[HN Gopher] Show HN: Radar Chat - Geolocation based communication
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       Show HN: Radar Chat - Geolocation based communication
        
       Author : tlhunter
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2022-01-07 16:45 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (app.radar.chat)
 (TXT) w3m dump (app.radar.chat)
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | That would have been fun back in the early days of the internet,
       | before commerce and trolls ruined it. I'm not willing to trust my
       | location information like that any more. I'm both sorry and sad.
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | The internet certainly isn't what it used to be.
        
       | tlhunter wrote:
       | Radar Chat allows users to leave digital messages that are
       | attached to physical world locations. Most messages can only be
       | seen if you're physically close to them which can be used to make
       | scavenger hunts.
       | 
       | My first customers non-profits in the STEM space who are using
       | Radar Chat to tag the businesses they partner with (Planetariums,
       | Science Museums, etc). When students visit these places they can
       | then check into them (if they're close enough) and get entered to
       | win a prize. Here's an example of a STEM customer channel:
       | 
       | https://app.radar.chat/#/channel/glbra-stem-pipeline
       | 
       | Paying customers unlock additional features like permanent
       | messages, always-visible messages, and messages that can be
       | checked in to. Non-paying users are able to leave messages that
       | have a maximum radius and an expiration time.
       | 
       | I do server programming by trade so any feedback on the UX would
       | be greatly appreciated!
       | 
       | Edit: Here's a link to the website with marketing information. It
       | describes the produce a bit more than what's available in this
       | post:
       | 
       | https://radar.chat/
        
       | sharikous wrote:
       | In Israel there is an app called "Pillar of cloud" (`mvd `nn)
       | which is somewhat similar.
       | 
       | It's invaluable for hiking and exploring places. I guess it is
       | moderated however, since I never saw spam there.
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | Just looked it up, "`mvd `nn" seems pretty cool for trail
         | hikes!
         | 
         | I do hope people use Radar Chat for hiking as well. They could
         | put down markers for trail heads and stuff. But, the biggest
         | differentiator with Radar Chat is that they can put down timely
         | information, such as a tree being down, a trail being washed
         | out, etc.
        
       | pelagicAustral wrote:
       | Mate, I live an hour and half from Antarctica, I'm never going to
       | see a message hahaha
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | I also limit the Longitude to +85 / -85, so there's even a
         | technical limitation around your area!
        
         | mritchie712 wrote:
         | Where do you live?
        
           | pelagicAustral wrote:
           | Falkland Islands
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | Doesn't appear to work on Firefox at all.
        
         | mgbmtl wrote:
         | You have to click the Firefox Hamburger menu, then "install
         | app" (to create a launcher). Then it seems to work correctly.
         | 
         | I was also a bit confused because the home page buttons theming
         | seems broken, and I had not read the instructions.
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | Firefox is my main browser! What issues are you having?
         | 
         | If you've disabled geolocation access then Radar Chat is
         | basically dead in the water.
        
           | smegsicle wrote:
           | you don't fall back to geoip?
        
             | tlhunter wrote:
             | Once I get some revenue I'll purchase a subscription to a
             | geoip service.
             | 
             | That said, we can only really use it to show a vague
             | position for the user. Since everything is so precise (some
             | message can only be seen if you're within 10m of them) the
             | geoip data isn't as useful as one might think.
        
       | technological wrote:
       | How do you plan to remove or flag false information ? Like for
       | example someone intentionally leave message which is not true or
       | causes harm ?
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | I'll add a button to messages to flag/report them in the
         | upcoming weeks.
         | 
         | For individual channels the goal is to allow administrators to
         | moderate them, kinda like with Reddit.
         | 
         | For global channels it'll probably end up being me doing all
         | the moderation until I can hire someone to do it.
         | 
         | I also plan on importing Open Street Map data on school
         | properties and then preventing most users from being able to
         | post messages within such boundaries.
        
       | donclark wrote:
       | I want to say that I saw a similar app within the last 2 months.
       | I do remember this one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yik_Yak
        
       | manx wrote:
       | Interesting idea! I'm wondering if this would also work in higher
       | dimensional spaces, like embeddings. Or is this just social
       | media? :D
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | It actually wasn't until about 4 years in to working on this
         | that someone told me "it's basically social media". Certainly
         | that wasn't my goal when I set out!
         | 
         | My early customers have channels that only administrators can
         | write to so the paying use-cases aren't as social media.
         | 
         | I do hope to open the service up for more use cases outside of
         | mobile apps. For example, it would be pretty cool if my
         | customers could embed their maps on their website via iframe.
         | 
         | The #sf-311 channel retrieves data from an external API, and so
         | posting already isn't limited to the app (the data is all
         | proximity based so you can't see incidents unless you're
         | nearby):
         | 
         | https://app.radar.chat/#/channel/sf-311
        
