[HN Gopher] Ford F-150 Lightning reservation holders face $30k d...
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Ford F-150 Lightning reservation holders face $30k dealer markup as
demand high
Author : harambae
Score : 86 points
Date : 2022-01-02 16:08 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.notebookcheck.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.notebookcheck.net)
| avelis wrote:
| There are dealers that don't do markups like this. Sad to see
| this happen but it's not surprising.
| HelloNurse wrote:
| The article is unclear and comments seem contradictory: is it a
| price hike for new reservations or a bait and switch for old
| ones? The former would be merely sad, the latter _should_ be
| illegal.
| jmspring wrote:
| Many in demand vehicles have seen dealer markups. Sprinter vans -
| two different dealers in the Bay Area - markups for 4x4 and high
| roof.
| Gelob wrote:
| These dealer markups in the chip shortage are insane. Went into a
| Kia dealership that had two Seltos on the lot. Prepared to pay
| sticker price of 24k even with bullshit delivery mark-up. Then
| they ran our credit and told us it would be 38k because they
| added bullshit mark-ups. We walked out the door.
| short12 wrote:
| Why are things like the PS5 not being handled the same way and
| squeeze the scummy scalpers out of the game
| NikolaeVarius wrote:
| Because that would cause an uproar that Sony is scalping
| gamers. Same with Nvidia.
| rossjudson wrote:
| One of the graphics card makers (PNY?) created an invitation
| system and would sell to randomly selected invites at MSRP.
| They stopped doing it, though -- I suspect they got flooded by
| scalpers adding immense numbers of email addresses into the
| "pool".
|
| Defeating the scale part of the scalper attack means charging
| an entrance fee, or using some other "proof" that hard to get
| at scale (like a credit card number). I like the idea of a
| long-term refundable reservation fee (pay $25 to get on the
| lottery list via _distinct_ credit card, and if it 's not
| delivered in a year or two you get your money back).
|
| Something like a Gamestop membership is somewhat useful as
| well, but I'd just really rather see the manufacturers adopt
| reservation systems.
|
| Of course this is all just idle speculation. Lots of smart
| people (on both sides) have been thinking about this problem
| for a long time.
| kbenson wrote:
| You say scummy scalpers like it isn't every random person also
| doing it. Every time I've heard of someone coming across an
| extra one the last year they've had zero qualms about selling
| it for a profit. The only difference is that some people decide
| to do it more often.
|
| As a sibling comment bored, there are ways to deal with this,
| but honestly other than selling them at market price or somehow
| making more, most options are limited, because that's just how
| the market works.
| avidiax wrote:
| What I would like to see is PS5's sold at market price by Sony,
| but the overage is donated to a charity of the buyer's choice.
|
| It pushes the scalpers out of the game, which means there's
| less idle inventory, and the price can come down a little
| faster.
|
| Another alternative is to sell at MSRP, but bind it to the
| buyer for a year. This means that it can be only be resold as a
| brick within a year, which is obviously unattractive to
| scalpers. To prevent scalpers selling a sale-sniping service,
| just take orders from qualified buyers anytime, then fill them
| randomly in e.g. a 7 day window. Within a week you either get a
| PS5 bound to you or a refund and a chance to try again.
| hogFeast wrote:
| CogitoCogito wrote:
| I don't understand business rationale of not just returning the
| deposit to those who don't want to pay the extra. Seems like a
| good way to burn basically all potential future customers while
| simultaneously pulling in more money than expected.
|
| Maybe I'm kissing something? Are the dealers themselves paying
| more for the trucks?
| avidiax wrote:
| Dealer's know about the sunk-cost fallacy. Very few people are
| going to walk away from that new truck that they were so
| enthusiastic about put down $5k to reserve it.
|
| Dealerships are typically a low-margin business, and probably
| negative margin during the early part of the pandemic. An
| e-truck is probably going to last 10+ years and rarely go to
| the dealer service dept. (the high margin part of the
| business).
|
| So if you ran a dealership, and you knew that the market price
| for this e-truck was much higher than MSRP, and you aren't
| going to make anything on the back-end with dealer service, and
| you've been starving for many months, what would you do? Leave
| the money on the table? Worry that your customer won't return
| sometime in the next 3-10 years, long after the sting of being
| forced to pay market price wears off?
