[HN Gopher] The Dreamcast Legacy
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Dreamcast Legacy
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2021-12-22 15:05 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hackaday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hackaday.com)
        
       | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
       | One game I haven't seen mentioned here was Ikaruga. It was a top
       | down shooter from Japan. Like many shooters, you fought your way
       | through hordes of enemies and boss battles. You of course could
       | upgrade your arsenal along the way by collecting powerups. One
       | innovative gameplay mechanic was the firing mode: you would fire
       | either white or black bullets. When you were firing white
       | bullets, white enemy bullets and projectiles could not harm you.
       | The reverse was also true.
       | 
       | Really fun game!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nanna wrote:
         | Ikaruga was great, however it was effectively Treasure's sequel
         | to its imo greatest game, Radiant Silvergun for the Sega
         | Saturn, which sadly never made it out of Japan. Best game of
         | the 32bit generation, maybe best bullet hell ever.
         | 
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wue0F5YyeEQ
        
       | yob28 wrote:
        
       | toywinder wrote:
       | The timelines and competing consoles presented in the article are
       | all out of order. I get the overall point they were trying to
       | make, but that was a painful read.
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | I never liked the Dreamcast for no other reason than petty
       | bitterness from having purchased a Saturn.
        
       | b15h0p wrote:
       | The article states that the Dreamcast "fell out of the public eye
       | as the Nintendo 64 was released". Am I missing something here? As
       | far as I know the N64 was released more than two years before the
       | Dreamcast's release. The Dreamcast always felt like it belonged
       | to the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube console generation more than the PS1/N64
       | generation, although it was released in between generations.
       | 
       | Release dates:                 * PlayStation 1: '94/'95       *
       | N64: '96       * Dreamcast: '98/'99       * PlayStation 2: 2000
       | * XBox: 2001       * GameCube: 2001
        
         | yob28 wrote:
        
         | arprocter wrote:
         | Article also seems confused that the NES competed against the
         | Genesis - the Master System was Sega's 8-bit console; and no
         | mention of the 32X or Sega/Mega CD either
         | 
         | iirc a big selling point of the PS2 was it could play DVDs,
         | whereas the Dreamcast couldn't
        
           | vikingerik wrote:
           | The NES did compete against the Genesis. Different technology
           | generations, but they overlapped in the market for more than
           | half of the NES's active lifespan, from 1989 through 1994.
           | There were plenty of comparisons between early Genesis games
           | and later NES games.
        
           | nullstyle wrote:
           | The genesis was available in stores concurrently with the
           | NES, and once it was released the master system didn't get
           | much shelf space at stores anymore. The genesis has nearly
           | around 2 years lead on the SNES if I remember correctly. The
           | NES and Genesis definitely competed.
           | 
           | (source: I remember the store displays)
        
             | icedchai wrote:
             | Yes, I remember this as well. Growing up, late 80's, we had
             | a NES, then in 1989: a Sega Genesis, and also a Turbografx
             | 16. Yes, we were spoiled kids...
        
               | nullstyle wrote:
               | We had to sell half our NES games and pool together
               | Christmas money from 3 brothers to get an open box
               | genesis from the BX. Ah, military brat life :)
        
           | droptablemain wrote:
           | The Mega Drive / Genesis was release to the NA market in
           | 1989, a couple of years before the SNES. So for a time, it
           | was competing with the NES.
           | 
           | But, overall agree that the article has some factual issues.
        
         | Comevius wrote:
         | They confused it with Sega Saturn, that's the one that was
         | pushed under the bus by Nintendo 64 in 1996. Nintendo however
         | was late to the game, the PS1 was already entrenched.
        
           | oso2k wrote:
           | I think OP's sentiment was right. I vividly recall seeing at
           | Christmas time at a Toys R Us dozens and dozens of Saturn
           | boxes next to handful of Dreamcast boxes, next to 2 N64
           | boxes. And I remember talking to the cashier and them
           | complaining that they couldn't sell Saturn and Dreamcast.
           | They expected Sega to go out of business soon. They also
           | remarked that the Dreamcast was being artificially held back
           | to make seem as big a seller as the N64.
        
           | ascagnel_ wrote:
           | If I remember right, the Saturn shipped shortly before the
           | PlayStation, but it was more expensive ($400USD vs $300USD)
           | and shipped in a manner that annoyed most retailers (it was
           | initially exclusive to KB Toys, I believe). The article also
           | didn't go into the add-ons released for the Genesis/Master
           | System (the Sega32X and SegaCD among them), and how Sega's
           | attempts at keeping the G/MS alive instead wore out many
           | console owners.
        