       | senden9 wrote:
       | Reminds me of Jodel. Just that here I can select the loudness and
       | on Jodel it so controlled by the App based on thinks like number
       | of posts around you.
       | 
       | https://about.jodel.com/
        
       | clbrook wrote:
       | It's a bit like Tosslet. https://www.tosslet.com/
       | 
       | Edit: But with Tosslet you don't need to (get to?) have an
       | account to see (catch) messages or provide any other information
       | (e.g. email). We have a privacy-first focus and don't require or
       | allow the use of your actual location (gps).
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I'm the developer of Tosslet
        
         | 5rb42zi3th wrote:
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | I like your monetization strategy and how it combats spam!
        
           | clbrook wrote:
           | Thanks!
        
         | clbrook wrote:
         | To the newly created [dead] account that I can't respond to,
         | you are correct that typical usage would be to download the
         | app, however, there is a Start Exploring webpage that you can
         | search on to just see messages without the app:
         | https://www.tosslet.com/Home/StartExploring
        
       | axby wrote:
       | This is really well done, I like the UX and the messaging
       | categories. I also like how you allow creating an account with
       | just an email and the received auth code. Also very refreshing to
       | try something as a web app and not have to install anything just
       | to try it.
       | 
       | It might be cool to show a rough estimate of how many people are
       | able to hear your messages? I tried shouting to my entire city
       | but I noticed the global channel had around 78 subscribers, so I
       | figured it was unlikely that anyone heard my message.
       | 
       | It would also be great at this stage to let you see a history of
       | messages received in your location while you were away.
       | 
       | Also maybe let people send or at least listen to messages
       | anywhere in the world, at this early stage? I'd love to see if
       | anyone in my hometown is using this, but I don't live there
       | anymore. Maybe you could set up a limited number of spots that
       | you always get messages for? Say your home, work, etc.
       | 
       | Awesome job! Looking forward to updates. (If you have an RSS feed
       | or something then I'd love to subscribe to it).
        
       | diggum wrote:
       | About 10 years ago, I taught myself web programming by writing
       | https://dirtywalls.com which is still up and which occasionally I
       | still see used by a handful of the folks I shared it with back
       | then. Same basic idea: pseudonymous message boards attached to
       | real-world locations, where you must be within a certain
       | proximity to read or post.
       | 
       | The concept at the time was "4chan meets foursquare." and the
       | inspiration was rediscovering some graffiti in a bar bathroom
       | that years before had particularly tickled some friends and I.
       | For awhile, I added new locations as I traveled extensively for
       | work, so there are hidden little message boards around NYC, SF,
       | China, Seattle, Europe...
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | Threaded replies is actually the biggest feature on our
         | roadmap!
         | 
         | I do love the idea of "hidden messages", invisible communities
         | that only a few will ever see.
        
           | diggum wrote:
           | Lots of possibilities, for sure. I liked the idea of a public
           | layer as well as private or protected layers for every space.
           | Patrons of a restaurant could chat on the public board for
           | that location, while employees might bitch anonymously about
           | management or warn each other of problematic customers on the
           | private space. Or residents of an apartment building could
           | complain about noisy neighbors or neglecting landlords
           | without it being completely public.
           | 
           | My concept had a sort of anarchic bent at the time, so
           | anonymity and fighting the man was the guiding principles in
           | theory, but as I was only just learning JavaScript and PHP,
           | ideals were going to be a later development and design phase
           | than I ever achieved ;)
        
       | tpoacher wrote:
       | > There really isn't anything else out there
       | 
       | I've seen about a dozen apps that do just this. Here's one I used
       | to use, called Kites: (https://www.krishan711.com/).
       | 
       | It was a very nice app, but the network effect was missing, and
       | eventually the novelty wore off. Which presumably is also why its
       | creator pulled it from the appstore.
       | 
       | I wish you luck, I still think it's a good idea. But beware that
       | there may be a good reason why you can't find "anything else like
       | it out there" at the moment...
        
       | itake wrote:
       | reminds me of:
       | 
       | https://www.theverge.com/2014/5/9/5699794/whatsapplebees-par...
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | That's great ;)
         | 
         | I was only able to find a few direct competitors in my
         | searches. They were mostly shut down with their apps no longer
         | in the app stores.
        
