[HN Gopher] Against Translation
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Against Translation
        
       Author : behoove
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2021-12-19 19:16 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (libertiesjournal.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (libertiesjournal.com)
        
       | jonas21 wrote:
       | I don't generally have a problem with long-form, but if your
       | article has a title that implies there's an argument in there, I
       | feel like you owe it to the reader to at least give some idea of
       | what that argument is within the first 5 paragraphs.
        
         | tetromino_ wrote:
         | After reading the whole thing, I got the distinct impression
         | that the author probably strongly dislikes readers who want (or
         | are used to!) an argument presented in the first 5 paragraphs.
        
           | hlbjhblbljib wrote:
           | Fuck him then
        
       | kingcharles wrote:
       | Of course it would be great to read books in their native
       | language, but is it better to get a reasonable translation of a
       | book, or no translation at all? That is the question.
       | 
       | If you take some authors with multiple translations over many
       | decades, e.g. Proust or Hugo, you can see that the early
       | translations are actually very rough, and only recently are we
       | seeing very high quality.
       | 
       | The main problem is that language translation is forever
       | imperfect. If you look at Proust's French, there is no direct
       | translation into English for the way it is written because no
       | English person writes in that manner, so the translator has to
       | make a lot of hard decisions to make the book enjoyable.
       | 
       | My French isn't strong enough to read native Proust (god, I wish
       | it was), but then you have things like Hugo which is 1800s French
       | and I'm sure even modern French kids have some trouble reading
       | it.
       | 
       | If you do read a translated book, PLEASE find the best
       | translation before you purchase. I'll give you an example...
       | 
       | This Les Mis book has the same illustration on the front (public
       | domain) as the musical poster, so it looks official:
       | https://www.amazon.com/Miserables-Signet-Classics-Victor-Hug...
       | 
       | But it is a miserable 100 year old translation spruced up a bit.
       | You will probably hate the book and hate your life if you try to
       | read it. It boasts that it is unabridged because that seems like
       | a thing you would want, but...
       | 
       | This new translation by Penguin is like night and day:
       | https://www.amazon.com/Miserables-Penguin-Classics-Deluxe/dp...
       | 
       | It is somewhat "abridged" because the translator took the bold
       | step of tearing out 50 pages of the book - that are basically
       | just the author going on a rant and has nothing to do with the
       | story - and translated them and stuffed them in the appendix.
       | This was a smart move, and went above their job title to produce
       | a much more readable work.
       | 
       | tl;dr: read more great foreign books; always check you are
       | getting the best translation before you start
        
         | Baeocystin wrote:
         | My view on translations is that if literary luminaries such as
         | Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Vladimir Nabokov both think that the
         | English versions of their work fully stand up to the test
         | (which they are both on record as stating), then that is good
         | enough for me.
         | 
         | I am not monolingual. I know what it feels like to read in
         | different languages, and here's the thing: The words? The
         | grammar? Easy. You can learn enough to stumble through a
         | newspaper in a matter of months.
         | 
         | The culture _behind_ the language? _That_ is what takes decades
         | to acquire, and if you don 't have it, I 100% guarantee you
         | will get a _more accurate_ reading of the author 's intent in a
         | well-translated work than you ever would lurching your way
         | though the native text.
        
         | shanhaiguan wrote:
         | Tangentially. As someone who has only read the old Signet
         | version of Les Mis, I find it interesting that you think it
         | isn't as good. When I read it, I was very impressed with Hugo's
         | prose (or at least, filtered through the translated lens). It
         | was not like reading anything I had ever previously read.
         | Sounds like I need to check out the new one then too :)
        
       | aaroninsf wrote:
       | I'll take this opportunity to translate the essay.
       | 
       | "Translation is lossy therefore bad. (Also, I am a cultured
       | person with an admirably rich life to mine anecdotes and allusion
       | from. No truly, it's puro puro, the good stuff, primo first
       | pressing life experience in the old hand-crafted vein, you won't
       | live this life these days let me tell you. No, truly; let me tell
       | you.)"
        
       | slibhb wrote:
       | > There was no doubt that there was a lot in our collective past
       | that was shameful -- though how this made us different from every
       | other nation was never clear to me. What was clear was that
       | feeling ourselves to be the worst was -- like feeling ourselves
       | to be the best -- characteristic of our particular form of
       | national narcissism. And I thought that, if we were going to turn
       | our backs on our patrimony, we ought to do it consciously. We
       | ought, at the very least, to know what that culture was, what it
       | had been
       | 
       | Wise words.
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | This was too long for me to understand. The author should just
       | get to the point they want to make.
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | You shouldn't get downvoted for your opinion.
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | I love reading books in their native language, especially when
       | there is no translation available. It's like having a key to an
       | exclusive world that others can't access. It is, however, quite a
       | bit of work to learn a new language simply to be able to read
       | works in that language and I'm not sure if it provides much value
       | aside from a smug sense of being educated and multilingual.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-12-19 23:01 UTC)