[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How does my Instagram keep getting compromised?
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       Ask HN: How does my Instagram keep getting compromised?
        
       I was an early Instagram user and got my nickname as my handle and
       I keep getting either locked out of my account or compromised
       altogether.  Over the years, hackers have tried a number of things
       to steal my handle and I can usually tell how they get in. These
       days, I have no idea. I've been SIM swapped a handful of times. One
       time a hacker faxed a fake ID to Godaddy to try and swap out my
       domain to gain control of my email (they were successful).  Now, I
       will try to log in to my account and will just be locked out. The
       email I created specifically for Instagram is not recognized, and
       there is no way to reset my password.  I have two-factor auth on, I
       don't use the same password anywhere else, I change it regularly,
       etc.  My current theory is there is some employee at Meta that's
       ultimately stealing the account. Does anybody have any idea how
       they're hacking me?  PS: the worst part about all this is in order
       to get the handle back, I have to pull strings with folks I know at
       Meta, for a normal user, they would have absolutely no way of
       regaining access...  [Update] Just got the account back and still
       have no idea how my email was removed from the account...  [Update
       2] Reviewing the security section I see a password reset email was
       sent to [username]@instagramz.com. No clue how or who changed the
       account email to that though.
        
       Author : china
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2021-12-28 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | Have you tried reporting this to Meta's security team and copying
       | your state's attorney general? Sounds like the CFAA would apply.
       | You may not win, but making noise may help, and if it's an
       | insider they might be fired if Meta knows the legal apparatus is
       | notified.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act
        
         | china wrote:
         | I haven't yet... so far I have always been able to get it back
         | via a friend at FB.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Get on record with law enforcement and state legal reps.
           | Unauthorized authorization is a federal crime, and a paper
           | trail is crucial for seeking recourse.
        
       | tpoacher wrote:
       | Meta just seems to be superhackable with the company not giving a
       | shit these days.
       | 
       | There was another user here the other day who had their
       | heavymetal community page hacked, and facebook's advice page was
       | to "politely ask the new owner to let them back in" [1].
       | 
       | Absolutely ridiculous.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29706571
        
       | FDSGSG wrote:
       | > My current theory is there is some employee at Meta that's
       | ultimately stealing the account
       | 
       | This happens all the time, there is no recourse. Instagram
       | employees are constantly taking usernames for themselves.
        
         | leftpass wrote:
         | Not just themselves, often it's stolen to order: there's been a
         | few mainstream stories about this and they often mention that
         | paying off Facebook employees is pretty commonplace because the
         | value of these usernames and the low paid customer service
         | representatives are a recipe for bribery.
        
         | tmp_anon_22 wrote:
         | Seems like employees can manually escalate accounts into a
         | locked state and my guess is if it remains in that state long
         | enough its easier to claim.
         | 
         | So they frustrate users long enough to eventually give up on
         | constantly reclaiming the account, then they get it for
         | themselves to sell or whatever.
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | wait what? how are they not fired, thats got to be against the
         | "community guidelines" (unless of course its for an advertiser
         | or political organisation. )
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | I assume they aren't emailing Mark Zuckerberg with every
           | account they steal. All it takes is lax internal auditing and
           | a culture where customer service[1] is not valued and this
           | could go on for a very long time.
           | 
           | [1] Ok, this is a little unfair. They do have customer
           | service, but what they don't have is product service, and
           | this guy is just part of the product, not a customer.
        
         | rich_sasha wrote:
         | Interesting, do you have any links to that end?
        
           | FDSGSG wrote:
           | Just my personal observation. I earned around half a million
           | dollars by running an "autoclaimer" that would automatically
           | register Instagram names as they'd become available. I'd
           | regularly see Instagram employees grabbing names from my
           | portfolio for themselves.
        
             | Rastonbury wrote:
             | How do valuable usernames 'become available'? Like the
             | person deletes their account?
        
               | FDSGSG wrote:
               | People deleting their accounts, or trying to sell their
               | usernames and messing up the transfer.
        
