
| there's more to it.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Sure, if they are arguing to apply to things that are mostly
| psychologically addictive. It's smoking is a physical
| addiction and a really hard one to break.
| dahart wrote:
| I think something being physically addictive only increases
| the mental difficulty of overcoming the addiction, no? It's
| not physically hard to go through withdrawal, it just
| sucks.
| lookalike74 wrote:
| You're being too kind, this article is woo bullshit. Addiction
| at its core is having lost the power of choice and recovery is
| finding a way to regain it. But to most people that sounds like
| just another choice to make - they completely don't get it.
| astura wrote:
| I think everyone's experiences are different.
|
| I have a friend who left his toxic wife. Immediately after that
| he quit smoking cold turkey without even trying. He said that
| with his ex-wife out of his life he just didn't feel like he
| needed to smoke anymore.
|
| Myself - I don't find caffeine addictive in any way.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| Anec data: i smoked for 4 years. For 3.5 of those i was trying
| to give up - somehow once i entered the consciously trying hard
| to give up stage, i went from 10 a day to 20-30 per day.
|
| Patches, gums, sprays (throat one, nasal one), cold turkey,
| herbal cigs, gamification, the little ball pellet things that
| were briefly on the market as a better gum alternative in the
| early 2000s, electric cig (not the modern e-cigs, the early
| 2000's terrible ones), having a quit buddy, joining an nhs
| smoking cessation group...
|
| I was not playing at giving up. I was latching on to anything
| that I'd heard worked for someone. I was distraught mentally.
| To top it all off, i couldn't actually afford smoking as a
| student, i was accruing debt.
|
| The only 2 things i refused to try were a "stupid" book
| (easyway by allen carr) - how dumb do you have to be to let a
| book reprogram your mind, I'm too smart for that. Also i
| avoided hypnotherapy for the same reason.
|
| I finally read that book. I quit smoking (easily) before the
| half way mark in the book. No will power, nothing. I was just a
| non smoker now.
|
| I don't smoke, i don't think about it ever, it doesn't bother
| me to be near smokers, there's no triggers i have to avoid etc
| etc im just a plain non smoker.
|
| That book uses the same approach laid out at the start of this
| article.
| justinator wrote:
| Good for you! I hope you've allow yourself celebration for
| kicking the habit!
| cyberpunk wrote:
| If you enjoy a beer now and again I would avoid his quitting
| drinking one, it completely ruins that for you too.
|
| Why they don't just give out copies of easyway on the health
| service I don't know, sure worked for everyone I know who has
| used it.
| cyberpunk wrote:
| I'm smoke free for 8 days, and it was very much a question of
| realising I didn't want it anymore.
|
| I wouldn't generalise on such things though, everyone is
| different.
| justinator wrote:
| Heck yeah! KEEP GOING!
| pixelrevision wrote:
| Lol yup. The advice here is about as practical as "just have 1
| smoke a week so you can enjoy it". A lot of people just don't
| get the difference between an addiction and a bad habit.
| Nevermark wrote:
| Obviously it isn't "just a question", but the article didn't
| say that.
|
| It simply points out that how we frame, and experience, our own
| motivations for quitting can be more or less helpful.
|
| I think anything mentally difficult is going to work better if
| we take into account our subconscious as a first class partner.
| Our subconscious responds very strongly to how we perceive
| tasks and challenges. It can carry us through tough situations,
| but is very hard to work against.
|
| Sometimes subtle, almost nonsensical things from a purely
| rational point of view, really help.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| It depends, the Allen Carr book everyone recommends tries to
| make you see that without directly telling you that smoking is
| disgusting etc.
|
| The thing for me that allowed me to give up was realising and
| convincing myself that it was possible for the cravings to go
| away, to feel normal in a pub without smoking etc.
|
| It seemed impossible at some point so I always went back to it
| before.
| telxosser wrote:
| Same for me. I quit for good ten years ago by basically
| convincing myself it would be easy after so many times trying
| to quit I lost count.
|
| Of course it really wasn't easy but that mindset let me not
| give in to the cravings. I do think when you internalize
| quitting as something that is super difficult it just gives
| ammunition for all those mind games to give in.
|
| I was also watching this Navy SEAL buds training at the time
| and the one guy Travis Lively was using that strategy.
| Convincing himself that Navy SEAL hell week was really not
| that bad. I love that guy.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVxhm7jkN0k
| barrystaes wrote:
| There is only 3 ways that i can think of. Either forget/lose
| the routine without thought, or observe/choose to quit, or
| being deprived by others.
|
| Only the realisation and choice is definitive. Thats the quit.
| There is no try. I decided to quit once.
|
| If your quit failed, you just didnt fully realise yet.
| 300bps wrote:
| Spot on. In 2013 after a highish triglyceride test result I quit
| obvious refined sugar. (Have to specify exactly what I mean or I
| get a lot of questions like "what about bread?!!? You know
| there's sugar in bread right!?!?")
|
| I framed it as, "I just don't want to eat that garbage anymore."
| Two weeks of cravings and then I just stopped missing it. Fruit
| started to taste amazing.
|
| Triglycerides went from 263 to 113 in one year.
| Kaze404 wrote:
| This is something I realized after trying to quit League of
| Legends, a game I played for over a decade, years ago.
|
| I could only truly stop playing it when I completely internalized
| the fact that the game didn't bring me anything except misery
| after every match, win or lose, and the short term satisfaction
| of the ding you hear when you kill a creep or make a fancy play
| were not worth it.
