[HN Gopher] I Built a Shed (2020)
___________________________________________________________________
I Built a Shed (2020)
Author : eduardosasso
Score : 224 points
Date : 2022-01-02 16:30 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (eduardosasso.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (eduardosasso.co)
| thecrumb wrote:
| Awesome! I bought a storage shed this summer and finished out the
| inside. Was perfect timing with the cost of lumber increase LOL.
| pengwing wrote:
| Would you be interested in purchasing this partially pre-build
| and delivered to you?
|
| (pre-painted, Including windows, door, insulation, electrical and
| Ethernet wiring, fire-proof compliance, able to resist heavy
| rain)
|
| Six elements total, clickable into each other. Assembly time
| under one hour.
| kingkawn wrote:
| The point is to build it yourself
| pengwing wrote:
| For some. For others it isn't.
| lonele wrote:
| Good to see that now neighbours towards backyard can review your
| Merge requests as well.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| PRO TIP: any standalone WFH structure should integrate a
| Faraday Cage.
| wforfang wrote:
| I enjoyed reading that! Great job.
| mwattsun wrote:
| A lot of people in Santa Cruz are building secondary buildings on
| their property since the city loosened the rules to help with the
| housing crisis in the area.
| atlgator wrote:
| Is the roof slanted in the right direction? You are sending the
| water toward your house instead of away from it. This might
| create drainage problems in flash flood conditions.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| Any thoughts on the color selection?
| gertlex wrote:
| I noticed that selecting text on the article doesn't change
| colors. Probably not what you're referring to :)
|
| (I enjoyed the article.)
| streblo wrote:
| https://bikeshed.org/
| CodeGlitch wrote:
| Also in the UK it's against regulation to have a wooden
| structure so close to a residential property... Although this
| is the US where most properties are made of wood... So probably
| no such rule?
| hinkley wrote:
| Buildings that overlap are often seen as attempt to make an
| addition without the right permits. They have zero sense of
| humor about that over here either.
|
| Since the wall of this building is actually under the roof
| line, they'll make him tear this down or reroof his house to
| move it four inches over (although that might take a permit
| too, since you're changing the roofline). Tearing it down is
| cheaper.
|
| He may also be violating setbacks from the edge of the
| property, but those have been diluted here so frequently in
| large cities that he might be okay.
| ErrantX wrote:
| Your fine if it's under (iirc) 2m. The only hard rule is in
| front of your property line.
| pkaye wrote:
| That is also the case in my area of the US. The wooden
| structure must be a certain distance from the house, fence,
| etc. However smaller structure don't need a permit so people
| just ignore the rules if space is tight. And some areas don't
| have strict enforcement of the building code particularly
| rural areas. But those properties tend to have lots of space.
| singlow wrote:
| It is usually against code to shed water toward the property
| line from that distance, so that may be the only option.
| yashap wrote:
| Could maybe slant it parallel to the house? Towards the
| photographer in these photos - not directly at either the
| house or the property line.
| hinkley wrote:
| Well then he'd get wet going into the shed. He might not
| mind but his equipment will. Toward the fence or back would
| be better.
|
| I also wonder from a water damage standpoint if he vented
| this or he's counting on the door for ventilation. That
| won't always be open.
| kordlessagain wrote:
| There is already impervious coverage on the ground, sloped
| that way. This shed does nothing to change that, and it's not
| attached to the ground. If you really want to get away with
| this from a code standpoint, put wheels on it.
| samwillis wrote:
| It looks like it's designed to fit under of the eves of the
| house while still providing head room and there is a down pipe
| on the house that the shed can hook into sharing the soakway.
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| Congrats! It will probably take me 5x as long to build the same
| thing because I'm a perfectionist who's always hemming and hawing
| over changing plans or the right way to do things. It definitely
| feels awesome once you complete it though.
| wedn3sday wrote:
| [deleted]
| sagivo wrote:
| I'm still surprised there are no DIY backyard offices out there
| to purchase
| porknubbins wrote:
| Really enjoyed reading this and have always wanted to try. The
| aesthetics came out better than I expected from a backyard shed
| too. It seems like you got most stuff cut to size but I'm
| wondering what power tools were required other than a nail gun I
| assume.
| vhodges wrote:
| In a lot of places, buildings less than 100'sq do not need
| permitting. https://www.redcoverstudios.com/blog/md100-plans-for-
| modern-... are plans for one such out building.
| uwagar wrote:
| house > shed
|
| shed > ?
| aliswe wrote:
| a shed is better than nothing.
| pengwing wrote:
| If you are interested in this, could you please answer two
| questions (warning: My lack of understanding is usually
| offensive):
|
| - Do you regret having children?
|
| - Do you regret living together with your spouse?
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| So, by your thinking, anyone who leaves the home to go work in
| an office regrets having children and regrets living with their
| spouse. Yes, I agree with you, your lack of understanding is
| offensive.
| pengwing wrote:
| I appreciate the downvotes as they confirm the emotional
| damage, but I am not a fan of misusing logical implications.
|
| Obviously, in a pre-Covid world leaving your home to go to
| work was simply the societal expectation of how to acquire an
| income. WFH mostly came with economic downsides (lower
| salary, no promotions).
|
| During Covid and post-Covid it's quite an interesting
| question why somebody would voluntarily lobby to add unpaid
| work time in the form of a commute to their day.
| jefftk wrote:
| I'm in a similar situation and also built something similar for
| an office during covid. I definitely don't regret having
| children or living with my spouse, and we actually decided to
| have a third child (now 6m) during covid.
| pengwing wrote:
| Was it more about the building process for you or more about
| the usage afterwards?
| jefftk wrote:
| I enjoyed building it, but the primary motivation was to
| have the additional space
| pengwing wrote:
| So basically there was no dedicated room inside the house
| for WFH before?
|
| When you use your shed, what are the aspects that you
| came to value? E.g. is it more about the feeling of
| nature (because the garden is much closer) or is it more
| about the sound-separation from the rest of the home? Or
| would you be as happy with a dedicated room within your
| house?
| jefftk wrote:
| _> So basically there was no dedicated room inside the
| house for WFH before?_
|
| I was previously working from our bedroom. The main
| downside was if I wanted to start working while my wife
| was still asleep.
|
| _> When you use your shed, what are the aspects that you
| came to value? E.g. is it more about the feeling of
| nature (because the garden is much closer) or is it more
| about the sound-separation from the rest of the home? Or
| would you be as happy with a dedicated room within your
| house?_
|
| Sound separation, and not needing to work for my room
| that also has another purpose. But a dedicated room with
| in a house is better for me, and when one became
| available I started working from there instead of the
| shed.
| pengwing wrote:
| Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Did you
| do extra-preparation on the extra room that is now
| available to you? E.g. foaming walls or door to have the
| same level of sound separation?
|
| Which direction of sound separation is more important to
| you, incoming sound (not being disturbed) or outgoing
| sound (not disturbing sleeping people with your work)?
| jefftk wrote:
| I am not particularly noise sensitive, so the amount of
| sound separation you get just by being in a separate room
| is usually enough for me.
|
| The shed has excellent noise separation, however, which
| occasionally has been useful in letting friends work
| there for a while.
| pengwing wrote:
| How do you handle something highly noise sensitive like
| baby crying in another room while being on a Zoom call?
| wedn3sday wrote:
| Came here expecting some classic bikeshedding, was not
| disappointed.
| [deleted]
| Underphil wrote:
| Are you able to elaborate? Do you mean in the article or in the
| comments?
| aliswe wrote:
| allthe "this is not to code" comments i guess
| 41b696ef1113 wrote:
| Municipal codes are written in blood. Little of the
| feedback I am seeing is negative about the trivial details.
| jefftk wrote:
| Bikeshedding is arguing about stuff that doesn't matter
| (ex: color). Pointing out that something is built
| dangerously is not bikeshedding.