             | vanusa wrote:
             | If you could post before / after screenshots showing proof
             | of this theft somewhere - along with the real-world names
             | of these employees -- that might get a lot of eyeballs.
        
             | pshc wrote:
             | I can understand the company pulling usernames from an
             | automated name squatter... but I wonder if this happens to
             | fully established accounts too?
        
               | FDSGSG wrote:
               | Well, I tracked the previous UIDs and saw a lot of names
               | that weren't squatted getting released and shortly after
               | ending up with Instagram employees.
               | 
               | E: Oh yeah, there was also the whole "trademarking" thing
               | that was used to steal generic names from active accounts
               | using obviously invalid trademarks.
               | https://www.vice.com/en/article/zma3w4/scammers-fake-
               | tradema...
        
             | Inityx wrote:
             | Wow that's a shitty thing to do
        
               | FDSGSG wrote:
               | Meh, it's their site. It's just weird that they don't
               | seem to have any controls around this.
        
               | edm0nd wrote:
               | Dont hate the player, hate the game.
        
               | stunt wrote:
               | This is not kind of game that they're forced to play. So
               | hate both.
        
         | hurril wrote:
         | Should be easy enough to post a list of stolen accounts
         | someplace public.
        
       | JSONderulo wrote:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/technology/instagram-hand...
       | 
       | Her Instagram Handle Was 'Metaverse.' Last Month, It Vanished.
        
         | slater wrote:
         | And then she got it back.
        
       | edm0nd wrote:
       | You should tie your IG account to a Google Voice number instead
       | of a your cell that way it cant be SIM swapped.
        
       | leeroyjenkins11 wrote:
       | Ok, so I had a similar situation. What it was is that I signed up
       | for insta pre Facebook merger. Then I connected my Facebook
       | account to insta. So my old username password combo were
       | compromised because I re used them when I was a moron when I was
       | younger. So someone gained access via the original Instagram
       | password and username, changes my email. Then I would login via
       | Facebook and have access at the same time. The different geo
       | locations and unusual activity caused my account to be locked
       | periodically. When they unlocked it I logged in quick, changed
       | the email address and password on the account on the Instagram
       | side and enabled 2 factor and haven't had an issue since.
        
       | iKlsR wrote:
       | I'd auction and sell it and be done with the headache personally.
       | It's likely one day your meta well will dry up and that will be
       | it, years of back and forth to see the handle gone and promoting
       | crypto eventually or some crap.
        
         | gaws wrote:
         | > I'd auction and sell it
         | 
         | Where could you even do this?
        
           | Jamie9912 wrote:
           | I believe there's a website called ogusers, I can't
           | personally vouch for it, but I've heard from friends that's
           | what they use
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | leftpass wrote:
         | Many companies forbid the sale of usernames in their terms of
         | service, so an attempt to auction it off could result in it
         | being revoked. Generally, when sales of usernames do happen,
         | it's in private so there's little reason to take action... it's
         | why there's no reputable marketplace for usernames.
        
         | tclancy wrote:
         | This is what a friend did in the exact same situation. He just
         | moved into the house he built with the dough. Life is weird
         | now.
        
       | barbazoo wrote:
       | Someone at Facebook stealing your domain is quite an accusation.
       | Assuming your domain was similar to your username/IG handle,
       | wouldn't it be more likely to be people wanting your "china"
       | domain for spam/malware/propaganda/etc?
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | Publicly pondering a theory is an accusation now?
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | It read to me like that, yes.
        
         | klohto wrote:
         | Not really. It already happened several times since short
         | usernames go for crazy amounts.
        
         | jmnicolas wrote:
         | > Someone at Facebook stealing your domain is quite an
         | accusation.
         | 
         | NSA employees do it, why would META employees would be better
         | than the average?
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | I wouldn't count a NSA employee as "average", I'd assume they
           | have access to tools the "average" doesn't have. Comparing
           | that to someone at Facebook just doesn't make sense.
        