|
| Sometimes when I remember it exists I still feel a pull towards
| it, but now I know that if I play it, in 45 minutes I'll wish I
| did something else instead. This is more than enough to stop me,
| fortunately.
| emerongi wrote:
| Even then it's hard to stop, mainly because it's a habit. I
| went through the same experience and for about 2 months I had
| the habit of trying to open League whenever I had free time (it
| wasn't installed anymore, but the brain wiring would still
| "think" of opening it). Every single time, I would need to tell
| myself that there are activities that make me happier. I would
| slip a couple of times, re-install and then immediately de-
| install. Luckily I broke the habit eventually.
|
| After going through that, I no longer play games at all and
| would probably be fine with some degree of regulation in the
| industry. Many kids are growing up as addicts and it's a bit
| worrying.
| Kaze404 wrote:
| Yep, my experience was the exact same. I still play video
| games however, but as I said in another comment, I'm more
| conscious of what the game I'm currently playing does to my
| body and mental health. This mostly translates into a healthy
| obsession with Final Fantasy XIV, a game I get to share with
| people as it's online, but not in a competitive environment
| meaning I get to enjoy it at my own pace.
| anthk wrote:
| I was like that on games. A half and a decade ago I switched
| over nes/snes/md/genesis/pce classics, roguelikes and text
| adventures. No bullshit mechanics, no addictions, no DLC. The
| 8/16 bit games are short enough to be enjoyed fully, roguelikes
| add random mechanics and calmness, and IF is like a good book
| but with far more interaction and rewarding puzzless.
| barbs wrote:
| Yeah, I find there are some games like CS:GO that feel a bit
| more like a brain-numbing, slightly soothing activity that
| chews up time. And then there are roguelikes like FTL that
| involve interesting decision making and feel far more
| satisfying.
|
| These days I play more of the latter than the former, but
| less often, and the decision to play them feels more
| intentional.
| ss108 wrote:
| Haha, coincidentally, I clicked on this thread because I plan
| to uninstall Dota in a couple months.
| hiptobecubic wrote:
| I cannot imagine being so addicted to a game that I plan on
| quitting it "in a couple months."
|
| Thank God I never started dota. Just reading the steam
| reviews are enough to convince anyone that gaming is a
| serious public health issue and detriment to society.
| ss108 wrote:
| It's winter now, so social life is quieter. _shrug_
| slothtrop wrote:
| > I could only truly stop playing it when I completely
| internalized the fact that the game didn't bring me anything
| except misery
|
| Being cognizant of this was among the first steps to curbing
| addiction for me, but I found that I would quickly forget when
| my mind was in pursuit mode. Anticipation creates a large spike
| in dopamine - I've shaken in anticipation, you've got blinders
| on at that point. I needed the discipline to avoid entertaining
| the thought of cravings and take myself out of situations,
| offer alternatives even. When I was stressed or sleepless is
| when this was hardest. Eventually your baseline dopamine levels
| improve, and you find more motivation and focus for everyday
| life. It can get better with most other things remaining equal,
| which in my experience was beyond my imagination until I lived
| it.
| infairverona wrote:
| Curious why you feel that way, I've been playing league of
| legends for about that long and although i don't spend nearly
| as much time as I used to on it, it still does mostly bring me
| joy whenever I get to play. Is the disappointment you feel
| linked to winning vs losing or are you always unhappy
| regardless of the outcome of the game?
| [deleted]
| emerongi wrote:
| For me, it was about ranking up. I'm harsh on myself when
| ranking up, these are the possible scenarios:
|
| 1. You play well, but your teammates play poorly. You lose
| the game, you feel bad.
|
| 2. You play poorly, but your teammates play well. Whether you
| win or lose, you feel bad.
|
| 3. You play poorly, your teammates play poorly. You feel bad.
|
| 4. You play well, your teammates play well. You win - the
| only happy scenario -, but even then there's going to be
| complaining and whining by everyone in the game.
|
| If your win rate is something like 55%, you're going to
| experience a lot of the bad scenarios, even though you're
| ranking up in the long term. Once it's an addiction, you
| start the game already in a bad state of mind, as you hate
| that you're wasting your time on a pointless game anyway.
|
| ARAMs were fun though, I actually enjoyed ARAM.
| dsclough wrote:
| I've wished for years that mobas and other competitive-
| ranked games simply let you completely hide your rank from
| yourself. I'm sure the psychological addiction aspect has
| something to do with why this is never an option, but
| playing unranked games isn't really a replacement because
| those players have a different mindset. Just let me play
| competitive modes and be blind to my ranking :(
| Kaze404 wrote:
| My best guess is I played it so much that I don't get any
| satisfaction from a match ending, regardless of outcome,
| which turns into disappointment considering it's a PvP game
| where you're supposed to get satisfaction from winning. That
| would lead me into immediately queueing again, looking for
| the next rush, and next thing I notice it's 8 hours later and
| I feel like I wasted an entire day.
|
| I still play video games of course, but nowadays I'm more
| conscious of what each of them bring to my life, and avoid
| the ones that don't leave me feeling good after a long
| session.
| ss108 wrote:
| > it still does mostly bring me joy whenever I get to play
|
| I think you are def in the minority of people who regularly
| play LoL or Dota haha
|
| relevant:
| https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidAliveQueleaFeelsBadMan-
| QxQq2...
| anthk wrote:
| Switch to https://68k.news for 10 minutes a day. Enough to stay
| informed.
|
| On tech, usenet has good newsgroups, such as comp.misc. By
| pulling articles once a web, you'll get sorted.
| b3morales wrote:
| Tangent, but if this is your site you should fix the
| certificate.
