[HN Gopher] Deepfake detection by human crowds, machines, and ma...
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       Deepfake detection by human crowds, machines, and machine-informed
       crowds
        
       Author : infodocket
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2021-12-30 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pnas.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pnas.org)
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | I foresee a day when deepfake will be so easy and widespread that
       | people (authorities) will acquire the habit of digitally signing
       | what they say.
        
         | roywiggins wrote:
         | Well, they might digitally sign the things they say that they
         | think reflect well on them. Why would they sign their gaffes?
         | And then we're back where we started: someone shares a video of
         | someone making a gaffe. There's no signature. Is it missing
         | because it's fake, or because the speaker knew it was a gaffe?
         | "Hey, I recorded you saying bad stuff in a donor meeting, will
         | you sign it for me to prove it's not a deepfake?"
        
           | champagnois wrote:
           | That to me reads like a future where the right to be
           | forgotten is finally restored.
           | 
           | Anyone can then claim fake news about anything that wasnt
           | enumerated on their resume.
        
             | joe_the_user wrote:
             | An unlimited "right to be forgotten" would serve criminals,
             | conmen and crocked politicians perfect.
        
           | fucyvuevyx wrote:
        
         | BoorishBears wrote:
         | Ignoring how little sense it makes to say spoken word would
         | be... digitally signed???
         | 
         | We've been at the point where a determined amateur could learn
         | the skills to handcraft a false statement from a political
         | figure.
         | 
         | The content is not the issue, the trust of that content is.
         | 
         | (In theory) the more authoritative the source, the more they'll
         | require to treat a statement as real.
         | 
         | Right now you could get a good impersonator to say something
         | stupid and send it to one of those half-trying tabloids and
         | they'd run it even if they knew it was fake...
         | 
         | On the other hand a place like the NY Times might require more
         | meat to the story, how did you get it, what was the chain of
         | custody, etc.
        
           | wswope wrote:
           | The OP means cryptographically signed for proof of
           | provenance, not bundled with a scanned copy of a signature.
        
             | BoorishBears wrote:
             | Oh trust me I know... and it's _more_ ridiculous than
             | bundling a scanned copy of a signature, and at best only as
             | functional as that!
        
               | wswope wrote:
               | I'm not trying to @ you here, but... are you sure you
               | really know?
               | 
               | Cryptographic signatures offer gold-standard, definitive
               | proof of authenticity/non-repudiation. "Trust of
               | content", as you put it, is the problem they solve.
        
               | BoorishBears wrote:
               | "Don't want to @ me" please.
               | 
               | I'm know what it is and in typical fashion you don't even
               | understand the pinky toe of problem you're braying about.
               | 
               | -
               | 
               | Politicians will not use their private key to sign
               | statements that hurt them even if they're real...
               | 
               | So what on earth do you think a cryptological signature
               | is solving in relation to deepfakes????
               | 
               | Deepfake recording of politician saying something bad: "I
               | neither signed nor said that."
               | 
               | Actual recording politician saying something bad: "I
               | neither signed not said that."
               | 
               | Your scheme does literally nothing to solve the deepfake
               | issue!
        
               | wswope wrote:
               | Why so aggressive?
               | 
               | Including signatures as a matter of policy on all public
               | communiques from a government agency would be useful for
               | validating legitimacy, as anything deepfaked (i.e.
               | without a signature) would immediately be called into
               | question.
        
         | blacksmith_tb wrote:
         | I suppose it depends on who they're addressing, but you could
         | also imagine 'legitimate' fakes being issued by politicians and
         | CEOs making announcements without the need to actually appear
         | in front a crowd to disseminate them.
        
       | kgin wrote:
       | Super interesting. Short term this will be useful for detecting
       | deepfakes. Long term this will be useful in training deepfake
       | models to make undetectable deepfakes.
        
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