             | laumars wrote:
             | The 32x was released by Sega America and the Saturn by Sega
             | Japan. The two groups couldn't agree on much in that era.
        
               | qqtt wrote:
               | It's easy to use 20/20 hindsight and say failures were a
               | mistake, but at the time, Genesis was selling like
               | bonkers in the USA and was a relative failure in Japan.
               | Sega (both Japan + USA) had to balance the need to
               | generate excitement for a new console in Japan while
               | maintaining a happy Genesis install base in the USA. At
               | the time, the best compromise seemed to be an early
               | launch of Saturn in Japan while giving the USA market a
               | stop-gap next generation experience to current Genesis
               | owners.
               | 
               | The whole point of the 32x project was to help and excite
               | the American market, and it was developed by Sega USA
               | using Saturn components.
               | 
               | Yes, after the fact when it didn't work out, there was
               | much finger pointing and blame games happening, but at
               | the time, the strategy did not seem to ridiculous and
               | there is a universe it could have worked. Sega invested
               | heavily into the 32x to make it successful, including
               | cannabalizing Saturn's only Sonic game to move it to the
               | 32x (Chaotix).
        
             | dleslie wrote:
             | They launched much earlier than expected, before really any
             | meaningful library of games were available. Third party
             | developers were taken completely by surprise by the early
             | launch.
        
               | laumars wrote:
               | It didn't help that the Saturn didn't ship with an SDK
               | and was painful to develop 3D titles on due to being a
               | sprite based machine (3D was effectively transforming
               | sprites. Which caused bugs like breaking alpha blending).
               | 
               | The PlayStation wasn't exactly easy by modern standards
               | either but it was compared to that generation of
               | consoles. For starters it had an SDK. Then there was the
               | lack of storage constraints (unlike with the N64
               | cartridge). And while it didn't have a Z index, at least
               | it's polygons weren't just hack around 2D sprites.
               | 
               | That all said, I do still love my Saturn and N64 more
               | than my PlayStation. This is Tony a rational preference
               | but more just what I enjoy more as a retro gamer. In some
               | ways their faults enhance the console.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | I think I've seen videos saying they somehow
               | overengineered the hardware too, and without libs (as you
               | mention) people struggled to make use of the many
               | processors and couldn't reach goals.
        
               | laumars wrote:
               | It wasn't so much over engineered but more old before
               | it's time. Sega bet on 2D and then retrofitted their
               | console to be 3D after rumours emerged that the
               | PlayStation and N64 were 3D-focused systems.
        
           | qqtt wrote:
           | That might be the case outside Japan, but the Sega Saturn was
           | still relatively successful inside it's home country. Sega
           | Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan. Saturn and Playstation were
           | competing head to head for a while, with the Saturn
           | frequently outselling the Playstation in Japan. The nail in
           | the coffin was Final Fantasy 7 where Playstation took off
           | like a rocketship and never looked back.
        
         | titusjohnson wrote:
         | According to my memory of the time, the Dreamcast launched a
         | bit too early compared to the PS2. The Dreamcast was trying to
         | sell games and systems right when the PS2 marketing engine went
         | into full swing. The marketing hype for PS2 was _huge_ ,
         | everyone I knew was talking about how many millions of pixels
         | it would push, how the multi-core architecture would make
         | everything else obsolete, and of course, how it was backwards
         | compatible with existing libraries.
         | 
         | I knew one guy that had a Dreamcast, everyone else saved their
         | pennies for a PS2 and made do with their existing PS1.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | You touch on a really important point here that I feel is
           | totally underreported: marketing. My friend group all had
           | Saturns or wanted them. I remember it being a big topic for
           | us how there were constantly PlayStation ads everywhere while
           | they were pretty much absent for the Saturn, especially on TV
           | where Saturn ads existed but were terrible and and they were
           | almost never run (this was in Germany). Our own narrative
           | always had been that it was lack of marketing and bad
           | marketing that killed the Saturn.
           | 
           | I'd love to see some actual data on marketing spent in
           | different regions for the consoles.
        
             | xgkickt wrote:
             | There was a rumor that in the UK SEGA pretty much spent
             | their entire Dreamcast marketing budget on the Arsenal
             | sponsorship. Would like to know how close to the truth that
             | was.
        