             | stunt wrote:
             | I guess he didn't meant the guy from marketing. But mods
             | and customer support people do have admin access over
             | accounts.
        
             | cruelty2 wrote:
        
         | china wrote:
         | I think the stealing of my domain was a bit of social
         | engineering by a hacker (not somebody at FB).
         | 
         | Now, my account gets taken without any noticeable trace on my
         | end. No security emails, no suspicious login attempts, nada...
        
           | andkon wrote:
           | Contra the above dude, I don't think it's all that strange
           | for Facebook employees to profit directly off of their access
           | to these systems. See this article about how employees charge
           | for verifications: https://mashable.com/article/instagram-
           | verification-paid-bla...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | gecko39 wrote:
       | I had a two letter name which got hacked. I called in a favor
       | from a friend of a friend at instagram/FB and got it back.. then
       | it happened again and I didn't want to ask the favor again. IIRC
       | they did not yet have 2FA even though I asked for it ( I was
       | assuming it would happen again and it did. )
        
       | docdeek wrote:
       | If your IG handle is the same as your HN handle, could it be some
       | very motivated people from that country's bureaucracy looking to
       | take that handle for the state?
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | Likely a phone call is all it would take and Meta would happily
         | hand it over.
        
           | Closi wrote:
           | Assuming that China itself is trying to capture it, and not a
           | rogue state that still wants to use the username for
           | political means.
        
           | cryptoz wrote:
           | Instagram stole @sussexroyal from a real user, and gave it to
           | some entitled "royals" who used the account for like a year
           | before dropping it. So annoying how your handle isn't your
           | handle, it's the company's, and they will steal your handle
           | at a whim.
           | 
           | I never even figured out why the "Royals" wanted specifically
           | @sussexroyal or whatever it was so _badly_. The Royals can 't
           | even be like the rest of us and pick a handle that is
           | available, they have to be like "well no we deserve this one
           | even though someone has it already"
        
             | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
             | > So annoying how your handle isn't your handle, it's the
             | companies, and they will steal your handle at a whim.
             | 
             | You don't own digital assets in any sense (excepting
             | crypto, which is a whole other set of problems), at best
             | you have a contract with some rights of use.
        
               | adventured wrote:
               | > You don't own digital assets in any sense
               | 
               | One of the largest classes of digital assets are personal
               | files on individual phones and other personal computers.
               | So yes, sometimes you do very clearly own digital assets
               | (and no, a link about one time where some government
               | broke the law and stole someone's files doesn't refute
               | that).
               | 
               | Your personal photos on your PC are digital, they're a
               | digital asset, and you do own them. No contract
               | necessary. The same is true for all sorts of other types
               | of personal digital files you might hold as personal
               | property, from spreadsheets to backup email records to
               | pdf files of contracts and on it goes.
        
       | zemnmez wrote:
       | I would look at your email forwarding filters. It's common to see
       | compromises with this pattern where the email for your account
       | was compromised and all the email is being forwarded to an
       | attacker.
        
         | waschl wrote:
         | This! Have seen this personally in multiple friend's mail
         | accounts. This way it is "surviving" password changes, 2FA
         | changes etc
        
       | edm0nd wrote:
       | instagramz.com is a legit domain owned by Facebook
        
         | junon wrote:
         | Sure looks like it, nameservers point there. Seems a
         | Facebook\b\b\bMeta employee did this to you OP.
        
       | theginger wrote:
       | If you are using the nickname china and have registered it a lot
       | of places, even if you are completely non political and in no way
       | associated with the country China, I can imagine the existence of
       | these accounts outside of the governments control is a risk the
       | government will be willing to spend millions trying to get rid
       | of. I'm not sure you can fight that, at least not by yourself.
        
       | kasra85 wrote:
       | On top of all security measures, Meta, Google and other big tech
       | that offer Auth-as-a-service need to offer paid service to
       | reclaim an account. I am sure people would be happy to pay to
       | talk to a real human and take back their account.
        
