[HN Gopher] An mRNA-based anti-tick vaccine
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An mRNA-based anti-tick vaccine
Author : chapulin
Score : 166 points
Date : 2021-12-30 18:08 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.science.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org)
| _Microft wrote:
| Google Scholar seems to be a referrer that unlocks the paywall:
|
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=55578496001721736...
| andrewclunn wrote:
| An article on the subject without a paywall:
|
| https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2021/12/a-lab-st...
| theptip wrote:
| Interestingly, there was a Lyme vaccine in the late 90s that was
| pulled from the market:
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/
|
| I think it's a shame it was withdrawn, with a low effectiveness
| of 80% and even requiring annual boosters I'd view that as a
| great option if I lived somewhere with deer ticks. Lyme disease
| is scary.
| partiallypro wrote:
| I think the alpha-gal allegy is also scary. Hopefully this will
| help with that.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I think the problem is that the main way of testing for Lyme is
| to test for the antibodies. So what if you fall in the 20%? How
| will you know? You'll still end up being treating whether
| vaccinated or not.
| theptip wrote:
| I'm far more more concerned about "undetected tick bite =>
| lifetime incurable Lyme disease" than "detected tick bite =>
| unnecessary course of antibiotics".
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Last summer, I noticed an odd spot on a leg of my female
| colleague when she arrived at work in a short skirt.
|
| Fortunately, we are good friends and I could tell her
| without any kind of trouble.
|
| Yes, she had a tick on that precise place a week before.
| Yes, it looked like erythema migrans, a typical early sign
| of a Lyme infection (borreliosis). No, she never heard
| about that and was a bit reluctant about doing anything
| about it. Yes, I persuaded her to see her doctor _now_. She
| got antibiotics immediately and seems to be fine.
| coolso wrote:
| > You'll still end up being treating whether vaccinated or
| not.
|
| Isn't the typical treatment a course of antibiotics? In other
| words the risks from being "unnecessarily" treated should be
| fairly low.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Any unnecessary use of antibiotics should be avoided, as it
| can create an environment for the development of
| antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
| coolso wrote:
| Yes, but I believe the most common antibiotics prescribed
| for Lyme disease are doxycycline and monocycline, two
| antibiotics that are used by millions daily (on a
| somewhat long-term basis) already for the management of
| things like acne.
|
| While certainly not ideal, with 8 million prescriptions
| in the US alone, I'm not sure an additional potentially
| unnecessary course of doxycycline is the worst thing in
| the world when compared to the possibility that the
| alternative is full blown Lyme disease.
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| Could we not check for the type of antibodies just like we do
| with covid?
| steffen84 wrote:
| This how it's done in germany. Just got tested for Lyme
| disease. Tick bite was in late summer no rash. The skin in
| the area changed to red/blue after 5 months, so i got
| tested and the test was positive. Antibodies IgG 46, IgM 5.
| Now 3 weeks of antibiotics.
| TelixBBS wrote:
| [deleted]
| reportingsjr wrote:
| It is spreading. I'm in south west Ohio where it is unheard
| of. Well, it was until a few years ago when people starting
| getting it here.
| jointpdf wrote:
| You can see it spreading into Ohio (and elsewhere) in these
| maps from 2001 to 2019:
| https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps.html
| TelixBBS wrote:
| When I look at 2019 VS 2001, it looks like it is
| spreading north... at least for the most eastern
| states...
| polskibus wrote:
| What are you taking about? It's in most of Europe, Asia etc.
| climate changes pushed ticks to new areas. It's not just
| "east northern states".
| Den-vr wrote:
| https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/tables.html
|
| Indeed, it is not just "east northern states."
| klyrs wrote:
| I know one of the people who is represented in that
| table. He got bit in New Jersey, and didn't notice the
| target growing on his chest until he was driving home,
| and didn't get treated until he arrived home in
| Washington (because that's where he's insured; go
| healthcare). The CDC would count that as a Washington
| State incident.
