[HN Gopher] Baffling neurological illness affects growing number...
___________________________________________________________________
Baffling neurological illness affects growing number of young
adults
Author : Anilm3
Score : 224 points
Date : 2022-01-02 11:43 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| gfykvfyxgc wrote:
| Seems obviously BMAA but clearly the government don't want to say
| so because it will destroy the lobster industry.
|
| We should all be terrified of BMAA and it's here because of
| climate change.
|
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190124110834.h...
|
| Climate change is making the oceans and fresh water toxic and
| very deadly. We've seriously fucked the earth.
|
| Have you ever heard weasel words more reminiscent of a cover up:
|
| " But experts nonetheless warn that testing itself is also more
| difficult than the public realizes.
|
| While some medical tests can provide quick and definite results
| other types of investigation require far more work.
|
| "What people are talking about really amounts to a full research
| investigation, because then we know what we're looking for
| precisely," said the federal scientist who was familiar with both
| the cluster and the testing process. "Right now we don't have a
| way to interpret simple data that you might get when testing a
| person's brain tissue for a particular toxin. For example, how
| much are 'elevated' levels of a neurotoxin compared to the rest
| of the public? And when does that become a cause for concern?"
|
| The scientist said teams are ready to begin the research, but
| "New Brunswick has specifically told us not to go forward with
| that work"."
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| This compound was new to me. Here's more info on it.
|
| https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6651/10/2/83/htm
|
| Seems to accumulate in bivalves and crustaceans but not fish.
| ratsmack wrote:
| More info from 2012 on the NIH site:
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3295368/
|
| This has been known for quite a while.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| Not nitpicking but to clarify a bit, that study says
|
| "Such blooms are a regular feature of Australian inland
| waterways and are increasing due to nutrient run-off, reduced
| river flows and climate change."
|
| So while climate change (i.e., warming in targeted areas)
| doesn't help, it's more of the final nail in a series of nails
| we've been driving into Mother Nature's heart.
|
| The idea we could be so negligent and abusive of our own home
| without repercussions is a great narrative for profits, but not
| so good for our home.
| [deleted]
| frogger8 wrote:
| Thanks for this clarification.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| The leading cause of toxic algae blooms like this is nutrient
| runoff.
|
| The leading cause of nutrient runoff is over-fertilization of
| industrialized farmland.
|
| I've never heard of climate change associated with these
| until now, but I've only worked tangentially with these
| phenomenon, and am not an expert.
| specialist wrote:
| Compounding factors.
| drjasonharrison wrote:
| You also get algae blooms when the water is warmer, because
| algae grow faster in warmer water. This leads to less
| oxygen in the water and less mixing of water layers. Warmer
| water bodies often occur during drought and that often
| means more artificial irrigation...
| https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollution/climate-change-and-
| har...
| [deleted]
| paganel wrote:
| > runoff is over-fertilization of industrialized farmland.
|
| And I'd say that the leading cause of that is the increase
| of world population which necessitates the "industrialized
| farmland". In other words there's always a balance between
| more people on this planet vs more wild-life.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| partially. Over fertilization, which causes nutrient
| runoff (by definition wasteful and not cost effective) is
| not required to grow the amount of food that we grow.
|
| Targeted fertilization or erosion control can both
| mitigate it by reducing waste, saving money and reducing
| occurance of side effects at the expense of a reduction
| fertilizer sales worldwide.
|
| Tech can help here. See precision agriculture and other
| related topics
| WalterBright wrote:
| > a great narrative for profits
|
| Pollution from Soviet collective farms isn't any better.
| lostlogin wrote:
| Does that not still boil down to profits? Political,
| financial or something else the system demanded?
| nate_meurer wrote:
| No, "something the system demands" is not a useful
| definition of anything. "The system" demands people have
| food to eat. Survival is not profit in any meaningful
| sense.
