[HN Gopher] Lead exposure from routine consumption of coffee and...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lead exposure from routine consumption of coffee and tea from
       ceramic mugs
        
       Author : spekcular
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2021-12-18 17:47 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (foodcontaminationjournal.biomedcentral.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (foodcontaminationjournal.biomedcentral.com)
        
       | politician wrote:
       | Well, this ruined my morning cup of coffee.
        
         | spekcular wrote:
         | It shouldn't. All mugs sold commercially should satisfy FDA
         | guidelines for lead in the glaze.
         | 
         | Note that only one mug here produced coffee that was over the
         | FDA limit for lead in bottled water (and still below the tap
         | water threshold).
         | 
         | Now, the foreign mugs, or vintage mugs, or handcrafted mugs you
         | buy at a local market from a local artisan who may or may not
         | be using lead-free glaze? There you have to be careful. NYC had
         | severe lead poisoning cases from this just a few months ago:
         | https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/574547-lead-
         | poisoning-....
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | The main thing makes me curious about is how many companies
           | cut corners. The fact that only one mug was significant seems
           | like poor quality control by a single manufacturer, which
           | probably says we need more random sample monitoring.
        
           | Tempest1981 wrote:
           | > should satisfy FDA guidelines
           | 
           | Many of my mugs are from gift shops. I wonder if they are FDA
           | approved?
        
             | spekcular wrote:
             | Unless it says "Not food safe" on the bottom, you're
             | probably good. If you can find a manufacturer mark and
             | Google it, that might be the best way to check. USA made is
             | very likely safe.
        
               | Tempest1981 wrote:
               | Almost all say "Made in China". A couple have a
               | "THAILAND". One "ENGLAND"!
               | 
               | Only a few have a manufacturer name.
        
       | blakesterz wrote:
       | I've always wondered about that, I have a few mugs I use daily
       | and they have tiny little cracks inside. The results say coffee
       | seems to have more lead than tea, and some of the levels were
       | above guidelines. The lead concentrations were dependent on the
       | cup used. But blood lead levels did not increase above regulatory
       | or guidance values.
        
       | jaclaz wrote:
       | TLDR:
       | 
       | > Overall, the potential for lead ingestion from contaminated
       | ceramic mugs is minimal when compared to other sources, such as
       | food. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
       | (ATSDR) reported that the average daily intake of lead from food
       | sources in the general population is approximately 56.5 mg/day
       | (ATSDR 2007a). In comparison, the maximum daily lead intake from
       | drinking 3.3 eight-ounce cups of coffee based on the data
       | collected in our study resulted in a dose of 6.71 mg, over eight
       | times less than the average daily lead intake from food.
       | Nonetheless, exposure to lead should be minimized to the extent
       | possible.
        
       | knappa wrote:
       | Beware the Green Decorative mug!
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | I have a green mug, but it is not very decorative, please
         | advise.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | For the vast majority of ceramic homeware, your beverage never
       | comes into contact with the ceramic material - the shiny 'gloss'
       | surface is a glaze material. It's _that_ which often contains
       | lead.
       | 
       | It's particularly common on 'artisan' home-made ceramics, due to
       | the ease of working with lead glazes.
       | 
       | Wikipedia even has a section on the topic:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_glaze#Lead(II)_oxide
        
       | DoctorNick wrote:
       | Well, crap. How do you tell which ceramics use lead-based
       | paint/glaze and which don't?
        
         | spekcular wrote:
         | Almost all do. Most don't leach, or leach amounts too small to
         | pose a significant danger.
         | 
         | For more info, check out this blog [0]. The design is a little
         | much, but it's quite informative. The author is a mother whose
         | kids got lead poisoning, so she bought a XRF spectral analyzer
         | and now posts lead test results for tons of items. I've found
         | it a useful resource.
         | 
         | [0] https://tamararubin.com/2019/12/which-ceramic-coffee-mugs-
         | ar...
        
