[HN Gopher] I switched my newsletters from Substack and Mailchim...
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       I switched my newsletters from Substack and Mailchimp to Buttondown
        
       Author : luu
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2022-01-02 07:57 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (guzey.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (guzey.com)
        
       | ncmncm wrote:
       | Mail from Mailchimp is typically indistinguishable from a
       | phishing attempt.
       | 
       | A company so clueless about internet security as to send out in
       | bulk what are indistinguishable from phishing attempts clearly
       | cannot be trusted to help manage your login/signup process.
       | 
       | And, any company seen to trust an outsourcer as clueless as
       | Mailchimp cannot be trusted with your personal information, never
       | mind your banking or stock transactions.
       | 
       | For particular example, Carta, a stock certificate management
       | site, uses such an e-mail outsourcer.
        
       | medion wrote:
       | I switched the other way - Buttondown to Substack. I did this in
       | theory for growth, because I thought Substack may provide some
       | better discoverability.
       | 
       | It did not and I regret the move!
        
         | funerr wrote:
         | You didn't move to substack you mean? And how do you know if it
         | was regretful?
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | I think they moved to substack but did not receive the
           | promised growth/discoverability, thus they regret the move.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | I've never thought of using substack as a way to manage my
       | startup's email list, but seeing this comparison made me consider
       | it. I don't like mailchimp and find the pricing to be atrocious
       | for my purposes (emailing 5k people once or twice a year). How
       | odd would it be to get an update from a company via a substack
       | email? Does anyone else do this?
        
         | krn wrote:
         | > I don't like mailchimp and find the pricing to be atrocious
         | for my purposes (emailing 5k people once or twice a year).
         | 
         | Have you looked at MailerLite[1]?
         | 
         | [1] https://www.mailerlite.com/
        
           | depereo wrote:
           | This looks like it's _slightly_ cheaper than MailChimp for
           | transactional emails, at least for the  'starter' level
           | subscription.
        
           | ubac wrote:
           | Email Octopus[1] are great, and 50% cheaper again than
           | MailerLite
           | 
           | for 5k-10k people, on monthly plan:
           | 
           | Mailchimp: $80
           | 
           | MailerLite: $50
           | 
           | EmailOctopus: $24
           | 
           | [1] https://emailoctopus.com
        
       | fideloper wrote:
       | I would be suspicious about how the services report clicks and
       | (especially) open rates. They are notoriously inaccurate.
       | 
       | Buttondown just may just be more generous (less rigorous) in
       | detecting false positives.
       | 
       | Deliverability is also partially on you (versus the provider) and
       | is not necessarily easy to get right (nor is it necessarily
       | consistent between email blasts).
        
       | tremdog wrote:
       | Why not use Klaviyo?
        
         | jordansmith wrote:
         | This was my thought too. Mail chimp is probably the worst ESP
         | so all options are going to beat it
        
       | ldoughty wrote:
       | An interesting experiment, had to look in the comments to see how
       | the group was distributed, and looks sufficiently random for a
       | simple test
        
       | civilized wrote:
       | I don't know. If the experiments were perfectly random, the
       | Buttondown-Substack difference is a 3-sigma effect, so the
       | difference is unlikely to be random chance. But why? What's so
       | special about one vs the other?
        
         | smthngwitty wrote:
         | Buttondown is less known, so it's trackers are less likely to
         | be blocked
        
         | ubac wrote:
         | so my instinct for a while has been that Substack have been
         | damaging their sender reputation by offering unlimited free
         | sending to unlimited recipients, with the upshot that they
         | attract a lot of people sending low-open-rate, marked-as-spam
         | or marked-as-promotional emails. (They also, to my knowledge,
         | won't let senders use their own email addresses, all emails are
         | sent from Substack).
         | 
         | I realise it's much more complicated than this, that within a
         | given ESP there are multiple bundles of senders and that better
         | customers get moved to a better bundle etc, but my guess is
         | that for any given level within Substack you're being bundled
         | with an unusually-bad group of peers and therefore getting
         | lower open rates -- I would love to know if this is an accurate
         | understanding, or if there's any accurate way to test this from
         | outside Substack.
        
           | civilized wrote:
           | Good theory. Even my Substack subscriptions land in
           | Promotions on GMail.
        
       | leros wrote:
       | Open rate should really only be affected by the content, though
       | it's possible the platforms have different deliverability/spam
       | rates.
        
       | sosborn wrote:
       | This is a very strange comment from the article:
       | 
       | >37% of openers clicked a link (I think this is because
       | Mailchimp's links are black rather than blue and it's easy to
       | miss them)
       | 
       | IMO, if they aren't doing anything to customize the appearance of
       | their emails then this experiment isn't worth much. It also makes
       | it sound like the emails weren't completely identical, which
       | makes click rate comparisons invalid.
       | 
       | Some of the bullets are helpful, but I wouldn't take this as any
       | kind of gospel.
        
         | kixiQu wrote:
         | It's reasonable to go about an experiment that includes within
         | its experimental parameters the mailers' default appearances,
         | since part of the reason folks use these services is to have
         | that all done up without too much manual intervention.
        
           | sosborn wrote:
           | I guess, but at least with Mailchimp, there are a large
           | number of "default appearances," which one did they choose? I
           | would have appreciated screenshots of each email to see what
           | was being compared to what.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | > 37% of openers clicked a link (I think this is because
       | Mailchimp's links are black rather than blue and it's easy to
       | miss them)
       | 
       | I wonder if these results can be replicated. Is there a detailed
       | description of the process? I'm now especially interested in
       | seeing the emails that were delivered to the users.
        
       | exolymph wrote:
       | Very surprised that Buttondown didn't respond to a couple of
       | support emails. I used Buttondown for a while (now on Ghost) and
       | always received excellent, fast support.
        
       | hamiltonians wrote:
       | substack sends too many emails. i had to unsub from a blog for
       | that reason.
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | It does, but there are settings to turn some email
         | notifications off (such as for comments). You can also use the
         | RSS feed instead.
        
           | ubac wrote:
           | wait, is Substack sending notifications for comments by
           | default now? That's wild....
        
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       (page generated 2022-01-02 23:01 UTC)