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Everyone knew the $39k Lightning was as much of a fantasy as the
| $30k Model 3, and this markup puts them right in line with
| Tesla/Rivian. But now we get to wait another 5-10 years for an
| actually affordable EV work truck to be a thing. Unfortunately
| battery prices are going to keep EV's in the realm of rich person
| toys and second cars for years to come still.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Used EVs probably will be very well equipped and seriously
| affordable?
| thrower123 wrote:
| In any place where road salt is used in the winter, they'll
| be just as rotten out as ICE vehicles at the end of a five or
| six year auto loan.
| seattle_spring wrote:
| Where does this myth come from? I grew up in Utah where the
| roads are basically made of salt for 6 months a year. There
| are old cars everywhere. I had two that lasted to 200k
| miles, and it wasn't rust that pushed them over the edge.
| Just wash your car and it'll be fine.
|
| I'm not saying there's no affect at all, but suggesting the
| car will be unusable in 5 years (less than 100k on average)
| is an exaggeration bordering on dishonesty.
| blackguardx wrote:
| The 5 year thing is an exaggeration, but it definitely
| isn't a myth. The midwest and new england area gets a lot
| more snow than the western US outside small mountain
| towns. Also, the western US tends to use more
| environmentally friendly road salts that also don't cause
| as much corrosion as rock salt (NaCl). In the east, roads
| are heavily salted with rock salt and it is (or was
| common when I lived there) for cars to to be heavily
| rusted out 10 years in. People still drive those cars,
| but parts break more frequently.
|
| When I moved to California in 2007, a local mechanic
| freaked out about all the rust on my 2001 car and advised
| me to sell it immediately. I kept that car and eventually
| sold it on to someone from the east coast who didn't see
| any issues.
| brewtide wrote:
| Maine here. Not only do they sand and salt a ton, but I
| believe it is Calcium-Chloride that they spray down
| _before_ storms are about to hit. Liquid, onto the roads.
| You should see cars following 10 ft behind them on the
| highway when this is being done... eeek.
|
| You can _literally_ hear it eating at your car if in a
| quiet place.
|
| "Not too rusty" around here is... Well, you're familiar.
| rossjudson wrote:
| Decades ago my Canadian family had a Volvo that made it
| for nearly 20 years, and was a total rust bucket at the
| end of that time ;)
|
| Somewhere near the end of that, a brand new Acura was
| bought. That made it through the next 20 years (on the
| same roads), and had next to no corrosion.
|
| The manufacturers really did get a lot better!
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| I wonder if your experience also resulted from changes in
| use of road salt? I found this work done around the early
| 2000s: https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-
| change/services...
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| Look into the "salt belt", and the references there
| regarding anti-lock brake and air bag sensor recalls only
| from these states:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt
|
| Note that the airbag recall included Utah, while the
| antilock brake probe did not. Also note that as
| mentioned, "other states such as ... Utah are also
| considered part of the Salt Belt but use less corrosive
| substances."
|
| Did you exclusively drive on salted roads in Utah?
| There's also the whole part of the state that is desert.
| I don't think it compares to humid coastal states that
| also receive heavy snowfall and happen to include several
| huge metropolitan areas, with all the car commuting that
| entails.
| ghaff wrote:
| >at the end of a five or six year auto loan
|
| Varies by where you are and how much you drive, especially
| in snowy conditions. But my experience is that most
| vehicles are better than that these days. You should be
| able to get to 10 years pretty reliably--and often 5+ years
| beyond before you start getting into expensive rust-related
| repairs. My prior SUV (a Ford) I definitely held onto about
| a year too long with a couple of expensive repairs
| associated with corroded fluids lines but that was almost a
| 20 year old vehicle in New England.