| anthk wrote:
| That's because I posted the wrong URL. It's http://68k.news,
| it doesn't use TLS at all.
| tcskeptic wrote:
| I have found it very useful to frame things in terms of my future
| self. This works for both things I want to do, and things I want
| to stop doing.
|
| For example -- get home from work, tired, don't want to go row.
| Instead of saying to myself "You really should go row, you said
| you wanted to do it 4 times a week." I say "1 hour from now do I
| want to be a person who has sat on the couch for an hour or do I
| want to be the person who has worked out, taken a shower, and
| feels good". Same thing for stopping mindless doom scrolling or
| making dinner vs ordering deliver or whatever.
|
| I know it's just a mental trick -- but reframing things in terms
| of my future self has been _incredibly_ powerful for me.
| anthomtb wrote:
| Future me has helped maintain an exercise habit and healthy
| eating for nearly 2 decades of my life (and counting).
|
| Future me has been less effective for breaking the internet
| habit. It works, just not quite as well. I think because future
| me still wants to know what happened in the world in the last
| hour. And because sometimes current me needs a break and light
| entertainment due to the mental energy required to consider
| future me.
| costcofries wrote:
| I do something similar. If I'm being lazy or procrastinating I
| ask myself to rate on a scale of ten how much I don't want to
| do said thing, then I ask myself why it's not a 10/10, those
| reasons push me to start.
|
| Example - how badly do you not want to run today (6/10). Why
| not 10/10? Because I'll feel better after, because it's part of
| my marathon training and because dinner will feel more
| rewarding. Ok, go run.
| psychomugs wrote:
| Some advice I gleaned from another HN post: you rarely [1]
| regret going for a run.
|
| [1] Unless you're injured and stubbornly push your body
| through it.
| DarylZero wrote:
| If you're fat you are going to regret going for a run for
| days just from the micro-injuries. It's not low-impact.
|
| Also, even if you walk back home after an injury, you might
| regret running. You started your run able to run, now
| you're disabled!
| BossingAround wrote:
| Your wording is poor, but you are right in a sense. If
| I've never run, I won't finish a triathlon and expect to
| be completely fine the next day.
|
| If your body is utterly out of shape, i.e. you're
| morbidly obese, you don't start with running. You start
| with walking and slowly move to running. In that case,
| you won't regret walking, not running.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| You're actually triggering two things with this trick.
|
| First, the piece you call out is delayed gratification (ie
| focusing on the future over the short-term).
|
| But there's a second piece hidden in there, which is identity-
| orientation. "I'm the type of person who does X". Tying actions
| to your identity is actually really powerful.
| MagicNights wrote:
| This is one of many solutions to the framing problem. John
| Vervaeke discusses it and the theoretical background in his
| awakening from the meaning crisis lecture series.
|
| Lecture 13 especially
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkWNBdBDyoE
|
| Meditation, therapy, exercise, certain religious practices,
| etc. Also break people out when they are stuck in loops of
| vicious cycles. Different people have different combinations
| of what practices work for them. And there's no way to know
| what works before you try it.
|
| In OPs article, he mentions the distinction between knowledge
| and information. He means self-knowledge, the stuff Socrates
| talked about
| id wrote:
| This only works if you care enough about your future self
| unfortunately.
| robenkleene wrote:
| A bit off topic, but I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas
| about how to remember to do something like this?
|
| In specific, I mean as it relates to information management.
| E.g., a lot of things are solved problems for me, like using
| todo apps for todos, and some sort of "Everything bucket"[0]
| system for searching for information (per the link, I use the
| file system for this).
|
| But things like this, things you want to try and implement, but
| unlike a todo, you have to wait for the right moment (i.e., use
| this technique to address a bad habit at the right moment), I
| can't figure out a way to use to technology to remember to do
| them.
|
| (I'm aware some people don't like to use technology to solve
| these kinds of problems, but for me personally, technology has
| been tremendously effective in solving these problems when a
| system can be adapted to the problem. I'm just not sure what
| the system should be for this type of information.)
|
| I've actually been thinking about this problem literally for
| over a decade, the first app I ever made was designed to
| address it[1]. This app is no longer maintained, because it
| didn't get enough users to be worth maintaining. Maybe an app
| like this is the right solution, and there's just not enough
| people who think it's a problem worth solving to support the
| continued development of a software solution? I'm not sure.
|
| [0]: https://www.al3x.net/blog/2009/01/31/the-case-against-
| everyt...
|
| [1]: https://1percenter.com/review/
| batshit_beaver wrote:
| When it comes to automatic introspection (ie noticing when
| you're thinking/feeling something, processing that, and
| making a CONSCIOUS decision in response), I am not aware of a
| better solution than meditation. It literally trains your
| mind that the constant stream of information passing through
| your brain (thoughts and cravings included) can actually be
| "watched" and responded to.
|
| If you don't have a sufficient level of awareness, it'll be
| really hard to catch yourself thinking "man, I don't want to
| do X, I'm just gonna lay on the couch." You'll just go lay on
| the couch and your brain will continue on to something else.
|
| To break these kinds of patterns, you essentially need a
| "supervisor" process running in your brain that can catch and
| evaluate thoughts, especially negative or harmful ones. Then
| if you catch yourself thinking "I don't want to do X right
| now," you can proceed to thinking about that feeling rather
| than laying on the couch.
|
| Takes about a month or two of daily meditation before this
| sort of thing really starts becoming effortless.
|
| I miss my meditation routine...