           | ac2u wrote:
           | I believe the PS2 marketing hype was further bolstered by
           | great initial sales in Japan, because it was a reasonably
           | priced DVD movie player.
           | 
           | https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps2-primarily-used-as-
           | dvd-...
        
             | perardi wrote:
             | Oh I so remember that, and can even find mainstream media
             | articles to back that up.
             | 
             | https://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/26/technology/playstation-2
             | -...
             | 
             | Same thing with the PS3--it was a lot of bang-for-the-buck
             | for Blu-rays when it debuted. _(Not that Blu-ray took the
             | world by storm like DVDs, but still.)_
             | 
             | https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/4/20992215/playstation-3-p
             | s...
        
           | Izkata wrote:
           | Yep, I was that kid who got a Dreamcast for Christmas (my
           | parents' compromise since my brothers and I wanted different
           | systems) and I remember the same about commercials for the
           | PS2 having just started.
        
             | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
             | > Yep, I was that kid who got a Dreamcast for Christmas
             | 
             | There are _dozens_ of us!
        
         | beamatronic wrote:
         | The Sega Dreamcast release date was 9/9/99
        
         | emodendroket wrote:
         | It was absolutely the PS2 that tanked the Dreamcast. Perhaps
         | the author meant Xbox.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | Yeah, Sony's PS2 pre release marketing hype was out of
           | control, and a lot of it was directed at how the Dreamcast
           | wasn't going to be worth it. The CPU of the PS2 was called
           | the "Emotion Engine" with Sony just straight up saying it had
           | the power to emulate the human mind.
        
           | xgkickt wrote:
           | Although the PlayStation 2 had the brute force, from this
           | programmer's perspective the Dreamcast had a certain finesse,
           | largely due to the PowerVR GPU. SEGA's teams were also on a
           | strong creative streak at the time too. Such a shame it
           | didn't pan out.
        
           | rusk wrote:
           | Best selling game console of all time I think. No shame
           | losing to the best.
        
             | timw4mail wrote:
             | It was only the best in terms of hype and sales. Video-
             | quality-wise, it was likely the worst of its generation.
        
         | baochan wrote:
         | That's as far as I read before deciding the author had no idea
         | what they were talking about and closed the window.
        
           | radicalbyte wrote:
           | This; I went from being astonished by Zelda: Ocarina of Time
           | on the N64 to being stunned by Shenmue only a two years later
           | on my Dreamcast. I bought both of them on release.
           | 
           | The Dreamcast was a great machine, I have fond memories of
           | many hours playing Rez, Phantasy Star Online, Sonic
           | Adventure, Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia and Space Channel 5..
        
         | dmicah wrote:
         | I think they probably meant to write GameCube there.
        
           | CameronBanga wrote:
           | This still doesn't make any sense, as Sega discontinued the
           | Dreamcast 6 months before the GameCube even released.
        
       | joeman1000 wrote:
       | The Dreamcast is still special. It never made big waves in
       | Australia, so I bought one secondhand in 2016. My childhood was
       | spent playing the PS2. The Dreamcast library and the whole
       | 'attitude' of the system is quirky and refreshing. Playing titles
       | like Shenmue and Jet Set Radio is still so enjoyable. If they had
       | a 3D GTA on the system I think it could have helped.
        
       | alliao wrote:
       | no mention of Samba de amigo I even ordered the maracas kit from
       | Japan, it worked so well. It used Doppler effect to track
       | distance from sensor to speaker (in your hand) thus identified
       | the height of the controller. You could go as fast as you can
       | without throwing it off, amazing achievement. Really wished
       | they'd re-release it on Nintendo switch, though I suspect the
       | reason is hardware of joycon isn't able to keep up.
        
       | MisterBastahrd wrote:
       | No other console tanked the Dreamcast.
       | 
       | The Dreamcast was fatally wounded as a platform because their DRM
       | was easily bypassed. You didn't even need a special hardware
       | dongle or modification. You could instead straight up download
       | copies of games that were modified to work on the system. No
       | point in supporting a platform that was dominating arcades but
       | whose sales were getting obliterated by piracy at home.
        
         | timw4mail wrote:
         | PS2 marketing killed the Dreamcast.
        