| gpm wrote:
| What parts usually rot out on ICE's and do they have
| equivalents on EV's? Getting rid of a large percentage of
| the moving parts seems like it might be a win (but I'm
| really not sure).
| ghaff wrote:
| In my experience, frame/body (though that's better than
| it used to be). Fluid lines (brakes, power steering),
| muffler, other power train components [ADDED: Not so much
| powertrain itself but some of the associated hardware].
| So some is common. Some is not. But presumably the motors
| in an EV could rust out as well.
| bri3d wrote:
| Corrosion usually affects the body, the suspension, the
| exhaust, and bolts. The only thing the EV doesn't have is
| an exhaust system. And compared to the Model 3, which is
| mostly steel, there are some ICE cars which could do
| better - for example, the Ford F-150 has had a majority
| aluminum body for a few years now.
|
| Regardless, this isn't a win for the EV column, it's not
| the powertrain that rots.
| thrower123 wrote:
| Rocker panels, wheel wells, fenders, cab corners. If that
| bodywork is rotted out on a modern unibody vehicle, it
| will fail safety inspections and has to be repaired.
| xeromal wrote:
| If used EV trucks are anything like real trucks, they don't
| really drop in price until it's such a piece of shit that it
| needs major repairs.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| > realm of rich person toys
|
| Unfortunately 7 year and 8 year car loans are a thing and make
| expensive vehicles accessible to those with more meager
| incomes. They are terrible ideas though (for the consumer)
| secabeen wrote:
| Another sign of the challenges of the dealer system. Ford took
| reservations, but then depends on dealers to close the sale, and
| they can increase the price.
|
| For all their faults, Tesla held to their original pricing on S,
| X, and 3 for early reservations, even giving them free upgrades
| when the production model had higher specs than the original
| announcements. More recently, Tesla has hit some reservation
| holders with modest price increases, but not at over 50% of the
| base price of the vehicle like we're seeing here.
| dragontamer wrote:
| The issue is that if Tesla does it, you have no recourse.
|
| If a random dealership does this to me, I walk down the street
| to the other dealership and buy a car from them.
| notatoad wrote:
| That's the theory. The reality is that if there is actually
| multiple dealers in your region, they're probably all owned
| by the same group.
|
| There's four Ford dealerships within reasonable distance of
| me, they're all the same company.
| clintonb wrote:
| What happens if there isn't another dealer down the street,
| or if every dealer is marking up the price?
| bmitc wrote:
| Don't buy it.
| dcdc123 wrote:
| Then in this case, you lose your deposit and they sell it
| to someone else for the same markup you declined.
| lukevp wrote:
| The deposit is refundable
| dcdc123 wrote:
| > An additional non-refundable US$5,000 deposit is
| apparently also required to place an order for the
| electric pickup truck.
| tromp wrote:
| Isn't the deposit with Ford directly rather than a
| particular dealer?
| yumraj wrote:
| > Tesla held to their original pricing on S, X, and 3 for early
| reservations,
|
| That's some serious rewriting of history, at least for Model 3.
| Musk announced Model 3 at $35K price, took reservation money,
| and later announced that it will be a $45K Model 3 (or was it
| higher?). The $35K Model 3 came much much later, after the Fed
| credit had ended, and I believe was only there for a short time
| (I stopped checking after the above bait and switch).
| hnburnsy wrote:
| As the owner of the cheapest Tesla ever sold in the US, let
| me tell you my story. I placed a day 2 reservation for the
| $35,000 Tesla. It took over two years, but the final price I
| paid excluding destination was $36500 and I was eligible for
| the tax credit at 50% off (3500).
| sklargh wrote:
| I give VW a lot of credit here, they somehow got dealers to
| hold the line on the ID.4. It was a long wait but a good
| delivery and purchase experience.
| kmonsen wrote:
| No they did not. I recently tried to buy an id4 and was told
| by the dealer that there was a 5k markup from sticker price
| and no reservation system. They have a list of people they
| will call when a car gets to the dealership and the first to
| shore up in person will get it.