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| The problem with this kind of trick for me is that too often,
| the "better" option does not actually make me feel better (in
| any sense). It ends up just feeling like effort for the sake of
| effort.
| emerged wrote:
| I sometimes explicitly create a log of the before and after
| state of mind. Before rowing: "I feel fine, but pretty lazy and
| stressed about XYZ" after rowing: "Struggled through and got a
| big endorphin rush toward the end, feeling good and much less
| stressed."
|
| Seeing fitness progress graphs helps as well (heart rate vs
| power output etc). I know for me personally monitoring my
| resting heart rate made a strong argument against pretty much
| any alcohol consumption.
| loeg wrote:
| What effect have you observed on your resting heart rate from
| alcohol?
| emerged wrote:
| It increases immediately and takes a few days to settle
| back down. After quitting my weekly average slowly
| continued to decrease. My RHH is a very consistent 46 bpm
| now and it was consistently in the low to mid 50s during
| the months/years I was routinely drinking on the weekends.
|
| Obviously there are other factors like fitness, sleep,
| general health, but I was monitoring the numbers on a daily
| basis and the trends became really clear.
| maccard wrote:
| I've not been measuring my RHR for a while but when I was
| training daily my RHR would be up significantly for maybe 3
| days after a night out even if I felt 100% the morning
| after.
| molhillmountain wrote:
| Alternative to thinking in the future about rewards is focusing
| on immediate costs. My consumption and enjoyment of junk food has
| plummeted ever since I went from 'this is bad for me but
| delicious' to 'this in fact tastes awful and my stomach hurts.'
| Obviously, this doesn't work as well with my favorite desserts,
| but if you improve your taste and your favorite desserts become
| super expensive/rare you rapidly decrease the amount of
| temptation you face.
| short12 wrote:
| This article is just flat out the dumbest thing I've ever read in
| regards to addiction
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I'm genuinely curious, because of the other discussions
| happening here. Why is the article bad/wrong?
| pixelrevision wrote:
| It's conflating bad habits and addiction. The advice may work
| for bad habits such as watching too much YouTube when you'd
| rather be more productive. An addiction twists the mind
| around where no amount of reason is going to stick without
| external systems in place to help. Anyone who's had any
| serious struggles either internally or with a loved one is
| going to recognize this.
| golemiprague wrote:
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I happen to agree. I read it in the same way as many
| articles on depression. This is an article that discusses a
| "normal person" problem.
|
| Fortunately, most of the people discussing it here seem to
| recognize that. A few of them prefaced their comments as a
| result. And I don't see anyone disagreeing that bad habits
| and serious addiction are different problems.
|
| As a result, the discussion has been helpful to me rather
| than aggravating.
| l5870uoo9y wrote:
| I have found the replacement tactic useful. If you want to stop
| drinking coffee, replace it with tea.
| dbrueck wrote:
| Can confirm. I successfully got off cocaine by replacing it
| with heroin and it was as easy as pie.
| vcarrico wrote:
| > Most people try quitting their addiction by banning themselves
| from doing it.
|
| After some failed attempts I quit smoking 7 months a go and this
| change in the way of thinking made the difference for me. During
| the failed attempts I used to repeat to myself "I can't smoke",
| this last time my thought was more like "I don't want to smoke",
| I didn't even tell to my wife that I was trying to quit so that I
| would fell less the pressure of being forbidden to smoke. Somehow
| it worked better for me and whenever I had cravings my thoughts
| were usually something like "I could smoke if I wanted to, I'm 5
| minutes away from a pack of cigarets, but I don't want."
|
| I'm not saying that this was the only factor that made me stop or
| this is the "secret to quit smoking" or that's easy, it just
| worked better for me.
| _dark_matter_ wrote:
| This is the basics of Carr's "easy way", right? It basically
| convinces you that you don't want to smoke. On top of that it
| specifically doesn't let you stop smoking until you finish the
| book. So you feel horrible reading this book and smoking until
| the end when you're like FINALLY I'm allowed to stop!
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Well, there's "bad habits," and "lack of discipline," vs. true,
| hard-core "addiction," like alcoholism, compulsive gambling,
| sexual addiction, and drug addiction.
|
| For the former, mindfulness, metrics, and discipline can be
| extremely effective (and can provide many benefits beyond simply
| quitting the habit).
|
| For the latter, they can be helpful, but we usually need a great
| deal more assistance.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| I would appreciate a trigger warning before people use the word
| "Addiction" to encompass everything from methamphetamine use to
| playing video games to frequently. As you indicate they are not
| comparable and require very different approaches to escaping.
| Adding to the challenge is that hardcore, true addictions tend
| to be layered on top of each other and quitting one is almost
| impossible while still having the others, yet quitting them all
| at the same time is also impossible.
| dbrueck wrote:
| > I would appreciate a trigger warning before people use the
| word
|
| Curious to know what you mean by this. Are you literally
| asking that people say/write "trigger warning" (or something
| to that effect) before a certain word is used in an upcoming
| sentence or do you mean something else?
| dillondoyle wrote:
| I'm not sure what a trigger warning would look like but I
| agree in figuring out a language distinction.
|
| Chemically dependent works in a lot of ways IMHO.
|
| but I guess you could argue that ones porn addiction messes
| with your neuro-transmitters & dopamine, gaba, whatever too.
|
| Plus you're right that with poly drug dependency a lot of
| times there are other real mental health issues at play, many
| requiring medicine to treat both the chemical dependency and
| underlying problems.
|
| To me too it's kind of a bit of trigger when people over
| exaggerate and self diagnose their 'serious' starbucks
| addiction lol as a joking example.
