[HN Gopher] New York City to require employers to list minimum a...
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       New York City to require employers to list minimum and maximum
       salaries
        
       Author : hswolff
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2021-12-21 18:25 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ny1.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ny1.com)
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | Way to make harder to get a job!
       | 
       | For my first salary role I took half the advertised pay as I knew
       | less than half of what they wanted.
       | 
       | With this crap I'd just not get the job.
        
         | eschewobfuscat wrote:
         | This hasn't caused jobs to disappear in Colorado, which has a
         | similar law.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | >Colorado remote workers need not apply: Companies avoid
           | state due to salary-posting law
           | 
           | https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/26/colorado-remote-
           | work-j...
        
           | missedthecue wrote:
           | For remote work it has. I see postings all the time
           | "Residents of Colorado are ineligible for this position"
        
           | redis_mlc wrote:
        
         | rahimnathwani wrote:
         | The law does not prevent this.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | The law opens any employer up to dozens of lawsuits if they
           | hire people for less than what was advertised.
        
             | frumper wrote:
             | They still need to hire. Employers don't hire for the fun
             | of it.
        
               | redis_mlc wrote:
        
             | tablespoon wrote:
             | > The law opens any employer up to dozens of lawsuits if
             | they hire people for less than what was advertised.
             | 
             | If it actually does do that, then spell out why that's the
             | case (e.g. what's the penalty for hiring someone for a
             | salary outside the posted range)?
             | 
             | The OP makes it sound like this is only to address certain
             | information asymmetries in salary negotiation:
             | 
             | > Currently, New York City employers are allowed to
             | withhold pay information until the end of the hiring
             | process.
             | 
             | > Advocates of the bill argue that this forces applications
             | into unequal negotiations throughout the hiring process
             | without the critical piece of knowledge around salary.
             | 
             | > "Lack of salary transparency is discriminatory and anti-
             | worker," said Rosenthal. "Every New Yorker should have the
             | right to determine whether they will be able to support
             | themselves and their family when they apply for a job. It
             | is time to level the playing field, and restore some
             | dignity to New Yorkers seeking employment."
             | 
             | > ...Job postings without salary range information can be
             | reported to the city's Commission on Human Rights.
             | 
             | Based on the article, I see no reason why someone would be
             | prevented from consenting to pay below the position's
             | current minimum, _so long as they have full knowledge that
             | is what they are in fact doing_.
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | >Based on the article, I see no reason why someone would
               | be prevented from consenting to pay below the position's
               | current minimum, so long as they have full knowledge that
               | is what they are in fact doing
               | 
               | As they say, the path to Hell is paved with good
               | intentions, I see no reason why an HR department would
               | take the risk.
               | 
               | When I was in my early 20s I had no degree or real
               | experience. With misguided laws like this I wouldn't of
               | been offered a job. It's not on your employer to pay you
               | 100k for your first job. You endure making a bit less for
               | a while.
               | 
               | Then about 3 years later you get your 100k job
        
               | tablespoon wrote:
               | > As they say, the path to Hell is paved with good
               | intentions...
               | 
               | The other path to Hell is to not act on good intentions.
               | 
               | > With misguided laws like this I wouldn't of been
               | offered a job.
               | 
               | No, you're just making that assumption.
        
               | rytcio wrote:
               | > The other path to Hell is to not act on good
               | intentions.
               | 
               | Only if you ignore unintended consequences
        
               | tablespoon wrote:
               | > Only if you ignore unintended consequences
               | 
               | Some people seem to think the hand-waved threat of
               | "unintended consequences" should be enough to kill any
               | policy they happen to dislike. It's not.
               | 
               | I'm tired of the broken record fearmongering about
               | unintended consequences, especially when it's paired (as
               | it always is) with no constructive alternative to address
               | the problem in question. It's an unpersuasive attempt at
               | preventing improvement to the status quo.
        
               | chrismcb wrote:
               | Why? Why would you ask to be paid less?
        
         | millzlane wrote:
         | I don't even waste my time applying if I don't know what to
         | expect for compensation. So it's already hard to get a job.
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | This might work better with government jobs than private sector,
       | and it feels like public sector policymakers trying to manage
       | businesses like they manage the government. Government jobs are
       | more likely to have tight wage bands and strict requirements. The
       | private sector will "figure something out" for a p90 candidate.
       | 
       | Since candidates will always ask for the top of the band, I'd
       | expect either very tight bands and candidates get moved to "more
       | appropriate" openings or bands covering 3 standard deviations so
       | employers can claim the range is in good faith, but still leave
       | room for negotiation.
        
       | imapeopleperson wrote:
       | I'm worried I'll get paid less so that others won't have to get
       | paid more.
        
       | Manuel_D wrote:
       | Minimum salary: $10,000 per year.
       | 
       | Maximum salary: $1,000,000 per year.
       | 
       | Legal compliance achieved, while still effectively maintaining
       | confidentiality of salary info.
        
         | rahimnathwani wrote:
         | That range probably doesn't satisfy the requirements of the new
         | law:
         | 
         | The range must: "extend from the lowest to the highest salary
         | the employer in good faith believes at the time of the posting
         | it would pay for the advertised job, promotion or transfer
         | opportunity."
        
           | tablespoon wrote:
           | > That range probably doesn't satisfy the requirements of the
           | new law:
           | 
           | It's amazing how some people lazily assume they're so much
           | cleverer than everyone else.
           | 
           | A good heuristic is to assume you're just plain wrong if you
           | think you've discovered a way to weasel out of a law with
           | only five seconds worth of thought.
        
         | spicybright wrote:
         | Not sure I follow. The min and max would be based all the real
         | job in the company. Otherwise it's useless.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | literallyaduck wrote:
       | All positions are now unique use a guid designation and have the
       | same minimum as maximum are immutable. To change salary the
       | position will be retired and a new one will take its place.
        
       | commandlinefan wrote:
       | Will be interesting to see how many (and which) corporations move
       | headquarters to get around this.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Will be interesting to see how many (and which) corporations
         | move headquarters to get around this_
         | 
         | This is the wrong target. Large companies are generally fine
         | with these sorts of laws. It's the small companies who now have
         | another of ten million disclosure laws they have to follow,
         | laws which vary from county to county.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | What "small" company is hiring employees in so many countries
           | that it's burdensome to publish wages on their website.
        
         | rahimnathwani wrote:
         | Can you think of a single example of a company for which moving
         | headquarters might make sense because of this law?
         | 
         | Remember that it applies only to salary (not total
         | compensation) and it applies to jobs done in NYC, not jobs done
         | for companies whose headquarters are in NYC.
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-21 23:02 UTC)