| technothrasher wrote:
| I just heard a story from a local guy who ordered a custom
| build Porsche, put down a sizeable deposit, waited six
| months, and then got the call that it was in at the
| dealership. When he went down there the next day to do the
| paperwork, they told him somebody that morning made them a
| cash offer and so they sold the car out from under him.
| Matheus28 wrote:
| Damn, that's a way to lose a customer for life. I'd be
| fuming if I were that customer.
| technothrasher wrote:
| The guy told me this story as a way of warning me against
| ordered a car from this particular dealer. Problem is,
| the other Porsche dealer in the area I have heard
| different but just as terrible stories about. One was
| that they are selling cars as new that had already been
| put "in service" months ago, so if you bought from them
| without checking, you wouldn't get your full warranty
| period.
|
| I've had plenty of terrible experiences with pretty much
| all local dealers I've dealt with, Audi, BMW, Ford, VW...
| dealers can get away with being terrible because they all
| are and there's nowhere to go.
| protomyth wrote:
| Each state has a office that deals with and licenses
| dealerships. If he put down a deposit and had paperwork,
| it might be worth it to look them up. They can basically
| close down a dealership at will.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| > Ford took reservations
|
| iirc, for a Mach-E reservation, Ford made you choose a local
| dealer as part of the process.
|
| Anyone know how that played out? Were you locked into that
| dealer, and could they adjust the price?
|
| The Mach-E $500 was refundable, like with Tesla. I'm reading
| that the Lightning deposit is $100, refundable. So the $5000
| must be the step beyond that.
| tw04 wrote:
| Yes you were locked in and yes they could adjust the price. I
| got around that by going through a dealer in the Costco
| network. I figured the full force of Costco would be enough
| to prevent shenanigans and it worked.
| chihuahua wrote:
| I tried the Costco dealer thing once and there were still
| shenanigans, so nothing is guaranteed.
| brightball wrote:
| I can't speak to Ford, but last year we order a Chrysler
| Pacifica plug-in hybrid direct from Chrysler, shipped to the
| dealer for pickup and we had no issues with dealership upsell.
| It was exactly what it said we were getting. We love it too.
| Probably put gas in every 2-3 months if we don't go out of
| town.
| spaceisballer wrote:
| Do you like the vehicle? We have a Town and Country and while
| I'm not a fan of the minivan life it's just so damn practical
| with kids. The Pacifica seems more car like than our Town and
| Country (seems like it sits lower, maybe handles better).
| Looking into options, we use the Model 3 almost all the time
| but sometimes you need the extra luggage space or just
| ability to sit a little further away (separate the kids).
| brightball wrote:
| We love it. Have a 2020 and the plugin hybrid approach is
| similar to the Chevy Volt where the first 35 miles you
| drive everyday is all electric. For us, even driving into
| the next town everyday, that covers us.
|
| The vehicle is great. Bells and whistles are solid. Really
| the only downside to it is that the battery sits in the
| space where you would have been able to fold down the
| middle row of seats. Instead, if you need to get the middle
| seats out of the way, you have to remove them and they are
| a little heavier than I expected.
|
| Still though, the practicality can't be beat. When you fold
| down the back and remove the middle seats it's almost like
| having a covered pickup truck with as much as you can fit
| in there.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Well, except for the LR reservation holders who were lead on
| and on that their vehicles were "about to enter production"...
| only to find it canceled, their place in the system lost, and
| Tesla barely able to say sorry, let alone offer an alternative.
|
| > More recently, Tesla has hit some reservation holders with
| modest price increases, but not at over 50% of the base price
| of the vehicle like we're seeing here.
|
| You mean _three_ price increases in 2021 alone that have bumped
| some Model 3 prices by about 30%? I'm not sure how "modest" an
| increase that is.
| jsight wrote:
| Those price increases didn't affect the reservation holders
| that the person you are replying to was talking about.
