[HN Gopher] Gas tanker hit by super-yacht sinks off New Providence
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Gas tanker hit by super-yacht sinks off New Providence
Author : colinprince
Score : 59 points
Date : 2021-12-30 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.tribune242.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.tribune242.com)
| yawnxyz wrote:
| "The crew ... have been rescued and safely returned to a company-
| owned facility" is such a strange-sounding sentence. I'm glad
| they were returned, though.
| scoot wrote:
| A missing comma after "rescued" perhaps? With it, it would mean
| "they returned", rather than "they have been returned".
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Where is "New Providence"?
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| The Bahamas, it's the island where Nassau is located. The
| article mentions that "Bahamian authorities have been
| notified."
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Thanks, I didn't see that. I looked around the newpaper's
| website and couldn't find a clear indication of their
| location.
| walrus01 wrote:
| bahamas
| Groxx wrote:
| > _"Maritime Management has expressed its sincere gratitude to
| Bahamian authorities for their support and assistance throughout
| this incident and are particularly grateful to the crew of the M
| /Y Mara who responded to the Tropic Breeze's distress call and
| rescued all seven crew members on board the sinking tanker," the
| company said._
|
| So... the yacht hit a tanker, and then didn't help when it sank?
| Effectively a hit-and-run?
|
| If accurate, I hope they get hit hard for this. That's absurd.
| Tuna-Fish wrote:
| The yacht probably had it's own problems after the impact. The
| tanker wasn't _that_ much smaller than it was.
| Groxx wrote:
| I suppose. It is odd that it and those onboard are almost
| totally unmentioned though. If the tanker crew needed rescue
| and _another boat_ took care of it, seems like either the
| yacht chose not to help... or was both unable to help and
| didn 't need to be helped? I'm not seeing how the latter is
| feasible, unless they were sink _ing_ but repaired it enough
| to limp back to dock later or something.
|
| Though since they're _totally_ unmentioned, I guess they
| could have even sunk too, and the people could have been
| onboard the rescue ship or a different unmentioned one. But
| that 'd be weird too. Or is that kind of omission normal in
| an event at sea like this, showing exclusively one side's
| troubles? It does feel fairly formulaic / technical.
| hinkley wrote:
| I know a sailboat owner who says power boat drivers are assholes.
| I thought they were just being rude until I locked through a
| canal with them. Holy shit can those people be stupid. Just throw
| it in reverse without looking behind me. What could go wrong?
| Sailboats have a lot less control going backward. Because of the
| rudder, the motor is often mounted off-center. You can go mostly
| backward, but straight back involves vectoring, and on a small
| sailboat the extra passengers throw off your groove, not unlike
| how you have to brake a little earlier when you have a full car
| of people versus just yourself.
|
| That said, I was under the impression that big yachts like these
| actually had a professional at the wheel. The article doesn't
| seem to make any comment on whether a pilot was on the bridge or
| the owner. If it wasn't obvious from my first paragraph, I'm
| suspecting the latter.
| walrus01 wrote:
| might be there's a high degree of venn diagram overlap between
| assholes and people who have the disposable income to buy a
| $200,000+ rapidly depreciating, expensive to maintain toy.
| pohl wrote:
| Maybe more pronounced, even, as the pricetag gets larger:
|
| _The yacht is listed for sale at $51 million._
| hinkley wrote:
| No argument here.
|
| Pepper on top that I know when I have an expensive toy I
| don't want other people telling me how to use it.
|
| The bigger problem was how close they come to smaller
| vehicles, at speed, without a care in the world. When I saw
| that pro-Trump flotilla running at speed, my first thought
| was that somebody was going to get swamped. Sure enough, a
| bunch of little boats sunk that day.
| masklinn wrote:
| > The bigger problem was how close they come to smaller
| vehicles, at speed
|
| Which, but for the scale, is exactly what happened here:
|
| > Maritime Management said the 160-foot tanker was
| traveling on its proper watch en route to Great Stirrup Cay
| when it was rear-ended by the 207-foot super yacht.
|
| While 160ft seems like a pretty small tanker (some sort of
| local delivery ship?) a 200+ft yacht seems utterly insane,
| it's a _large_ floating house. And yet it apparently doesn
| 't even make the "list of motor yachts by length", whose
| cutoff is 246ft (75m).
|
| Also per that page,
|
| > superyachts range from 37 m ([?]120 ft) up to 60 m
| ([?]200 ft), and megayachts are over 60 m
| odonnellryan wrote:
| Oh yeah. We have had boats get so close to use where they gave
| literally splashed us. And this isn't in some confined area,
| this is in the Raritan bay. They can go anywhere!