| mdani wrote:
| I would probably reroute the end of the rain sprout on the left
| side of the shed away from the shed, since it would put lots of
| water at the base of the shed whenever it rains, weakening the
| base of the shed.
| beamatronic wrote:
| It's my life's dream to do a project like this.
| Underphil wrote:
| What is stopping you?
| ricardobayes wrote:
| What about HVAC? This structure will be unbearable in the summer
| months.
| agentwiggles wrote:
| You could cool it really nicely with a small mini split system.
| idlewords wrote:
| Close reading suggests this should be titled "my wife and I built
| a shed".
| manicennui wrote:
| Michael Pollan wrote a book about the office that he built for
| himself.
|
| https://michaelpollan.com/books/a-place-of-my-own/
| cf100clunk wrote:
| Check your insurance coverage! Erecting a structure that does not
| meet local electrical and building codes, zoning bylaws, etc. may
| either threaten or void your insurance. In the event of the worst
| case scenario (fire, flood, collapse, etc.) you will likely not
| get a payout.
| Grakel wrote:
| Cool! A coat of gloss will make your exterior paint last a lot
| longer and seal everything better. A nice exterior gloss paint is
| like a skin for your walls.
|
| Anybody looking to do this, you could probably go 8x8 for the
| same money, plywood comes 4x8 and most lumber comes in 8'
| lengths.
| thecrumb wrote:
| Yes! When I bought my shed I didn't consider 4x8 dimensions and
| it bit me in the end when finishing it out.
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| You can also go to your local reused building materials store
| and see what they've got, and change your plans around a bit
| to fit those materials. You might find a bundle of boards not
| quite 8'/16' but could save you a pretty penny (and it just
| helps the environment)
| pagana wrote:
| There is a beautifully illustrated book on just this topic: How
| to Build a Shed by Sally Coulthard (https://www.amazon.com/How-
| Build-Shed-Sally-Coulthard/dp/178...).
|
| The instructions are so well-designed that it's a pleasure to
| read even if you're not completing the project.
| runjake wrote:
| That is the same book the author of the post mentions at the
| top of the article.
|
| No need to re-recommend it. We read the article :-)
| antisthenes wrote:
| I can't decide what's worse.
|
| The fact that you need a shoddily built (I'd be ashamed to post
| something like this on the internet) 6x6 shed to work in, while
| you have a perfectly fine house right next to it.
|
| Or how many fear-mongering code NIMBYs there are in this thread.
| Some even threatening to doxx the OP. Yikes. Do you guys know how
| much legacy not-up-to-code housing stock there is across the
| country, that's actually dangerous to inhabit? And you chose to
| cry wolf about an accessory structure CA?
| hermitcrab wrote:
| When we bought our house it came with a run-down 'summer house'
| in the garden. We had it plastered and insulated and added a
| laminate floor. We ran an armoured electricity cable from the
| house through a trench and attached it to the house alarm system.
| We then got the an 'L' shaped desk custom built by a neighbour
| (who is a joiner). Heating is provided by an electrically powered
| radiator. I've been working there now (as a 1-man-band software
| product company) for the last 11 years. It's been great.
| CodeGlitch wrote:
| Was going to mention that not way is that roof steep enough for
| water run off, but I see he encountered that problem already.
|
| Also isn't this going to get really hot in the summer? A small
| air con unit could work well with a hole cut for the vent?
| stevenhubertron wrote:
| I was considering doing something similar this spring, but
| instead of trenching my yard I was considering solar and just a
| small mesh network to get to the corner of my backyard, maybe 300
| feet from the house. My thought was that it would be an office
| and reading area. Perhaps a place to nap away from the kiddo as
| well :)
| japhyr wrote:
| Minor etymological note: the word _plumb_ describes something
| that 's hanging vertically. It comes from the latin word plumbum
| (lead). When people wanted to make sure something was vertical,
| they'd hang a lead weight from a string, and align the string
| with whatever was supposed to be vertical. Even though we've
| moved on to different metals, we still call them plumb bobs, and
| we still say that a vertical part of a house is "plumb".
|
| https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Hand-Tools-Marking-Tools-L...
| leetcrew wrote:
| I knew "plumbum" meant "lead", but I'd always assumed the
| etymology of "plumbing" was just that pipes were historically
| made of lead. thanks for posting!
| hinkley wrote:
| Plumbing can also be the act of making something plumb, but
| generally people use specific sentence fragments to make that
| clear.
|
| I was plumbing a wall when I dropped my hammer and had to
| start all over.
| [deleted]
| georgewsinger wrote:
| I approve of the Herman Miller Aeron :]
| progfix wrote:
| Two other posts from today:
|
| * Ask HN: Why does a busy man build a shed?
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29767682)
|
| * Why I Live In a Shed
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29762145)
|
| Does HN have some kind of mechanism that promotes posts with
| similar keywords?
| hddherman wrote:
| I've noticed this happening as well, and the explanation that
| I've stuck with is that the follow-up posts are posted by
| readers who recognize a similar article they've previously read
| that's deserving of a (re)post on HN.
| detaro wrote:
| That, or they go searching for additional information and
| find related articles.
|
| Another easy one to spot: there's sometimes clusters of
| articles from the same site if it's not a well-known one -
| people look around the site, find other good stuff and submit
| that too.
| progfix wrote:
| Sure, but I noticed those similar posts always have the same
| keywords in them. This time it is "sheds" and I am a little
| bit in disbelief that someone is gonna post more about sheds
| :). The first post wasn't even about sheds, it was a question
| about hobbies.
|
| I don't say that this bad or anything, in fact I like that
| every day has a different topic on the front page. If this is
| a natural phenomenon then I have not heard about it yet (and
| it might be interesting to research?).
| yurishimo wrote:
| No. A lot of people in tech really like to live vicariously
| through other makers (woodworking, esp). It appeals to both the
| DIY crowd, which in a way is basically our entire career, and a
| real life problem of programmers not being able to work in
| peace, whether at home, or in a bullpen of peers.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| Men love sheds.
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| Nice - what did you do for ventilation ???.
| Paul_S wrote:
| This whole thing is just a fire hazard but this is just dangerous
| advice to be giving people:
|
| "PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the
| screws and redo it; with nails, it's a lot harder to do that."
|
| Please don't, screws shear. Don't learn constrtuction from
| someone who hasn't learnt it himself.
|
| As for writing about your experience like this, write a blog
| about something in your own field or otherwise don't give advice.
| It could end up with someone getting hurt.
| tkiolp4 wrote:
| > As for writing about your experience like this, write a blog
| about something in your own field or otherwise don't give
| advice.
|
| I don't get it. I see the majority of us, developers, writing
| about software without having a deep knowledge on the subject.
| The author's shed is no more to me like the usual post "I built
| Twitter in Rust on a weekend". Should we all stop giving "PRO
| tips"?
| mminer237 wrote:
| Yes? If you're just starting to code, you shouldn't give out
| advice like you know everything. You're not a pro and you
| shouldn't be masquerading as one. You should be listening to
| advice, not giving it. You really want advice everywhere of
| "Coding pro tip: always make all variables strings because
| then you can put numbers or letters in there and you don't
| have to use multiple types."?
| Paul_S wrote:
| Yes, because he is giving dangerous advice. Hey! This weekend
| I operated on my cat, pro tip, nail the cat down to avoid him
| moving. If you write a twitter in rust then giving the wrong
| advice will at worst spur someone to create another
| successful startup.
| throwaway9870 wrote:
| The irony is you are telling people to not write about things
| they aren't qualified to write about, but that is exactly what
| you are doing.
|
| There are structural screws that are excellent options for
| framing. GRK and Simpson make extremely well regarded
| structural screws that, at least in the US, are accepted for
| framing most/all building code offices.
|
| Here is an example of a Simpson screw:
| https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sdw...
|
| Here is a GRK:
| https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/r4-multi-purpose-scr...
