[HN Gopher] Pfizer's Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3...
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       Pfizer's Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study
        
       Author : elorant
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2021-12-19 21:50 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.fdanews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.fdanews.com)
        
       | beaner wrote:
       | The vaccines were also lauded as 100% effective in the early days
       | by Fauci and others, so just a reminder that time and
       | reproducibility matter before being too confident about it.
        
         | xboxnolifes wrote:
         | I don't recall a single instance of 100% efficacy claim. It was
         | around 92-97%.
        
           | jmarbach wrote:
           | You are arguing over semantics. In reality, the Pfizer vax
           | has proven to be less than 10% effective at stopping a future
           | infection.
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | They never claimed it stopped infection, and they never
             | claimed it would last forever. The claims they made always
             | came with an asterisk that they typically were clear about
             | clarifying.
        
               | jmarbach wrote:
               | You are completely wrong -- totally warped by the
               | narrative.
               | 
               | Look at the Pfizer press release, Nov 9, 2020 - the first
               | sentence:
               | 
               | "Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90%
               | effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without
               | evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first
               | interim efficacy analysis"
               | 
               | https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-
               | deta...
        
               | heyitsguay wrote:
               | For the variants at the time. The spread of the delta and
               | omicron variants was tracked so closely and garnered so
               | much attention in large part due to their abilities to at
               | least partially evade vaccine-induced immunity, but this
               | was always a known risk. The larger the infected
               | population, the more chances for such an event to occur,
               | hence the importance of measures like vaccinations,
               | social distancing, and lockdowns to curb the spread.
        
               | jjulius wrote:
               | First, as another user pointed out, for the variants of
               | the time. Second, "completely" is a strong word there;
               | your link, and the part you quoted, still clarifies that
               | it's possible to get infected.
               | 
               | Edit: You are also misreading what you're quoting[1].
               | 
               | [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29619347
        
               | someotherperson wrote:
               | Maybe I'm misinformed, but as I understood it, COVID-19
               | is the disease brought upon by SARS-Cov-2 infection. That
               | line on its own doesn't suggest it prevents infection, it
               | suggests it prevents the COVID-19 disease (i.e 90% chance
               | of being left with a asymptomatic infection).
        
               | jjulius wrote:
               | You are 100% correct. You contract SARS-CoV-2, which then
               | _turns in_ to COVID-19[1].
               | 
               | [1]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-00459-7
        
               | maxerickson wrote:
               | It's a technical distinction lost on the public. Maybe
               | that's a bad thing, but it is what it is.
        
               | maxerickson wrote:
               | It's sophistry, but "COVID-19" in that press release
               | means symptomatic infection with SARS-CoV-2, not just
               | infection.
        
               | junon wrote:
               | Your own misunderstanding of the difference between SARS-
               | CoV-2 and COVID-19 do not entitle you to assert
               | _anything_ about the subject.
        
               | vidoc wrote:
               | > They never claimed it stopped infection
               | 
               | True, but they sure as hell implied it was. For example,
               | this fact check appeared in the search container of
               | google early on: note the use of the double negative in
               | the VERDICT.
               | 
               | https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-
               | transmission/fa...
        
             | kadoban wrote:
             | That sounds low. Where did you get your numbers?
        
               | jmarbach wrote:
               | Anecdotal. You do not need to be a meteorologist to know
               | when it's raining. Look outside. Everyone around you is
               | vaccinated and they're getting infected.
        
               | zackbloom wrote:
               | There is very good data on this. Infection rates are
               | roughly 5x higher, and death rates 13x higher, among the
               | unvaccinated.
        
               | ZephyrBlu wrote:
               | Infection rate is orthogonal to preventing people from
               | being infected. If you're not exposed, you can never be
               | infected.
               | 
               | It also depends how you define efficacy/effectiveness.
               | Does it mean for each exposure, over a period of time,
               | etc.
        
               | MatthewMob wrote:
               | So you are lying then. What do you gain out of misleading
               | people with your rhetoric here?
        
               | kadoban wrote:
               | Making up numbers isn't a very good way to be convincing.
               | 
               | Is that meteorologist bit supposed to be a reference to
               | the Weather Underground?
        
               | lottin wrote:
               | Let me get this straight. First, you say the vaccine has
               | been proven to be less than 10% effective. Now you're
               | admitting that you've made it up, while at the same time
               | insisting it's true. Astonishing.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | English isn't my native language, but I thought "proven"
             | wasn't a synonym for "I asked my friends".
        
           | 6nf wrote:
           | There's a well known tweet of Fauci saying 'all three
           | vaccines are 100% effective'
        
             | junon wrote:
             | Link please.
        
         | junon wrote:
         | Show me a single claim they'd be 100% effective by an
         | epidemiologist, please.
        