|
| The parent used the term _profits_ to distinguish free-
| market and state-controlled activities, and to assert
| that state-controlled food production has historically
| been just as environmentally damaging.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Consider what I was replying to, which laid pollution at
| the doorstep of profits.
| relax88 wrote:
| Seems more likely the old mines in the area are causing the
| contamination with BMAA and that it is being consumed in
| shellfish. BMAA contamination is often associated with old
| flooded mine shafts, and there are several in the area where
| these people are getting sick, most of them upstream.
|
| Not sure why you're assuming this has anything to do with
| climate change. What could be the link there?
| andrewclunn wrote:
| I do wish that "climate change" was not lumped into every
| environmental concern. For example, if painting one of the
| blades black on a windmill means the birds don't fly into it
| and die, then let's do it! Connecting it to a larger climate
| battle in order to win that war ("See wind power doesn't have
| that downside anymore, so more wind power to fight climate
| change") only gets in the way of solving the immediate
| problem.
| fao_ wrote:
| > Connecting it to a larger climate battle in order to win
| that war ("See wind power doesn't have that downside
| anymore, so more wind power to fight climate change") only
| gets in the way of solving the immediate problem.
|
| Personally I feel that splitting up interests that are
| _inherently_ to do with climate change and ecology into
| individual issues is detrimental. However, you 're probably
| right that capitalism is inefficient and utterly
| ineffective at large scale projects, and that splitting
| everything into isolated issues that cannot be seen to lead
| to anything bigger is a more "efficient" way to solve the
| general problem under capitalism, sure.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| This is not artificially splitting anything up.
|
| Mines contamination has no relation at all with climate
| change. Birds death due to impact with windmills have
| nothing to do with climate change.
|
| It's lumping those things up that is artificial. And if
| you add noise to your goal, don't be surprised when
| people start to question if your actions actually lead to
| your stated goals or if you have a hidden agenda...
| because you do have a hidden agenda. It's hidden because
| of bad communication, but people can't tell the
| difference.
| boppo1 wrote:
| The guy you're talking to views the world through a lens
| of 'capitalism vs [utopian vision]', capitalism being
| everything wrong with status-quo economics. Don't waste
| your time suggesting practicalities.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| Cyanobacteria blooms are a cause of BMAA accumulation, and
| are very much linked to global warming.
|
| Solving the immediate problem is nice but knowing about the
| root cause is absolutely important.
| maxbond wrote:
| I'd point out that the mechanism you're proposing is itself
| an anthropogenic change in the environment. We've altered
| more than just the atmosphere of this planet. Their overall
| point, "we've effed this planet, and I believe that's caused
| this specific problem," would still hold, whether or not they
| were sufficiently precise with their language.
|
| The ways we've "effed" the planet are so numerous and
| interconnected that it makes sense, at least to me, to lump
| them together into an umbrella term everyone is familiar
| with. There is no clean separation between our mining
| practices and what has happened to the water and what has
| happened to the atmosphere - they are intimately related.
| ljf wrote:
| Previous reporting on the issue;
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/mystery-brain-...
|
| 'Forever Chemicals' are known to get concentrated in shellfish -
| I wonder if that is an issue?
|
| I'd love to see the comparative numbers of similar cases in other
| environments - this seems very high but I have no idea what the
| baseline for this sort of thing is.
|
| As someone that grew up with the spector of 'mad cow disease'
| (bse/cjd) in the UK, it is horrible to think about the affects in
| these people and their families. The fact that care givers are
| also falling ill is very interesting and concerning.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| You really should never eat shellfish from unknown sources,
| because these are either from unsustainable farms pumped full
| with chemicals to keep diseases in check or from the sea.
| Either way, very dirty food in more than one way. If you really
| gotta eat shellfish, get it from local closed-cycle industrial
| farms. That's of course more expensive, because you're paying
| for what you're getting.
| GordonS wrote:
| As someone that did a lot of research into aquaculture for
| work a couple of years back, I'm now _very_ picky about where
| I get fish, whether finfish or shellfish.