|
| And the author is right - if you are a weekend warrior, they
| are far better than framing nails. You don't need a nail gun,
| just an impact driver which is usually less expensive and more
| useful for other tasks. They don't split the wood as much as a
| framing nailer, are generally more accurate to put in, and can
| be easily removed if needed.
| locallost wrote:
| Heh, I am glad I read the comments here. I bought a piece of land
| (a garden basically), and it has an old house / shack where the
| roof needs to go. I am debating internally for two days now if I
| should replace the roof myself or not or just bite the bullet and
| pay somebody. I am on a kind of a sabbatical so in theory I have
| time, and the idea is tempting, but it's definitely not software.
| hattmall wrote:
| Go with the metal roof, very easy to install and last a long
| long time. Assuming you have a fairly simple roofline anyway.
| cbsks wrote:
| I am in the process of planning something similar at my house. My
| county requires a land use permit for any new development, as
| well as a building permit because power will be run. Both of
| those permits require plans to be submitted and take multiple
| weeks to be approved. It's worthwhile to check at your local
| planning office if you care about such things.
| jdgoesmarching wrote:
| If anyone is looking into this, I really like Shed King
| (shedking.net) for plans. They have a few shed models you can
| choose from, costs around $20, include shopping lists, and are
| super thorough.
|
| I recently snagged the 12x16 with porch plans. I'm excited to
| give this a shot.
| mgarfias wrote:
| Wow. Just wow.
|
| Not gonna pollute with comments about it that others have already
| made.
|
| I will add that I am making electrical/gas renovations to the
| house/detached garage.
|
| Basically we are adding LP to the house for my new range, and a
| gas water heater. Also ran gas to the garage for powering a
| genset. The past year or so has taught me the import of off grid
| solutions for certain things like cooking and hot water.
|
| So, I had to dig a trench from the house to the garage. Code
| called for 18" deep, but I went as deep as my backhoe would
| allow. Grey pvc conduit was put in for elec, a separate tube for
| fiber, and pex for water.
|
| The LP co, came and installed a 250gal tank on a pad I poured,
| then ran gas in some kinda pex-like tubing to the house and
| garage. County eventually came out to inspect and signed off,
| allowing me to back fill (partly down now). Next steps are to
| finish connecting the pvc to the house, finish the water run, and
| then I need to buy the copper for the elect run - probably $1500
| worth.
|
| The only bits I'm concerned about is getting the power shut off,
| and power lines moved to the underground conduit I've placed from
| the pile to the house as I'll need an actual electrician or will
| have to wait a week for the power company to turn back on after
| the shut off.
| mgarfias wrote:
| Oh, I'd add that my current power runs through the trees to the
| house, and from the house to the garage in the trees. And the
| house is nearly 50 years old, and therefor grandfathered in
| without an electrical shutoff on the side of the house. Part of
| this project is to fix all that.
| patleeman wrote:
| Very cool. I love these DIY office setups.
|
| The author mentioned organizing material transport by figuring
| out what would fit in his car. I would highly recommend just
| renting a flatbed truck from home depot to transport your
| materials home if they don't fit in your car. Its usually
| something like $20 to rent for an hour.
|
| Also I wonder if the author has any plans to heat/cool the space.
| Seems like they might live in a temperate area. I'd would
| probably just install one of those DIY mini-split units to
| heat/cool the office if necessary.
| jefftk wrote:
| Buying materials online with delivery (~$75) can also be a
| really good approach, especially if you know everything you're
| going to need up front.
| ohazi wrote:
| Not that anything about this shed is built to code, but this
| takes the cake:
|
| > PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the
| screws and redo it; with nails, it's a lot harder to do that.
|
| You absolutely should not do this for framing, and most building
| codes specify the type and size of nails that you _must_ use when
| fastening load-bearing structural components.
|
| Screws are convenient, sure, but they are necessarily much harder
| than nails and are prone to embrittlement and cracking, while
| nails are soft and pliable. You _can_ get structural screws, but
| they 're uncommon, expensive, and I'd wager they weren't used
| here (they're _much_ beefier than a similarly rated framing
| nail).
| rpnzl wrote:
| Definitely want to use nails for framing (especially in zones
| that might experience the shearing forces of an earthquake) --
| here are a couple of links so folks can see for themselves:
|
| [Project Farm](https://youtu.be/qmajKElnwfE)
|
| [Vancouver Carpenter](https://youtu.be/5-PlR8tf84c)
| jjeaff wrote:
| In that project farm video, the screws came out stronger than
| nails in every test except the repeated bend test (even the
| drywall screws). I think it could be argued that since screws
| are much stronger and have better holding power, they are
| much less likely to get loose enough to the point that they
| are going to be repeatedly bending back and forth.
| rpnzl wrote:
| I think this is valid -- I'm not a structural engineer so I
| can't speak to how an earthquake might behave differently
| than the tests in the Project Farm video, but I can imagine
| a scenario where a screw becoming a bit loose would create
| a situation that more closely resembles the repeated bend
| test.
|
| The IBC still outlines nails as appropriate light frame
| fasteners [0], and where I am (on Maui) there's no local
| provision in the code to allow swapping in screws. The GRKs
| [1, 2] and Simpson [3] screws others have mentioned are
| seemingly valid alternatives to 16d nails, but ultimately
| it's going to come down to what you're comfortable with,
| the local code, the inspector, etc.
|
| [0] https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2021P1/chapter-23-
| wood#...
|
| [1] https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/r4-multi-
| purpose-scr...
|
| [2] https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/rss-rugged-
| structura...
|
| [3] https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrew
| s/sdw...
| hinkley wrote:
| You can burn up a lot of time on Project Farm. Beware/enjoy.
| kevan wrote:
| As much as everyone loves to complain about red tape, building
| codes have a lot of useful info. Even if you're not going to
| pull permits (at your own risk) it's useful to be aware of what
| code requires and why. Specific examples from the post:
|
| * Plywood thickness required for floor decking
|
| * Min roof slope for asphalt shingles
|
| * Drip edge, where it's required and how to install it
|
| * Roof drainage - probably doesn't matter because California
| but as a general rule you never want to channel water towards
| your foundation.
|
| In the grand scheme these are relatively minor. They'll
| probably need to demolish the thing when they sell the house
| long before the roof slope causes water issues.
| hinkley wrote:
| Are termites a problem down there? Seems like he's created a
| termite magnet with all that wood exposed to water damage.
| yurishimo wrote:
| I thought the entire backyard was already brick/pavers? I
| doubt there are many termites hanging out on top of those
| waiting for some wood to get a little damp. If it was
| pressure treated, it should be fine to use those beams as a
| sort of footer on the pavers "foundation".
| hinkley wrote:
| I was thinking more of the splashing back and forth
| between the house and the shed, getting in the siding and
| causing issues.
| thathndude wrote:
| I raised an eyebrow at the roof choice as well. The roof
| slopes towards the foundation? Odd choice
| jacquesm wrote:
| And related to this, but floor joists, roof construction and
| other carrying components (foundation) are all super
| important to get right.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > You can get structural screws, but they're uncommon,
| expensive
|
| And _worth it_. I have boxes of different sizes of Simpson
| strong-tie and strong-drive screws and I adore them. And they
| 're mostly available at any Home Depot.
| hinkley wrote:
| I was going to post about code violations but I'll just tuck it
| under yours here so we don't flood the top level (although one
| could argue that this really deserves it).
|
| I had to stop reading r/diy because half the stuff in there
| made me angry. Especially people building lofts to store heavy
| stuff without knowing anything about construction.
|
| You can't overlap rooflines like this. That's how they allow
| people to build small outbuildings but make large projects have
| to get permits. If the roofs "touch" then you're using a
| loophole to make an illegal addition to your house instead of a
| shed.
|
| > The way I did it was to run both wires inside a 3/4 inch PVC
| conduit using 14/2 electrical wiring + 100ft cat6 ethernet
| cable.