| md2020 wrote:
| I agree that Tesla isn't immune to the same mechanics of
| supply and demand that make dealerships do these markups, but
| I think it's important to note that Tesla honors the price of
| the car from the time you _placed the order_. I ordered a
| Model 3 in October and the price of the car has increased
| since I placed that order, but I'll still be paying the
| original price when I take delivery. I see that as a positive
| over what this article is saying, which is that the
| dealership hit reservation holders with a sudden markup,
| which probably wouldn't have happened without the dealership
| as a middleman between Ford and the buyers.
| andygrove wrote:
| FWIW, my dealer is not adding any markup. Here is the email I
| received from them explaining the process:
|
| "We finally received an update from Ford regarding the Lightning!
| This will be a completely unique process from Ford and they will
| send a detailed guideline in January, however I wanted to let you
| know in advance that things are in motion.
|
| This process is going to be based on invitation to convert as
| demand has outweighed production capability by far. Due to
| demand, not all reservation holders will recieve an invitation to
| place an order for a 2022 model year. Ford will begin inviting
| reservation holders to place orders in waves starting in January.
| Subsequent waves will receive an invitation in two-week intervals
| until 2022 model year capacity is reached. Invitations are based
| on reservation timing, and our estimated allocation. You will be
| directed to an online configurator (Build and Price tool) where
| you will then be able to spec out your order and then submit your
| finalized order. At that time, we will provide you with complete
| pricing including MSRP, taxes, and dealer handling fee. We are
| not charging any dealer markup above MSRP. Once the 22MY
| production capacity is met, all remaining reservation holders
| will be notified that their next ordering opportunity will be for
| the next model year."
| sk5t wrote:
| > dealer handling fee
|
| Still a bit ominous.
| chihuahua wrote:
| "No dealer markup above MSRP", but the dealer _handling fee_
| could be $25,000 ...
| rossjudson wrote:
| Sounds like you have a local dealer that's transparent and
| (relatively!) honest. From other posts it seems that Ford can't
| necessarily set the prices that the dealers charge...but what
| they _can_ do is let dealers know that their allocations are at
| risk. In other words -- Ford can separately survey invitation
| receivers and find out what prices they pay. Excessive markups
| can be used to reduce allocations to dealers.
| jdhn wrote:
| I wonder how Ford will combat this. I know they're limited as to
| what they can do due to state laws, but from what I've seen
| they're not a fan of high markups.
| maxerickson wrote:
| They are probably reaching out to their media contacts
| encouraging them to write articles about dealers marking up the
| prices.
| travisporter wrote:
| When I was looking a Honda Accord a couple decades ago I walked
| into a dealer who was asking 3000 above MSRP in an Atlanta
| suburb. I asked him are you serious, dude didn't even flinch and
| said bye as I walked out. I got the same car at MSRP with leather
| seats thrown in about 20 miles out of the city.
| ourmandave wrote:
| _...at least one Ford dealership [...] informed them that an
| additional price adjustment of US$30,000 would be necessary in
| order to receive a unit from the first batches of Ford 's new
| electric truck.
|
| An additional non-refundable US$5,000 deposit is apparently also
| required to place an order for the electric pickup truck._
|
| At ONE dealership, if you want a first batch its +$30K. If you
| wait, it isn't.
|
| If you want to reserve one now it's $5000 down. That's not extra
| and you don't lose it if you take delivery.
|
| I'm not a Ford fanboy, just saying.
|
| And I wouldn't buy (let alone pay extra for) _any_ first gen
| vehicle.
| mulmen wrote:
| > And I wouldn't buy (let alone pay extra for) any first gen
| vehicle.
|
| I generally agree with this. I'm curious where you draw the
| line though. This isn't Ford's first EV and other manufacturers
| have been building them for _years_. At what point should we
| acknowledge this is as a mature technology? I wouldn 't
| hesitate to buy a car with a new ICE, what will it take for EVs
| to reach the same level of trust?