       | jmarbach wrote:
       | Are we really going to believe "90% effective" for the second
       | time?
       | 
       | "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..."
        
         | junon wrote:
         | Yes.
        
       | baka367 wrote:
       | Cautiously hopeful that this does indeed work and that it does
       | work for all variants...
       | 
       | .. and that it also would not cost a fortune in 3rd world where
       | we really need easily accessible and storable countermeasures
       | against the bugger.
        
         | jimmyearlcarter wrote:
         | Ivermectin, Fluvoximine, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc, Quercetin.
         | All cheap and easily made available and shown to be effective
         | at various stages of infection.
         | https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-
         | pl.... Plus we already know they are safe to use, no EUA
         | required.
        
         | xienze wrote:
         | > and that it also would not cost a fortune in 3rd world
         | 
         | Oh it won't, don't worry. Pfizer will make all their profit off
         | it in the US.
        
           | desine wrote:
           | Specifically the US and eurozone taxpayers will pay Pfizer
           | for the less wealthy countries. Oh well better than paying
           | Lockheed and Raytheon for their democracy spreading
        
             | bhaak wrote:
             | I'm not sure the taxpayers will pay for that if you are
             | unvaccinated.
             | 
             | This pill is for "high-risk patients who took the antiviral
             | within three days of symptom onset".
             | 
             | The vaccination even seems to be a bit more effective than
             | this pill?
        
       | btmiller wrote:
        
         | marklubi wrote:
         | > The race to vaccinate enough people is frankly impossible
         | considering how politically charged it became. Fucking
         | Republicans.
         | 
         | Please take your politically charged discourse elsewhere. This
         | isn't the right place for mudslinging like this.
        
           | atonse wrote:
           | I do agree with the general sentiment of keeping politics out
           | of it.
           | 
           | But sadly there do seem to be some pretty strong correlations
           | at a county level across the US. It could also be rural/urban
           | cultural divides but the more obvious one is simply politics.
        
             | _-david-_ wrote:
             | There are a large number of blacks and young people who are
             | not vaccinated. This is a bipartisan thing.
        
           | joshu wrote:
           | If the mud fits, they need to wear it. Tone policing like
           | this is mostly for their benefit.
        
         | mixedbit wrote:
         | Unfortunately, the Pfizer pill needs to be taken early in the
         | infection, so when patients may not be yet in the survival
         | mode, but still in "it's just like a flu" mode.
        
         | yosito wrote:
         | > Fucking Republicans
         | 
         | As a vaccinated, boosted republican, this attitude isn't
         | helping. Yeah, there are a bunch of idiotic republican
         | politicians out there. But there are also a lot of idiotic
         | democrat politicians out there who aren't making COVID policy
         | decisions based on science and evidence, but based on their
         | ideological side: outdoor mask mandates, travel bans, blocking
         | people's access to their own private property, etc. So no, not
         | fucking republicans. Fucking tribalism. It's making humans act
         | completely irrationally.
        
       | desine wrote:
       | The one that is a protease inhibitor but definitely not related
       | to ivermectin the other protease inhibitor already available as a
       | generic? The one that gets a fresh patent for increased profits?
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29249686
        
         | ufo wrote:
         | Ivermectin acts on glutamate chloride ion channels. It is not a
         | protease inhibitor. And even if it were (which it is not),
         | something that inhibits one protease doesn't work on other
         | proteases. We can't use HIV protease inhibitors to fight covid,
         | for example.
        
           | desine wrote:
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/
        
         | jiggawatts wrote:
         | Ivermectin _works_ because it's an anti-parasitic. The standard
         | of care for COVID includes steroids that allow parasites to
         | multiply unchecked, killing patients. Ivermectin counters that.
         | 
         | This was demonstrated by numerous studies showing reduced
         | deaths -- all those successful studies were in places with a
         | high endemic parasite load.
         | 
         | In places with low levels of parasite infections, ivermectin
         | basically does nothing.
         | 
         | If you disagree, you'd have to show some combination of:
         | 
         | #1 That Ivermectin is not an anti-parasitic
         | 
         | #2 People don't have parasites.
         | 
         | #3 Parasites don't kill you if you get given steroids.
         | 
         | #4 There is a massive global conspiracy against this one
         | specific drug, but only in developed countries that
         | _coincidentally_ have low endemic parasite infections.
         | 
         | Good luck! I look forward to your references to peer-reviewed,
         | reproduced, double-blind studies upending decades of well
         | established medical science.
        
       | MaxMoney wrote:
       | Natural Immunity is how effective?
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | On first encounter, it doesn't yet exist.
         | 
         | Same reason it might not be sensible to have sex unprotected
         | with a syphilis patient.
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-19 23:01 UTC)