| trillic wrote:
| Power boaters are assholes.
|
| Pro captains are only for the really really big boats. Some
| people buy a 50 footer because they can drive it themselves
| instead of having to pay someone to.
|
| - Sailor
| oh_my_goodness wrote:
| The article claims this boat is over 200'.
| bikeshaving wrote:
| > not unlike how you have to brake a little earlier when you
| have a full car of people versus just yourself
|
| If you're noticing the increase in stopping distance due to
| three more bodies in your car you should probably brake sooner
| and drive at slightly more reasonable speeds.
| kortilla wrote:
| Bad news, it sounds like your friend is the asshole and didn't
| realize he had to behave with power boat rules when under motor
| power regardless of how incompetent he is operating it under
| power.
| walrus01 wrote:
| you missed the part where the power boats are _reversing
| themselves_ into the poster 's friend's boat, which is
| careless navigation/boat handling in a lock and canal type
| environment.
| brk wrote:
| Eh, it goes both ways. Plenty of sail boat operators that do
| not realize when operating under power they are now a power
| boat, regardless of sails deployed, and must abide by "power
| boat" rules, which among other things means they no longer have
| the same default "right of way" considerations (it's more
| complex, but this is an adequate simplification for this
| thread). The result of this is often asshole-ish behavior on
| the part of the sail boat captain.
| tlb wrote:
| Does it create a problem that other boats can't tell which
| rules a motor/sail boat are operating under?
|
| In other driving rule systems, it's important that everyone
| can predict everyone else's proper behavior.
| oh_my_goodness wrote:
| Big power boats go where they go. They may or may not even
| be looking in the direction they're moving.
| jore wrote:
| My instructor told me that the size is what matters often
| in real life. He was sailing a 45 foot yacht from Europe to
| South America (ARC race) and in the middle of the Atlantic
| Ocean they were very close to hitting a huge tanker. They
| were with sails at night, but the tanker was not willing to
| change course for such a small boat so around 50m before
| the impact the sailing boat changes course. All the time
| they were on the radio talking with the captain of the
| tanker, but they could not persuade him to change course.
| And for them this is a race so they always wanted to follow
| the optimal course, therefore they were reluctant to change
| their course
| brk wrote:
| It can be problematic, yes. If two vessels are approaching
| each other on a collision course, one is generally
| considered the give-way vessel, and the other is the stand-
| on vessel. As the names imply, one is supposed to alter
| course to avoid a collision, and the other is supposed to
| maintain course (eg: specifically NOT alter course) so that
| the other vessel can adjust accordingly.
|
| Without getting overly complicated here, there is a whole
| structure to it, and it generally comes down to a
| combination of the locations of the vessels relative to
| each other (if another vessel is in a zone that roughly
| correlates to and area from straight-ahead/noon to 4
| o'clock on YOUR boat then YOU are the give-way vessle) with
| precedence to the vessel with the least amount of
| maneuverability. The maneuverability bit is not granular
| like "your boat is smaller than mine and more easily
| steered" but more like "your boat is a tanker or a barge
| and maneuverability is measured in miles, not meters". So,
| a sailboat under wind power exclusively is less
| maneuverable than a power boat, but more maneuverable than
| a freighter. However sailboaters often seem to interpret
| this as "if my sails are up all other boats MUST give-way
| me to me", which is definitely incorrect.
| walrus01 wrote:
| If a sailboat is moving under power it should be visually
| obvious that all sails are down, furled, etc.
| brk wrote:
| However they can be moving under sail AND power
| simultaneously. It's not uncommon.
| Gwypaas wrote:
| Then it should display a downward pointed cone as a
| daytime signal and regular power vessel lanterns in the
| dark.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Sure -- in which case (motorsailing) they'll still be
| moving at a fraction of the speed and maneuverability of
| a regular powerboat. Your arguments about right of way
| are not just pedantic, they're specious. The ratio of at-
| fault collisions between sail and powerboats blamed on
| the former approaches zero.
|
| FTR I've owned and captained boats of both types in New
| England for over 25 years.
| brk wrote:
| FTR I've owned and captained boats on the Great Lakes,
| New England, and now in Florida for about 30 years. My
| experience differs from yours.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Is there a CA SWITRS-analogue for boat incidents? I'd
| like to just do the stats myself, if available.
| tlb wrote:
| GP seems to claim that, with sails spread AND motor
| running, it has to follow power boat rules despite
| looking the same as when it's just sailing.
| i_am_proteus wrote:
| The claim is correct. COLREGS are not ambiguous about
| this.