       | skyzyx wrote:
       | This happened to me several years ago. My account got locked out
       | and I had no way to contact a human to get it back.
        
         | rootsudo wrote:
         | Same, I was going to pen something to instagram legal and such.
        
       | savolai wrote:
       | My account seems to have gotten hijacked too. Someone has
       | (apparently) posted something that's against community standards
       | in my profile, as a consequence of which FB has disabled my
       | account and says if I don't appeal in 30 days, the account will
       | be disabled.
       | 
       | The strange thing is when I try to appeal I get this page.
       | 
       | "Security check To confirm your identity, we will text a
       | confirmation code to your phone."
       | 
       | I select my phone number, and receive the right SMS, but it says
       | 
       | "Error Sending SMS Could not send confirmation SMS. Please check
       | the phone number and try again."
       | 
       | So I cannot actually enter the code.
       | 
       | I also have 2FA enabled and this doesn't seem to have been
       | breached.
       | 
       | On deviced that are still logged in I see them telling me I have
       | posted something that is in typical photos grid format, but they
       | don't show me what the photos were. When I press the button to
       | request review, it does nothing.
       | 
       | <https://savolai.net/uncategorized-en/banned-from-facebook-an...>
        
       | GenerocUsername wrote:
        
       | pkrotich wrote:
       | Your situation is apparently common nowadays with OG usernames
       | and can get very dangerous. I had no idea this was a thing until
       | I listened to an episode on Darknet Diaries [0] recently.
       | 
       | In the old days, I remember people going after short domains in
       | the same manner. ICANN ended up adding locking (auth codes) -
       | perhaps IG and other social sites can learn from it.
       | 
       | Be safe!
       | 
       | [0]https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/106/
        
         | JSONderulo wrote:
         | Halfway through this pod. This is terrifying.
        
         | china wrote:
         | I'll have to listen!
        
         | gkoberger wrote:
         | Here's another podcast episode about it, and I remember it
         | being really really good. They actually befriend a scammer who
         | is pretty open about how it works:
         | 
         | https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/v4he6k
        
           | Apreche wrote:
           | TL;DR: The only methods discussed in this episode are SIM
           | swapping and password guessing. Neither of which are relevant
           | for OP. Unless OP is lying, there must be some other method
           | used.
        
         | heurisko wrote:
         | I'm not up-to-date with what OG means. Apparently OG "original
         | gangster" usernames refer to common words such as "@Miracle",
         | that were registered by early adopters.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/style/instagram-account-f...
        
           | emptybottle wrote:
           | Can be simply read as OriGinal
        
           | edoceo wrote:
           | Or that guy @slack on Twitter. Or @gusto on same
        
             | wyclif wrote:
             | The ultimate example to me is the nissan.com guy.
        
               | edoceo wrote:
               | Oh! How could I forget! Legend! And they had to get
               | NissanUSA.com
        
           | pkrotich wrote:
           | Yes indeed - I thought everyone knew that /s :)
           | 
           | You'll be amazed how much googling I do when having
           | conversations with friends - I wasn't born in the West and
           | things like movie references leave me confused af! But I hide
           | it... thank goodness for urban dictionary
        
             | delgaudm wrote:
             | Looks up "af"
        
               | PostThisTooFast wrote:
        
             | tmaly wrote:
             | urban dictionary can warp your belief in humanity.
        
           | ww520 wrote:
           | OG is the old gang of people, the original early
           | founders/adopters/users.
        
             | caseyohara wrote:
             | OG means "original gangster": https://www.merriam-
             | webster.com/dictionary/OG (see History and Etymology
             | section)
             | 
             | > slang: someone or something that is an original or
             | originator and especially one that is highly respected or
             | regarded
        
               | vineyardmike wrote:
               | Old Gang of people... the original gangster. This doesn't
               | seem wrong. OG directly translates to Original Gangster,
               | but is used to refer to the old crowd, the original
               | people, the firsts, etc. In extreme example, it would not
               | be considered incomprehensible (but perhaps strange) to
               | say something like "native americans are the OG north
               | american inhabitants"... really nothing to do with
               | gangsters.
        