         | VRay wrote:
         | I remember that the Dreamcast was already dead by the time
         | piracy started becoming rampant, at least in the USA where I
         | lived
        
         | vikingerik wrote:
         | As the other reply says, this didn't really happen this way.
         | The Dreamcast was already on its way out after the PS2's launch
         | by the time piracy really started up. Piracy was a footnote,
         | not a cause.
         | 
         | Internet access was one constraining factor. Not everyone in
         | 1999/2000 had broadband to download entire CD images. And an
         | even smaller portion ever knew where to find the piracy methods
         | and content - most of it was on Usenet.
        
       | p0wn wrote:
       | I remember you could copy the games because they had no drm on
       | them. My buddy had a complete collection. What a masterpiece.
        
         | ac2u wrote:
         | So if you had an ISO of a dreamcast game, it is possible to
         | burn it to a CD-R and play it on an unmodified console (when it
         | was first cracked it had to be a boot disc with a swap). The
         | exploit was some sort of a software hijacking of the console's
         | ability to play MIL-CDs which were used for interactive music
         | discs in Japan.
         | 
         | Copying itself from the source discs (GD-ROMs that had their
         | grooves packed closer together than a traditional CD for extra
         | capacity), from what I can remember reading, was primary done
         | via a dreamcast console (perhaps initially it was done via a
         | development kit) and a serial cable or ethernet adapter.
         | 
         | I think over the years more means of doing the GD-ROM copy
         | became available, like firmware overwrites of certain PC
         | drives.
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Games that were bigger than a CD's capacity had to have their
           | textures downsampled and recompressed though. I only point
           | this out as anyone interested in playing DC games they don't
           | have a GD-ROM copy of has a much better option in the form of
           | GDEmu or Terraonion MODE.
        
             | monocasa wrote:
             | It was the videos that were reencoded. Textures didn't add
             | up the same way.
        
               | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
               | I stand corrected.
        
         | fredoralive wrote:
         | It's a bit more complex. Beyond using a bespoke ~1GB GD-ROM
         | format that normal optical drives can't read, the discs did
         | AFAIK have copy protection of the "wobbly track" variety. So
         | even if you have a GD-Recordable drive and media, you couldn't
         | just copy the games. (Although if you have a GD-R drive you
         | almost certainly had the dev tools to run unprotected games
         | anyway).
         | 
         | Unfortunately they wanted a way to add Dreamcast content to
         | music CDs ("MIL-CD"), which led to a massive holes in the
         | security that meant it would happily boot off CD-Rs. I guess
         | they didn't want to tie record companies to Sega's own
         | duplicators so the CDs don't have any direct copy protection.
         | Instead CD programs are "encrypted" (unlike GD-ROM games) and
         | the disc drive turned off after initial load. Naturally the
         | encryption / scrambling was figured out, and people figured out
         | how to turn the drive back on[1]. Thus fun with piracy and
         | homebrew. Late in the production run they removed the MIL-CD
         | stuff entirely, although the vast majority of systems out there
         | would've been built by then.
         | 
         | (Sorry if I've got any details wrong).
         | 
         | [1] Plus a bonus that the boot sector could contain unchecked
         | extra code that made "self booting" pirate games possible.
        
           | moepstar wrote:
           | iirc, the "wobbly track" you mention was the copy protection
           | on the Saturn: http://segabits.com/blog/2016/07/12/sega-
           | saturn-copy-protect...
        
             | monocasa wrote:
             | And they continued to use it in GD-ROM drives AFAIK.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Blundered into a BestBuy early one Sunday, and the Dreamcasts
       | were in a pile by the door at $50 with bags of games included. I
       | then had one, running Crazy Taxi, for years and years.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | Similar here, I picked up mine at a drugstore for $50 along
         | with a pile of discounted games from the rack. I never thought
         | I'd own the thing for 20 years and watch my oldest beat Sonic
         | Adventure at age 6. Watching those credits roll he gave me the
         | most badass look, lol. They still ask to play it from time to
         | time.
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Sonic Adventure holds up surprisingly well in spite of, or
           | perhaps because of, it's surreal voice acting and general
           | jank. Controversial opinion: it's better than Sonic Adventure
           | 2[0], and Big the Cat's story was a nice change of pace.
           | 
           | [0] Even more controversial opinion: Sonic '06 is also better
           | than Sonic Adventure 2.
        