|
| >The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail
| provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not
| being used
|
| See pp6-7 (PDF 14-15)
| https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf
| Someone wrote:
| A sailboat under power with sails up should fly an inverted
| black cone ("steaming cone", "motoring cone"). There's
| rules for lighting at night, too.
|
| I wouldn't know how often sailboats adhere to these rules.
| Gwypaas wrote:
| Depends on enforcement. We tend to hoist ours when
| getting to Germany because both the Police and Coast
| Guard tend to actually care and will fine you. Otherwise,
| pretty much never.
| yakshaving_jgt wrote:
| A 200+ foot superyacht is not going to be owner-operated.
| rhexs wrote:
| What kind of insurance policy a super yacht owner would have will
| cover something like this?
| adventured wrote:
| Depends on the owner. If you're Larry Ellison rich, you'll
| place those types of assets under an operating corporation
| meant just for the purpose of managing eg your yachts and
| attempt to have it step in front of liability risk so they
| can't very easily go after Ellison's other $109 billion in
| personal wealth. That corporation will carry very substantial
| insurance policies for just such risks. It's obviously
| incredibly expensive to own & operate a super yacht.
| nerdponx wrote:
| This is frustrating because even a massive payout to
| insurance still doesn't cover the environmental
| externalities.
|
| There should be a different set of government-imposed
| penalties for environmental damage resulting from negligence,
| essentially a probabilistic Pigouvian tax.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| How much money, paid to whom, would negate the
| environmental damage caused by this accident?
| rurp wrote:
| Well nothing can negate an incident like this, but a lot
| can be done to mitigate the damage and disincentive this
| happening in the future. The government that has
| jurisdiction should heavily fine the person(s)
| responsible and direct the money towards the victims in
| the tanker and for environmental cleanup.
| wilde wrote:
| It's a good question. One answer could be "enough money
| to act as a deterrent" and "who cares, the govt I guess".
|
| EDIT: Could also do the student debt thing and have the
| fines pierce corporate veils and not be dismissible in
| bankruptcy.
| sp332 wrote:
| And how much will their premiums go up after an accident in
| which they were at fault?
| jmalicki wrote:
| Can't speak to insurance, but fwiw the M/T tropical breeze has
| DWT of 750 [1], whereas Wikipedia considers 30,000 DWT to be on
| the smaller end [2], so this is likely a much smaller tanker
| than one would envision when one first reads the headline, and
| likely costs notably less than the $51 million asking price of
| the yacht [3], as Wikipedia says a 32,000 DWT tanker (40x the
| size of the one here) runs for about $43 million.
|
| 1. https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/TROPIC-BREEZE-
| IMO-89063... 2.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_tanker#Vessel_pricing 3.
| https://www.boatinternational.com/yacht-market-intelligence/...
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| When they said gas tanker instead of oil tanker, I assumed
| that this was a local fuel delivery boat, not an
| international shipping tanker. I guess the article doesn't
| make that clear, though. Maybe it's something that the
| audience in the Bahamas would be more familiar with so they
| didn't feel the need to explain further.
| Animats wrote:
| Marine Traffic has some pictures of the Tropic Breeze.[1]
| Pictures of a large oil tanker in the Jamaican Observer[2]
| are unrelated. The Tropic Breeze looked like a work boat
| with a big liquid natural gas tank on deck. Destination was
| Great Stirrup Cay, a 200+ acre island owned by Norwegian
| Cruise Lines and used as a stopping point for their cruise
| ships. The cruise line has a resort there.
|
| Not yet clear if the collision happened in open ocean or
| maneuvering near an island.
|
| [1] https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos/of/ships/shipid
| :3777...
|
| [2] https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestnews/Bahamian_aut
| horit...
| bburrito wrote:
| And just like when the same thing that happened off of San Diego
| and killed a few people... nothing will happen to the negligent
| crew of the yacht. Fuck the environment!
|
| At least nobody died this time.
| dijonman2 wrote:
| Is there something to be angry about here?
| pohl wrote:
| Rich, negligent assholes?