| artificial wrote:
| Every so many years a new platform arrives. The generations
| built upon it iterate. The later iterations address issues
| and are considered superior. "The window seal on the driver
| side no longer potentially develops a leak, the headlight
| daytime running LED burnt out due to poor semiconductor fab
| you can see the new part number, the entertainment system
| revamped to support carplay" etc.
|
| The down side is once they're mature the body style changes
| and the cycle repeats.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I didn't read GP's comment as particular in any way to EVs.
| I'm not generally in the market for new cars (terrible
| value), but to the extent I consider them, I'd much rather
| buy a second-generation (or minimum, second model year) than
| a first-off car.
| mulmen wrote:
| What do you mean by "generation" though? Take the Camry for
| example, that is a "new" car every ~8(?) years. That can't
| be what you mean by "generation" so I assume you just mean
| "a few years after release"?
| sokoloff wrote:
| Anytime there's a significant refresh of the model (when
| the Mustang got the Coyote motor, Corolla switched from
| rear to front drive, etc), I'd avoid the first year of
| that generation as well, but I'd particularly avoid the
| first year of a first-gen car.
|
| My post above could have been much more clear. For a body
| refresh with an already proven engine/trans combination,
| I wouldn't be as concerned (which is what I was trying to
| get at, albeit clumsily).
| mholm wrote:
| Not the commenter, but first gen vehicles have a particularly
| bad history of unreliability, even in ICEs. Later incremental
| model years tend to be the more reliable version of the car
| by a noticeable amount.
| mulmen wrote:
| Ah I think I misunderstood. My most recent purchase was a
| mid-lifecycle refresh of an existing model, I guess that is
| what GP meant.
| halpert wrote:
| This kind of highlights a flaw in the dealership model,
| however. Ford took the reservation money and made a promise
| that they're unable to fulfill to the reservation holder.
| seastonATccs wrote:
| They know how to take the reservation, but the don't know how
| to hold the reservation. The holding part really is the
| important part.
| lavezza wrote:
| Unexpected Seinfeld
| mxuribe wrote:
| Not sure if you were making a Seinfeld reference there.
| Kudos if so...And if not, here's what I'm referring to:
| https://youtu.be/4T2GmGSNvaM?t=35
|
| :-)
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Ford ought to let customers place reservations and shop
| around which dealership they want to purchase though at
| delivery time.
|
| If the dealership tells me "It's $30,000 markup or we're
| taking your built-to-order vehicle and selling it to someone
| else" then I should be able to take that reservation and move
| my order to a different dealer.
|
| Or maybe they could require the dealer to sign a contract on
| the final out the door price in order to submit an order.
| brianwawok wrote:
| No, they should backstop direct to consumer.
|
| Buy a car for 45k? Sure, dealer can deliver it at any
| markup you want. But, we will also drop it off at your
| house for exactly 45k. So not much room..
| VWWHFSfQ wrote:
| why are people caring about this. go to a different dealer or
| wait 5 minutes if you want to buy it at msrp
| cinntaile wrote:
| That's not gonna help, they're all sold out. It's part of a
| new crypto consensus algorithm called Proof of Transport
| (PoT). You need a mean truck to get the most rewards.
| seattle_spring wrote:
| I doubt either of those strategies will yield results. The
| RAV4 Prime and Ford Focus RS are 2 examples of many of cars
| that pretty much were never available for MSRP except from a
| select few dealerships. I'm sure a couple people will respond
| and say, "wait but I got a Prime at MSRP so that invalidates
| your comment!" Nope, they just got lucky or were OK calling
| 20 dealerships to find one that wasn't OK ripping their
| customers off.
| therealdrag0 wrote:
| Is it a rip off? Supply and demand. Charging more
| incentivized more production. Which we desperately need.
| detaro wrote:
| How is dealers adding additional markup to the MSRP
| helping improve supply?
| Gelob wrote:
| It's really hard to get any new car right now at MSRP and the
| dealers that let you place a deposit may pull it from under
| you if someone is willing to pay more
| sithlord wrote:
| The bigger problem is that it appears that the dealerships have
| just done a big bait and switch, customers already preordered and
| if my research was correct - they basically said F* you to the
| customers that already pre ordered and said if you want it now -
| you have to pay more - or you lose your deposit.
