[HN Gopher] The Last Wild Lions of Europe
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The Last Wild Lions of Europe
Author : CapitalistCartr
Score : 104 points
Date : 2022-01-05 12:40 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sapiens.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sapiens.org)
| denton-scratch wrote:
| > Peloponnesian settlement of Aigeira, in what is now
| northwestern Greece
|
| The Peloponessus does not include the northwest of modern Greece.
| Aigeira appears to be in the Peloponessus, judging from the
| supplied map. Ergo Aigeira is not in northwestern Greece.
| tim333 wrote:
| Google maps has it here quite near Athens
| https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Aigeira+250+10,+Greece/@...
| denton-scratch wrote:
| The article _says_ it 's in the Peloponessus, and includes a
| map showing it in the Peloponessus. Google maps also shows it
| in the Peloponessus.
|
| The Peloponessus is in southern Greece. Even Athens is not in
| northwestern Greece.
| tim333 wrote:
| Checks out. I think they got a bit muddled.
|
| Wikipedia gives the location as "northeastern Achaea, West
| Greece". Maybe some of that got lost.
| capableweb wrote:
| You'd be better of using an actual map as a source instead of
| Google Maps, as Google Maps redraws borders depending on what
| country you access it from, sometimes makes it really hard to
| discuss things around Google Maps links.
| astrea wrote:
| A lion is my pet theory for The Beast of Gevaudan:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_Gevaudan
| ardit33 wrote:
| Yes, it makes sense that Lions roamed the area. It was a warmer
| period, and humans were still not that numerous.
|
| Today, the Balkan Lynx, is the last large cat that lives in the
| Albania and N. Macedonia area. It is a beautiful animal. Most
| likely it has survived so far because it is a relatively shy
| animal, and doesn't attack people, or doesn't instill fear like
| Lions did and wolves to some extend do.
|
| https://www.dw.com/en/balkan-lynxes-the-last-of-their-kind/a...
|
| https://exit.al/en/2020/06/25/in-albania-the-balkans-last-ly...
| beebeepka wrote:
| Thanks for ruining my evening :(
|
| Magnificent animals. Best wishes to the poachers, their
| enablers, and their customers. Let there be no mercy for their
| souls, provided they have them
| spcebar wrote:
| Obviously this has implications in academia, but I wonder how
| this will affect museum tours and the explanations of art the
| docents give.
|
| And I must admit, I clicked this article hoping to discover there
| were lions wandering around the south of France today.
| Cd00d wrote:
| I have a close friend and colleague from Paris that I worked
| with in Philadelphia. She once told me that she attributes the
| American attitude of independence and self-reliance on the fact
| that we still can run into animals that will kill us. Our
| perspective is directed by the inherent risk of living with
| wild (I don't think she had downtown Philly specifically in
| mind when forming these observations/ideas :) )
| capableweb wrote:
| > She once told me that she attributes the American attitude
| of independence and self-reliance on the fact that we still
| can run into animals that will kill us
|
| That would have been plausible I suppose if it wasn't for the
| fact that animals that can kill humans exists in many other
| places, but the attitude of Americans (fortunately) doesn't.
| sharikous wrote:
| I don't know. I, for one, am happy the USA exist as a
| country and Americans exist as a people.
|
| The attitude of independence and self reliance has to do
| obviously with low population density, history and ancient
| cultural roots, but is commendable.
|
| Judging by the news there is also a lot to complain about,
| and these days more then in the past, unfortunately.
|
| But it's a bit stupid to give up on the good things of your
| culture because of internal bashing
| truthspeaker9 wrote:
| fartattack wrote:
| voz_ wrote:
| > but the attitude of Americans (fortunately) doesn't.
|
| Perhaps you meant "Unfortunately"? I know it is very vogue
| to bash America and Americans these days. Perhaps you have
| spent too much time online, or have had some very negative
| experiences, but I do not share your view at all. Almost
| all Americans I have met are kind, helpful, and friendly.
| Coming from Eastern Europe, it's been an overwhelmingly
| positive change to have the default be "How can I help
| you", rather than "Fuck off".
