[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Remotely helping elderly parents?
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Ask HN: Remotely helping elderly parents?
I want to help my elderly parents with their computer, but as I
live far away, this needs to be done remotely (general stuff,
paying bills, etc..) I've seen some solutions, such as Team
viewer. However I'm bit concerned about the security side. If you
have same situation, what is your solution?
Author : a4f00
Score : 39 points
Date : 2021-12-25 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
| mcshicks wrote:
| Not exactly the same problem, but my wife has been unable to
| visit my elderly mother in law who lives alone in a different
| country because of covid. My mother in law has problems from time
| to time with email, skype, etc. We switched to zoom because my
| mother in law can share the screen and we can move the mouse,
| type etc. We were lucky in that we had an acquaintance we trusted
| in the same town that could install it. But the basic thing is
| doing a video call a few times a week so they keep in practice
| and have a cordless phone or cell phone they can use to talk them
| through getting zoom connected in the first place if they have
| troubles. It's not quite a slick as solutions like team viewer
| but I think my mother in law would not be comfortable with us
| remote connecting anyway. Good Luck!
| SanchoPanda wrote:
| In addition to the screen sharing, numerous good tools are
| already mentioned, make sure you have a copy of the same OS
| available to you as you help.
|
| Experimenting with other people having to do some of the steps
| (eg elevated permissions) is extremely tedious and far slower
| than you doing it on your own and then just telling them the
| correct answer which just magically works as far they are
| concerned. This also tends to be less stressful for everybody
| involved.
|
| For windows and Android, VMs are the right tool as you can get
| the exact version right. iDevice VMs are possible but not worth
| it, a physical device is easiest. Fortunately even fairly old
| hardware runs the on-the-run OS version.
|
| edit: clarity in second sentence
| zoomablemind wrote:
| > ...make sure you have a copy of the same OS available to you
| as you help.
|
| Hard to overemphasize this aspect. I would even add this to the
| localization level, as some menus and even keymaps differences
| could turn a simple task into madness!
|
| Also, have limitless patience and wisdom to postpone some
| stubborn task for next, hopefully more relaxed time. Better yet
| set things up in person, if possible ahead of time, to avoid
| all the unnecessary annoyance.
|
| This all assumes the receiving side indeed wants this type of
| assistance, as too often people in age may prefer to rely upon
| their time-provem and familiar ways to deal with tasks.
| znpy wrote:
| If you can, consider replacing tbeir computer with something else
| completely.
|
| If they use a desktop computer, replace it with a decommissioned
| desktop server or a workstation with ipmi/idrac/iLO: you can do
| most remote management through it (including power cycle and os
| install/reinstall).
|
| You can password-protect access to it and you'll have to setup a
| vpn connection to be able to access it.
|
| It's really the bes you can do, albeit a bit expensive.
| zoomablemind wrote:
| Depends on the desired degree of help and autonomy.
|
| Not exact same situation, but the solution was along the lines of
| setting things up for the remote desktop.
|
| First I configured the router for remote access. This step was
| the least secure. The objective was to set up port-forwarding for
| SSH. Once the tunnel is configured, the remote admin acccess on
| the router is no longer needed.
|
| Then set up an SSH server the and remote desktop. In my case the
| remote OS was Ubuntu, so it was relatively straightforward, but
| did involve some typing/copypasting.
|
| Once the remote desktop was up, the rest is just use it on-demand
| as needed.
|
| This approach could likely be made more simpler, but the router
| part may still be needed, and in my experience this was the most
| difficult and critical task to clear remotely.
| CJefferson wrote:
| Team Viewer is the best option I'm aware of. What security issues
| are you worried about? No remote system will be perfect, but
| anything put together yourself is (I suspect) much more likely to
| break than TeamViewer.
|
| Consider having back up options -- if they have an iPhone or
| tablet, remember they can always point the computer at the screen
| as a last minute option.
| bener wrote:
| I would suggest keeping it simple and using Windows 10's built
| in Quick Assist app. They just click it to open and put in the
| code you give them.
| appliedml wrote:
| I've been using Chrome Remote Desktop with my parents. Takes a
| bit to install but once they have it, they just click on the
| Remote Desktop in Chrome, give you the code, accept the
| connection and you are in. For iOS devices - a FaceTime call you
| can now share screen (I think its only iOS 15) and its much
| easier to tell them where to click to troubleshoot. Both
| solutions have been working really well for me recently.
| fy20 wrote:
| Chrome Remote Desktop is what I'd recommend too. If they
| already have Chrome it should automatically install the rest
| (with a confirmation) when they try to share the screen.
| orev wrote:
| Screen Connect/ConnectWise Control also has a free tier that lets
| you have a few nodes joined.
| jmarcher wrote:
| Might be a bit too much, but depending on their autonomy level,
| if they grant you Power of Attorney (PoA), you can do manage
| everything without involving any technical solution.
|
| Technical solution wise, sharing credentials via 1password or
| bitwarden is probably the most straightforward approach IMHO.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Chrome remote desktop works well.
|
| I spent too many times on the phone hearing complaints like "it
| just put up a error message that said 'no'" etc that this is much
| easier. No more asking what the error _actually_ said etc.