|
| Safety, processes, practices and quality vary wildly by
| region and farm.
| mrosett wrote:
| Do you have any high level suggestions?
| GordonS wrote:
| I'm in Scotland, and in general I'll select wild fish
| from Scottish waters or farmed fish from Norway, as the
| Norwegians have very good standards.
|
| I'll also swerve fish (such as salmon) from Chile, as
| standards are relatively low there - for example, they
| permit a much higher sea lice count than anywhere in
| Europe.
|
| For shellfish, I prefer wild Scottish sources, but
| Scottish farmed is OK too. I'd swerve shellfish
| (typically prawns) from Bangladesh, as despite farming
| often being done in a small scale, standards can be low.
| MandieD wrote:
| Farmed salmon from Norway is the main kind available at
| fish counters in German supermarkets, so that's good to
| hear.
| halpert wrote:
| I was pretty impressed with Maine's lobster catch
| regulations. Most notably, the license holder has to be the
| one to physically pull up the traps, which puts a very small
| upper bound on how big a single lobster catching operation
| can be. They also have catch regulations to keep the practice
| sustainable, which makes sense given that it's a large part
| of their economy.
| donkarma wrote:
| Pretty scary, can't wait to read the book on it in 10 years.
| sh4un wrote:
| Netflix docudrama.
| graderjs wrote:
| Unless this new pathogen is the pandemic that takes us to the
| brink of extinction.
|
| New contagious prions? Bacteria that generate prions? Viruses
| that code for prions?
| sh4un wrote:
| Canadian healthcare is scary, and it's made worse by these
| politicians that always go to the US for care.
|
| The joke is that it's gotten so progressive that no one gets
| better, we all have to equally suffer. You can see clearly how
| this situation was mishandled.
| rdtennent wrote:
| Canadians are generally very satisfied with the quality and
| availability of healthcare in Canada. The issue in this case is
| not the quality of care but the possibility that the provincial
| government is suppressing testing that might reveal that a
| naturally-produced neurotoxin has contaminated bottom-feeding
| crustaceans such as lobster.
| boringg wrote:
| Canadian healthcare is great if you have a life threatening
| acute problem or you have no ability to or willingness to pay
| for healthcare. If you have anything in the middle its a
| giant slog against a large bureaucracy to actually get it
| treated. And you have ti have some conviction in what it is
| otherwise diagnose and adios as they say.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| > Canadians are generally very satisfied with the quality and
| availability of healthcare in Canada.
|
| If any of us are it's because of the pervasive anti-American
| propaganda spewn about.
|
| My GF is from the Czech Republic (where we currently are) and
| since we got here she's been getting all her standard check
| ups done. Here she can make an appointment only a day in
| advance (as opposed to weeks or months out in Canada),
| there's no wait time (in Canada you usually wait even with an
| appointment) and dental/drugs are included in Czech Republic
| (in Canada only the most basic care is included, everything
| else is extra and quite expensive).
|
| Czech Republic is seen as a second-rate EU country (at least
| what I've heard of it) but health care here is so far ahead
| of Canada we might as well be a third world country.
|
| Edit - I should add, even before observing European health
| care, I knew a shocking amount of people who've gone to the
| US and even Mexico specifically for medical treatment.
| Canada's health care is abysmal, our politicians just
| convince everyone that everything is OK because it's "free"
| (never mind that we pay European-level taxes for far worse
| care).
|
| Also, I come from the richest (per capita) Canadian province
| with the best health-care funding, which in my experience is
| the best in Canada, but still lacking...
| hluska wrote:
| I'm Canadian and am extremely happy with the state of
| healthcare. It has nothing to do with propaganda but
| personal experience.
|
| Please don't claim to speak for me. Your view does not
| match the typical Canadian's.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| How often do you, personally, use healthcare? I was fine
| with it too because I'm a very healthy man (let's face
| it, men don't use health care as much as women for
| obvious biological reasons) in my 30's. The fact it's so
| shit doesn't affect me, personally.