|
| You are going to get somebody killed. I didn't see you dig a
| trench, which means you have a single _plastic_ conduit
| carrying power and data and exposed to the air. It's supposed
| to be grounded metal buried conduit to create a faraday cage
| that can't be electrified by nearby lightning strikes or hit by
| a tree or debris in a wind storm. And deep enough the next
| owner doesn't kill themselves planting a hydrangea.
|
| I have half a mind to doxx you to your city planning office.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| I like your parent's explanation of _why_ screws are not
| allowed by code in some places and also saying that yes,
| screws actually _can_ be used, if you use the right ones,
| even if they aren 't allowed by code in some places.
|
| I really like that because just mentioning code doesn't do
| any good. Just because code says something doesn't mean that
| it makes sense. There's tons of omissions in codes or stuff
| that is unnecessarily restrictive or way not enough to be
| safe.
|
| Screws are the perfect example. If code forbids screws but
| you are going to use the proper screws that are (with good
| reason) allowed in other jurisdictions that has a completely
| different vibe to it than someone blogging about using dry
| wall screws to frame a house. One is a safety concern and why
| inspections are a good thing, while another is a minor case
| of ignoring code without any concerns and where an inspection
| would suck (if you were the homeowner doing some work
| yourself). If they want to use something that is more
| expensive and let's them do something themselves that they
| wouldn't be able to do at all if they had to use nails, more
| power to them! Change code to allow the right type of screws!
|
| Your second part of the reply does the same, it sort of
| explains why you think it's a bad idea (and I agree that it
| is for various reasons).
|
| Could you explain _why_ it is not a good idea to overlap roof
| lines?
| hinkley wrote:
| Overlapping rooflines allow you to make a "detached"
| building that is functionally an addition to your house.
| The downside is that if you want to build a breezeway to a
| detached garage you're going to have to get permits to do
| that. It sucks but otherwise you get people who make a long
| narrow house that's a series of rooms that were built over
| time, and never inspected.
|
| You may see properties that have three fairly large but
| separate buildings, this is often someone skirting building
| codes in such a way that they stay within the letter of the
| law.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| This is exactly the reason I asked for reasoning. A
| perfect example of a specific reason for something in
| code where depending on what you are doing yourself you
| can safely ignore the code violation (except for the
| legality part). If the reason you gave is indeed the
| reason and only reason.
|
| I would argue that if inspections for safety reasons are
| why this is in code then code needs to remove this
| restriction and other rules should be put in place and
| inspections should become less expensive, easier to get
| done etc. Basically make it easier and less of a problem
| for people to get inspected. You will still get people
| that won't do one of course. Make it possible to inspect
| them anyway. Of course I understand that there are
| conflicting priorities at work here too. Meaning funding.
| The optimal way for everyone would be quite expensive. So
| we get suboptimal solutions that are sometimes "OK" to
| circumvent and sometimes not.
|
| Here the bylaws for example allow one main structure, a
| shed and a detached garage (even if you have an attached
| one already). No need for roof overhang code stuff. The
| intent of the bylaw is also much more clear.
|
| The guy in the article arguably is creating such a
| detached building. He is also in violation of rules about
| how far structures have to be from the property line
| assuming the rules in his place are like here and that
| fence is towards the neighbors.
| hamburglar wrote:
| This still doesn't explain why overlapping rooflines are
| actually problematic, though. I have always wondered this
| myself, as I actually own a house with a detached garage
| where the previous owner and next door neighbor put an
| easement on file that allowed the next door neighbor
| (whose ground level is about 5 feet higher via a
| retaining wall) to build an outbuilding very close to the
| property line with the roofline hanging over my garage by
| about 6 inches. So far, the only practical downside is
| that my downspout ends up getting all the water from half
| of his roof, which means the problem is worse if I don't
| keep it clear. Not a terribly big problem in my book,
| since I have to keep it clear anyway. What else am I
| missing?
|
| (Note: there are other things that are suboptimal about
| my garage, namely that it was built 100 years ago right
| on the property line and when it was rebuilt sometime
| later, it was allowed to stay there despite normally
| having a 5 foot setback requirement. As a result, this
| concrete block structure itself actually serves as part
| of the retaining wall and has moisture seepage issues
| from the uphill side. I actually think having the
| neighbor's outbuilding covering that patch of land and
| managing the rainwater via my downspout helps the matter,
| because the ground between them gets no rainfall at all.)
| alistairSH wrote:
| In this case, the shed will have rain runoff into the
| house. Possibly not a problem, but generally not a good
| idea.
|
| Also, as mentioned, sheds don't usually need inspected.
| Sheds with power that act as extensions to the home
| should be (should = good idea) but might not be required,
| depending on location. Basically, some of these rules are
| to prevent uninspected/unpermitted extensions to the main
| dwelling.
| hinkley wrote:
| It's a "this is why we can't have nice things" situation.
| There's no physics problem with overlapping that I know
| of, but it's a giant loophole for people who are up to no
| good.
|
| It's not so much that you shouldn't be able to do it as
| that there's no way we _can_ do it without a permit.
| horsawlarway wrote:
| The water management issue is a bigger deal in some
| locations.
|
| In the original post, he's sloped the new roof back
| towards the house - huge issue where I live (Atlanta - we
| got a lot of heavy rain) since that's going to cause
| water entry in the basement or erosion on the foundation.
|
| It can also be a fire hazard in many situations. Ex - in
| my area there's a mandated 10ft gap between the property
| line and any structure. It's there to prevent people from
| building right up to the property line, essentially
| creating townhomes, but with none of the fire/safety
| planning those require.
|
| All that said - I agree with you, this code is likely
| there to discourage people trying to skirt around
| inspections (and because it's easy to spot).
| ethbr0 wrote:
| Rainfall treatment around foundations is the most bizarre
| "new city" difference.
|
| Previously lived on clay soil above the freeze line:
| everything needed substantial gutters and routing away
| from home.
|
| Now live in sandy soil below the freeze line: most people
| don't even have gutters.
| hamburglar wrote:
| So you think my garage is fine? Seeking anonymous expert-
| sounding internet validation :D
| ethbr0 wrote:
| The thing to remember about building codes is that
| they're _one_ solution to a problem. More often than not,
| one good solution. That isn 't to say they're the _only_
| solution.
|
| So for new construction or reno, absolutely follow code!
|
| But for old construction that doesn't have obvious
| dangers and has served its purpose across decades? Why
| fix what ain't broke? It's entirely possibly it's a
| perfectly viable alternative solution.
| R0b0t1 wrote:
| You don't need to take power underground. Most midwestern
| construction doesn't and I usually see PVC conduit. There are
| hazards from breakage, but putting it in PVC conduit tends to
| exceed code.
| amluto wrote:
| Ignoring the type of conduit, there's NM-B and CM (hopefully)
| in the _same_ conduit.
|
| NM-B is not allowed outdoors (in "wet locations") [0], and
| running your Ethernet cable and your power in the same
| conduit is no good. (Look up the code for feeders supplying
| structures -- this is not even close to how it's done. Maybe
| you can squeak by and consider this a structure supplied by a
| branch circuit, but there are still code requirements to pay
| attention to.)
|
| Also, that weather resistant barrier.... Imagine you are a
| drop of rainwater on the outside of that WRB, following
| gravity. Where do you go? Straight to the exposed OSB
| sticking out at the bottom. The sheathing is toast in heavy
| rain.
|
| [0] NM-B has _paper_ running through it. Good old-fashioned
| water-wicking brown paper. If it gets a bit wet in a flooded
| conduit (hint: every outdoor conduit can be assumed to flood
| eventually), it will wick along the cable and never dry.
|
| edit: there is absolutely no requirement that buried conduit
| be metal. In my experience, despite code allowing various
| types of galvanized steel conduit to be buried, they tend to
| corrode severely long before whatever wires are in them are
| safely disconnected, creating a hazardous situation. You can
| use PVC, HDPE, etc.