|
| Reliable, and I mostly trust (for better or worse) google to get
| security right.
| smockman36 wrote:
| If helping aging adults is something you are passionate about, we
| are helping older people age in place with grace and dignity. I'm
| an engineer here and am happy to answer any questions and/or give
| a referral if you are interested in applying!
|
| https://www.joinhonor.com/meet/engineering
| octagons wrote:
| I'm genuinely interested in advocating for the elderly in tech.
| Do you have any insights on the challenges Honor faces or has
| overcome? Especially in regards to respecting the real-
| world/digital privacy (let alone HIPAA!) while engineering a
| solution with technology.
| ioman wrote:
| I was quite happy for a time helping my mom by using GoToMyPC.
| Then they got purchased by private equity (I think) and tripled
| their prices while adding spammy offers every time you logged in.
|
| Now I use Splashtop.
| billconan wrote:
| there used to be many options. But team viewer seems to be the
| only reliable choice I found.
|
| I feel that team viewer's pricing is a bit expensive for this use
| case.
| goldcd wrote:
| It's free for personal use.
|
| imho quite a good business model - builds up good-
| will/recognition, and then if anybody is asked what to buy for
| "remote desktop at work", it'll get a mention.
| billconan wrote:
| but their usage detector is buggy.
|
| I only use it to assist my parent and don't really use it
| much. but they will pop up the message and saying they have
| detected business usage with my account. And then disconnect
| after 5 minutes.
| intunderflow wrote:
| I previously used TeamViewer but had issues with them false-
| flagging me as a commercial user and kicking me off constantly.
|
| I've now got a shared google account on my Chromebook and their
| computer, Chrome Remote Desktop is installed on their PC and I
| have the PIN, with that I can just go to remotedesktop.google.com
| (on the shared account) and join their computer whenever they ask
| for help.
|
| I was originally planning to use the system where they generate a
| code first, but they're nowhere near the technical level for that
| to not become a nightmare quickly, so now it's just flat remote
| desktop.
| saool wrote:
| wireguard (or tailscale) + sshd + VNC (macOS screen sharing)
| server bound only to the virtual interface or firewalled.
| basch wrote:
| Agreed. Get all the way on the network, youll be able to
| troubeshoot more things. Having teamviewer with a hardcoded
| password is a good fallback. Have two ways in.
| kpozin wrote:
| For my grandfather, I started with a combination of Chrome Remote
| Desktop's assistance feature and later Windows Quick Assist.
| Windows Quick Assist was easier because the helper needs to sign
| in and type in the one-time code, not the helped.
|
| However, in the end, even walking him through launching Quick
| Assist was too error-prone, so I ended up installing Chrome
| Remote Desktop with a Google account that I controlled and
| enabled remote access, allowing me to connect without requiring
| him to do anything.
| harel wrote:
| Another option is zoom. While screen sharing you can request
| remote control from the other side.
| antisthenes wrote:
| A phone?
| Snuupy wrote:
| Meshcentral, self-hosted.
| JohnHaugeland wrote:
| Your operating system has a secure remote desktop built in. Use
| it.
| cyptus wrote:
| AnyDesk works fine
| jtchang wrote:
| VNC Connect by RealVNC is good. So is remote desktop and/or zoom.
| I'm in the same situation.
| petecooper wrote:
| If you're macOS both sides, iCloud allows screen sharing between
| users (opt-in via System Preferences). I typically trigger this
| from a Messages chat using the Details modal.
| lowdose wrote:
| I gave my mom a Nest Hub en she controls Spotify from Google
| Assistant to Play music on her Sonos. Every piece of hardware she
| bought is hooking in on this ecosystem. My mom has dyslexia thus
| a keyboard input device increases the friction while voice
| removes this entirely.
| meremortals wrote:
| ConnectWise ScreenConnect works great for me and my grandparents
| moksly wrote:
| Our solution was to buy them iPads. From 4-5 visits a year to
| none.
|
| I've never used a chromebook, but I imagine it would work as
| well.
| _rutinerad wrote:
| And with iOS >15.1 you can also use screen sharing if
| necessary.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I switched all the old people in my family to iOS/macOS almost
| 8 years ago or so, and tech support time went down to zero.
|
| Troubleshooting is usually just turn it off and on or take it
| to Apple store and get it fixed or get a new one. The new
| screen sharing feature is nice too because now you can show
| them where items in the menus are and whatnot.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| Almost all of my close family is on Apple as well.
|
| For the others, unless they're really close or really
| desperate, I tell them that I haven't used Windows in many
| years (which is pretty much true, other than testing sites
| and so on to make sure they work in Windows browsers), so I
| can't really give them good advice.
|
| There's one relative that uses Linux, but he doesn't
| generally need my help. Heh.
| jfk13 wrote:
| When the iPad appeared, I thought it'd be a great option for my
| elderly and non-computer-savvy father; but the whole touch-
| screen thing turns out not to work well for him. Shaky,
| rheumatic fingers too often trigger the wrong thing and throw
| him into some unexpected state; or a second (or third) finger
| inadvertently touches the screen and completely changes the
| behavior of the device.