           | jdnier wrote:
           | Really interesting.
           | 
           | From the article: "Total Lead content in the glaze or coating
           | of modern mugs (as detectable with an XRF) is not regulated.
           | As long as mugs are not leaching Lead at the time of
           | manufacture (when they are brand-new), they are considered to
           | be safe to use -- even if the Lead content of the glaze is
           | very high. However, for context, the amount of Lead
           | considered unsafe (and illegal) in the paint, glaze or
           | coating of a newly-manufactured item manufactured and sold as
           | "intended for use by children" is 90 ppm or higher. The good
           | news is that, since children's items are regulated for total
           | Lead content (as of 2008), newly-purchased children's mugs
           | legally must have coatings below 90 ppm Lead [and my findings
           | have confirmed that manufacturers are generally complying
           | with this law -- although I recommend sticking with
           | children's items manufactured in 2011 or later, as it took a
           | while for the companies (and their supply chains) to get up
           | to speed in their compliance with the new regulations]."
        
           | ezekiel68 wrote:
           | FWIW, every "recommended" mug in her current list is a glass
           | mug, not a ceramic glaze mug. Which is no problem for me but
           | this doesn't answer the original question.
           | 
           | As a matter of fact, I ordered a new glass mug set from
           | Amazon using a link in her article (which I assume is an
           | affiliate link) out of gratitude for her work.
        
       | harles wrote:
       | Does anyone know the credibility of this site or the journal this
       | article is in? The subtitle is odd enough to make me question the
       | legitimacy "comparison to California Safe Harbor Levels".
        
         | spekcular wrote:
         | It's run by a reputable publisher (Springer) and the editorial
         | board consists of scientists at major universities: https://foo
         | dcontaminationjournal.biomedcentral.com/about/edi....
        
           | timr wrote:
           | It's not a great journal. Per the metrics:
           | 
           | 0.882 - Source Normalized Impact per Paper (SNIP) 0.37 -
           | SCImago Journal Rank (SJR) 4 - Cite Score
           | 
           | This is a place where niche papers get published. Springer
           | runs tons of crap journals.
           | 
           | (for reference, SJR scores for all journals:
           | https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php)
        
             | spekcular wrote:
             | Low citation count does not imply it's an untrustworthy
             | journal. Sometimes niche knowledge is useful - as in the
             | present case of food contamination studies!
        
               | timr wrote:
               | No, but it implies they have a low bar for acceptance.
               | You can't take impact factor of the journal as the sole
               | indicator of quality for a particular paper (even NEJM
               | publishes garbage), but it should strongly influence your
               | prior.
               | 
               | Especially for general-interest studies like this, if the
               | results were impactful and well done they'd be published
               | in a better journal. Assuming that this is done well (I
               | have no idea), the fact that it's in a super-niche
               | journal means that it's likely _not_ surprising
               | /interesting to anyone in the field.
        
               | spekcular wrote:
               | Let's not conflate "quality" of the paper with whether
               | the results are surprising or interesting to experts. As
               | far as I tell, the work is competently done and provides
               | useful information to consumers. Namely, that
               | commercially available ceramic mugs likely do not pose a
               | lead hazard, with quantitative estimates of the lead they
               | leach.
               | 
               | It's not going to win a Nobel prize - but I don't think
               | that should be the bar for taking food safety research
               | seriously.
        
       | ldoughty wrote:
       | My wife does pottery, and makes her own glazes. This is a major
       | concern for potters, and you usually won't see a professional or
       | semi-professional potter use lead in their glazes...
       | 
       | Of course, if you're buying on Amazon, who knows.. but you are
       | very, very unlikely to have this problem with people who make
       | pottery for a living (like local artists, or reputable Etsy
       | shops)..
        
         | throwaway82931 wrote:
         | This safety risk applies to anything else you buy on Amazon.
         | Not just pottery, but all dinnerware. Not just dinnerware, but
         | also items like children's toys.
         | 
         | If you can't trust the origins of pottery on Amazon, why can
         | you trust the origins of _anything_ on Amazon?
         | 
         | And if you can't trust the origins of anything, you can't count
         | on safety regulations and standards that you take for granted.
        