|
| See point 3 in the study's stated limitations[1]:
|
| > 3. Surveillance data are captured by county of
| residence, not county of exposure.
|
| Given that he was 1 of 12 cases in that year, I wouldn't
| interpret that table as proof that the range of Lyme-
| infected ticks has spread to Washington state.
|
| [1] https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/survfaq.html
| TelixBBS wrote:
| chris_wot wrote:
| HN is read by people all over the world. Not just those
| in the U.S.
| TelixBBS wrote:
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| Here's the US prevalence map by county, it's definitely
| pretty widespread:
|
| https://therevelator.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/lyme-
| US-...
| [deleted]
| Den-vr wrote:
| I agree the disease is scary. The antibiotic regiment has real
| side-effects, I've known it to cause sunburns from casual
| sunlight exposure.
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/tables.html
| detritus wrote:
| Ooh, reminds me of my days abusing St John's Wort (amongst a
| great many other things) during Uni days and feeelig my skin
| bristle and burn in the heat of light shards of sunlight
| streaming between otherwise closed curtains... .
| elric wrote:
| Oh! This happened to me, and I thought I was just crazy
| sensitive or something, but it turns out to be an actual
| thing? After a few days on antibiotics for lyme, I walked to
| the shop to buy sunscreen. Spent maybe 20 minutes outside.
| Worst sunburn I've ever had.
|
| Anything that can help prevent tick borne diseases is a win
| in my book. In Western Europe, in many cases that should
| probably include restoring wildlife habitats...
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Veterinary vaccination for lyme disease is common. According to
| Wikipedia, the human vaccine was withdrawn due to poor market
| performance.
|
| Claims of autoimmune-type side effects led to several lawsuits,
| and though CDC and FDA found no connection to the vaccine, the
| public largely rejected it.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Vaccination
| GhettoComputers wrote:
| Will this be a neutralizing vaccine? I like the idea of mRNA
| based vaccines but unless it prevents infections and is permanent
| like for polio, I don't see any great uptake if it's expected to
| decompose rapidly like the COVID vaccines.
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| What would a neutralizing vaccine against ticks look like? And
| why would it matter that much for a parasite that doesn't
| usually go from human to human?
|
| The polio vaccination is 4 doses, and a booster every 10 years
| if you are at risk. Maybe the covid vaccines will fare
| similarly. Two shots very close to each other isn't ideal for
| immunisation, we knew that from the beginning.
| _Microft wrote:
| Summary: the tests were conducted on guinea pigs because they can
| develop immune reactions to repeated tick bites like humans do.
| Mice do not seem to be suited for that for once.
|
| The vaccine was administered intradermally. It consists of
| nucleoside-modified mRNA encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles like
| we know them from Covid vaccines already. The contained mRNA
| sequences encode 19 different proteins that are usually found in
| the saliva of a particular kind of tick in the US. These proteins
| were selected because of prior research it was known that they
| seemed to cause inflammatory reactions in the host. The
| inflammatory reaction that occured at the site of the tick bite
| hampered feeding of the ticks and reduced risk of disease
| transmission. The vaccine mostly seems to buy more time to remove
| the ticks before an infection can take place because the disease
| causing bacteria was not directly targeted by the vaccine.
| SamBam wrote:
| Interesting. At first I figured the title was misleading --
| surely they meant an anti-Lyme disease vaccination -- but it
| turns out that, no, they mean exactly that: anti-tick. They're
| training the immune system to recognize the tick saliva. This
| means that the immune system would recognize the bite much
| quicker, attack anything associated with it, and in general
| activate the body's innate immune system faster, leading to a
| faster response by the adaptive immune system.
|
| In their trials on hamsters, none of the hamsters with the
| vaccine got Lyme disease, even though it wasn't a vaccine
| directly targeting Lyme.