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Maybe? Someone driving a super-yacht was incredibly
| negligent, running another ship hard enough to sink it (!),
| then letting _someone else_ rescue the crew of the ship they
| sank (!!). By doing so, they caused the release of a bunch of
| gasoline, aviation gas, and LPG at the bottom of the ocean,
| with the attendant environmental issues.
|
| Yes, there might be things to be angry about in that...
| dijonman2 wrote:
| I'm with you on most of your points, but do we know it was
| negligent? Isn't it normal to wait for an investigation
| before jumping to conclusions?
|
| I think the vessel owner and crew are getting an unfair
| wrap because of money. If it's true this is good news, as
| someone can pay for the cleanup.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| It's actually kind of insane how negligent super-yacht crews
| are. I've had a number of close calls sailing in the summer
| around the Hudson / in the ocean right outside of Manhattan.
| Many crews also have no clue how to handle currents or operate
| a vessel in close proximity.
|
| Never had issues with huge tankers, police boats etc - but I
| can count a handful of times super yacht (a boat longer than
| 40m) captains have been drunk, high or just absent when a
| vessel is in motion.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Asking as a non-boater: does the Coast Guard take seriously
| allegations of such seamanship?
|
| Basically I'm curious if sea captains are held to similar
| standards as airplane pilots, or if poor boat piloting is
| only penalized when actual mishaps occur.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| They take drinking really seriously, it's way easier to get
| a DUI on a boat than a car.
|
| Most of my experience has been in the Boston Harbor, which
| depending on who you talk to is more dangerous than the
| hudson, but in my experience most of what they dislike on
| the hudson is erratic lateral movement. Basically, you're
| not supposed to meander or transit laterally unless you're
| a sailboat or a ferry. Police boats / coast guard will
| approach vessels quickly if it looks like they aren't aware
| of these rules.
|
| That said, maritime rules are pretty vague. Basically,
| boats going one direction stay to the right, the opposing
| direction stays to the left. Situational awareness is
| important to avoid other slower / faster / larger vessels.
| "Share the road y'all" is the most succinct way to explain
| boating in a nutshell haha.
| sokoloff wrote:
| > boats going one direction stay to the right, the
| opposing direction stays to the left.
|
| Wouldn't that put them head-on? If a southbound boat
| stays to the right (west side) of a channel and an
| opposite direction boat stays left (also west side), that
| seems worse than everyone staying right.
| jgoldshlag wrote:
| Everyone stays to the right
| noah_buddy wrote:
| You're flipping the frame of reference for each case
| which is what makes it confusing. Staring up or down a
| waterway, opposing traffic are on opposite sides (left or
| right). From each boats perspective, they are on the
| right side.
| odonnellryan wrote:
| If you have a captains license, it is not good if people
| complain about you. They do investigate.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| walrus01 wrote:
| For a fun time on the Hudson, when the UN is in session,
| watch how many small/medium powerboats aren't paying
| attention to news and USCG notices before heading out.
|
| They try to go full speed down the west side of Roosevelt
| Island and are always stopped and turned back by a pair of
| NYPD small gunboats.
|
| https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/Attachments/1924/CGA.
| ..
| jfk13 wrote:
| "Turned back"? Maybe they should be impounded. (Or just
| sunk?) That might get their attention.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Much as the NYPD might have a reputation for being
| trigger happy, it's probably a good thing they don't
| arbitrarily open fire with the pintle mounted M2 or M249
| on the front of those gunboats.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| Especially when idiotic protesters wade out into the hudson
| to try to "block shipping lanes" or "protest police" in
| February. Basically a death wish.
| odonnellryan wrote:
| What do you sail in the area? I'm a member of KYC.
| goodpoint wrote:
| Forgive the stupid question: is there no collision avoidance
| system on large ships?
| TelixBBS wrote:
| mcguire wrote:
| Technically, there are many. The two primary being radar and
| watch-standers. Both rely on the crew paying attention.
| chmod775 wrote:
| You could maybe pull that off on a small boat, but collision
| avoidance on large vessels can mean planning a long time ahead.
| You pretty much need a human.
|
| The largest vessels need 30 minutes to come to a full stop.
| Just turning is obviously easier, but it's still... slow and a
| huge arc.
| cesarb wrote:
| The marine equivalent of ADS-B is called AIS. But it just
| warns, it does not (and should not) steer the ship.
| irthomasthomas wrote:
| A 160ft tanker is rear-ended by a 200ft pleasure yacht, promptly
| sinks 2,000 feet, beyond hope of recovery, and its cargo of gas
| evaporates.
|
| I wonder how much that tanker and cargo was insured for?
| mcguire wrote:
| I wonder how much the yacht was insured for.
|
| Lots of lawsuits incoming.
| eps wrote:
| The yacht - https://www.superyachtfan.com/yacht/utopia-iv/
|
| Appears to be for sale and for rent, the owner is an American
| behind "Market America" MLM outlet and shop.com.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| And they even report the crash story right next to the sales
| price... I sincerely hope that this isn't a perverse attempt at
| improving SEO through scandal like that fake airplane crash
| video from yesterday.
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(page generated 2021-12-30 23:01 UTC)