|
| But it's objectively bad when compared to every country
| at our level of income, and bad when compared to most
| first-world countries. We pay more and receive less. My
| girlfriend is pregnant (part of the reason for all her
| medical appointments) and legitimately doesn't want to
| move back to Canada (where we met) because of the state
| of health care (and education, and infrastructure, and
| housing costs, but healthcare is a big one with a child
| on the way).
|
| Edit - in a comment to another person you're saying
| you're OK with things being postponed in Canada because
| it's a pandemic. Nothing is postponed or shut down
| here... We've been getting appointments just fine.
| Literally made my point.
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| I'm Canadian and since living abroad I can only say how
| impressed I am with health care systems OTHER than
| Canada's. Getting a specialist appointment in Canada can
| take weeks to months and even then the specialist barely
| has time for you.
|
| I have friends from Europe who (now) have dual
| citizenship and fly back to their country of origin for
| anything beyond a basic checkup.
|
| In Asia I go to the hospital and I get all the results in
| a folder and can review them myself. There are no hidden
| mysteries like in Canada -- what are they hiding in
| Canada? I've asked for a copy of my medical file and
| they've looked me like I'm a lunatic!
|
| In Canada:
|
| "So when do I get my test results?"
|
| "We'll call you if there is a problem."
|
| No joke!
|
| In Quebec I always have to pay $500 a year for medical --
| I guarantee you I can get A+ coverage for that amount of
| money in any SEA country. So it's definitely not "free".
|
| Canadian health care is most certainly a better financial
| deal than the US system if stories are to be believed.
| But it's most certainly not the best world wide.
| mk81 wrote:
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Czech here. In theory, our healthcare system _should_ work
| the way you described. In practice, a shortage of doctors
| is developing in less lucrative regions. You will always
| have good service in Prague or Brno, but elsewhere, you may
| run into problems.
|
| This article shows a hundred-strong queue of patients
| waiting to register to a newly opened dentist office. Some
| of them waited overnight.
|
| https://www.idnes.cz/ostrava/zpravy/lhotka-ostrava-fronta-
| zu...
|
| Mind you, this is Ostrava, the third largest city in the
| country.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Fair enough. We're in Karlovy Vary region and everything
| has seemed very efficient.
|
| One thing I have noticed is that Czechs are very critical
| of their country, which to my eyes seems to function
| quite well, for what it's worth.
|
| Canadians put up with far worse and yet will defend it.
| Also, our whole country has a doctor shortage. No sane
| doctor stays in Canada when the US pays multiples more...
| inglor_cz wrote:
| There is definitely a tendency towards some self-
| flagellation in CZ, though I think this is vastly more
| widespread elsewhere (just witness the ritual meltdowns
| in English language media whenever some election does not
| turn out perfectly "right").
|
| I like to think I am pretty resistant to that. So, some
| earned praise: Czechia is a very safe country which was
| able to get some things work better than many others (we
| even have a functioning gun culture without too much
| machismo or regular bloodsheds - the compulsory safety
| and legal tests are a good filter against crazies). Our
| healthcare is fairly decent, though necessarily limited
| by the overall economic level, which is, by the standards
| of Western Europe, second tier.
|
| What is really f_cked up is the real estate market. Our
| construction permit bureaucracy would make the Byzantine
| courts blush, a normal block of flats may spend a decade
| in permission limbo before the first shovel touches the
| ground. As a result, prices have gone absolutely mad in
| the last few years, especially in Prague.
|
| (Meanwhile, similarly sized Polish capital Warsaw built
| 100 000 apartments in five years or so and housing is
| much more affordable there as a consequence.)
