[HN Gopher] Bread in the Middle Ages (2013)
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       Bread in the Middle Ages (2013)
        
       Author : alexellisuk
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2022-01-04 08:41 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.medievalists.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.medievalists.net)
        
       | brandrick wrote:
       | Bread in 2021....
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/Cheap_Meals/comments/rvy340/bread_i...
        
         | thrower123 wrote:
         | I don't know anybody who's actually eaten canned brown bread
         | who knocks it.
         | 
         | It's tasty stuff; I'd take the raisin variety over a muffin or
         | banana bread.
        
           | hansthehorse wrote:
           | I grew up with the occasional can of B and M. I can't find it
           | here in SE Florida.
        
         | phonypc wrote:
         | Surely canned bread is as old as canning.
        
           | lapetitejort wrote:
           | I'd argue that bread in 2021 has returned more to its roots
           | thanks to the sourdough trend from 2020. I started baking
           | along with everyone and I just cannot go back to mass
           | produced bread.
        
             | AlanYx wrote:
             | True! I also find it fascinating that the first recipe in
             | the linked article (Wroclaw Trencher Bread) includes beer
             | as an ingredient, which has had a popular revival recently
             | as a bread hack to add maltiness/flavor. I've seen
             | YouTubers complain that it isn't "authentic" somehow, but
             | it looks like it really is more traditional than it seems!
        
               | ch4s3 wrote:
               | Any premodern bread that wasn't made like sourdough was
               | made with beer barm. Bakeries and breweries were typical
               | colocated. I'm not sure what was done in predominantly
               | Muslim areas for yeast though, since they wouldn't have
               | had breweries.
        
             | chihuahua wrote:
             | For me, there's 2 entirely different kinds of bread:
             | 
             | * homemade bread: good flavor and texture
             | 
             | * supermarket "bread" for sandwiches: consistent size, soft
             | texture for a sandwich where the fillings don't fall out,
             | especially for eating away from home
             | 
             | Supermarket "bread" is more of an edible wrapper, but it
             | has its purpose.
        
               | phonypc wrote:
               | Where does an industrially produced supermarket baguette
               | that's nonetheless made with just flour, water, salt and
               | yeast fall?
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | Not sure, seems like Zwieback-type breads (twice-baked, very
           | dry) were common for a long time as shelf-stable bread and
           | canning reserved for other things. It certainly was a thing
           | by WW2 though.
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > Bread in 2021....
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/Cheap_Meals/comments/rvy340/bread_i...
         | 
         | That's not a recently developed product, let alone a recent
         | invention:
         | 
         | https://newengland.com/today/food/new-england-made/bm-brown-...
         | 
         | > It's not clear when B&M (the letters stand for co-founders
         | George Burnham and Charles Morrill) started selling their
         | version of the classic New England bread (a sweet variety made
         | from cornmeal, wheat and rye flours, and molasses), but like
         | its Necco Wafer and Moxie soda kin, the canned bread has been
         | around so long it's hard to imagine a time when it wasn't for
         | sale.
         | 
         | The article has an ad for it from the 40s.
        
       | blippage wrote:
       | Two things I know about bread: Roman soldiers baked bread, using
       | beer as a raising agent instead of yeast, on account of the fast
       | that beer was readily available.
       | 
       | A "baker's dozen" is the number 13. This is believed to stem from
       | medieval England, where bakers gave an extra loaf in order to
       | avoid penalties for being underweight.
        
         | ch4s3 wrote:
         | That was typical of all premodern breads, other than
         | sourdoughs. Yeast was isolated in the 1800s.
        
         | vestrigi wrote:
         | Compared to ancient beer the yeast of modern beer is killed off
         | before bottling, so you can't use it as a yeast replacement,
         | but instead this allows the beer to be stored for a long time.
        
           | ectopod wrote:
           | You need bottle conditioned beer. Many wheat beers are.
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | 'Killed off'? Or just filtered? (Genuine question - I brew a
           | bit, and have used mine for bread, but don't really know
           | anything about commercial brewing.)
        
