[HN Gopher] Beware of a New Amazon Token Crypto Scam
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       Beware of a New Amazon Token Crypto Scam
        
       Author : saturn5k
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2021-12-23 19:51 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.avast.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.avast.com)
        
       | Wronnay wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20211220051443/https://blog.avas...
        
       | jrockway wrote:
       | What does the conversion rate end up looking like for these
       | scams? Pretending to be major media outlets and stealing Amazon's
       | branding is a compelling scheme, but the "just transfer some ETH
       | to us" seems like a brick wall that would really stop the average
       | person. People seem wary of typing their credit card number into
       | a website, and with a credit card you can call your bank and say
       | "meh I didn't really want the thing I bought" and get your money
       | back. But people have credit cards and know that; with ETH, they
       | probably don't have any laying around. So that seems like it
       | would kill these scams dead.
       | 
       | Maybe the flow for buying ETH is really simple, and these sellers
       | aren't clear that every transaction is irrevocable? So people
       | think they can reverse the transaction later, and are left
       | holding the bag when they get scammed? Or, maybe these scams have
       | such wide appeal that they rope in enough victims that a 99.9%
       | bounce rate on the payment page is still worthwhile?
        
         | nope96 wrote:
         | I would have thought the REAL scam would be to have an actual
         | token - and get crypto holders to buy that token, fully knowing
         | it is a scam - but thinking they can buy in low early & dump it
         | in a week on the victims.
        
           | Beltiras wrote:
           | You mean like Dogecoin?
        
         | mrorbitman wrote:
         | My parents reached out asking me to help them figure out how to
         | buy this Amazon crypto. They've recently become interested in
         | crypto and so I've been teaching them how it works and how to
         | use it.
         | 
         | Luckily I hadn't taught them anything about eth except how to
         | buy it and how to self-custody it yet.
         | 
         | After seeing how easily they were scammed into believing this
         | was real, I am recommending they steer clear of eth entirely
         | and just stick to learning about bitcoin. Too many (believable)
         | scams on smart contract chains.
         | 
         | The only btc scams I've seen are along the lines of "Send me
         | your btc and I'll double it back for you!" which is obvious
         | even for them.
        
           | JackFr wrote:
           | You know, other than the Bitcoin itself.
        
           | nope96 wrote:
           | > steer clear of eth entirely and just stick to learning
           | about bitcoin
           | 
           | Although even that isn't so clear cut - you have to
           | educate/warn about Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin SV,
           | and so on.
        
             | mrorbitman wrote:
             | True. I only told them how to use CashApp which only sells
             | bitcoin.
        
               | alostpuppy wrote:
               | That's a good call. Any app that has a curated list of
               | tokens really.
        
         | bener wrote:
         | I feel like they would do rather well - there are so many new
         | crypto "projects" and so many people "investing" in them.
         | Investing in new coins using Eth for purchasing is very
         | normalised in those circles, and people are super hungry for
         | opportunities to enter an ICO.
         | 
         | Most of the people (or people with bots) making any sort of
         | money with these new coins are getting in on the ICO and
         | dumping their coins during the initial peak after public
         | release. The whole thing is like a high frequency pump and
         | dump, and there are large profits to be had for the few who can
         | pull it off, which makes buyers particularly rushed.
         | 
         | The Binance Smart Chain has even more of this going on, it's
         | madness. It's like the wild west of defi.
        
           | mrorbitman wrote:
           | Yeah, eth is bad enough, but BSC and Solana are where the
           | truly depraved and desperate get-rich-quick victims are.
           | Absolutely brutal.
        
       | mdoms wrote:
       | I have a special immunity to crypto scams. I simply never have
       | and never will purchase any kind of crypto "currency" until
       | someone can articulate, at a bare minimum, one advantage it
       | confers to me over and above "normal" currency in day to day
       | usage. Bonus points if that benefit even comes close to
       | offsetting the environmental carnage the ecosystem wreaks.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cmckn wrote:
         | I think crypto folks generally consider the (possibly) getting
         | rich part to be the killer feature.
        
           | dehrmann wrote:
           | Could just buy lotto tickets or put $10k on 00. At least
           | those are regulated.
        
           | masterof0 wrote:
           | ^^ this, I'm not a crypto maxi, but for what I have seen so
           | far, the main point of all of those coins, is to get earlier,
           | and hope that someone *cough* Elon *cough* pump it , so we
           | can finally escape the rat race.
        