|
| I thought the direct-manipulation interface would work for him,
| but experience says that in his case a traditional mouse
| pointer and an explicit "click" action gives less trouble.
|
| YMMV, of course.
| hogFeast wrote:
| Ah, I can see you are real expert. I look after two elderly
| people, probably the biggest problem that they have is with
| applications that change state based on how you touch it.
| Even something as simple as picking up a call in Android is
| totally unintuitive (if anything, Android has got
| worse...tbh, I barely understand the incantations that one
| has to perform to do things on there now). Another big one is
| hidden menus, they don't understand that you have to click
| the burger for this hidden menu or that an arrow on the
| button means you can click through (Apple is actually better
| in how they structure menus).
|
| I understand why these products have been designed this way
| but I don't think the people who make them understand how
| badly they are designed for some people. I am a web dev and,
| imo, a lot of this comes from ways to make your app "look
| cool" on mobile. Add some buttons, make your app a bit longer
| vertically...it isn't the end of the world.
|
| I will say though, they find tablets far easier than
| computers. Tablets present a very simple interface of things
| to do. Computers seem more complicated (ironically, you see
| this with kids today even young adults in their early
| 20s...they have no idea how computers actually work, and
| often don't understand anything beyond...click this, and app
| opens). Both hate phones, they can use them but they feel
| uncomfortable using them.
|
| On the OP, you just have to take stuff over. If you are
| paying bills or whatever, you should just do it yourself. It
| will save you time.
| akeck wrote:
| We're in the same situation, but went with a pack of simple
| styluses instead of switching platforms. Working ok so far,
| arthritis definitely gets in the way of the iPad solution.
| That being said, we're definitely avoiding a pile of family
| tech support because of the iPad.
| anotherevan wrote:
| I use UltraVNC Single-Click to help my dad. It just sits as a
| short-cut on his desktop that he can double-click to start. I
| also used it occasionally with clients back in my freelancing
| days.
|
| Some of the things I liked about it are:
|
| - Single, small exe for them to download and run.
|
| - All the port-forwarding and such is done on my side, no having
| to configure their router.
|
| - They have to initiate it. I can't connect to their computer
| (and spy) even if I wanted to. I like ensuring that level of
| autonomy as a minimum.
|
| Fortunately, the UltraVNC viewer works under WINE, so I can run
| that in listening mode on my Linux PC, no problems.
|
| https://uvnc.com/addons/singleclick.html
| nojito wrote:
| iOS and shareplay is easily the best solution to help friends and
| family.
| csdreamer7 wrote:
| ChrisLAS/Linux Unplugged/Jupiter Broadcasting and the AskNoah
| show do talk about remote IT support. Like them, I prefer open
| source solutions.
|
| RustDesk (yes, remote IT software written in Rust) is one option
| I hear a lot about.
|
| https://rustdesk.com/
| digitallyfree wrote:
| Since you are considered about security, I recommend setting up a
| VPN (some routers support it, or you can run it on a SBC or old
| machine). It's a bit of a learning curve but it's a clean and
| secure solution in that the VPN provides the main line of defense
| - vs. securing individual endpoints if you expose their ports to
| the public internet.
|
| The VPN will let you RDP or SSH/VNC into their machines for
| remote manitenance. Since it gives you access to their entire
| LAN, this has the bonus of you being able to access and configure
| other devices like security cameras/etc.
|
| If security is less of a priority there are simpler options other
| commenters have discussed like Chrome RD, Teamviewer, etc.
| goldcd wrote:
| Team Viewer's been my go-to for years (decades?) and always
| appreciated their free for personal use.
|
| In they're on Win10, there's "Quick Assist" baked in - which
| removed the hurdle of getting them to download and install
| something, before you can see exactly what they're doing.
| jasonhadi wrote:
| I've used https://www.copilot.com/ and works well for me. Used to
| be a Fog Creek Software product.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Assuming your parents run Windows, the built in remote assistance
| in Windows works pretty seamlessly. I think it's called Quick
| Assist in Win10+. It's basically RDP but with an extra server at
| Microsoft's side to help set up the connection. No need to
| configure static IPs and all that, just have them open the quick
| assist app and follow the instructions.
| https://youtu.be/bR8iVSrClZw
|
| It's the same principle as Teamviewer (code and password, though
| you need a login to an MS account I think? Most people already
| have that on Windows anyway, willingly or unwillingly), except
| using the software and servers that Windows already uses.
| don-code wrote:
| I know this is a difficult question to ask, but have you
| considered taking some of those responsibilities on yourself? It
| may be more sustainable, long term: computers are always
| changing, and computers are always taking more responsibilities
| on themselves (I just bought my parents a robot vacuum that you
| start and stop through your phone, for instance). You may be much
| better equipped to respond to those changes than they are, even
| with your help.
| tgv wrote:
| That's what my father, an octogenarian himself, does for some
| of his still living siblings: he's got their authorization to
| run their bank accounts, tax declarations, etc. The others
| don't even have a computer, or don't know how to operate it
| sufficiently.
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(page generated 2021-12-25 23:01 UTC)