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| > What is really f_cked up is the real estate market.
|
| Cries in Canadian...
|
| https://www.visualcapitalist.com/least-affordable-cities-
| to-...
| lostlogin wrote:
| New Zealand and Australia have really pushed on since
| that was published. It's 12-15x median wage here in
| Auckland now. Depressing.
|
| https://www.interest.co.nz/property/house-price-income-
| multi...
| jerezzprime wrote:
| > Canadians are generally very satisfied with the quality and
| availability of healthcare.
|
| I'd love to see the list of people you surveyed to draw this
| conclusion. In my metropolitan area availability is abysmal
| and (in my experience recently) quality is not great. I am
| contrasting this to my recent experiences in the US system.
| hluska wrote:
| I notice you said recently. Keep in mind that we're in a
| pandemic and elective procedures/many types of testing have
| been postponed. That's because it's a pandemic. I'm not so
| selfish to expect healthcare workers to work 24/7.
| spanktheuser wrote:
| That makes some sense - US healthcare is great if you are
| wealthy and barely existent if you are not. Canada strikes
| me as middle of the road - moderate quality for nearly
| everyone.
|
| If you are one of the lucky 10% at the top of the heap US
| healthcare will outperform.
| twofornone wrote:
| Nonsense. Middle class employment comes with health
| insurance that makes healthcare generally affordable,
| barring stories about catastrophic bankrupting illnesses
| that are actually rare.
|
| Edit: what, am I out of touch? Is health insurance only
| provided to employees in the top 10%?
| mech422 wrote:
| >>healthcare generally affordable, barring stories about
| catastrophic bankrupting illnesses
|
| I think you're being down voted for the 'generally
| affordable' and 'bankrupting illnesses' parts. "Middle
| class" doesn't usually equate to tech level salaries or
| benefits. Family health insurance can be very expensive
| for middle class families. The extremely high family out-
| of-pocket max plans can turn even non-catastrophic
| illnesses into a financial crisis.
| southerntofu wrote:
| > The joke is that it's gotten so progressive that no one gets
| better
|
| I don't think that's the reason. Public health systems in
| Canada/France/Belgium have (had?) a very good reputation
| because they were in fact really good until the neoliberal turn
| on the 80s/90s. When you have health workers running the show
| with a fair budget, wait times are low and results are good,
| and everyone is happy. Now introduce some managerial feudalism
| (see David Greaber's talk at CCC last year) and micro-
| management/benchmarking and things start to degrade.
|
| Add to this mix that big corporations don't pay their dues and
| the government keeps reducing budgets and pretending they don't
| know why there's no more money flowing in and suddenly you've
| got health crisis on a wide scale and most people you know
| working in hospitals are depressive, either quitting or on the
| verge of suicide due to contradicting objectives: they want to
| help people but they're not given the means to do so. Social
| dues fraud is dozens of billions of euros every year in France,
| it's well-known and well-flagged and no government wants to do
| something about it.
|
| If you're working in IT, think about it this way: management is
| benchmarking how many functions you write per day and does not
| care about the state of things as a whole. You are incentivized
| not to produce tests (which would indicate failure from your
| team specifically) but rather to ship away at once. Are you
| gonna produce good code?
|
| EDIT: I should make it clear when i talk about social dues
| fraud, i don't mean individuals gaming the system to gain funds
| they're not owed (which is < 1% of fraud), and i'm not talking
| about small companies not paying their dues (the State is
| really good at harassing those until money flows in), i'm
| talking about CAC40 corporations who make billions of profit
| every year. They are the ones responsible for the social
| security hole ("trou de la secu") and that's public knowledge.
| nightowl_games wrote:
| Just chiming in here as a Canadian to express my immense
| satisfaction with our public health care. I just got an
| appointment for a minor issue in less than 24 hours. We
| recently had a baby and got top shelf care at a new hospital,
| better than the San Diego hospital my friend just had a baby
| at. All of it was free. Except the parking. Friggen' parking,
| amirite.
|
| This case clearly has basically nothing to do with public
| 'health care' this is clearly political and health research
| related.
| fartcannon wrote:
| Still living 3 years longer then the Americans.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Closer to 4 now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coun
| tries_by_life_ex...
| christophilus wrote:
| American obesity may be the explanation here.