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| That sounds amazing!
|
| The irony is, in the United States at least, a tick-proofing
| vaccine would be most useful in areas where the population
| has a relatively dim perspective on mRNA vaccines.
| [deleted]
| jdavis703 wrote:
| Ridiculous. Among others, urban residents who enjoy rural
| hikes and suburban residents who walk their dogs are all at
| risk from tick bites. I've personally been bitten by ticks
| more times than I can count, and ditto for my dog.
|
| Edit: and yes I know how to prevent bites, but sometimes
| when you're in the US South and hiking on a hot summer day
| you let your guard down.
| lurquer wrote:
| chrononaut wrote:
| > The irony is, in the United States at least, a tick-
| proofing vaccine would be most useful in areas where the
| population has a relatively dim perspective on mRNA
| vaccines.
|
| In what sense? The states most affected by Lyme[0] are
| generally the most (COVID-19) vaccinated in the US[1]
|
| [0] https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/maps-
| recent.html
|
| [1] https://covidactnow.org/?s=27521640
| heavyset_go wrote:
| If you go outside of the urban areas in those states,
| you'll quickly enter many deep red areas. Take a look at
| where the largest outbreaks are occurring in those
| states, they're often the suburban and rural areas that
| are 45+ minutes away from urban centers.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Antivax for COVID is different, as it became a political
| sports contest.
|
| Usually the groups who have low vaccination rates are
| more extreme religious groups. It's usually not a big
| deal from a broader population perspective - the
| exception being measles.
| mc32 wrote:
| Oddly we had the current President and VP also saying
| they'd never take a Trump vaccine[1]. So it's truly very
| political for many people and not complete science based
| even when now they claim to adhere to science. To wit:
|
| September 6, 2020: Kamala Harris says "I think that's
| going to be an issue" when asked if she would get an
| approved coronavirus vaccine.
|
| July 28, 2020: Joe Biden suggests the coronavirus vaccine
| won't be "real" and may not be "safe."
|
| August 6, 2020: Biden says the vaccine is "not likely to
| go through all the tests that needs to be and the trials
| that are needed to be done."
|
| September 3, 2020: Biden asks "Who's going to take the
| shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me
| up?"
|
| September 7, 2020: Biden said he would take the
| coronavirus vaccine "only if we knew all of what went
| into it."
|
| [1] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/campaign-
| press-rel...
| bremac wrote:
| As I recall, the context of those comments was in
| response to a purported attempt to fast-track any vaccine
| to be ready prior to the election. The Washington Post
| appears to have the same recollection [1].
|
| [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/05/sc
| alises-...
| LarrySellers wrote:
| The parent is copy/pasting from the linked press release
| _from Trump_ which exclusively links to
| _donaldtrumpcampaign.cmail20.com_. They know they 're
| arguing in bad faith.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| States aren't homogeneous, though, and rural people in
| blue states can be extra over the top in their
| performative Trumpism. For example, there's a good case
| to be made that California Republicans are much more
| focused on performative Trumpism than on actually winning
| elections.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| There's different cohorts of trumpists. Remember that
| he's a demagogue/personality cult figure, with an orbit
| of parasites adjacent to him.
|
| Rural people are lowercase conservative in general, but
| his real power base are blue collar low information
| nihilists. They see his vulgarity as "straight talk". But
| the man isn't conservative.
|
| Somebody will figure out how to divide and conquer those
| groups.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| There indeed are people whose immune systems will attack and
| kill ticks.
|
| https://eu.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/health/lyme-
| di...
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Question (from a regular joe): is the platform used for mRNA
| vaccines interchangeable ? Same design and fabrication process,
| but different payloads ? Or do different mRNA material imply
| different lipid shells ?
| [deleted]
| grouphugs wrote:
| throwawaymanbot wrote:
| ce4 wrote:
| Interesting. That is the second vaccine in 4 months, Pfizer /
| Valnevas's upcoming (non mRNA) VLA15 was discussed here 4 months
| ago:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28312868
| cromulent wrote:
| I'm hopeful that a side effect of this pandemic is a new age of
| vaccine capability.
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