             | bloggie wrote:
             | I'm just a home gamer so could be wrong. In large
             | commercial breweries it is killed off, flocculated out with
             | a flocculation agent then filtered out. It is killed at a
             | certain time so the amount of remaining sugar is
             | controlled.
             | 
             | Some microbrews don't do this and you can recuperate live
             | yeast from those beers for brewing or baking.
        
             | rainbowzootsuit wrote:
             | I've always heard filtered to bring it to sterility, but
             | there have to be other steps to flocculate. Micro brews or
             | traditional European brews are often bottle finished.
             | 
             | Some micro breweries use a finishing yeast that's different
             | than the fermentation yeast to keep that proprietary. I
             | think anchor brewing comes to mind for this.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | voz_ wrote:
       | Bookmarked to read for later. Thank you for sharing :)
       | 
       | Wanted to also say - ACOUP, the best history blog I have read
       | yet, has a great series on bread, wheat, and farming in the
       | Western European/Mediterranean, (iirc between ancient times
       | through medieval)
       | 
       | https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they...
        
       | Wronnay wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220105170648/https://www.medie...
       | 
       | When you don't want to deactivate your AdBlocker...
        
         | eps wrote:
         | The original rendered just fine with my adblocker on.
        
       | eps wrote:
       | Tangentially related - I recently discovered poolish, which is a
       | form of pre-ferment that helps dramatically improving the taste
       | of bread baked using commercial dry yeast.
       | 
       | If you are about to make a loaf, take half of the flour, mix it
       | with water 1:1, add a minscule amount of yeast and let it ferment
       | overnight. Then add the rest of recipe and bake as usual. What
       | you get is a bread that taste bread-ier. Sounds silly, but it's
       | just ridiculuosly good.
       | 
       | If anyone's interested in specifics, the Ken Forkish book (Flour
       | Water Salt Yeast) has a good recipe. Highly recommended to try if
       | you are into breadmaking.
        
         | lapetitejort wrote:
         | I had a revelation recently regarding commercial dry yeast and
         | poolish. The sour part of sourdough comes from the
         | lactobacillus bacteria making lactic acid. Commercial dry yeast
         | makes for a fast rise, which isn't enough time for the
         | minuscule amount of bacteria that's present in the flour to
         | flourish (pun intended?). Letting the mixture ferment overnight
         | lets the bacteria grow more, which creates the flavor. My guess
         | is this technique can be used to stand up a sourdough starter
         | from scratch faster than mixing raw flour with water over the
         | course of a week or so.
        
       | hackermailman wrote:
       | If you like this sort of histotainment BBC used to make good
       | series like Tudor Monastery (1500s) https://youtu.be/0-uqQknglio
       | or their original 'Tales of the Green Valley' (1620)
       | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6LJQOAaGj2magtWkqqRQ...
       | both where historians attempt to farm as they did in the period,
       | capturing wild yeast from apple trees to make bread and ale which
       | Tudors lived off of
        
         | thinkmassive wrote:
         | On a related tangent, I found the book Against the Grain, by
         | James C Scott, to be very interesting. In it he discusses how
         | farming existed long before cities, and how certain grain crops
         | contributed to (and were leveraged for) the emergence of city
         | states.
         | 
         | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34324534-against-the-gra...
        
         | nabilhat wrote:
         | There are several more of these! Ruth, Peter, and (usually)
         | Alex are so amazingly good at this.
         | 
         | Random fact: Ruth Goodman's demonstrations of how laundry was
         | washed through the ages and why those methods worked has
         | changed how I do my own laundry. It turns out the washing
         | machine isn't nearly as effective as a half-hearted manual wash
         | with a laundry plunger, while causing substantially more wear.
        
           | floren wrote:
           | Funny, watching those shows had me frequently thinking "yeah,
           | I could do that... seems ok" (I have a farming background)
           | _except_ for the laundry stuff :)
           | 
           | Well, the laundry stuff and all the particulate garbage they
           | were breathing from the wood and coal fires.
        
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       (page generated 2022-01-05 23:02 UTC)