| tragictrash wrote:
| It's not obesity alone. All of our food contains an
| excessive amount of salt.
| joecool1029 wrote:
| Japan does just fine with a higher salt consumption than
| the US and has the highest life expectancy in the world.
| nobodyandproud wrote:
| Isn't the implication obesity + high salt content?
| elevenoh wrote:
| Canadian healthcare is indeed in rough shape.
|
| Our health outcomes have plateaued, wait times increased and
| costs rocketed.
|
| The inevitable nature of uncompetitive systems.
| southerntofu wrote:
| > The inevitable nature of uncompetitive systems.
|
| This is highly misinformed. The problem is precisely the
| introduction of competitiveness in a system which previously
| worked well. This is for example explained in Adam Curtis'
| documentary The Trap Part 2 [0] which you may find online in
| many places.
|
| [0]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(British_TV_series)
| vsareto wrote:
| >Our health outcomes have plateaued
|
| Healthcare is messy. That plateau might be the best we can
| accomplish given our current technology, science, healthcare,
| politics, and culture. It's not necessarily a measurement
| that always has to go up (like USA stocks).
|
| If you want to put this on non-competitive systems, the USA
| has a competitive system and it is probably worse than
| Canada. If not completely worse, then certainly worse on
| major dimensions like cost and accessibility.
|
| I'd be interested in what these health outcomes measured if
| you have a link handy.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| Unlike here in the US where we have a mostly private health
| care system.
|
| Our health outcomes are actually dropping, wait times are
| bad, and costs are the highest in the world.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Contagious dementia? What a terrifying article.
| julz_hk wrote:
| I'm surprised that Chronic Wasting Disease (a prion disease
| similar to CJD or BSE but found in wild and farmed deer, moose
| etc) isn't mentioned. A quick search however brings up this
| article linking prion disease, sewage sludge pollution and these
| cases.
|
| https://www.cp24.com/news/ask-questions-but-don-t-panic-abou...
| halpert wrote:
| This was previously discussed on HN:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979532
|
| The linked article is about how NB went out of their way to shut
| out federal investigators. If it's environmental, it's possible
| the NB government is trying to cover it up.
|
| This is also briefly touched on in this article:
|
| > The scientist said teams are ready to begin the research, but
| "New Brunswick has specifically told us not to go forward with
| that work".
| wayoutthere wrote:
| This should be unsurprising. Governments consistently represent
| business interests over the well-being of their population. As
| a result the right is already running on populism and the left
| is not far behind with all the labor organizing that's
| happening. We're in for a wild ride over the next decade.
| spanktheuser wrote:
| I'm not sure I disagree with your broader point, but I don't
| understand how labor organizing equates with right-wing
| populism. To me greater efforts at unionization are simply a
| rational economic response. What am I missing?
| wayoutthere wrote:
| Labor organizing is largely being driven by left-wing
| populism in the face of unrelenting corporate ghoulishness
| from the Democratic Party. Once the right went hard
| populist it became the meta because business interests fled
| to the other side and pissed them off too. And
| historically, high levels of populism in politics usually
| ends up in authoritarianism. I'm actually very sympathetic
| to left wing populist positions; but at the same time it's
| very easy for charlatans to prey on.
| imglorp wrote:
| That signals a splendid research candidate.
| yeetaccount4 wrote:
| ...for a large legal firm. The science would be interesting
| too.
| tomohawk wrote:
| Interesting what happens when doctors no longer work for you, but
| can only work for the government monopoly.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| Private clinics and practices exist in large numbers in Canada.
| Apparently, they aren't interested in helping.
| aaomidi wrote:
| This is an annoying indirection in this discussion.
|
| Doctors working for everyone also means they work for the
| highest bidder. Remember the tabaco industry in the US and the
| doctors literally advertising it?
|
| How about doctors near areas of chemical spills getting
| $PSEURY= from the companies to keep quiet about them?
|
| How about the opioid crisis that has killed thousands of
| Americans?
