[HN Gopher] What is Web3? Interview with Gavin Wood, who coined ...
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       What is Web3? Interview with Gavin Wood, who coined the term in
       2014
        
       Author : conanxin
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2021-12-21 14:03 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wired.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com)
        
       | knorker wrote:
       | > The Father of Web3
       | 
       | I didn't know yet another pump and dump scam or pyramid scheme
       | reinvention required a "father".
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | The "father" terminology is consistent with other attempts at
         | technical mis/reappropriation in the cryptocurrency community
         | (cf. "crypto," "trustless," &c).
        
       | Alex3917 wrote:
       | IMHO my definition here is both better and earlier, and also
       | better nails the key promise of distributed ledger technology, in
       | terms of it being a mechanism for better allowing large
       | organizations and societies to reach consensus:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1550059
        
         | beepbooptheory wrote:
         | Do you really still think that is what's happening still in our
         | horizon?
         | 
         | Web3 seems to promise smaller, balkanized services, compared to
         | social media monoliths we have now, in the service of,
         | presumably, creating self-governing groups
         | communities/businesses.
         | 
         | At least I think that's the idea? Isn't twitter already society
         | expressing ideas? If anything this idea is "better" by being
         | more vague.
        
       | cmckn wrote:
       | Blockchains are, by design, incredibly inefficient. I'm not
       | talking about mining; take storage as an example. The consensus
       | may be distributed, but the data is purely redundant. The
       | majority of nodes in the network will have to hold a complete
       | copy of the entire chain. If Web3 takes off, it will become more
       | difficult (read: expensive) to operate a node in the network --
       | doesn't that seem backwards? I haven't seen a protocol address
       | this in a meaningful way, it seems to be shrugged off as a bridge
       | to be crossed at a later date. Storage is cheap! But I don't see
       | how these systems could scale to be truly impactful while
       | remaining so inefficient.
        
         | knorker wrote:
         | What do you mean? It has negligible performance overhead
         | according to the "Performance" section here:
         | https://github.com/zhuowei/nft_ptr
         | 
         | /s
        
       | yaomtc wrote:
       | Web 3.0 is a concept being pushed by fans of cryptocurrency. And
       | it sure is going great. https://web3isgoinggreat.com/
        
       | knorker wrote:
       | > Yes and no. I think trust in itself is actually just a bad
       | thing all around. Trust implies that you are you're placing some
       | sort of authority in somebody else, or in some organization, and
       | they will be able to use this authority in some arbitrary way.
       | 
       | This is just such a fantasy land.
       | 
       | There's a guy who wrote The Knowledge, a book that (for fun,
       | basically) describes the knowledge we would need to rebuild
       | society if we suddenly forgot everything. Like when and how do we
       | grow crops. What do effective tools for sowing look like?
       | 
       | Like if we instantly forget everything, this book is what we need
       | to bootstrap quickly.
       | 
       | He was asked "what about government?". His answer was "there's no
       | point. The guy with the biggest gun will be the government".
       | 
       | And that's true today. And it's why web3 is idiotic.
       | 
       | "Truth" won't help you, and "trust" doesn't matter, when the
       | government (in the form of the police) knock on your door and say
       | no, actually, your smart contract is an illegal scheme and we are
       | going to put you in a locked room for a while now.
       | 
       | You neither have to believe in the government, nor trust it, for
       | it to force society's will upon you.
        
         | berberous wrote:
         | The world is not black and white, and I think you are missing
         | the point.
         | 
         | While what you are saying is true to an extent, we can still
         | decrease trust and replace it with verifiable and auditable
         | mechanisms at the margins.
         | 
         | For example, the Fed currently states that they target a 2%
         | annual inflation. Well, the US could just adopt a virtual
         | currency, and hard code a 2% inflation amount that was
         | verifiable in public code. Note that I'm not saying this
         | contrived example is necessarily good or bad, but let's just
         | assume everyone agrees 2% inflation is good and hard coding a
         | 2% money increase rate is equivalent and it's not better to
         | give the government flexibility. This change has the effect of
         | reducing our need to trust that the government will act
         | consistent with its messaging; we can prove it. And while the
         | men with guns can always change the rules (and maybe they
         | should in some scenarios), it's easy to see when the rules are
         | being changed, and it's likely harder to do so if it's not a
         | good idea since there are structural forces that make it more
         | difficult.
         | 
         | The US government is filled with mechanisms to reduce trust (eg
         | checks and balances).
         | 
         | And the reduction of trust is not just a government point.
         | Twitter grew by having a great public API which it then knee
         | capped and harmed the developers who trusted them. Would it not
         | be better to have a protocol incentive that you could more
         | readily trust would not be changed under you? What if the
         | Twitter API had a governance token where the indie developers
         | had owned a large stake of such tokens?
        
           | knorker wrote:
           | Your example is a great example of how absolutely
           | catastrophic and disconnected from reality blockchain people
           | are.
           | 
           | This idea that we can pre-commit to ideas, and not only that
           | we should pre-commit to a course of action with no option to
           | change as new data comes in, but that we are actually able to
           | correctly codify this perfectly, is preposterous.
           | 
           | A bug in a smart contract can make murder legal, or loophole
           | an interest rate to be a billion percent. It's delusional to
           | think that anyone would want this.
           | 
           | A court or legislative body simply has to be able to undo
           | bugs, to overrule.
           | 
           | Maybe we can't trust the government very well, but we KNOW
           | that we can trust smart contracts to completely fuck us with
           | no recourse.
        
       | dvt wrote:
       | > "Less trust, more truth."
       | 
       | What a neat platitude that means absolutely nothing. As a
       | society, over, oh I don't know, like 15000 years, we figured out
       | the the best way to enforce truth is via some sort of
       | _centralized_ institution: the court of law.
       | 
       | > They could, right. They sort of do--there's the star thing that
       | you can only do once per day. But guess what? They're a profit-
       | motivated company. So if you pay Tinder enough, you can just send
       | as many stars as you want.
       | 
       | Wait, crypto miners _aren 't_ profit-motivated? Maybe we should
       | introduce Mr. Wood to flashbots[1] -- a "sub-network" of Ethereum
       | miners (a fork of geth) who's entire purpose for existing is
       | front-running (for a price, of course). Truth as long as you can
       | pay for it -- got it. Web3 is end-stage capitalism and we've been
       | down this road in the early 1900s. Yawn.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/flashbots/pm
        
       | Yhippa wrote:
       | I'm going to go ahead and coin the term Web4. I'm reserving the
       | name with the right to fill in what it means at some undetermined
       | point in the future.
       | 
       | I will take no further questions at this time.
        
         | adoxyz wrote:
         | Dibs on Web5
        
           | mkaic wrote:
           | Only if I get web 6.283, or Webt as the cool kids are calling
           | it these days.
        
           | brutal_chaos_ wrote:
           | Claiming Web7. :)
        
           | jdblair wrote:
           | It's going to be called WebV (like RISC-V). Then we go back
           | to Arabic numerals for web6.
        
           | Yhippa wrote:
           | Why didn't I think of that :-(
        
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