|
| not sure trigger is the word, but like more like a sigh when
| you have a life experience more similar to what you describe.
|
| like when a reddit thread gets literally 80% of people
| commenting they have self diagnosed adhd or ocd compulsions
| whatever. slaps face.
| BbzzbB wrote:
| Far from me the idea to downplay the horror that must be
| quitting a long-formed addiction to methamphetamine or
| heroin, but I think downplaying non-chemical addictions as
| "bad habits" is an unfair characterization as well.
|
| YMMV, but in my own experience for what it is worth, I've
| seen little difference and much parallel between quitting
| cigarettes (after 10 years of ~15 cigs/day), weed (after 11
| years of ~1-1.5g/day) and Internet time-wasters (.. a W.I.P.,
| many-to-most hours a day). Haven't gamed in a while now, but
| the loop of self-hatred and coping where each day you tell
| yourself "tomorrow is a new dawn" has felt eerily similar to
| each day telling yourself you're done smoking after this pack
| - which you make sure to finish so you wake-up without any
| left - until you're walking right back to the convenience
| store begrudgingly before noon. Rinse and repeat for months
| and years until, eventually, it actually sticks for some
| reason and you get past the first few months without giving
| in to your triggers (failing which you're basically back to
| square one). The pull to grab a smoke never really goes away,
| although it actually stinks after a few months, you just
| learn to tell yourself "no". The same way going to the
| dispensary remains tempting, but you remind yourself how it
| actually makes you feel after you smoke beyond the habitual
| dopamine hit. The same way reinstalling LoL or whatever gets
| tempting when you don't want to do what you need to do, but
| you manage to control yourself knowing you won't get any
| satisfaction from it.
|
| I know it sounds dumb, I know none of these are comparable to
| an opioid addiction (despite what some say about nicotine, I
| refuse to believe it is harder to quit then opioids) and I
| don't think I'm able to properly word how I'm trying to say
| w.r.t. addiction, but I really think, for myself, that my
| addictions acted in a very similar way on my psyche. They're
| all self-destructive ways (for me and my usage) of coping
| with my negative emotions and anxieties, the "pull" to each
| when trying to quit and the hoops my brain'd go through to
| justify giving in to a trigger felt very similar, chemical or
| not. If anything, quitting cigarettes was the "easiest" and
| avoiding wasting hours a day on unfulfilling Internet
| activities remains the hardest.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> I think downplaying non-chemical addictions as "bad
| habits" is an unfair characterization as well._
|
| Fair enough. I didn't feel that was appropriate, either, as
| I am _quite_ aware that these types of addictions can be
| very destructive.
|
| I can assure you, though, that considering them to be in
| the same category as a chronic alcoholic or drug addict is
| just as inaccurate, with the added caveat that calling it
| by the same name, "cheapens" the more serious type of
| addiction. That's one of the reasons that some folks get
| upset over calling people "Nazis," for doing things like
| being anal about the rules. They feel that it waters down
| the true horror of what the Nazis were really all about.
|
| Also, "Bad Habits" was a great album by The Monks _(2.0
| -UK- Version)_.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBtGNHkLt4E
| BbzzbB wrote:
| Dare I say, it is IMO odd you will agree to include
| gambling addiction in your original comment, but won't do
| the same for other types of addiction which don't fit in
| the same league as chronic meth use. If someone comes to
| you saying they didn't save a dime over 20 years and live
| in shame because they're compulsively gambling every
| evening even when their brain screams them not to, will
| you tell them they are not addicted because it cheapens
| the trouble of those that lost their families, houses and
| lives over worse gambling addictions? Nicotine is clearly
| chemically addictive, but it is no where near as life-
| disruptive as chronic alcohol or meth abuse (even health-
| wise with some methods of administrations), are they not
| addicted because they have it better than the other
| group?
|
| I get what you're saying, but I have a hard time agreeing
| we should be so stringent as to what we'll call addiction
| and not. If it's derailing your life, calling it a bad
| habit is reductive. I think addiction is a large enough
| spectrum that it can encompass both horrific and harsh
| addictions. It actually reminds me of all the stories I
| read about narcotics anonymous where people feel so
| unwelcome in those groups as their struggles get shrugged
| off by NA that they resort to going in AA groups
| pretending their coke addiction was booze as they are
| less judgemental groups.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> I read about narcotics anonymous where people feel so
| unwelcome in those groups as their struggles get shrugged
| off by NA that they resort to going in AA groups
| pretending their coke addiction was booze as they are
| less judgemental groups._
|
| I'd be extremely interested in learning a bit more about
| this, but I don't think that discussion of individual
| treatments is something I'll be pursuing in a public
| venue.
|
| Feel free to reach out to me. I have my info in my HN
| profile.
| BbzzbB wrote:
| It was something I came across online and not personally,
| I was curious so I read about it on forums for drug
| addicts and it seemed somewhat prevalent, at least not
| unique to the first post I read about it.
|
| I wanted to edit this in but since I'm late I'll do it
| here : I could very well be in the wrong with my stance
| on addiction as a term. Perhaps it is akin to me
| downplaying feminist or trans causes as a male (it's not
| something I do, just an example) to say we shouldn't
| reserve the term for worst cases. I say that from a
| stance where I think it is a prevalent problem in our
| society and we should be able to address it without tip-
| toeing around terminology. We should be able to talk
| about things like weed and obsessive phone-scrolling as
| potentially disruptive issues that can be proper
| psychological problems (and/or stemming from others like
| anxiety) which run deeper than mere bad habits.