             | pmlamotte wrote:
             | > [0] Even more controversial opinion: Sonic '06 is also
             | better than Sonic Adventure 2.
             | 
             | Having never played either but having watched gameplay of
             | both, I'm very interested in your thoughts on that.
             | 
             | I also agree that Sonic Adventure 1 holds up surprisingly
             | well despite the jank. A lot of Dreamcast era games have a
             | certain aesthetic to them that feels distinctly different
             | from other games. Sega really had some wild ideas and while
             | they didn't always hit they were still exciting because of
             | how fresh and unique they felt. The lack of polish adds to
             | that aesthetic; the games weren't following a cookie cutter
             | formula like lots of modern open world games, they were
             | spending their time really experimenting because designing
             | for 3D and internet connectivity was still so new.
        
               | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
               | It's pretty subjective, honestly. For context, I played
               | Sonic Adventure when it first came out. I played Sonic
               | Adventure 2 (DC version) less than a year ago because it
               | had a reputation for being a fan favorite. I hated it. I
               | played Sonic 06 recently it had a reputation for being
               | terrible and I found I actually kinda liked it because it
               | made me laugh.
               | 
               | '06s reputation for being terrible is objectively
               | overblown. It is definitely rushed, has long loading
               | times, and is jank as hell, but it is otherwise a pretty
               | mediocre game. I've definitely played a lot worse and I
               | think the general "someone's free Unity game" feel helps
               | it to not be taken too seriously. It is also occasionally
               | completely hilarious. For instance, during the Shadow
               | story fight with Silver, I got trapped in a notorious
               | "It's no use" loop getting shot straight upwards. This
               | was a little frustrating, but then Shadow's corpse fell
               | into the ground head first and got stuck in it like a
               | lawn dart and I laughed my ass off.
               | 
               | By contrast I think a lot of what put me off of SA2 was
               | how seriously it seemed to take itself. It's a lot more
               | polished than '06, but still has enough jank to cause
               | frustration and is otherwise just as mediocre in the
               | gameplay department. A lot of my gripes about SA2's
               | gameplay are actually shared by 06, but I guess I just
               | kind of expect that from a buggy unfinished mess so it is
               | more easily forgiven.
        
       | ddm379 wrote:
       | Still on the hunt for Marvel vs. Capcom 2
        
         | louhike wrote:
         | My favorite vs fighting game! The gameplay is diverse, a lot of
         | great characters and the pixel art is beautiful. I'm lucky
         | enough to have a dreamcast arcade stick and it's such a thrill
         | with it. I hope you'll find it!
        
       | ChrisKnott wrote:
       | The legacy of the Dreamcast was the Xbox, specifically online
       | multiplayer (and massive controllers!).
       | 
       | Peter Moore (who worked on both consoles) has talked about this
       | several times over the years, e.g. this recent example [0]
       | 
       | [0] from 7:40 https://youtu.be/tadtqchbbh0&t=460
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | Thanks for the link. Microsoft really built XBox out of
         | everything they learned from working with Sega on Dreamcast.
         | Without Dreamcast there would be no XBox.
        
           | joenathanone wrote:
           | Funny that, just like how Nintendo created the PlayStation
           | through their dealings with Sony.
        
           | ThrowawayB7 wrote:
           | > " _Microsoft really built XBox out of everything they
           | learned from working with Sega on Dreamcast._ "
           | 
           | People say this but I don't think it's really true or, if it
           | is, it certainly wasn't apparent from the worm's eye view. As
           | the Dreamcast was dying off, there were actually two rival
           | console proposals within MS; one was from the Windows
           | division (whatever it was called then) that became the Xbox
           | and the other came from the Dreamcast team and was IIRC MIPS-
           | based and, of course, ran Windows CE. (And we all know which
           | one won.) Nor did it seem that the Xbox project had any
           | particular interest in taking on ex-Dreamcast staff; of all
           | the IC developers on the project, only one person
           | successfully moved from the Dreamcast team to the Xbox team
           | to the best of my recollection. (Remember that this era was
           | the old Gates-led, cutthroat Microsoft where the internal
           | competitiveness was just as high as external competitiveness.
           | The Windows division and its leadership anecdotally was _not_
           | happy about the existence of Windows CE.)
           | 
           | It remains a mystery to me to this day what expertise was
           | supposedly transferred from the Dreamcast project to the Xbox
           | project. Personally, I suspect it's a myth and the anecdotes
           | by former executives are papering a happy face over a
           | complicated history but, meh, what do I know?
        