| lazide wrote:
| Keep in mind, while yes this is a huge code issue mixing low
| voltage and high voltage - 'it depends' in a lot of
| jurisdictions on other elements.
|
| Following is for other folks running across this, in case it
| helps them.
|
| At least in California, I'm pretty sure it's code compliant
| to use _rated_ non-metallic conduit for outside high voltage
| runs for instance. That conduit is made of PVC. It's the grey
| plastic electrical conduit at every hardware store (if
| branded as UV resistant /outdoor rated).
|
| Normal PVC pipe (for water) falls apart at too low a
| temperature and becomes super brittle when exposed to
| Sunlight surprisingly quickly.
|
| It's a much better idea to use EMT or even 'hard' conduit
| depending on how it's exposed, but it's not required. EMF
| protection is nice, but I haven't seen a such a requirement
| for power feeds in residential anyway. If using 3 phase and
| some industrial equipment I imagine you'd be a jerk to not do
| so, but most residential neighborhoods here have overhead
| unshielded lines anyway.
|
| Running to a separate detached building has a bunch of rules
| around grounding (for which you'll find multiple mutually
| exclusive and conflicting codes across the county). Many
| areas don't have lightning suppression rules though.
|
| Depending on exactly how the building is constructed
| (technically 'mobile' vs 'fixed) also changes codes a lot.
| Running the equivalent of an extension cord to a 'mobile'
| structure (which can be functionally fixed) is perfectly fine
| as long as it's GFCI protected for instance. Not that he did
| that.
|
| Ideally it would be a separate sub panel, grounded and
| protected as such, with proper rated conduit, etc.
|
| But the bar is a lot lower than what you're saying if someone
| follows some basic guidelines. And can be done safely.
|
| But yeah, Article Author - you're going to get someone
| killed. Jesus.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > It's a much better idea to use EMT
|
| You cannot bury EMT underground.
|
| One of the nice things about actual metal conduit,
| depending on the nature of the soil where you live, is that
| it only needs to be buried 7" down to meet NEC rules. PVC
| conduit requires significantly more depth.
| hinkley wrote:
| Ah yes, I know about the grey PVC but spaced on it.
| Typically this is for external runs bolted to the side of a
| building though. Or at least, that's almost all I ever see
| it used for. Can you use it for open air horizontal runs?
| Say between two buildings?
|
| Data you want shielded, for the reasons I stated. Stringing
| Ethernet between buildings often ends in tears.
| jefftk wrote:
| I ran outdoor-rated cat6 in metal conduit between my
| house and shed, about 6 feet, and it has worked very
| well. What do you see as the problem?
| hattmall wrote:
| The cat 6 is fine, it's the power cable that's an issue.
| Realistically in this scenario it's fine too, it should
| be branched off of a GFCI. The only issue with the
| network cable is that it picks up static from lightning
| and blows some equipment, you can put Ethernet breakers
| on both ends though.
| zrail wrote:
| Not the OP but my understanding is that you're probably
| fine if that metal conduit is grounded. If you're
| stringing ethernet around outside you want properly
| grounded surge suppressors on both ends.
| 404mm wrote:
| I can comment on the second portion of this issue- never run
| Cat cables in parallel with electric cable.
|
| You are forcing low voltage and high voltage cables to share
| their electromagnetic field. That's never a good thing. It
| can lead to unstable connection all the way to frying your
| Ethernet card.
| saxonww wrote:
| Good news: he ran a 100ft cat6 cable so that he could plug
| in a wireless access point. His ethernet card should be
| fine.
| hamburglar wrote:
| ... but isn't there still a risk to whatever devices are
| on both ends of that cat6? ie the access point and the
| head-end router or switch?
| ryandrake wrote:
| Thank you both. The number of "Wow this is so cool!"
| encouragement-replies here is pretty scary. Building a shed
| is definitely something most people can DIY, but please don't
| make it hazardous! And, at least make an attempt to look up
| local building codes. Even if conformance is not required for
| your particular application, they can be used as a reference
| for best practices.
|
| I believe some jurisdictions now occasionally check e.g.
| Google Maps to look for obvious things like sheds built too
| close to existing structures (which this one likely is), so
| it's possible he'll get an unrequested visit from code
| enforcement anyway.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Putting signalling and power wires in the same conduit is
| about as bad as it gets.
|
| The proper way to do this is to dig a trench and use armored
| cable suitable for burial without further protection and to
| use a plastic uninterrupted tube for the cat6 (which you can
| blow through).
|
| That said, there isn't a lot of difference between a DIY
| person and a low grade contractor, and a competent DIY'er is
| probably better than most mid level contractors. The big
| difference is usually that they have the tools and they're
| with a couple of people and you're just by your lonesome.
| stickfigure wrote:
| It's short. Put a normal extension cord in the "conduit",
| with plugs on each end. At least here in California,
| electrical code ends at the receptacle. You can do
| practically anything you want on the other side, as long as
| it plugs in.
| raytube wrote:
| Just expose the armoured cable. Hardly an issue, and you
| know where it is.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Not a good idea. The outer layer is plastic, underneath
| that something that is best described as an oversized
| shower hose. Burying it will allow you to take vehicles,
| wheel barrows, lawnmowers etc over it without damaging
| it.
|
| I bought a ton of this stuff surplus from a dam
| construction, that served me quite well in Canada, some
| of the outbuildings were quite far away from the main
| house. It's pretty easy to work with, though stripping it
| is a bit of an art (you _really_ don 't want to damage
| the inner wires).
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| The author's shed is about 2 feet from the house
| exterior, so he can wrap the steps around as decking
| (very tiny decking) and put the cable under the steps.
| ErrantX wrote:
| You can get armoured cable specifically with UV rating
| for this. I'd only ever run it against a wall etc. But it
| is designed to be above ground.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| You just went from concerned citizen, to person with anger
| management issues lashing out. If your thoughts here were in
| good faith, you would help the author learn about code
| compliance so that he could make the necessary modifications
| and learn about the real-world consequences of not being in
| compliance. Instead you're making a threat to send code
| enforcement after him so that he can be punished for being
| ignorant. Please try to re-evaluate the feelings you have and
| ask yourself if there is a more positive, less harmful way to
| use those feelings.
| wbl wrote:
| The punishment for building code violations is death. The
| building code enforcement is a lot more lenient in
| comparison.
| jholman wrote:
| Help me to understand who dies when the rooflines
| overlap?
| jefftk wrote:
| That's a pretty big overstatement. For example, using
| insufficient insulation is a code violation, but it is
| not going to kill you.
| hamburglar wrote:
| Also, the punishment isn't necessarily meted out on the
| actual perpetrator.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| All the people replying to this minimizing the concerns
| of the original comment need to go back and reread it.
| The point that really raised their hackles was the
| electrical issue, not insulation or overlapping
| rooflines.
|
| Electricity can instantly kill you or start a fire, which
| could kill you and your neighbors. Look at what just
| happened in Boulder. Fire is dangerous, especially when
| combined with high winds. I personally saw that play out
| twice while living in Boston, one of which was determined
| to have been caused by sparks from unpermitted welding,
| the other by improper disposal of smoldering construction
| debris. Both small starts whipped up by winds, both times
| multiple people died.
|
| The phrase I've heard is "regulations are written in
| blood."
| R0b0t1 wrote:
| Most building codes are not a life or death matter. Most
| of them are windowsill clearance, door clearance, minutia
| about the spacing of steps. In some locations you have
| really stupid proscriptions about load bearing structure
| types (so e.g. you can't use a metal frame for your house
| simply because they specify you must use wood).
| adolph wrote:
| Something I appreciate about HN is the number of reverse-
| bikeshedding moments there are and for which the parent comment
| exemplifies. Points out a critical flaw and explains it in
| plain language with no rhetorical flourishes.