|
| Yeah. So, if you want to bring up a misleading example, at
| least think of the entire cycle of the "other side" of this.
|
| At the end of the day the thing is "interesting what happens
| when doctors are incentivized with capital and success is
| measured by how rich you are"
| sudosysgen wrote:
| You're right, and the worst is that private clinics and
| practices are allowed in Canada, and they have no interest in
| getting involved with this.
| hluska wrote:
| This is only news because doctors resist. They're doing great.
| avl999 wrote:
| It looks like the province of New Brunswick is pursuing the
| "Don't Look Up" strategy in dealing with this.
|
| The federal government should step in and force the province's
| hand on investigating this.
| elzbardico wrote:
| We must be very, very careful before assuming that the government
| and health authorities are lying here. The guardian usually goes
| for "the worst case scenario" and it is easy to see all kinds of
| causal relationships in a series of anecdotes when our fear
| response is triggered.
| 0x_rs wrote:
| >The 3 referring physicians in New Brunswick engaged the Public
| Health Agency of Canada's Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease Surveillance
| System (CJDSS) to actively investigate the possibility of human
| prion disease, but to date, all test results have been negative
| for known forms of human prion disease.
|
| https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/ocmoh/cdc/neu...
|
| So it does not seem to be prions, despite the similarities.
| lazide wrote:
| Which at least is good - be aware Prions are very hard to
| detect or categorize (and most forms of infectious prions seem
| incredibly hard to destroy). We don't have a generic 'prion'
| test, and there is a non-zero chance of a different type we
| haven't categorized yet.
|
| Until relatively recently they were considered some kind of
| 'wake up sweating and dismiss the nightmare as just fantasy'
| type cause that should be dismissed by rational people, though
| there were a number of serious known diseases that no virus or
| bacteria could be shown identified as causing.
|
| Not actually knowing what causes a disease is a lot more common
| than people think though, including for a number of relatively
| common diseases.
|
| The ones we've shown a prior cause for had a big question mark
| next to them despite concerted effort. They were also generally
| in either remote populations that were practicing some taboo
| things (human cannibalism), a few families, or in animals
| (scrapie), and clearly fatal.
|
| In the mid 60's it was becoming apparent these diseases were
| not likely caused by the most common theory of a 'slow virus'
| or any known bacteria, as even biological sterilizing agents,
| viral killing agents, hard UV, and high levels of ionizing
| radiation didn't stop samples from being infectious, and
| searches to find the actual cause started looking for more
| novel sources, despite a lot of skepticism.
|
| The term prion, after decades of research, was only coined in
| '82, and only generally accepted as the actual source of the
| disease (instead of a red herring for a disease caused by a
| not-yet-isolate virus) in the late 90's to early 2000's. One of
| the most prolific researchers on the topic got a Nobel prize
| for his work proving they exist - but only in 2017.
|
| A brief history
| [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4626585/]
|
| So not likely, but until another cause can be isolated, best to
| not fully rule it out either, even if it is negative for all
| known prions.
|
| With how good many of our tests actually are, it's easy to
| overweight their accuracy in categorizing unknown phenomenon.
| Somewhat of a CSI type effect.
| nieve wrote:
| I'm not sure "known" is very comforting when we have no reason
| to believe that we have a complete inventory of all possible
| prion diseases in humans.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> But in January, the province of New Brunswick is widely
| expected to announce that the cluster of cases, first made public
| last year after a memo was leaked to the media, is the result of
| misdiagnoses, which have mistakenly grouped unrelated illnesses
| together.
|
| If they want to say that, I think they are obligated to also
| provide the correct diagnosis.
|
| I hate when people say "we know it's not X" without proof and
| without a specific alternative.
| davesque wrote:
| I'm not sure about this case, but wouldn't it be okay to say
| something like that if none of the diagnostic criteria for a
| disease are met?
| sudosysgen wrote:
| They can't say that, because their point is that these are
| all existing diseases, so for that point to be true they'd
| have to meet the criteria.
