[HN Gopher] Unidentified PC DOS 1.1 Boot Sector Junk Identified
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       Unidentified PC DOS 1.1 Boot Sector Junk Identified
        
       Author : kencausey
       Score  : 113 points
       Date   : 2022-01-07 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.os2museum.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.os2museum.com)
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | _The first person to make this discovery (as far as we can tell)
       | was Daniel B. Sedory aka The Starman, whose illustrated PC DOS
       | 1.1 boot sector page is much nicer than anything I could put
       | together._
       | 
       | I highly recommend his site too --- there's plenty of boot-sector
       | analyses there, explanations of the PC boot process, and other
       | low-level information presented in fast-loading, script-free ad-
       | free HTML from someone whose goal isn't to make a quick $$$, but
       | rather to share information freely. In other words, a great
       | resource of the "document web".
       | 
       | As for this article, it also reminds me of "junk DNA" sequences,
       | which could have similar relevance to biological historians.
        
       | iforgotmypass wrote:
       | Perhaps someone could help out solve my 20 year old mystery? When
       | I was a kid, I had briefly access to a computer. My memory might
       | be mistaken on the details, but I just can't find on Google what
       | kind of computer it was. It had 5 inch floppies, I am pretty sure
       | that games on it only used four colors (cyan, magenta, white,
       | black). I think it had joystick similar to Atari's. It had Bubble
       | Bobble game.
       | 
       | Edit: Photos of Commodore computers look really close to what I
       | remember, but not exactly. Also, Latvia (where I live) just
       | recently had regained independece from USSR and it was a time
       | when the market was flooded with clones for everything. E.g.
       | instead of NES kids had famiclones like Zhiliton, UFO or in my
       | case, I think it was Dendy.
       | 
       | Edit: Floppy reader was in-built, not external, as far as I
       | remember.
       | 
       | Edit: Sorry, more like 30-year mystery. Somewhere around
       | beginning of 90s.
       | 
       | Edit: I think it also had game Alley Cat.
       | 
       | Edit: Thank you everyone for chiming in! This inspired me and
       | gave extra keywords for further investigation and narrowing down
       | the exact model / make. Gonna continue searching on Sunday.
        
         | thanatos519 wrote:
         | https://www.retro-exo.com/exodos.html has
         | "eXoDOS/eXo/eXoDOS/Bubble Bobble (1988).zip" which you could
         | try with DOSBox. Other commenters mentioned that the DOS
         | screenshots use the red/green/yellow CGA palette but plenty of
         | CGA games switched video modes for a tiny extra bit of variety.
        
           | thanatos519 wrote:
           | I just played it and it's pretty fun. If I force CGA mode,
           | the Taito title screen is in white/cyan/magenta but the rest
           | of the game (first two levels at least) are in
           | yellow/green/red.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | On that note, does anyone know whether the original IBM TTL
           | monitors supported "hardware emulation" of alternative
           | palettes?
           | 
           | On a compatible Amptron(?) display we had, the brightness and
           | contrast pots had an integrated switch. If you pulled on the
           | brightness adjuster, it switched to a green-black monochrome
           | palette, while the contrast control switched it to the red-
           | green-yellow palette.
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | Could it have been a BBC Micro?
         | 
         | They look a little the commodore but have 8 colours from memory
         | though...
         | 
         | Right time period.
         | 
         | Some had a built in joystick i think from memory but can't find
         | any photos from a quick search.
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | Alley Cat also ran on the PCjr: https://oldcomputers.net/ibm-
         | pcjr.html
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | Check here: https://computerhistory.org/
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | That sounds like CGA. Could have been any IBM compatible, can
         | you describe the shape of the case and whether or not the
         | floppy drive(s) were built in or external?
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | I think we need a little more info, roughy date, location?
         | 
         | Some computers were very regional.
        
         | mewse-hn wrote:
         | You could click through the different platforms bubble bobble
         | was released for on mobygames to see which one looks familiar.
         | The DOS version seems to have had a CGA 4-color mode but it
         | wasn't cyan/magenta. Amstrad CPC looks like a candidate:
         | 
         | https://www.mobygames.com/game/cpc/bubble-bobble/screenshots
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | The colors sound like normal PC CGA graphics, but the joystick
         | sounds like maybe a PCjr (or compatible), which, IIRC,
         | sometimes came with a joystick, since the machine itself had
         | built-in joystick ports. The CGA graphics could be explained by
         | the games being written for PC CGA graphics, and not the
         | better, but obscure, PCjr graphics.
         | 
         | But... 20 years? That's like, 2002. PCs were abundant then, and
         | CGA graphics were already ancient, and use of joysticks in
         | games were already relatively uncommon; mouse & keyboards were
         | the norm.
        