           | derefr wrote:
           | > If you can't trust the origins of pottery on Amazon, why
           | can you trust the origins of anything on Amazon?
           | 
           | Because many (most?) categories of goods are consolidated
           | into an effective oligopoly of reputable brands, where these
           | brands push competitors out of the market in basically every
           | respect -- in brand-recognition, in advertising payments, in
           | number of reviews, in review score, in "link juice", etc.
           | 
           | So even when there _are_ garbage Shenzhen e-waste products
           | being marketed on the same website, in the same category as
           | the thing you 're looking for, you won't see them if there
           | are real products to be had, because the first five pages are
           | all the real products. (Unless you're doing _very_ specific
           | searches, using very unusual keywords that the well-known
           | brands would never think to buy.)
           | 
           | This is why the experience of shopping on Amazon is a
           | different experience than shopping on a site like Wish or
           | AliExpress: Amazon has both the e-waste _and_ the stuff from
           | well-known brands, and if you stay  "on the happy path" of
           | using the site, you'll end up mostly seeing stuff from well-
           | known brands.
           | 
           | The only time this falls down is when there are _no_
           | reputable brands in a category. Such as in the category of
           | kitsch stoneware. For those categories, Amazon and Wish
           | /AliExpress become effectively the same site.
           | 
           | > And if you can't trust the origins of anything, you can't
           | count on safety regulations and standards that you take for
           | granted.
           | 
           | I mean... most of the things I buy on Amazon, I'm not putting
           | in my mouth. What's the worst a christmas ornament is going
           | to do to me? Get glitter on the floor?
           | 
           | I do understand the cases you're referring to -- electronics
           | and such -- but in those cases, there are import regulations
           | that actually prevent things like "burns your house down"
           | electronics from coming into the country, with actively-
           | maintained blacklists of products. Some few dangerous items
           | might slip through the cracks and get imported anyway
           | (especially at first, in unusual+novel categories like
           | "negative-ion wellness products"), but one email to US
           | Customs is usually enough to get these things sorted out, and
           | the whole category will disappear from the store the next
           | day. (See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7TwBUxxIC0)
        
             | VRay wrote:
             | What the hell are you talking about? No-name Shenzhen
             | manufacturers rocket to the #1 slot all the time, through a
             | combination of being cheaper and literally paying for 5
             | star reviews
             | 
             | Just search for anything on Amazon right now and you can
             | see what I mean. I ran afoul of this when I needed a
             | humidifier last year, but just now I searched for "phone
             | charger" and the front page was mostly brands that exist
             | solely on Amazon and some tiny Facebook page
        
               | jimbob45 wrote:
               | I think his point was that the Shenzhen stuff only
               | rockets up like you say when you're buying niche items.
               | 
               | For example, if you search for a good mixer, you're going
               | to get reputable brands at the top like KitchenAid,
               | Cuisinart, etc. Conversely, when I went to buy a pull-up
               | bar last year, there were only Shenzhen knockoffs because
               | there are no big-time players in the pull-up bar
               | industry.
               | 
               | There's probably a nice parallel to be made between this
               | subject and first-party and third-party games made for
               | certain gaming consoles.
        
         | someuser54541 wrote:
         | > _Of course, if you 're buying on Amazon, who knows.. but you
         | are very, very unlikely to have this problem with people who
         | make pottery for a living (like local artists, or reputable
         | Etsy shops).._
         | 
         | Purchasing decisions by buyers are probably not based on
         | whether or not the seller produces pottery for a living. I'd
         | wager price, convenience (fast shipping, etc.), size, and
         | design matter far more to a buyer.
         | 
         | Here's how the mugs were selected:
         | 
         | > _The five mugs chosen for this study were selected because
         | they were found to contain lead in a screening-level
         | assessment. Specifically, 24 mugs from the authors' office were
         | tested using an Olympus Innov-X Delta handheld X-Ray
         | fluorescent (XRF) analyzer. Each mug was measured once with the
         | XRF gun at its highest sensitivity setting, which required the
         | tester to hold the analyzer over the mug for 45 s. The three
         | mugs with the highest resulting lead concentrations (1,223 to
         | 7,034 mg /kg) were selected for the present study. These mugs
         | each had decorative elements and will be referred to by their
         | predominant colors: Green Decorative, Yellow Decorative, and
         | Red Decorative. In addition, two representative mugs were
         | selected from the batch of office mugs baring the authors'
         | company's logo. These will be referred to as Black Logo1 and
         | Black Logo2. All five mugs selected were in active use in the
         | authors' San Francisco, California, office environment, and
         | were typically washed daily in an automatic dish washer. Four
         | of the five mugs were purchased in the U.S., and one was
         | purchased in Europe (Red Decorative). The mugs all appeared to
         | be in good condition, with no obvious signs of damage or wear._
         | 
         | The types of mugs found in a standard office _probably_ match
         | the types of mugs many people have in their homes. Regardless,
         | lots of coffee is regularly consumed in an office environment.
         | 
         | I believe the results of this study are a little more relevant
         | than your comment suggests.
        