         | N00bN00b wrote:
         | I've been using it for well over 10 years now.
         | 
         | Sometimes I want to spend money on things that I think are
         | morally right, but the credit card companies/paypal won't let
         | me buy.
         | 
         | You can search for lists. I'm doing things that aren't even on
         | most lists (things like buying medication - not drugs - at a
         | discount). A good consumer will never be in that situation,
         | they'll stick to the paths well traveled and stick to whatever
         | laws they happen to think exist and apply to them (often
         | without actually checking those laws or applying civil
         | disobedience to laws they don't agree with).
         | 
         | An independent mind will sooner or later get into situations of
         | wanting to do things that the established corporations don't
         | want you to do and then you'll find out how little you can
         | actually do with your corporate approved currency.
        
         | psychlops wrote:
         | That immunity will protect you from using all sorts of
         | investment losses from electric cars to typewriters. Until they
         | become mainstream or fail.
        
         | knicholes wrote:
         | Lower fees than wiring money internationally.
        
           | tppiotrowski wrote:
           | Wise handily beats BTC/ETH fees
        
             | chewyland wrote:
             | Cost me 28 cents to wire my BMW dealer the full cost of my
             | brand new BMW GS. I used Wise.
             | 
             | I'm in BG.
        
               | notch656a wrote:
               | More or less a wash with litecoin or monero then, both of
               | which have transaction fees in the single digit of
               | pennies.
               | 
               | BTW, you have my jealousy on the bike. Congrats :)
        
             | vmception wrote:
             | wait till you read their terms of service of prohibited
             | kinds of business, and that's just at the corporate level
             | that has nothing to do with countries of operation.
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | I got one even better! Converting transactions that _would
           | be_ international wires, into domestic wires which definitely
           | will occur same day, circumventing multiple levels of
           | potential scrutiny and operator error.
           | 
           | There is no way to quantify how much this has happened using
           | crypto assets.
        
           | notch656a wrote:
           | But Wise is almost free for int'l transfer and the unbanked
           | can go fuck themselves! /s
        
         | notch656a wrote:
         | It needn't provide an advantage in day-to-day usage, just some
         | niche advantage that works at least once.
         | 
         | For instance, buying metal bullion from a major online vendor
         | such as APMEX, you can avoid credit card fees or long wait for
         | a check/ACH/wire(faster than previous two but still takes
         | hours) to clear by paying in crypto. It's basically <30min
         | clearing for any arbitrary large amount. The closest you can
         | get to that without crypto through most major bullion vendors
         | is a wire, which depending on your bank is anywhere from free
         | (rare) to $25+. Sometimes the crypto fees are waived, other
         | times they're merely much closer to check price than credit
         | price.
        
           | dehrmann wrote:
           | If you're buying physical metal and can wait a few days for
           | it to ship, you can wait a day for the ACH payment to clear.
           | Bitcoin is also very volatile, so you can end up losing out
           | on the spread, but not notice it.
        
             | notch656a wrote:
             | > you can wait a day for the ACH payment to clear.
             | 
             | It adds an additional 1-2 days at least to shipping. Do you
             | enjoy having your money gone additional time without any
             | underlying asset in hand, adding to your counterparty risk?
             | This is one of the reasons why Amazon delivery logistics
             | has succeeded, consumers LIKE to have their goods faster.
             | You don't think it's valid that some people use crypto to
             | get their goods a day or two sooner for in many cases
             | essentially the same price (or if they already had crypto,
             | cheaper because they didn't have to convert back to fiat
             | themselves).
             | 
             | >Bitcoin is also very volatile, so you can end up losing
             | out on the spread, but not notice it.
             | 
             | The price in BTC(or LTC, BCH, etc) is locked for 15 minutes
             | when you check out. If BTC or whatever you're using gains
             | value you could merely choose not to execute the trade;
             | when I missed the window there was no penalty it just
             | cancelled the invoice. There's no way you can possibly have
             | an unexpected loss. If you have fiat on an exchange and you
             | needed crypto, you can choose to buy it right then in that
             | 15 minute window to make sure your price is locked in.
        
         | rabite wrote:
         | the US effectively doubled the supply of normal currency in the
         | past year, other currencies have followed suit. the only thing
         | that has ever doubled in a year about bitcoin is the difficulty
         | of finding new bitcoin.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | > These malicious advertisements rely on people's trust in the
       | Amazon brand and desire to get in early on cryptocurrency initial
       | coin offerings (ICOs).
       | 
       | Gosh. I'm doubly-lucky: I don't trust the Amazon brand further
       | than the end of my nose, and I haven't the slightest interest in
       | ICOs. I don't trust Avast either, but I can't remember why.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Please don't post low-information, high-indignation comments to
         | HN. They're flamebait, and inevitably point discussions in less
         | interesting, predictable, and nasty directions.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | akiselev wrote:
         | _> I don 't trust Avast either, but I can't remember why. _
         | 
         | Something about the cure being worse than the disease
        
       | gentleman11 wrote:
       | Avast is famous for bundling spyware into their antivirus
       | products
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-23 23:01 UTC)