|
| And thanks for your kind offer.
| exhilaration wrote:
| I feel that the word "compulsion" describes a good middle
| ground between bad habits and addiction.
|
| I like ice cream and chocolate chip cookies a little too much.
| It's not quite an addiction, but it's gone beyond a bad habit
| at this point.
| TonyRobbins wrote:
| I like this two points. Thank You for Sharing Valuable Tips.
|
| >There are 2 main things you can do to come to the realization
| that addiction is empty of satisfaction and that you actually
| don't want to do this anymore.
|
| Reflect on the cost of the addiction. Reflect on how it's not
| fulfilling you at all. How you feel after you've indulged.
| Pondering the personal negative effects that a specific behavior
| has on your life is a good initial step. Bonus points if you do
| this in writing. Abstain for a couple of days as an experiment.
| Remove a distracting app from your phone for a weekend. Plan a
| trip that will take you away from the environment that makes the
| addiction easy to engage in.
| mythrwy wrote:
| I liked this and will be the first to admit I have an information
| ingestion problem that the internet has made many times worse.
|
| In grade school I nearly failed a semester because I read books
| all day. It was obsessive. I didn't do my school work but knew
| all kinds of random facts. And even though my parents caught it
| and pulled me out I never did as well as I could have because at
| some level the issue persisted, even now and I'm 50 years old.
|
| It really has been a problem my entire life. I suspect it's kind
| of like the evolutionary desire for sugar. Useful when sugar was
| rare, deadly when sugar is cheap, refined and readily available.
| Same with the desire for information. We can only healthily
| process so much and we only need so much and it needs to be in
| the proper form.
|
| It's so bad sometimes I'll have multiple tabs open at a time
| paging back and forth at light speed, or listening to
| informational audio and trying to read at the same time. Or surf
| the net for 14 hours straight. Like a wino greedily slurping a
| bottle as fast as he can with another ready to go in the other
| hand.
|
| I never got into video games which always seemed like complete
| boring waste of time.
|
| The ironic thing is I never would have found the article if I
| weren't frantically scrolling HN looking for the keys to the
| universe.
| nickfromseattle wrote:
| >In grade school I nearly failed a semester because I read
| books all day. It was obsessive. I didn't do my school work but
| knew all kinds of random facts.
|
| This is a very familiar story.
|
| Even today it's still an issue. I have missed the gym, or been
| late to a social obligation hundreds of times due to getting
| stuck reading something.
|
| While the behavior does have negative impacts, I generally view
| it as a positive thing.
|
| I know a little about a lot, and I can generally have an
| engaging conversation with anyone, about the things they want
| to talk about.
|
| I think knowing a little about a lot also helps me in the
| periphery of the things I do go deep into.
|
| For example, I've read hundreds of articles on Hacker News
| about cyber security and have read countless comments by
| cynical devs explaining that companies don't take security
| seriously because it doesn't create revenue. Today as a non-
| technical founder, the security posture of my organization is
| 10x better than my peers (including technical founders) at
| similar sized (and even bigger!) orgs.
|
| You spoke specifically about the negative impacts - do you see
| any positive impacts?
| mythrwy wrote:
| Yep there are a lot of positive impacts. Like you, I feel I
| know a little about a lot of things.
|
| By the time I was in maybe 6'th grade I suspect I had better
| knowledge of world history, different cultures, ecology and a
| whole lot other topics then most of my teachers. At least at
| a superficial level. Even though a lot of books I was reading
| were fiction I knew a lot about the world. So (as you say) a
| lot of times when I need to know something I know where to
| look or have a baseline to start from. Also I think I
| understand how things fit together holistically better then
| average. And my research skills are pretty good, separating
| the wheat from the chaff and rapidly getting to the meat of a
| topic takes a lot less time then others I've noticed.
|
| But, it hasn't made me rich lol. Perhaps because I have too
| many interests and they aren't always the most immediately
| useful. And there have been other problems.
| anthk wrote:
| Just open http://68k.news and https://text.npr.org, ditch
| anything else. Read them just daily, for 20 minutes. Enough for
| news.
|
| On books, get adult mistery gamebooks, they are random enough
| to force yourself on your previous choices (and your
| character's skills) and having to improvise to win instead of
| being a static reader.
|
| EDIT: 68k URL.
| DarylZero wrote:
| LOL, top headline right now on text.npr.org is classic
| clickbait style:
|
| "Congress may change this arcane law to avoid another Jan. 6"
| mythrwy wrote:
| Right? That's a puzzling comment. Low level sweater wearing
| soft voiced .gov propaganda isn't usually high on my
| interest list.
|
| Although come to think of it, he might have a point. Maybe
| if I stuck with that I wouldn't be tempted to keep going
| back.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| IDK, most addicts I've known and talked to have said that
| addiction is often a symptom. That is, (typically) the substance
| is used to mask the pain.
|
| Taking away the substance doesn't cure the root pain. Truly
| quitting addiction means addressing the room cause(s).