           | yread wrote:
           | > Olympus Innov-X Delta handheld X-Ray fluorescent (XRF)
           | analyzer
           | 
           | That sounds like an interesting toy. Pity it costs about
           | $15.000. But checkout the video in this listing:
           | 
           | https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Xrf-Analyzer-Price-
           | Ha...
           | 
           | You just point it at things and it says what are they made
           | of. Magic!
        
         | 7thaccount wrote:
         | I bought a tagine (Moroccan clay pot that you cook stews with
         | that is enclosed except for a spout at the top) for cooking and
         | I found out it had lead in the glazing. A lot of the decorative
         | ones do of course, but this one was specifically for cooking
         | and came with instructions for "seasoning" it where you soak it
         | over night and then slowly heat it up so it gets broken in
         | without cracking.
        
         | stiray wrote:
         | This is exactly what my wife said (also doing the pottery).
         | Lead glazes are never used unless you use it for some "special
         | effects" or you are playing it cheap.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | > or you are playing it cheap
           | 
           | Shouldn't we assume all this mass-produced pottery found on
           | the shelves of Walmart and Bed Bath & Beyond is being made as
           | cheaply as possible?
           | 
           | I don't know about you, but the only time I see non-MADE IN
           | CHINA pottery these days is used, at the thrift store. New
           | stuff isn't generally coming from some domestic artisan who
           | cares about poisoning their neighbors more than a bigger
           | profit.
        
         | washadjeffmad wrote:
         | I do some work with a national ceramics circle, and you're
         | right, use of leaded glazes is uncommon and explicitly reserved
         | for non-food-contact pieces. Unless they do restoration or
         | period-work, it's about as common to see as leaded aviation
         | fuel in a regular car owner's garage or someone reusing acid
         | from a battery.
         | 
         | ASTM D-4236 conforming glazes will contain warning labels that
         | clearly indicate that they are "non-toxic" or "dinnerware
         | safe".
        
           | hamburglar wrote:
           | I'm sure this is an ignorant question, but what's the
           | incentive for using leaded glazes at all? Do they perform
           | better?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | stephencanon wrote:
             | It performs extremely well; lead glazes can be fired at
             | lower temperatures, produce smoother and glossier finishes
             | with fewer flaws, and prevents crystallization (that's
             | desirable in some glazes, but you don't want it all the
             | time). I'm probably forgetting a few other benefits.
             | 
             | Of course, toxicity means that it pretty much isn't used
             | any more, so alternatives have been developed. They're just
             | harder to work with.
        
               | mattchamb wrote:
               | It also allows you to produce some colors of glaze that
               | are hard otherwise.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | > but you are very, very unlikely to have this problem with
         | people who make pottery for a living
         | 
         | Amazon clearly doesn't use a mater compiler either. They buy
         | their mugs from people who make pottery for a living. Perhaps
         | the distinction is different? Maybe people who make pottery for
         | a living in the developed world? Or perhaps people who make
         | pottery for a living at smaller scales?
        
           | ldoughty wrote:
           | At least my view is that if someone is selling pottery on
           | Amazon, it's about quantity... And at scale, the cost savings
           | might be worth something....
           | 
           | It's not even a thing you usually find in stores as a
           | hobbiest in the states.. if someone is using lead, it's going
           | to be most commonly a cost cutting measure... Or for a
           | specialist purpose
        
           | jacoblambda wrote:
           | There's a bit of a distinction between people who make
           | pottery for a living and people who run factories that churn
           | out pottery.
           | 
           | When the focus is mass production it stops being a
           | craftsman's job and rather becomes a calculated process
           | designed to extract as much profit as possible with little
           | regard for anything else.
        