       | jonny_eh wrote:
       | Is PC DOS the predecessor to MS-DOS, made strictly for IBM? How
       | many versions were there and when did Microsoft change it?
        
         | thanatos519 wrote:
         | It was IBM's OEM version of MS-DOS, more or less.
         | 
         | Random Google result:
         | https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/classics-rock/my-dos-versi...
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | Yes. PC DOS 7.1 was the last version, i.e. it continued
         | development in parallel with MS-DOS. The whole history can be
         | found here [1]. All versions including their amazing (they're
         | really good) manuals are available on WinWorld [2].
         | 
         | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_DOS
         | 
         | 2. https://winworldpc.com/product/pc-dos/1x
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | There's a version table on Wikipedia, probably.
         | 
         | The history of DOS is actually really complicated, arguably
         | even moreso than UNIX, so apologies for the mess I'm about to
         | throw upon you. Because, before we can even talk about DOS, we
         | need to talk about two other technologies IBM wanted in their
         | new PC: CP/M and BASIC. CP/M was the closest thing to a
         | standard disk operating system in the microcomputer world, and
         | BASIC was the JavaScript of the 1980s. IBM absolutely needed
         | both if they wanted to sell computers.
         | 
         | Microsoft was involved with the IBM PC because IBM needed a
         | BASIC interpreter. The OS would have come from Digital
         | Research. But, there was a problem: IBM wanted to use Intel's
         | 8088 chip. CP/M only worked on the incompatible[0], older 8080,
         | and CP/M-86 had been delayed for so long that a company called
         | Seattle Computer Products (SCP[1]) started writing their own
         | 8086 DOS instead. They called it the Quick and Dirty Operating
         | System (QDOS). Bill Gates got wind of IBM's OS problems, bought
         | SCP and QDOS, and sold it to IBM so the PC could ship on time
         | with an OS: "The IBM Personal Computer DOS", or "PC-DOS".
         | 
         | So, to answer your first question strictly; PC-DOS was not made
         | for IBM. It was made for SCP's own S-100 machines first.
         | However, in a sense, it _was_ made for IBM, in that Microsoft
         | made plenty of customizations for them and it contains drivers
         | specific to IBM machines. Bill Gates stipulated that they 'd
         | retain ownership of the OS; but the intended licensing model
         | was for other PC vendors to buy the source code and customize
         | it to their own, incompatible architectures. This was the
         | licensing model CP/M used[2]; such a machine would be DOS-
         | compatible but not run any IBM software.
         | 
         | Later on, of course, Compaq was able to legally reimplement the
         | IBM BIOS, creating an "IBM-compatible" machine; and then
         | everyone else in the industry figured out how to do the same
         | and drastically undercut IBM. So MS-DOS was eventually turned
         | from an OEM licensable into a consumer software product that
         | would work on a "standard PC". Digital Research also got into
         | the consumer OS market with DR-DOS, which Microsoft
         | contemplated killing through underhanded tactics[3] but was
         | able to outcompete by better OEM relationships. There's also
         | legally distinct reimplementations of MS-DOS _itself_ , such as
         | DIP-DOS, X-DOS, and later FreeDOS.
         | 
         | [0] Blame Federico Faggin jumping ship and taking the patents
         | with him. Or the Intel manager who demanded he show up to work
         | on time.
         | 
         | [1] Not a front for the SCP Foundation. Or, at least that's
         | what THEY want you to know!
         | 
         | [2] This licensing model also persisted into early Windows;
         | there are special OEM versions of Windows 1.0 that run on
         | Zenith Data Systems machines. It's also the reason why OS/2 1.x
         | comes in "IBM" and "Microsoft" flavors. Microsoft OS/2 was more
         | of a devkit for OEMs who were expected to customize OS/2 in the
         | same way that they were supposed to customize DOS. But it also
         | shipped with technologies that IBM OS/2 didn't have, like LADDR
         | - pluggable disk I/O drivers that would later be reworked into
         | Windows 95.
         | 
         | I should also note that the "DOS-compatible" business model
         | looks a lot like Android fragmentation if you squint at it a
         | little. Remember how I said this was more complicated than
         | UNIX?
         | 
         | [3] The idea was to have Windows 2 or 3 throw fake, non-fatal
         | error messages at the user if it was running on DR-DOS.
        