             | randomifcpfan wrote:
             | There was a third team from WebTV, that was based around
             | the team that designed the 3DO M2.
             | 
             | That team lost the original Xbox internal design contest,
             | but went on to design the 360 and later Xbox consoles.
             | 
             | The Dreamcast WinCE project did contribute several
             | engineers to the Xbox org. It mostly taught MS how the
             | console game business worked, showed them where
             | WinCE/Direct X needed to be improved to support consoles,
             | and gave them a list of things not to do.
             | 
             | Dreamcast's controller and accessories were also quite
             | influential on the original Xbox controller.
        
           | matthewfcarlson wrote:
           | I remember going into someone's office at microsoft after I
           | first joined (back when everyone there had an office- it's
           | all open office now) and seeing a Dreamcast on someone's
           | shelf and being really confused. He explained he did most of
           | the DirectX port for it and told me some of the details about
           | working in it. It was a fascinating look into what might have
           | been.
        
             | kingcharles wrote:
             | Microsoft went open plan?! I've not been on the campus in
             | years. I always loved the little offices with everyone's
             | past projects on the shelves.
             | 
             | Next you'll be telling me they got rid of all those free
             | snacks and drinks.
        
               | exsf0859 wrote:
               | I think MS went open plan starting in '07 with the "The
               | Commons" campus. Some parts like Bungie were open plan
               | much earlier. (The Bungie team demanded it, they felt it
               | improved collaboration.)
               | 
               | But before that, regular MS engineers were often
               | "temporarily" doubled up or tripled up in their offices,
               | so going open plan wasn't as much of a difference as it
               | might have been.
               | 
               | In the old days people's computers and monitors were
               | physically much larger, you needed multiple computers to
               | multi-task, and you needed lots of paper documentation.
               | One reason we're open-plan now is that people can be very
               | productive with a chair, laptop, and 24" monitor.
        
           | Grazester wrote:
           | Microsoft's involvement in the Dreamcast was only in the
           | Windows CE library for game development and nothing else
        
       | bachmeier wrote:
       | I played my Dreamcast a ton. When I'd get stuck while writing my
       | dissertation (a regular event) I'd think things through while
       | playing a game of hockey. It provided just the right amount of
       | distraction.
       | 
       | I never understood the hype around the PS 2. It was so bad that
       | when I went to the store to buy NHL 2K2, the employee said they
       | no longer made Dreamcast games. She asked the other employee, who
       | said the same thing. I told them the game was being advertised.
       | They called company headquarters and were informed that it was
       | coming out in a few days. They said I was the first customer to
       | ask about the Dreamcast in months.
        
         | halpert wrote:
         | I had a Dreamcast and loved it, but the PS2 was an amazing
         | system. The main draw was the massive game library, great
         | online game play, and it doubled as a DVD player. Not sure what
         | else you'd really want?
        
           | Grazester wrote:
           | Great online plays was not a competing factor with the
           | Dreamcast at that time. Even after a mature library with
           | online play long after the Dreamcast's death the PS2 online
           | scene paled compared to the Xbox.
        
         | moepstar wrote:
         | I _still_ play my Dreamcast a ton.
         | 
         | There's, to this date, new (indie) games being released,
         | new/old builds of long-lost games do surface [0]...
         | 
         | The Dreamcast is a gift that keeps on giving...
         | 
         | [0] https://en.sega-dreamcast-info-games-preservation.com/
        
       | iszomer wrote:
       | What I found most fascinating about the Dreamcast was the
       | extensible utility of the VMU cartridge slotted beneath the
       | controller in that it not only served as storage for saved game
       | data but as a heads-down display for ongoing gameplay. It also
       | had the capability of being a standalone unit for mini games with
       | it's replaceable coin battery.
       | 
       | What's even more interesting is the modding community attempts in
       | repurposing them and keeping the _Dream_ alive.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNoBQ5nTeuk
        
       | aasasd wrote:
       | PS2 emulation is such a pain that I still can't make any emuls
       | work on my Mac. Meanwhile Flycast is being ported to PS Vita with
       | decent FPS.
        