       | Yizahi wrote:
       | If the tea and coffee comes with lead poisoning, well, screw it,
       | I'll take it :)
        
       | reducesuffering wrote:
       | Just wait until you start testing all the brass-looking metal
       | material in your home from before the 80s... Lamps, door handles,
       | stained glass, it's endless
        
       | Dowwie wrote:
       | "Overall, the potential for lead ingestion from contaminated
       | ceramic mugs is minimal when compared to other sources, such as
       | food. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
       | (ATSDR) reported that the average daily intake of lead from food
       | sources in the general population is approximately 56.5 mg/day
       | (ATSDR 2007a). In comparison, the maximum daily lead intake from
       | drinking 3.3 eight-ounce cups of coffee based on the data
       | collected in our study resulted in a dose of 6.71 mg, over eight
       | times less than the average daily lead intake from food.
       | Nonetheless, exposure to lead should be minimized to the extent
       | possible"
        
       | cbfrench wrote:
       | This is why I'm a big fan of Fiestaware. It has a sort of fun
       | retro vibe, but it also specifies that it's "lead free" on it.
       | (At least the stuff I've had for the last decade does. But I
       | think it's been lead free for most, if not all, of its history.)
        
         | acidburnNSA wrote:
         | Yeah and the slightly radioactive antique orange color helps
         | sterilize the contents.
        
       | clavicat wrote:
       | So that's why I'm retarded.
        
       | tvb12 wrote:
       | It specifies that the source of the lead is the paint or glaze. I
       | didn't think lead paint was still a thing, but some quick
       | googling is making me a little nervous... It seems quite a few
       | modern mugs contain some amount of lead.
        
         | spekcular wrote:
         | Note it's not just lead, but also cadmium for bright colors.
         | Trendy cookware manufacturer Le Creuset uses cadmium in many of
         | their hues, for example. Many other enameled and ceramic
         | cookware manufacturers do too.
         | 
         | Some test results: https://tamararubin.com/2019/02/made-in-
         | france-c-2013-yellow....
        
           | kurthr wrote:
           | Although to be fair the interior surface is white and came in
           | at ~30pm/150ppm Pb/Cd less than 1/100th compared to the
           | bottom flame surface of the pan. I'd wonder whether modern
           | 2020 Le Creuset has similar numbers to this 2013 pan.
           | 
           | It's still not as low as I'd like for a simmering pot/dutch
           | oven, but it is clearly in the decorative outer coating. Also
           | not surprising Cadmium's in bright yellow... lucky it's not
           | Uranium!
        
             | randomNumber7 wrote:
             | Once upon a time uranium was used to make glass bright
             | green.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_glass
        
               | kurthr wrote:
               | Uranium oxide was also used quite commonly in a ceramic
               | glaze for bright yellows and reds:
               | 
               | https://www.artsy.net/artwork/lucie-rie-lucie-rie-rare-
               | urani...
        
           | AuryGlenz wrote:
           | That's incredibly frustrating. You shouldn't need to worry
           | about things like that from a high end manufacturer.
        
             | spekcular wrote:
             | It's unclear to me whether one should worry, assuming the
             | glaze is intact. The cookware passes California prop 65
             | standards (extremely stringent). The coloration with the
             | high cadmium levels is not on a surface that contacts food,
             | and even if it was, I don't know that it would leach. But
             | we have no way of knowing without expensive testing!
             | 
             | However, even if we ignore the possibility of harm to the
             | end user, I think the author of that blog makes a great
             | point: "By using high levels of Cadmium in manufacturing,
             | Le Creuset has - apparently for decades - been causal in
             | contributing to "the demand for" the mining, refining and
             | manufacturing of a toxic pigment that can (and does) poison
             | others (workers, communities, waterways, the planet)
             | through various processes/at multiple points throughout
             | their manufactured products' life cycles."
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Did they test how much of it actually ends up in cooked food?
           | Also, those numbers don't tell me much, I want to know how
           | this compares to lethal/toxic dose etc.
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | I switched to stainless steel a long time ago. Only use ceramics
       | as decoration or to hold fruit
        
         | laumars wrote:
         | Stainless steal has lead in too. Is there any research that
         | compares stainless steal to ceramics?
         | 
         | Edit: ignore me. I'm confusing lead with iron. That'll teach me
         | posting while drinking.
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | Lead is not used to make stainless steel.
        
       | ajhurliman wrote:
       | The title appears neutral, but I can't help but think "I've
       | definitely been unwittingly poisoning myself" when I read it. But
       | then in the findings it basically says it's a complete non-issue.
       | I wish they would have included the findings in the title, it
       | feels like click-bait.
        