|
| _Bikeshedding describes our tendency to spend too much time
| discussing trivial matters, and too little time discussing
| important matters as a result. It describes the inverse
| relationship between time spent and the importance of an
| issue._
|
| https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding/
| Fwirt wrote:
| Also it sounds like he ran both the low voltage network cable
| and the high voltage line-level power wiring inside of the same
| conduit which is a big no-no for various code and safety
| related reasons. From what I understand messing with electric
| code violations is not a good idea, if your homeowners
| insurance finds out you put in some janky stuff like that and
| your house burns down, they might invalidate your policy
| because it was your fault.
| hinkley wrote:
| A plastic conduit, ffs.
| adventured wrote:
| The home insurance people will absolutely nail him on this.
| They'll eventually send someone out to inspect the property
| on a policy renewal. They'll refuse to renew the policy until
| the code violations are corrected. And they'll definitely
| notice and have questions about the odd 'shed' that looks new
| and very out of place.
|
| If he has really wired it as it seems, if anything
| consequential (unrelated) happens to the property in the
| meantime they'll use that against him when they inspect post
| event. They'll try to claim he breached the policy prior to
| the event.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Where do you live that insurance companies send inspectors
| 'round? I've owned 2 houses for a total of over 25 years
| and never had an insurance inspector visit nor heard of
| them visiting anyone else for a renewal.
|
| Is this common elsewhere in the world?
| chrisdhal wrote:
| I have rental properties and it happens about every other
| year before a renewal. They definitely find things that
| need fixing. That being said, I've never had it happen on
| my primary residence (20+ years).
| dudul wrote:
| Been a homeowner for 10+ years and it never happened to
| me either. I only see insurance people when I have a
| claim to evaluate the cost.
| jjeaff wrote:
| Home insurance covers stupidity as well as acts of god, in
| most cases They might send an inspector and then refuse to
| insure, but if you are paying the premium and make an out of
| code change that causes a claim, they are going to have to
| pay out for the most part unless your out of code changes are
| super negligent. Using screws instead of nails would
| definitely not be considered super negligent. Nor would
| anything ever be inspected close enough to notice that.
| Running electrical through the wrong type of PVC is also not
| likely to be considered negligent enough to deny a claim. Of
| course, doing everything right the first time is the better
| way to go anyway as you never know when an insurance may
| become super petty and try to deny a claim for whatever
| reason they can find.
| InvertedRhodium wrote:
| PVC-U cable ducting for 240V cabling is the norm here in NZ,
| just helped my dad lay about 60m of it from the house to the
| office. I doubt it's going to be the end of the world.
| 14 wrote:
| That was the first thing I noticed as well. I don't blame him
| mind you since I would have assumed they are better and easier
| as well but recently my brother who is a carpenter told me you
| have to use nails they are needed. This just reminds me that
| being handy is good but knowing code is critical for some
| thing. In this case he will probably get away with just screws.
| rectang wrote:
| > _being handy is good but knowing code is critical for some
| things_
|
| The subject of building code seems vast. How can you get to
| the point where you even know what you don't know?
| simpsond wrote:
| You can always do it the hard way and have an inspector
| tell you what is wrong, fix it, repeat. The whole point of
| inspection is to get it right. This method isn't cost
| efficient for starting. Find friends to ask questions
| before starting to reduce inspection failures.
| 14 wrote:
| The simple answer is testing. When you go to school you get
| a test that certifies you have a basic knowledge. It may
| not cover every aspect but will teach you where to find the
| answers you don't know.
| rectang wrote:
| Oh? School for what? Maybe general contracting?
|
| A while back I looked briefly into what it would take to
| be an electrician, and it seemed like there was quite a
| lot to know. I wonder how soon you get to the stage where
| you could wire up a shed like this with full confidence
| that you've done everything to code.
|
| From there, how many other subjects do you have to get
| right? I learned how to swing a hammer as a kid but I
| wouldn't know jack about designing load bearing
| structures, weather proofing, foundations, hanging
| windows and doors, etc -- let alone plumbing, HVAC, etc.
| 14 wrote:
| Electrical is a whole field of expertise. To wire a shed
| to code however is not that hard. I've done my dad's tiny
| home personally and then had my electrician friend come
| in after and said it was all done and to code. Some of
| the skills overlap but usually the carpenters do the work
| and at a certain point the electrician comes in and does
| all his work then the carpenter finish up. The real
| secret to getting fully comfortable is doing an
| apprenticeship where someone is going over all your work.
| spc476 wrote:
| Have an architect as a friend? I have such a friend, and
| it's always fascinating when talking to him about building
| codes and such (such as the type of covering for network
| cables in a commercial setting depends upon the type of A/C
| used in the building, due to concerns over fire hazards and
| air intake).
| pjc50 wrote:
| > Not that anything about this shed is built to code
|
| This is why we can't have nice, or at least affordable but
| slightly less than perfect, things. I would also note that,
| while I'm sure everyone's right about the rules in Santa Cruz,
| this is jurisdiction specific. In the UK, if your shed is less
| than 15m^2 and is not used as living accomodation, no building
| regulations apply, and you can build it with screws, nails, or
| corrugated cardboard and PVA glue if you're so inclined.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > In the UK, if your shed is less than 15m^2 and is not used
| as living accomodation, no building regulations apply, and
| you can build it with screws, nails, or corrugated cardboard
| and PVA glue if you're so inclined.
|
| In many US locations you aren't required to pull a permit and
| get inspections for sheds below a certain square footage
| either.
|
| But that's not a free pass to build an unsafe structure.
| Using (non-structural) screws instead of nails is not a big
| deal for something this small that won't see snow load, but
| other things like mixing high voltage wiring and low-voltage
| wiring in the same conduit are a problem regardless of code.
|
| Connecting something to the electrical system will also
| invoke code regulations, regardless of the size. There's no
| free pass for ignoring electrical regulations just because a
| building is below a certain size in the US, and I doubt there
| is in the UK either.
| ErrantX wrote:
| You can. But some esoteric rules apply, and there are fire
| regs if it's close to a building. Oh and electrical regs
| apply.
|
| But yes building in the UK is much freer.
|
| I sense it is much less common (beyond a basic shed or
| conservatory) though therefore less of an issue to solve.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _This is why we can 't have nice, or at least affordable but
| slightly less than perfect, things._
|
| I really enjoyed reading the article just as someone who
| likes writing and reading. It was very engaging and I enjoyed
| the process he went through from having an idea to finally
| committing to it and I especially liked him commenting on
| things like choosing materials that fit in his car.
|
| I also really am enjoying the comments on HN from
| knowledgeable, experienced people who know whereof they speak
| and I appreciate your comment because I spent years homeless
| and I've studied housing issues and lack of affordable
| housing is a root cause of homelessness in the US.
|
| So this is a real issue and I'm reminded of the fact that
| after racist White people burned down "Black Wall Street"
| they then began interfering with the rebuilding by trying to
| pass more stringent fire safety codes when building codes had
| nothing to do with why it burned down. It burned down because
| hateful people torched it.
|
| And I wonder how we solve this. I wonder how we balance all
| those concerns of not squelching creative impetus and not
| squelching a desire to add something cost effectively with
| real world concerns that "If you do it that way, people die
| or you burn out your Ethernet card (or whatever)."
|
| Seems like with the internet being a thing, we could find
| ways to balance those many issues. But so far we really
| aren't.
|
| People in the know are often comfortably well off. They have
| no problem with saying "Well, pay the few extra bucks to do
| it right." and the result is some people are sleeping in the
| streets and it falls on deaf ears when you try to draw those
| connections.
|
| It's frustrating.
| caslon wrote:
| (For anyone who thinks DoreenMichele was being hyperbolic:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre)
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > So this is a real issue and I'm reminded of the fact that
| after racist White people burned down "Black Wall Street"
| they then began interfering with the rebuilding by trying
| to pass more stringent fire safety codes
|
| This 100% has nothing to do with it. Screws aren't even the
| easy, cheap, or fast option for construction. Everyone
| defaults to nails anyway because they're the cheap, fast,
| easy, and correct option for framing.