| uglytruth wrote:
| voldacar wrote:
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| It certainly was not the kind of comment we want on HN.
| But your comment also breaks the site guidelines.
| voz_ wrote:
| Perhaps, instead of getting incredulous and upset, you
| can take a step back. Evaluate how you write, and how you
| choose your words.
|
| You quote books in bad faith, you lob insults, you hurl
| racist generalizations. All from a brand new anonymous
| account. This is not reddit, I am not surprised you are
| banned after this kind of behavior.
|
| I strongly urge you to rethink how you interact in
| public, anonymous, digital spaces.
| truthspeaker9 wrote:
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| being eastern europe is the key there, that basically
| means you're white. I'm not surprised you're treated well
| in America.
|
| For the rest of us, it can be hit or miss depending on
| where in the country we're in.
| Tenoke wrote:
| I'm willing to wager that no matter your ethnicity you'd
| have an overall much worse time in Eastern Europe (where
| I am also from) than most of the US.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| I spent 3 months traveling around ukraine in 2020 (I
| know.. hell of a year to be traveling)
|
| While lviv and ukraine were lovely, I had to remind
| myself that I'm comparably wealthy compared to most of
| the people I was meeting and of course, money changes a
| lot of things.
| uglytruth wrote:
| snek_case wrote:
| > Americans are sure kind and friendly alright--as long
| as you happen to subscribe 1000% to whatever divisive
| flavor of propaganda an individual has been brainwashed
| to believe
|
| You, my friend, are spreading your own flavor of
| propaganda right here in this post. Take a moment to
| breathe. There's both good and bad things in america, but
| it sure isn't the worst place to be born or to live in.
| voz_ wrote:
| I cannot tell if this is a troll comment, or in good
| faith. Where do you get off assuming my accent?
| sanedigital wrote:
| I spent 5 years overseas, living in several European
| countries and embedding myself in non-English speaking
| communities. Small-minded, short-sighted, and provincial
| thinking is the norm everywhere. Your average person
| thinks their country, language, race, etc. are the best
| around, regardless of where they're from.
|
| Your post is the worst kind of "divisive flavor of
| propaganda". You've been led to believe the US is some
| sort of awful place full of awful people. And I get it, I
| used to think that too. But the truth is its just a place
| --a place full of people, the same kind as anywhere.
|
| I hope you find the source of your anger and are able to
| work on it. Otherwise that toxicity is going to stay with
| you the rest of your life.
| anonfornoreason wrote:
| I am an American, born and raised here. It's a great
| place, people are great. Just like anywhere, there are
| good people and bad, there are kind people and mean,
| there are helpful people and not helpful.
|
| Over and over I encounter good people with views that I
| don't agree with, that would help me in a heartbeat and I
| would help in a heartbeat. If you fall victim to the
| mentality that everyone sucks, guess what, everyone will
| suck in your eyes.
|
| Personally, I think the modern western culture is pretty
| sick, there's a ton of narcissism, people are sucked into
| their fake worlds behind their media screens. That
| doesn't mean they are bad people, it means that the
| incentive structure of western society is fundamentally
| broken. Don't confuse bad people with people who are
| under sway of a broken media system.
| stillugly wrote:
| lessthanseventy wrote:
| Appropriate username
| adventured wrote:
| notahacker wrote:
| I'm not quite sure how an offhand remark upthread about
| one of the quirks of US culture has culminated in a post
| explaining that Western Europeans are "faux elitist
| snobbish... hasbeens fading in consequence" that are just
| "too arrogant about their position in the world", but
| it's not the German or French participants in this thread
| bragging about [ludicrous exaggerations of] their power.
| I mean, this particular tangent supports the notion that
| delusions of grandeur might be an issue for some, but not
| in the way you think...
|
| If, as you suggest, countries need to live in fear of
| conquest not to resent Americans[1], I'm not sure that's
| evidence that it's other countries whose citizens are
| most likely to be exhibiting attitude problems.
|
| [1] I'm not actually convinced this is the case, much
| like I'm entirely unconvinced that my country is " _de
| facto_ ruled by the US ", or that negative stereotypes
| about US culture and politics emanate from our desire to
| recapture our Empire (the people that obsess about that
| history tend to like the US and our political relations
| with it _more_. They 're also a _lot_ more obsessed with
| imperial grandeur than your average German!)