               | hamburglar wrote:
               | Technically true, but... if you say it means "old group"
               | or "original gaggle" or "oldest goat," you should
               | probably expect to be corrected, because it sounds like
               | an implication that that's what OG actually stands for.
        
         | supercoffee wrote:
         | Reply All also did an episode about this a few years back.
         | 
         | https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/v4he6k
         | 
         | tl;dr There's underground marketplaces where shady people buy
         | and sell OG usernames for money, which creates an incentive for
         | shady people to steal them from the original owners.
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | How is my username made in the last 4 years different from an
           | OG username?
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | OG names are names that are (and always were) in high
             | demand, and therefore were quickly taken. The fact that
             | your name was still available means that it wasn't in high
             | demand. OG names are being pilfered because they are in
             | high demand and therefore highly valuable.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | Because all the good obvious ones are already taken. Simple
             | ones like "kevin" or "a". Unless your name is super unique,
             | your username from the last 4 years has some sort of quirky
             | thing, like a weird spelling with extra letters or numbers
             | to get around that.
        
             | pkrotich wrote:
             | It's like trying to register a .com domain - OG ones (short
             | 2-4 letters) are only available in the aftermarket, and
             | only if you have millions. You end up with along-ish name
             | that's also taken - so end up with domainhq or .io or
             | whatever is popular now.
        
           | pkrotich wrote:
           | Perhaps incentives don't line up... but I'm wondering if
           | social media sites like IG should make renting out usernames
           | a thing - obviously there's a market for it. If I'm taking
           | social media hiatus, for example, I wouldn't mind getting
           | paid while away.
        
             | malux85 wrote:
             | Sooooo how does that work? I rent your username while
             | you're on holiday for a month and then spam your followers
             | with crypto scams and viagra ads?
             | 
             | Or they decouple followers from the username so the
             | username becomes a transient thing, which then gets
             | ignored, and becomes worthless?
        
               | pkrotich wrote:
               | I prefaced it with perhaps incentives don't necessarily
               | line up... maybe there's a clever way to go about it. I
               | was thinking it will be pre-approved category of
               | content... there's already such model with sponsored
               | content influencers post.
        
               | pmlnr wrote:
               | That is basically how domains work, but there are grace
               | periods for recovery.
        
       | Cypher wrote:
       | Plot twist, you are the hacker
        
         | ct0 wrote:
         | This is a honeypot for new hacking ideas, right?
        
       | jsnell wrote:
       | What devices are you using the account on? If it's on a desktop
       | browser, my assumption would be that you've got malware. That
       | allows them to trivially steal the session cookies, steal the
       | passwords the next time you log in, steal any device
       | identification cookies that are used to control not using 2FA on
       | logins from trusted devices / sending new device notifcations,
       | and also hijack your recovery and notification email address.
       | 
       | If you're only using this via the app from a mobile device, then
       | malware is an unlikely explanation though.
       | 
       | (Why are you regularly changing the password anyway? What's the
       | threat model you're trying to guard against?)
        
         | china wrote:
         | 99% of the time I am on an iPhone, the other 1% (which is
         | generally right after I have been hacked) is on a fully updated
         | MacOS install.
        
           | jakub_g wrote:
           | Any browser extensions installed?
        
       | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
       | > My current theory is there is some employee at Meta that's
       | ultimately stealing the account.
       | 
       | This was my first thought given the e-mail address change.
       | Someone e.g. bribing a support person.
       | 
       | My (uninformed) guess would be that given that you got the
       | account back, this probably got escalated, someone looked at it,
       | fixed it, and hopefully got the criminal support person's access
       | disabled, until the next one gets bribed...
        
       | grouphugs wrote:
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-28 23:02 UTC)