         | treesknees wrote:
         | I've had good luck with this fork of PCSX2. I've been able to
         | play Kingdom Hearts with my Nintendo Pro Controller on my M1
         | Mac and it runs really well.
         | 
         | https://github.com/tellowkrinkle/pcsx2
        
         | lostgame wrote:
         | Is there any reason you can't just use PCSX2?
         | 
         | It works on my _2012_ MacBook Pro...it should work on any
         | fairly recent hardware with zero fuss...
         | 
         | https://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Native-Mac-Testing-Build
        
           | aasasd wrote:
           | It works! But... hella slow with games like Gran Turismo 3.
           | Vaguely on par with PCSX2 in Windows in VMWare Fusion, if not
           | slower. (Fusion can run DX10 stuff on Mac, while Wine and
           | VirtualBox can't.)
           | 
           | Previously I assumed that PCSX2 development for Mac stopped
           | around 2012 with 0.9.7. Can't remember what was my result
           | with it, but possibly the same.
           | 
           | I guess the problem might be with the embedded GPU of the
           | Macbook. Which is still telling, if a weak modern GPU can't
           | handle a system from 2000 while being able to run games from
           | mid-to-late 2010s.
        
         | fredoralive wrote:
         | With the PS2 Sony were already some way down the road that led
         | to the PS3 and Cell and all that complexity, what with the
         | various vector units in the Emotion Engine CPU and slightly odd
         | graphics pipeline. So its not surprising its somewhat hard to
         | emulate, although as other post points out it should work
         | nowadays.
         | 
         | The Dreamcast is somewhat simpler, a fairly straightforward CPU
         | and an "off the shelf"[1] PowerVR chip that isn't as weird
         | (though the tile based rendering stuff is I guess?). Cue
         | emulator authors pointing out all the weird annoying bits of
         | the Dreamcast I've missed.
         | 
         | [1] In itself an interesting choice for the late '90s, when
         | consoles still nearly always had bespoke graphics, instead of
         | just variants of PC GPUs.
        
       | matthewfcarlson wrote:
       | The article was updated with years for each console to try and
       | make the timeline clearer. I think the initial error stating the
       | the Nintendo 64 was released after the Dreamcast was the biggest
       | error.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Since it is fro hackaday, I was expecting at least a word on
       | SuperH.
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | Capcom had so many of my favorite games on the Dreamcast, the
       | regular hits such as Marvel vs Capcom and Street Fighter, but
       | Power Stone, Tech Romancer, Cannon Spike, JoJo's Bizarre
       | Adventure, Rival Schools, etc.
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | These retrospectives on the Dreamcast rarely seem to bring up the
       | fact you could play burned CDs on the system or the shared
       | architecture with the Atomiswave arcade systems the wildly
       | popular (to this day) NAOMI arcade system. Or the Microsoft
       | collaboration. I also feel like more could be explored around
       | SegaNet and its relationship to ALL.net whose legacy is now felt
       | today every time someone sits down at an arcade to play Guilty
       | Gear Strive.
       | 
       | Especially of interest on a site like hackaday, they don't
       | mention the homebrew scene:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dreamcast_homebrew_gam...
       | 
       | Or the ports of Atomiswave games to DC:
       | https://www.retrorgb.com/dreamcast-atomiswave-ports.html
        
         | giobox wrote:
         | I was unaware one could do this, a quick Google suggests CD-R
         | booting only possible out of the box on early Dreamcast models
         | as a fix was introduced?
         | 
         | A dirty but effective copy protection would have presumably
         | been to just make use of the full 1GB of storage the retail
         | Dreamcast GD-ROM discs had, making them to large to copy to a
         | generic CD-R.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | > I was unaware one could do this, a quick Google suggests
           | CD-R booting only possible out of the box on early Dreamcast
           | models as a fix was introduced?
           | 
           | It was the vast majority of them.
           | 
           | > A dirty but effective copy protection would have presumably
           | been to just make use of the full 1GB of storage the retail
           | Dreamcast GD-ROM discs had, making them to large to copy to a
           | generic CD-R.
           | 
           | They did that, so then the release scene would re-encode
           | whatever videos inevitably were taking up space, and bring it
           | back down under 700mb.
        
       | itisit wrote:
       | Brings back memories. Make a cup of tea. Hop on IRC to find the
       | latest FTP. Download 20 some RAR files. Merge them. Burn an ISO.
       | I must have gotten 80+ games this way. Sorry, Sega. Thanks,
       | Windows CE!
        
       | waffle_maniac wrote:
       | There's a custom FPGA mod that allows you use to a usb drive to
       | load games. I've been meaning to get around to that since
       | eventually the GDROM drive fails. I just loved playing Dreamcast
       | with friends.
       | 
       | * Dynamite Cop
       | 
       | * Unreal Tournament
       | 
       | * NBA2k2
       | 
       | * Army Men
        
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