|
| this video sums it up:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pil6tB6MPws
| chmod775 wrote:
| > or you lose your deposit
|
| Calling that a deposit is stretching the definition - you're
| just paying a fee to skip ahead in line: a reservation. Suppose
| though it actually was a partial, non-refundable, advance
| payment of a yet-to-be-determined sum. Who in their right mind
| would sign such a contract? Those people should find someone
| else to manage their money for them ASAP.
| darknavi wrote:
| > The bigger problem is dealerships
|
| FTFY
| brightball wrote:
| Aka - Sales Unions
| adventured wrote:
| The dealerships are more like a cartel because they're
| focused on keeping the cost of the product artificially
| inflated enough that they can scam their margin from
| inbetween the customer and the producer. Unions focus on
| keeping wages higher than they otherwise would be.
|
| For example health insurance companies in the US fall into
| the same cartel category as automobile dealerships. They
| scam their margin / mark-up sitting - often with regulatory
| protection - inbetween the patient and the care provider
| (hospital etc) or producer (pharma company, device maker
| etc).
| brightball wrote:
| Dealership groups push for the regulations that force
| producers to use them. Tesla has had to fight hard to
| avoid the dealership model because of it.
| akvadrako wrote:
| That would simply not be legal. As a sibling comment mentioned,
| it may not have been structured financially as a deposit.
| emptybottle wrote:
| I hope that Ford is able to build an EV that runs reliably well
| beyond the warranty period.
|
| The F series are popular trucks, and it would be great to see
| more EV adoption from truck drivers.
|
| I think that will be heavily influenced by either a) reliability
| or b) accessible repairs with cheap parts.
|
| Ford's fuel trucks have essentially both today, but a botched EV
| rollout could leave customers with neither and price hikes aren't
| a great sign.
| foobiekr wrote:
| If the cellular automata theory of class and status
| differentiation is true, electric vehicles are about to lose
| their cache. It will be interesting to observe.
| dqpb wrote:
| What do you mean?
| Maarten88 wrote:
| So this year they'll build around 700.000 normal F-150 trucks and
| only 15.000 electric ones, when they could sell many times more.
|
| It seems they are out of touch with the market.
|
| That may be understandable, as it is a bit nonsensical. 90% of
| the people who buy these trucks buy them as a status symbol: they
| are wasting resources, energy and emissions to signal they are
| active/outdoor types while driving to work and the mall. I read
| trucks do not count as part of manufacturer fuel efficiency
| targets, which is why they started marketing them to consumers in
| the first place. Buying an electric version of this still seems
| quite wasteful.
|
| I hope people will think again and buy something right-sized.
| abawany wrote:
| Ford also released the hybrid Maverick with a starting price of
| 20k usd, which is much more right sized and extremely
| practical. It is attracting a lot of non traditional buyers who
| would likely never have considered the monstrosities that pass
| as 'full sized' nowadays.
| therealdrag0 wrote:
| Wow. 37 combined mpg, that's great for a truck. Starting at
| 20k??? How...
| abawany wrote:
| I found this review by Demuro to be useful:
| https://youtu.be/ocHFC03Wmbw - it outlines the compromises
| they made, such as using the tried-and-true components from
| the Escape, focusing on function over shiny form, and
| making a well thought out design. I've priced one for
| myself a few times and the full msrp including destination
| charge was under 24k usd after the options that I added.
| The only reason I haven't ordered one yet is because of the
| nasty experience at dealers though there is at least one
| dealer in Iowa that is selling it for under invoice
| pricing, provided I fly there and drive it back.
| hourislate wrote:
| I can understand someone who needs a work truck but most of these
| trucks will be Vanity purchases, used to drive to Walmart or
| Chickfilet. Ford needs to mark it up across the board and any
| lost sales will be offset by large profit margins. Anyone buying
| a vehicle like this should be able to eat an additional 30-60k in
| markups.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
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