|
| Building a code-compliant small structure is basically
| trivial these days. The information is readily available
| from so many different sources that you have to ignore them
| all and choose to improvise your own thing, such as using
| screws instead of framing nails in a framing nailer, to get
| things done.
|
| Many of the code violations in this build are just common
| sense problems, like putting high voltage wiring in a pipe
| with low-voltage wiring.
|
| > People in the know are often comfortably well off. They
| have no problem with saying "Well, pay the few extra bucks
| to do it right." and the result is some people are sleeping
| in the streets and it falls on deaf ears when you try to
| draw those connections.
|
| Construction workers are well-versed in building to code.
| It's definitely _not_ causing housing shortages or even
| remotely related to it. Code isn't causing houses to not be
| built, and abolishing building code wouldn't increase the
| rate of construction.
|
| Zoning, on the other hand, is a huge problem.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _Trivial_ for someone in the know can mean "If you have
| a PhD and a decade of experience, it's obvious." People
| not in the know who look things up online have the
| problem that they often cannot properly judge the quality
| of the information they are seeing.
|
| I'm confident that some of the people on HN saying "Oh.
| God. Don't do that." Actually know whereof they speak.
| Reading the article in no way tripped any warning lights
| for me. I just thought it was an enjoyable read for other
| reasons.
|
| This is not the right forum to say that. I said that and
| it was downvoted and I deleted that comment to leave the
| one above cuz reasons (not due to the downvote per se)
| but the downvote helps tell me my enthusiasm for the
| writing quality etc is unwelcome here because so many
| people here do know it's bad construction.
|
| I agree zoning is an issue. It's a huge issue, as is car-
| centric design.
|
| But, no, it's not trivial from my perspective but I feel
| like it ought to be easier to sort the wheat from the
| chaff and so forth. The internet seems like a huge
| opportunity to foster better processes for DIY projects.
|
| But, then, I naively thought nearly two years back that
| "Surely, the CDC or WHO will have a list of recommended
| OTC meds for self care for Covid to discourage people
| from going to the hospital and spreading it." and was
| unable to find such.
|
| I was at one time pursuing an online degree. I have had a
| college class in online search. If it existed and I was
| unable to find it, I am skeptical that "your average Joe"
| could find it.
|
| I think there is so much potential to do things better
| than this. The internet is a tremendous opportunity to
| help make effective answers available for "free" to the
| masses and we see some of that happening but I remain
| shocked and confused by the huge gaps in such that still
| remain.
| [deleted]
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| Was thinking the same thing. Also a nail gum would make putting
| that frame together pretty easy. I worked in construction until
| I was in my mid 20's and I'm amazed at how uninformed people
| are when building sheds and tiny homes. YouTube also spreads a
| lot of bad info.
| sethev wrote:
| While you're not wrong about nails vs screws for framing - this
| a 6x6 box, it's not going to matter.
| crawshaw wrote:
| To support your point: if you are a DIYer who is not super cost
| sensitive, for example if you have a tech job, then I highly
| recommend structural screws. (I quite like GRK RSS fasteners.)
| It requires more research than you might think to find screws
| that are properly rated, but it is much more fun to do small
| projects with an impact driver than a nail gun or hammer.
| [deleted]
| cgh wrote:
| > You can get structural screws, but they're uncommon,
| expensive
|
| Agreed that eg GRK R4 structural screws are pricey, but they
| are widely available. You can buy them at Home Depot, for
| example. I do like them better than nails for small projects.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| This might be true where you are. It is not universally so.
| jopsen wrote:
| > Screws are convenient, sure, but they are necessarily much
| harder than nails and are prone to embrittlement and
| cracking,...
|
| That sounds like bike-shedding :D
| sneak wrote:
| It's not, when you are talking about load-bearing framing.
| jjeaff wrote:
| Ya, it is bike shedding in most cases. I've seen a few side
| by side comparisons of nails vs screws for framing and while
| it's true that screws are more likely to sheer off, nails are
| more likely to pull out. And assuming you used a reasonable
| size and quantity of screws, the load required to sheer them
| will be so far and above anything required by code that it
| becomes a distinction without a difference.
| ARandomerDude wrote:
| > nails are more likely to pull out
|
| That's why you toe nail in opposite directions, giving you
| the best of both worlds.
| fock wrote:
| as a dumb european: what are non-structural screws? I've
| only ever seen people building their bike-shacks and
| terrace stuff, using "Spax". Which are sold as "structural"
| screws in the US. Then, if you somehow fix together things
| with a classic nut and bolt-screws (from mechanical
| engineering): well, for most real things you probably would
| think about the force anyway I hope. And then screws are
| used in like any industrial machine...
| cobookman wrote:
| You can get framing screws that bend similar to framing nails.
|
| As for code, yeah most cities have codes on the hight and
| setback of backyard sheds. This shed doesn't look like it meets
| either.
|
| https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sdw...
| kmonsen wrote:
| Does anyone know how zoning restrictions affect this in
| California? Wondering at what point you need to get approval to
| set up something in your backyard.
| fargle wrote:
| Check your city/county, but in most places in CA and the rest
| of the US, zoning allows up to a 120 square foot shed without
| building permits. Neighborhood HOAs, if applicable, would be
| the other restriction.
|
| 36 square feet? good to go.
|
| If I were to do it, I'd make it slightly bigger and put a
| electrical sub-panel in it with an extension cord like an RV
| has. You could plug it into anywhere with an RV outlet.
|
| It's also easy enough to move any shed like this that's 8 feet
| wide or less on a car-hauler trailer or with dollys/rollers
| underneath.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| building permit is not a zoning permit. OP may still need to
| get a zoning permit.
| fargle wrote:
| I didn't say they were the same thing. And I meant what I
| said: _zoning_ allows a shed without _building_ permits in
| most places. It depends on the jurisdiction but because of
| _model_ zoning codes the rules are almost all the same
| across CA.
|
| In CA and most of the US there is usually no separate
| "zoning permit", although it exists in a few places (I see
| berkeley and sonoma county). Usually zoning and the
| development and land use codes just say what you're allowed
| to do, and are enforced based on helpful neighbor-driven
| complaints. But you usually don't need a permit up front
| except for things like conditional use and special use
| permits, certainly not a shed. For things requiring a
| building permit, the permitted use (zoning) is just part of
| that process.
|
| The OP can and should check the city/county and find out.
| The point I'm trying to make is there is actually a fairly
| high likely hood that even in over-regulated CA you can
| build a 120 sq. ft. "shed" or "playhouse" in the backyard
| without a _building_ or _zoning_ permit. Without knowing
| the exact jurisdiction, this is just general advice about
| the _most usual_ practices - for example San Diego, LA, San
| Bernardino cities and counties.
|
| One thing I should mention: technically plumbing/electrical
| in the shed or calling it or using it as an "office" might
| not be kosher, but in practice everyone does this with no
| issue. It's just a very nice "playhouse".
| ecopoesis wrote:
| No way this shed can be moved. It's built with drywall screws
| and 24" centers. If you kick a wall it's likely to flat pack
| itself.
| hattmall wrote:
| Where are you seeing he used drywall screws? I use deck and
| construction screws for framing all the time, it's fine.
| You can always add nails too. 24" centers are ok for this
| too, there's very little weight. Far less well constructed
| sheds are moved daily.
| fargle wrote:
| Many sheds are built this way. Some even lighter - e.g. the
| overpriced wood sheds you buy pre-built use very minimal
| framing. And they all can be moved just fine. I commented
| because it's somewhat surprising how easy it is and how
| well it works.
| 2ICofafireteam wrote:
| Cool.
|
| For the in-garage option, I've encountered three fully enclosed
| and insulated cubicles/offices in garages.
