[HN Gopher] Fund Science on the Basis of Scientists' Work, Not T...
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       Fund Science on the Basis of Scientists' Work, Not Their Identity
        
       Author : temp8964
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2021-12-19 17:37 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (quillette.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (quillette.com)
        
       | dash2 wrote:
       | Just amazing that this should even have to be said. But I'm an
       | academic, and here we are.
       | 
       | What's particularly bad about this approach - which is fast
       | becoming endemic - is that it effectively treats science as a
       | source of perks for scientists. No! We fund science because it
       | benefits all humans. If the choice is "allocate cancer research
       | money to be equal between men/women/ethnic groups of your choice"
       | and "allocate money to maximize the chance of curing cancer",
       | that should be a no-brainer!
       | 
       | To be clear, I believe that there are things that could be done
       | to improve the participation of minorities in science _which
       | would also improve science_. But positive discrimination is
       | unlikely to be one of them, and certainly ought not to be the
       | first port of call.
       | 
       | And yeah, as a white male, I also obviously dislike the idea that
       | it is OK for me to be discriminated against. People are funny
       | that way.
        
       | agarsev wrote:
       | The article makes the point that in a particular funding call,
       | men got more money than women because there are more men of some
       | ages due to imbalances of the past, rather than because of
       | discrimination against women. However, it does not argue _why_
       | funding should be awarded base on the merit of the work.
       | Additionally, the last paragraph is unnecessary and lowers the
       | article 's value in my view. Discriminating against a majority to
       | make more space for a minority might be the wrong thing to do,
       | but it is in no way equivalent to discriminating against a
       | _minority_ to exclude that minority from participation.
       | 
       | On the topic of the title, even if it's not addressed in the
       | article itself, why would someone argue _against_ evaluating
       | scientists for their work instead of their identity? The problem
       | is that science is so specialized today that only other
       | specialists can value each other 's work. But some external
       | control or balancing force is necessary to avoid politics and
       | tribalism (yes, scientists are human too). Forcing diversity in
       | funding may be a way to disrupt endogamous tendencies without
       | compromising quality of research (unless you believe that women
       | or cultures or whatever do worse science).
       | 
       | On the other hand, a lot of science is "hit and miss". Many
       | important discoveries are found by chance. And a lot of extremely
       | important basic research is not obviously important until some
       | flashy result is achieved, if ever. Funding this is almost a
       | lottery. And therefore, it is a good place to exert some action
       | into diversity. There are still many high profile grants and
       | awards for excellent researchers and groups, so it is not a
       | problem and, who knows, maybe it is good, to distribute funding
       | to increase social representation so that science does not become
       | (or keeps on being) a white, well-off male game.
        
         | dash2 wrote:
         | > Many important discoveries are found by chance. And a lot of
         | extremely important basic research is not obviously important
         | until some flashy result is achieved, if ever. Funding this is
         | almost a lottery...
         | 
         | I do not find this persuasive. Is the argument really "we have
         | no idea how to fund science, so we might as well use it as a
         | social justice tool?" While many salient discoveries are found
         | by chance, most science is done deliberately, not at random. We
         | did not get to the moon, split the atom, or develop electric
         | cars by chance. Even chance results are often found _by very
         | good scientists_ , because fortune favours the prepared mind.
         | 
         | I'm also unconvinced by "Forcing diversity in funding may be a
         | way to disrupt endogamous tendencies". Frankly, from my POV,
         | this is about as credible as "joining the Jonestown cult may be
         | a way to cure suicidal ideation". See also
         | https://cspicenter.org/reports/increasing-politicization-
         | and....
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-19 23:02 UTC)