| stevespang wrote:
| anthk wrote:
| Head to the woods to make a small hike, at least once in a week.
| Avoid polluted environments.
| southerntofu wrote:
| Upvoted because that's solid advice. The problem is you may not
| know about polluted environments. This may well be the case of
| a private contractor burying very dangerous chemicals in a
| clearing in the woods and polluting the surroundings, in which
| case hiking there is not gonna do you any good.
|
| Environmental pollution is everywhere industrial capitalism is.
| All the major scandals about waste disposal in Europe
| (including nuclear waste disposal!) should make us think twice
| before we as a society find it acceptable to allow anyone to
| produce that kind of dangerous substances.
| fsagx wrote:
| _Environmental pollution is everywhere industrial capitalism
| is_
|
| Also where industrial communism was? Where industrial
| democratic socialism is?
|
| Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say: where industrial
| humans are or have been?
| southerntofu wrote:
| Well that's a nitpicking argument which depends on your
| definitions. From what i understand, what you call
| "communism" i call "State capitalism" and what you call
| "democratic socialism" i call "liberal capitalism". Under
| all these systems, there's privileges: people who have more
| and people who have less, while communism is usually
| defined as a stateless/classless society (including by
| marxists).
|
| > Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say: where
| industrial humans are or have been?
|
| Indeed! Yet this formula ignores the ties between the two
| concepts. Industrialization and capitalism grew hand in
| hand with extractivism and colonization starting in the
| 16th century. Without the industry to build boats to
| exploit the overseas, capitalism could not exist: yet
| without massive accumulation of wealth, industry as we know
| it could not be created.
|
| This is not to say pollution is impossible without
| capitalism. But capitalism as a social structure
| incentivizes not to care because there's no (immediate)
| profit involved in respecting your environment, and because
| there will always be more areas to exploit and pollute: our
| overlords are now openly talking of colonizing Mars once
| they're done fucking things up over here!
|
| If you have intellectual curiosity for critiques of
| industrial capitalism, i strongly recommend the "End: Civ"
| documentary.
| nate_meurer wrote:
| > _But capitalism as a social structure incentivizes not
| to care because there 's no (immediate) profit involved
| in respecting your environment_
|
| Ok. So what are the viable political/economic
| alternatives?
| jtbayly wrote:
| Ah yes. The old "Nobody has ever tried Communism (or
| socialism)" argument.
| christophilus wrote:
| That sounds to me like no true Scotsmanship.
| lostlogin wrote:
| The 'But communism polluted us too" comments here are a
| touch too defensive, and I don't get the point.
| jwond wrote:
| Some might say that the Industrial Revolution and its
| consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
| Swenrekcah wrote:
| Probably true, or perhaps:
|
| Wherever regulators have not been carefully selected and
| sufficiently empowered.
| never_a-pickle wrote:
| And take every precaution possible against ticks. Untreated
| Lyme is debilitating.
| DASD wrote:
| Many of the natural areas in Florida are maintained with the
| use glyphosate. Assumption now is pollution is everywhere.
| hammock wrote:
| They roundup the woods? Source?
| DASD wrote:
| https://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/manage/control-
| methods/chemical-...
| Warlockcraft wrote:
| This neurological disorder is not baffling to me. It is expected
| because of mental health issues that come from poverty,
| homelessness, water pollution, food pollution, air pollution,
| climate change, toxins in manufacturing plants, toxic chemicals
| that oil companies release into our Earth's environment,
| unrecycled trash causing methane, dehumanizing censorship, cut-
| throat politicians, and so forth damaging Earth's environment
| including people's well-being. Impulsive consumers are consuming
| carcinogenic junk food, alcohol, products for smoking, etc. So,
| this neurological disorder does not surprise me one bit. It is
| the corporate oligarchs who pretend this is baffling to hide
| their profit-driven agenda to control our world at the expense of
| our well-being and Earth's environment.
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