|
| The first was a construction Project manager who built his along
| one side wall of his garage. I was very curious and talked with
| them about it and they had a couple good thoughts. The first was
| that they had a nice big window opening to the garage. Even it
| only gave them a view of their pickup truck, it really made the
| office feel less like a closet and could be opened for
| ventilation. The other advice was to leave enough room by the
| garage door for a repairman to get at everything; on a long
| enough timeline it will be necessary.
|
| The other two were built by tradesmen I knew with single bay
| shops. They both built their offices on big casters for
| flexibility and one would roll theirs outside when they cleanded
| the shop.
| hbarka wrote:
| Very nice! I like the sliding door idea. Thanks for sharing.
| amacneil wrote:
| Awesome project! How long did it take total?
|
| Note that it's against code to run electrical and data cable in
| the same conduit, both for safety and interference. Get outdoor
| rated cat 6 and leave it out of the conduit instead.
| jefftk wrote:
| Or run two conduits in parallel
| Mizza wrote:
| I hate to be a bore, but.. did zoning come into play? I know a
| place that had to tear theirs down once the city found out.
| psim1 wrote:
| In my part of the US, a temporary structure does not require a
| permit or zoning allowance, while a permanent structure does.
| When we build sheds to meet the "temporary" definition, they
| are built on top of cinderblocks and not a poured concrete
| foundation. In this case, the author built his shed directly on
| top of his patio, so I am curious whether this would be
| considered a permanent or temporary installation.
| codazoda wrote:
| I think this would still be temporary in my area because you
| can pick it up and put it on a flatbread trailer. The wiring
| might change that.
|
| I think there are still lots of rules to follow.
| robotresearcher wrote:
| Bonus points for the temporary trailer.
| rzzzt wrote:
| The question is how many flatbreads you need for building
| one.
| davidw wrote:
| This is from California which is, uh, not known for a light
| regulatory touch in things like permits or zoning.
| dekhn wrote:
| CA has been lightening up about ADUs, it's typically not
| hard to put one in. There were a few legal changes in 2020,
| allowing larger sizes, less planning oversight, less
| parking requirements, utility hookups can be shared with
| the primary building.
|
| The permits are pretty easy to get.
| pkaye wrote:
| I live in SF bay area and I can build a accessory structure
| of 150SF or smaller without a permit.
| beamatronic wrote:
| In Santa Cruz it is illegal to insulate your garage, lest
| it become housing.
| Fraaaank wrote:
| Looks cool! What would worry me is that you're displaying a
| screen and (presumably) a computer in front of a large window
| outside of your house. Of course I don't know what the rest of
| the property looks like, but from the pictures it looks perfect
| for burglars.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Are you from South Africa by any chance?
| nkrisc wrote:
| He mentioned blackout curtains so perhaps he can at least
| obscure what's inside when he locks up for the night.
|
| But assuming it's a fenced in yard in the US, if someone is
| already in there when they shouldn't be they're already quite
| committed to mischief anyway.
| fragmede wrote:
| My interpretation is that the fence behind the shed is the
| street, so the glass doors on the shed faces other houses.
| Other houses which can probably already see TV/etc in the
| presumably glass-doored living room that faces the same
| direction if they were to look.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| IgorPartola wrote:
| I am planning on building what is essentially a tiny house for my
| shoffice. Basically I want something that also includes a bed and
| a shower/bathroom. My biggest concern is whether I will need to
| pull permits for this project and/or if I need a foundation or if
| I can get away with a gravel pad + railroad ties as the base.
| Tying into house plumbing and power is going to be the trick I
| guess.
| alistairSH wrote:
| At minimum, you should swing by (virtually these days, but in
| past years, you could go in person) your local building
| enforcement office. I suspect that as soon as you add
| electrical or plumbing, you need permits and inspections, as
| it's no longer a shed.
| 2ICofafireteam wrote:
| Some bylaw research is always in order because it can get
| sticky.
|
| Where I happen to be, I can build what I like without a permit
| as long as it's under 100 sq ft, doesn't tie in to plumbing or
| electrical, isn't in lot setback areas, and it doesn't push the
| lot coverage over the limit _but_ if I were to park a trailer
| on the property for any other reason than to store it, I 'm in
| trouble.
|
| Never assume. I knew someone in the situation of being on a
| road that was a zone boundary. Research revealed they couldn't
| do what they wanted just because the guy across the street was
| doing it too.
|
| Another angle to look into: Have you considered just buying a
| travel trailer or pre-built shed to use as an office? More than
| once I have personally fallen into the trap of spending $100 in
| materials and $1000 of my time to avoid a $500 expense when my
| time would have been better spent getting back to work to pay
| for a bought solution.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| I definitely am considering getting a camper as well. That
| seems like a more straightforward solution, just potentially
| a more expensive one in the long run.
|
| I'll definitely do my research and see what I can come up
| with.
| jefftk wrote:
| I think it's very likely that the OP was supposed to pull a
| permit and get zoning permission, but if you are going to be
| including plumbing and sleeping, you almost certainly need to.
| [deleted]
| drodio wrote:
| I'm such a fan of this. Nicely done! I opted for a $3k Costco
| shed and went off grid with it even though it's in my back yard:
| https://drodio.com/going-all-in-on-an-off-grid-workspace/
|
| Off grid = No need for a permit but more importantly, a proof of
| concept that with starlink, this small office "shedquarters"
| could be placed anywhere in the world -- say a beach in Costa
| Rica for example!
| jacquesm wrote:
| Imagine if all the nerds that could afford it set up their
| shacks on the beach in Costa Rica. Instant slum. I prefer the
| beach without such structures.
| drodio wrote:
| Replace "beach in Costa Rica" with any remote (or not) global
| location of your choice, which is the point.
|
| We're 1 year away from a low latency, gigabit speed
| "shedquarters" workspace being available anywhere in the
| world for under $10k.
| spiderice wrote:
| Looks awesome. I'd love something like that in my backyard.
| Only wish the write-up was longer!
| drodio wrote:
| The longer original shed writeup is here:
| https://drodio.com/creating-your-own-remote-workspace-for-
| un...
| jefftk wrote:
| Being off-grid wouldn't normally get you around building code;
| where are you that it does?
| drodio wrote:
| San Mateo: under 120 sq ft; no electrical.
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| Was the fast internet stuff worth it? I have a google mesh
| router in my garage about 20' from my house and I get ~180mbs
| out there.
| drodio wrote:
| I'm using Ruckus setup which is bulletproof inside the house
| but wasn't consistent in the shed, so yes, worth it
| anotherevan wrote:
| "Starlink works great until the cats find out that the dish
| gives off a little heat on cold days."
|
| https://twitter.com/Tippen22/status/1476985855981993984
| aosaigh wrote:
| This is great to see. Very nicely documented project and a
| fantastic result. Encouraging to see people with little past
| experience doing projects like this. I'm in the process of
| planning a self-build cabin in the woods, so also diving into
| YouTube to learn all of the requisite skills.
| heyrhett wrote:
| Seymour Cray would dig tunnels
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray#Personal_life
| [deleted]
| rectang wrote:
| There is so much involved with building structures, even
| something like a shed. Sheesh.
|
| I always figured that if I wanted to do a serious project like
| this, I would first do some volunteer work, maybe with Habitat
| for Humanity or similar, just to gain some experience.
|
| Does anybody have stories about noobs volunteering to help with
| construction?
| ErrantX wrote:
| I did this too!
|
| It genuinely is not that hard. I did spend most time working out
| the right spec (ie safety, structural etc.) and the main build
| took me about 2 months. I was in by month 3 and fully finished by
| 4 months.
|
| I am ok with big structural stuff, interior (drywalling for
| example) I don't have the finesse for, but it looks OK.
|
| I love DIY, it gets me off a keyboard! And scratches the
| engineering itch I miss as a people leader.
|
| It's not hard though. Like anything it takes a bit of planning
| and practice. Plus the confidence to have a go.
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