       | orev wrote:
       | Be careful using this for things like prizes, as people _will_
       | use tools that allow them to spoof locations to see the messages
       | in that area.
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | Absolutely, geo-spoofing is going to be one of the biggest
         | enemies for this product.
         | 
         | I will say though that my early customers are giving away
         | prizes that are only useful to locals, like coupons to offline
         | stores, so I'm hoping that'll keep most cheaters at bay.
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | Probably this is way outside the scope of what you are doing now,
       | but some sort of augmented reality phone viewer for these
       | messages would be super neat and really emphasis the physicality
       | (sort of like in the game Dark Souls, haha).
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | Just imagine spraying virtual graffiti on a building!
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | That would be fun. And socially responsible, no real world
           | cleanup.
           | 
           | One thing that made the game system work though, I think, was
           | that they gave a very limited selection of phrases to
           | combine. So you'd have a list of descriptions (dangerous,
           | look out for, incredible, safe) and things (chest, monster,
           | door, room). So people could put something like "look out for
           | monster" to indicate an ambush, or "dangerous chest" to
           | indicate a loot-chest that is trapped. Limited vocabulary
           | mostly* kept the unpleasant** trolling to a minimum
           | 
           | * people would occasionally put "incredible chest" in front
           | of female NPCs, which was not the intended use of the
           | messaging feature!
           | 
           | ** leaving an "safe room" message in front of a trapped
           | corridor full of monsters was, of course, entirely in the
           | spirit of the game.
        
       | hunterb123 wrote:
       | Ah like YikYak, but more precise locations.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | And all the problems, like bomb threats dropped near schools
         | via spoofed GPS locations.
        
           | hunterb123 wrote:
           | Moderation is needed for any communication platform.
           | 
           | Flag all keywords you would need to do a bomb threat for
           | review.
           | 
           | Preferably have a client side filter, like profanity, so
           | users can customize to their liking and you aren't censoring
           | too heavily.
           | 
           | Some server side filtering for illegal messages like threats.
           | 
           | Open mod logs for even more transparency.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | YikYak found out how immensely difficult that is. So have
             | Facebook and Twitter, despite billions of dollars to throw
             | at such problems.
             | 
             | There was a link a few days ago on the HN front page that
             | rather humorously covered the difficulty of this.
             | http://habitatchronicles.com/2007/03/the-untold-history-
             | of-t...
             | 
             | "We thought it was the perfect solution, until we set our
             | first 14-year old boy down in front of it. Within minutes
             | he'd created the following sentence: I want to stick my
             | long-necked Giraffe up your fluffy white bunny. "
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | Does it really matter if messages like that get through?
               | 
               | Client side AI filters can attempt to get rid of raunchy
               | messages.
               | 
               | Keyword filters and flagging for things like threats can
               | stop the illegal stuff.
               | 
               | Don't try to over censor and nanny state people.
               | 
               | edit: to clarify, messages "like that" refer to the kid's
               | message in your above post.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | > Does it really matter if messages like that get
               | through?
               | 
               | When they're veiled bomb threats against schools, yes.
               | That gets media and regulatory attention that kills the
               | brand - again, as YikYak quickly found out.
               | 
               | > Keyword filters and flagging for things like threats
               | can stop the illegal stuff.
               | 
               | Again, the idea that keyword filters can handle this is
               | silly. It was silly a decade ago. The big social networks
               | have invested enormous time, money, and effort into
               | increasingly sophisticated AI... and the result is people
               | still get incorrectly and absurdly flagged for innocuous
               | posts while clearly offending ones slip through.
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | My friend mentioned YikYak as a potential competitor to me
         | several months ago. I tried to install their app but I think
         | they had taken it down for a few months.
         | 
         | Fast forward and YikYak does have some similarities. The main
         | differences are that YikYak has a universal 5 mile radius, all
         | messages are in the same "namespace", and they're anonymous,
         | plus no map. I'm sure they anonymize the posting location with
         | jitter to promote anonymity.
         | 
         | Radar Chat definitely caters to a different use-case with the
         | precision of the post being important. If you leave a "whisper"
         | message (L1), it has a radius of around 10 meters, which isn't
         | as useful for shouting ideas to the masses like YikYak.
        
       | fer wrote:
       | I like how the longer the range, the shorter the persistence. It
       | should keep messages relevant.
       | 
       | Is there any spam control in place?
        
         | tlhunter wrote:
         | I'm glad you noticed! The idea behind the inverse radius and
         | duration relationship was that each specific message might only
         | be seen by, say, 100 people. Certainly hoping this reduces
         | spammy messages.
        
       | nathias wrote:
       | Cool concept, but the UI is terrible on desktop.
        
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