| uglytruth wrote:
| sanedigital wrote:
| Howard Campbell Jr. is a fictional character from a
| fictional novel. You're relating the personal opinions of
| a single novelist as if they were representative facts.
|
| You think the average American is poor? You should spend
| some time in Southern or Eastern Europe, Southeast or
| South Asia, or pretty much anywhere on the entire African
| continent.
| voz_ wrote:
| You have editorialized Vonnegut to make this sound like
| an agreeable character directly quoted. In fact, by
| purposely omitting the sentence or two before, you miss
| the entire context:
|
| > It was a report on the behavior in Germany of American
| enlisted men as prisoners of war, It was written by a
| former American who had risen high in the Germany
| Ministry of Propaganda. His name was Howard W. Campbell
| Jr. He would later hang himself while awaiting trial as a
| war criminal.
|
| I can tell you weird geopolitical rambling is on par with
| your reading comprehension - dull and just plain
| incorrect. I see now why you cowardly deleted your other
| comment wherein you made sweeping racist generalizations.
| truthspeaker9 wrote:
| ROTMetro wrote:
| denton-scratch wrote:
| I also took the title to mean that these were contemporary
| "lions", which I supposed must be some kind of wildcat or lynx
| (like American mountain lions).
| ratww wrote:
| I thought this was already well known for at least a couple
| hundred years according to
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lions_in_Europe .
| There's also lots of lions in heraldic designs.
|
| _> And I must admit, I clicked this article hoping to discover
| there were lions wandering around the south of France today._
|
| After recently having my first encounter with a wild pig in
| Berlin, I was also expecting having to run from lions.
| somedude895 wrote:
| > After recently having my first encounter with a wild pig in
| Berlin, I was also expecting having to run from lions.
|
| A girlfriend from Berlin once told me a story of how she had
| to hold out on top of a car for hours after being ambushed by
| hogs while coming home from a party in the early morning.
|
| Berlin is a funny place.
| sofixa wrote:
| > After recently having my first encounter with a wild pig in
| Berlin, I was also expecting having to run from lions.
|
| And how was it? I've heard lots of stories of funny
| encounters with wild pigs in Corsica, but sadly never crossed
| one when visiting.
| ratww wrote:
| Oh it was quite uneventful, the pig seemed a bit scared so
| I just went in another direction and we were both relieved.
|
| I hope I never find a pig mom, though.
|
| An important aspect is that you can't take your clothes off
| near them:
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/28/hey-thats-
| mine...
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Central Europe has a lot of wild pigs and I encountered
| them several times right in the streets of villages or
| small cities adjacent to bigger forests - but always around
| midnight or later. They are smart and try to avoid humans,
| and they have obviously determined that the small hours are
| the optimal time to go scouting for some food with no one
| around.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| But you are aware, that even a group of ordinary wild pigs
| can kill you and the corsican breed is especially famous
| for it?
|
| If you are, thats cool, because in general I had many close
| encounters with boars at dawn or night in the forest and
| nothing ever happened. They are interesting and smart
| animals and usually respect you, when you respect them and
| stay calm. I even was quite close to mothers with young
| ones and the most that happened was, they snorted angrily
| at me to go away.
| Cd00d wrote:
| I encountered a lot of free roaming (possibly wild??)
| burros in Corsica, but did not see any pigs during a few
| week stay in summer 2008 or 09.
| lucozade wrote:
| > There's also lots of lions in heraldic designs
|
| That's true but there are also quite a lot of unicorns and
| griffins so I'm not sure that that's a clinching argument.
| Taywee wrote:
| Check out medieval depictions of rhinos, giraffes, and
| elephants.
|
| The fact that heraldic lions look anything like actual
| lions rather than deformed dogs and sheep convinces me that
| they were somewhat nearby.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| It's a good read if only for seeing how science works, how we
| establish sufficient evidence to support a hypothesis and how
| real scientists actually change their minds when presented with
| sufficient evidence to the contrary of their current point of
| view.
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