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| I think you're right when it comes to many addictions. When we
| add in bad, unhealthy and suboptimal habits this is probably
| less universal, which unfortunately get labelled as
| "addicitions" in a lot of cases.
| mbrock wrote:
| I like the book "The Biology of Desire" on addiction. It views
| addiction as an instance of the same kind of desire-driven habit-
| forming learning that's the core of our motivational system. And
| so quitting an addiction is not exactly just quitting something
| bad. It's more like a continuation of one's general lifelong
| process of learning. This is a kinder framing and it's thoroughly
| neuroscientific. And it reveals that addictions are actually very
| clever behaviors in some ways--so we can even learn from them as
| we try to develop healthier habits to replace the ones that harm
| us. It's also a narrative perspective that respects the subject's
| life story. The addiction was a part in my troubled human
| journey. And now my narrative needs to find a new charge, a new
| quest, a new act. Maybe I was drawn into addiction in part
| because my life story didn't make sense, I felt disconnected from
| past and scared of the future, etc. Addictions also form around
| the need for connection: it's not just the beer, it's the pub. So
| I have to find other social contexts that center around something
| that doesn't harm me.
| justinator wrote:
| Thank you for sharing your book recommendation! I'm going to
| seek it out.
| mbrock wrote:
| I heard about the book in this lecture by John Vervaeke, so
| you might be interested in that too!
|
| https://youtu.be/vGB8k7jk1AQ
| refurb wrote:
| I like to draw a comparison to obsessive compulsive behavior.
| The compulsion (which is often what drives use and relapse) is
| a learned behavior and one that is reinforced by the reward.
|
| People with OCD often find the obsessive and repetitive
| behavior helps with anxiety, although the anxiety ends up
| reduced in the short-term, it worsens in the long term as the
| behaviors have negative consequences of their own (disruptive
| and time consuming, interfering with normal life activities,
| shame for lack of self-control).
|
| We wouldn't tell someone with OCD to just "quit doing that"
| (and for the person it would just increase anxiety to stop
| doing what helps their anxiety), but provide an alternative
| that addresses the core cause of the behavior (anxiety) and
| "unlearns" the harmful behavior, replacing it with self-help
| tools to address the core problems (anxiety) in ways that are
| less harmful and likely more effective in the long term. That
| can be done through a number of approaches, none of which are
| surefire and often take a few attempts.
| mbrock wrote:
| Oh yeah, the book also describes the craving itself as an
| essential part of the addiction. It's not just that the drug
| or whatever is so immensely pleasing when you take it, it's
| also that the whole cycle of wanting, pursuing, and getting
| is addictive in itself. It's a whole "dark liturgy." Strong
| craving for a well-known thing might be preferable to vague
| indeterminate anxiety, or it might be a way to occupy one's
| mind to avoid seeing something traumatic. Chasing a target is
| a thrill in itself.
| alexilliamson wrote:
| These three comments really hit home. Thanks!
| sirspacey wrote:
| I found this helpful, thanks for sharing. I'm checking out the
| book.
|
| I've noticed finding ways to make my experience more friendly,
| easy, and kind seems to make the most progress in assessing
| patterns.
|
| Best quote I've heard on addiction:
|
| "Addiction is getting more of something than you want."
| boppo1 wrote:
| I have the problem that my addiction (scrolling 4chan* and HN for
| hours) has materially added value to my life. I've been
| introduced to books and resources and technical advice that I've
| found nowhere else. But I have trouble controlling the amount of
| time I spend browsing.
|
| *4chan is full of hate, but if you grew up with it and have a
| sort of auto-filter, there are surprising things there. I would
| not have read (and deeply enjoyed) Moby Dick if not for 4chan.
| Weird. This is not a recommendation though, generally speaking,
| avoid the place at all costs.
| raunak wrote:
| How can I get value out of 4chan? Browsing b fit and pol
| doesn't really do anything for me. What should I do instead?
| boppo1 wrote:
| > How can I get value out of 4chan?
|
| Leave. Seriously. Don't visit if you can help it. There are
| other, better places to go now. I only visit because I'm
| semi-involuntarily hooked.
|
| If you instead mean to ask "It's hard for me to imagine
| anything positive coming out of 4chan. How did you get value
| out of that site?":
|
| I prefer to remain anonymous and won't describe my hobbies in
| detail, but among other things I was pointed to new (to me)
| bands, books and study resources, sometimes quite obscure.
| The 'what I read, what I expected, what I got' memes
| persuaded me to read literature that I ignored when it was
| suggested elsewhere. I learned a lot about computers on /g/,
| a lot about cars on /o/, etc. Iirc, those communities were
| developed earlier than their reddit counterparts. There may
| have been other car forums, but they weren't as funny.
| Additionally, the site was always hateful, but much less so
| than it is now.
|
| I suppose also that it helped with my lonliness. For many
| years I found 4chan, at it's best, to be a much more sincere
| place than other more moderated communities. Elsewhere,
| someone might get banned for a clear and honest opinion on my
| post if it is unkind. On 4chan, someone might insist that I
| kill myself.
|
| So if I made a post on 4chan and the worst I got was 'you're
| stupid', or even positivity, I knew it was genuine because
| that person had the other options available. Elsewhere, I was
| not so sure.
| reidjs wrote:
| I feel the same way about HN. I feel like I've learned a lot
| about technology, software, entrepreneurship from this site.
| But it would far more valuable to have spent the majority of
| those hours reading books, learning new skills, networking, or
| even just being more focused at work. It's tough to find
| balance.
| ip26 wrote:
| An aggregator like Feedly is really good in this regard; you
| can set up sources of interest, add filters, and then-
| critically- when you reach the end of your feeds for the day,
| you're _done_.
|
| Something like hackernews or reddit is more endless, without
| a neatly defined "stop". (Of course, I'm still here)
| BbzzbB wrote:
| Consider something like Cold Turkey, the paid version (one-time
| fee) has an included scheduler if you can't trust yourself to
| turn it on when you'd need to. If you don't want to pay for it,
| the free version includes CLI operations, you can make your own
| scheduler script without too much trouble.