       | jasonpeacock wrote:
       | I love this. This is what makes the internet the beautiful,
       | amazing place that it is - anyone can publish and you get these
       | highly specialized, well-written, informative articles on
       | esoteric topics.
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | Especially stuff you might have come across 40 years ago and
         | it's been sitting at the back of your brain ever since.
         | 
         | I recently closed a 20-something year mystery to do with a
         | weird TV advert from the UK in the late 90s. I could never
         | figure out why a certain poster for a musician was on the wall
         | in a room. Fast forward to 2021 and I managed to hunt down the
         | writer of the advert who had some background info, and then put
         | me in touch with the director and we figured it out and had a
         | laugh about it. And I contacted the musician who was very happy
         | to also have the mystery closed. It's nice to check off a
         | 20-year-old item on your TO DO list.
        
           | jnsie wrote:
           | That sounds really interesting. Any chance you could share
           | more details?
        
             | thom wrote:
             | Very much seconded!
        
             | creeble wrote:
             | 3rded!
        
           | LaserDiscMan wrote:
           | This is exactly why I miss IMDB's "I need to know" board. You
           | could post a partially correct memory snippet from decades
           | ago and someone would chime in with the answer. I had
           | memories of movies I'd watched on TV as a young child. I had
           | no name or context, but simply little moments stuck in my
           | brain, and someone was able to resolve those to a title.
           | 
           | The closing of the IMDB message boards was a terrible loss
           | IMO. You could visit an obscure actors message board, and you
           | might run into someone who knew them. You could discuss a
           | movie's intricacies with someone, and share theories, etc, on
           | the specific board for that movie. It was a goldmine for
           | movie fans, and I still miss it.
        
             | jorvi wrote:
             | I wish there was something like that for books.
             | 
             | I remember reading a book in my youth about a kid that
             | lived in a shielded city with an AI controlling it with the
             | assignment to keep everyone 'happy' (= docile). He/she
             | breaks protocol and gets ejected through a trash chute.
             | Meets an old man. Crossed a wasteland and finds old ruins,
             | learns something and then blows up the shielding of the
             | city to make it free again.
             | 
             | In the Dutch translation either the old man or the main
             | character was called 'gull' or 'sea gull'. I've posted on a
             | few subreddits and forums with people pretty much ignoring,
             | and I have scoured Google without much results neither.
        
               | quercusa wrote:
               | Try
               | https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-
               | ident... - they solve this kind of thing all the time.
        
               | abbeyj wrote:
               | Maybe
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Fall_of_Night
               | or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_and_the_Stars ?
               | Also sounds similar to
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan%27s_Run but doesn't
               | quite match.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | I've had the same with some music and even from pretty
             | vague descriptions about tempo and content some people were
             | able to find a couple of pieces that I thought I'd never
             | hear again.
        
             | abbeyj wrote:
             | You might want to try
             | https://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/
        
           | ComputerGuru wrote:
           | There's a really good NPR podcast about this very kind of
           | thing, where there's a guy who's been hunting down a
           | particular "musical tone" for more than a decade, and it
           | talks both about how hard it is to be the kind of person that
           | _needs_ those answers, the process of arriving at an answer
           | (including many, many false starts and red herrings), and the
           | satisfaction that comes from figuring it out.
           | 
           | I don't want to spoil it, but the tremendous tragedy/irony is
           | that a certain class of people within the IT industry could
           | have answered the guy's question (or at least put him
           | definitively on the right track) after hearing it just one
           | time, which I think is actually a really important lesson to
           | fully internalize: whatever thing that's been
           | haunting/daunting you, if you get lucky enough to just
           | mention it in front of that one right person you'll be
           | immediately closer to an answer than if you spent literally
           | ten years chasing it without their insight.
           | 
           | I'm not a huge podcast (or any audio/visual media) advocate,
           | but this one is worth listening to if you're stuck in the car
           | or something:
           | 
           | https://www.thisamericanlife.org/516/stuck-in-the-
           | middle/act...
        
             | Hallucinaut wrote:
             | If you like that one, you may enjoy this one too (which has
             | much more of a mystery to it imho)
             | https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/o2h8bx
        
               | pilsetnieks wrote:
               | I was listening to that episode while riding a bus and I
               | was almost screaming internally the whole time. I knew
               | exactly what that song was and by whom, and had a dusty
               | old low quality mp3 still on some harddrive at home,
               | possibly acquired through less than legal means at least
               | some 15 years ago.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-01-07 23:00 UTC)