|
| HN has an included time limiter in the options.. but nothing
| stops you from launching it in incognito so it's only useful as
| far as you have willpower.
| tayo42 wrote:
| >*4chan is full of hate, but if you grew up with it and have a
| sort of auto-filter, there are surprising things there. I would
| not have read (and deeply enjoyed) Moby Dick if not for 4chan.
| Weird. This is not a recommendation though, generally speaking,
| avoid the place at all costs.
|
| I wonder if your in some kind of local maximum, i bet if you
| stopped wasting time on 4chan you would find other things that
| make your life richer. like you just dont know how much value
| can be added to your life from other things, especially ones
| that wont require so much filtering on your part
| boppo1 wrote:
| I've quit for up to a month at a time here and there. Where I
| don't fill that hole with a similar diversion and instead one
| of my productive hobbies, my life indeed becomes much richer.
| Although, my participation some of those hobbies were very
| much improved by some of the time spent on 4chan.
|
| Altogether, I intend to quit visiting. Hopefully sooner than
| later. I 'quit' rather frequently. The best comparison I can
| make for my compulsive usage is to someone who started
| smoking before they were 10. I was heavily browsing forums by
| 8 and 4chan by 12.
| max002 wrote:
| I think article says its a matter of decission. Once you take
| hard stance/decission its a matter of time amd retries.
|
| Goos tip is to find replacemet, a healthy one. You can get
| addicted to gentle (not stupid) weight lifting, running (please,
| on grass, not on cement or next to road full of cars, not on
| asfalt, its not good for your knees and lungs) reading a book.
|
| Replace it with hobby that you like or put that time into
| something you wanted to do, but never had time.
| jimmyvalmer wrote:
| Problem: I'm a dipole preferring this orientation.
|
| Article's solution: Don't be a dipole.
|
| I believe Ben Affleck of all people nailed it on his recent
| Howard Stern appearance. _The cure for addiction is suffering_.
| thom wrote:
| Something that has helped me kick some bad but undeniably
| comforting habits in the last year is keeping actual data. For a
| few months I logged simple stuff, like whether or not I'd imbibed
| alcohol, how much sleep I'd got, whatever. And on the other side
| I'd track simple subjective measures of my mood and energy. I put
| all this into some simple linear regressions and the evidence was
| so overwhelmingly clear that it became very hard to convince
| myself that staying up until 1am was the only way to have quality
| 'me time', or having a boozy night with my wife was the only way
| to fully relax.
|
| I don't really go for quantified self stuff generally, I do quite
| like living intuitively as much as I can. But sometimes you do
| need to call yourself on your own bullshit.
| netizen-936824 wrote:
| I'm glad you noticed the down sides, most people don't get to
| see that different perspective. Alcohol does a serious number
| on us without us realizing it. Alcohol really doesn't help us
| relax (besides in the few hours after consumption) and induces
| _more_ stress over the long term
|
| Personally my cannabis use patterns can mess with my sleep,
| I've noticed how much by simply using a sports band sleep
| tracker. Its surprisingly accurate at predicting my overall
| energy levels
| thom wrote:
| Yeah, two things highly correlated with overdoing alcohol for
| me are worse sleep (irrespective of going to bed early, I'll
| sometimes get reflux for example) and clearest of all are
| anxiety attacks. I'll sometimes wake up with a sense of
| unshakeable doom (which in turn could lead to some suboptimal
| behaviours), but cutting out booze reduces these occurrences
| basically to _zero_, even on my worst, most stressful days
| thinking about problems at home or work.
|
| Not going to claim it's all been plain sailing, and I don't
| really want or intend to maintain a permanent state of
| sobriety, but the article certainly matches my experience,
| and having hard evidence really helps.
| C19is20 wrote:
| I can recommend apps like kubios (my fav), hrv4 and elite hr (I
| use all three daily). Coupled with even a cheap heart rate
| monitor, you can see the effects of 'everything' on your body/
| soul as well as track sleep etc. Oura rings do similar, but
| they're subscription based.
| netizen-936824 wrote:
| I second this. These monitors are invaluable for gaining
| insight into how we're doing health and stress-wise
| BbzzbB wrote:
| Any recommendation for a decent but cheap tracker?
| TheAdamAndChe wrote:
| I've got the Garmin Forerunner 45s, I like it a lot. It's
| got a built in GPS, so you can track your runs without
| bringing a phone.
| nefitty wrote:
| I tracked every minute of my time several years ago, for about
| a year. The shock of how much time I was spending playing
| Battlefield is what helped me kick video games.
| aenis wrote:
| Ha! Had the exact same problem - and same solution. 650hrs on
| bf2 alone.
|
| One can learn a new language in less time.
| nefitty wrote:
| Thinking of BF2 still gets my blood pumping all these years
| later lol
| _huayra_ wrote:
| The best way to change your habits is to really understand and
| appreciate what they're doing for you. You're not running towards
| whatever your procrastination mechanism of choice may be; you're
| running _away_ from something else. This is why procrastinating
| has that tepid feeling of boredom, as you don't really want to
| click onto the next video / reddit / HN page, but you feel
| compelled to do so.
|
| I highly recommend How We Change [0]. It was the first book in my
| long journey of trying to "read my self out of my depression"
| that was really insightful. It lays out why people choose to not
| change (tethered by their procrastination or other habits they
| deem to be fruitless), and only by seeing and appreciating that
| _fear of hope_ can you start to approach the (at times) extremely
| difficult task of authoring your life.
|
| [0] https://www.harpercollins.com/products/how-we-change-ross-
| el...
| aaron695 wrote:
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