         | eganist wrote:
         | > The title appears neutral, but I can't help but think "I've
         | definitely been unwittingly poisoning myself"
         | 
         | Probably because this abridged title isn't neutral (flagged
         | accordingly). By simply stating "Lead exposure from [x]," the
         | implication is that impactful exposure risk exists.
         | 
         | The original title and even the condensed title (everything
         | after the colon scrubbed) were both at least 18 characters too
         | long, but a better abridgement of the title would've been "A
         | pilot study to assess lead exposure from routine consumption
         | from ceramic mugs" scrubbing the coffee/tea reference as the
         | subject happens to be the mugs themselves
        
           | smarx007 wrote:
           | "An assessment of lead exposure from routine consumption of
           | coffee and tea from ceramic mugs" should have been fine too.
        
             | eganist wrote:
             | True
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | smarx007 wrote:
         | There is an abstract in every academic paper and this paper had
         | this bit in the abstract: "The estimated daily dose of lead
         | exceeded the California Maximum Allowable Dose Level of 0.5 mg
         | per day for one of the five mugs tested. Blood lead levels did
         | not increase above regulatory or guidance values.". As others
         | have written, "Blood lead levels did not increase" does not
         | mean there is no long-term health problem, it was simply
         | outside the scope of the publication. Academic paper titles are
         | almost always describe what the paper is about, not what the
         | conclusion is. Academics don't do frontloading, thankfully.
         | 
         | Edit: to look into the title further, you can see that it
         | starts with "A _pilot_ study". This can indicate that the
         | sample size of 5 mugs was not a mistake and the main purpose of
         | the paper is to get feedback on the methodology and a larger
         | follow-up study may be underway and we shouldn't be deriving
         | any (health-related) conclusions from this paper.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | For UK readers, here is the regulation around amount of lead and
       | cadmium in ceramics that are in contact with food.
       | 
       | https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1179/made
       | 
       | I'm not 100% sure of the maximum safe lead per day, though I did
       | find this
       | 
       | https://www.hse.gov.uk/lead/health-effects.htm
       | 
       | > The occupational exposure limit for lead in air set out in the
       | Regulations is 0.15 mg/m3, and blood lead suspension levels for
       | males and females are 60 and 30ug/dl, respectively. For young
       | workers (under 18) the blood lead suspension limit is 50 mg/dl.
       | 
       | But someone with better dotUKfu may provide a better source!
        
         | throwawayboise wrote:
         | There's no "safe" level for lead exposure. The levels are for
         | when various types of action are required.
        
           | ezekiel68 wrote:
           | That's a good sound bite, but -- if taken literally -- we
           | have sadly evolved upon the wrong planet. Yes, we should
           | minimize lead exposure but there is no actionable way for
           | even 30% of the Earth's population to live at blood lead
           | levels lower than 5 ug/dl.
        
       | fredophile wrote:
       | I briefly looked at the article but don't see anything actionable
       | from what it said.
       | 
       | I could buy lead testing kits and check out all of my mugs at
       | home. It looks like that would cost around $40 a test which seems
       | a bit high for checking every mug I own given the low risk
       | indicated in the link.
        
       | ezekiel68 wrote:
       | _Blood lead levels did not increase above regulatory or guidance
       | values._
       | 
       | And this was _after_ screening for the mugs with the highest
       | concentrations of lead in their ceramic glaze. I think we 're
       | done here.
        
       | 5tefan wrote:
       | Well. Gotta die from something anyway. Cannot avoid all that's
       | around us nowadays or I'll die trying within a week from now.
       | Seems to be the deal in our modern world.
       | 
       | Also good to read the comments from real pottery artists to put
       | it into perspective.
        
       | ineedasername wrote:
       | _> The five mugs chosen for this study were selected because they
       | were found to contain lead in a screening-level assessment.
       | Specifically, 24 mugs from the authors' office were tested_
       | 
       | This is an interesting (and maybe not too rigorous) method of
       | selecting research samples, and points towards the need for
       | another study: How representative was this 5:24 ratio of lead
       | bearing mugs? Greater or less than what you would find in the
       | broader mug population?
       | 
       | It's also fun to imagine how the researchers came about this:
       | 
       | --Was it boredom? ("Hey Shannon, I'm in between projects, how
       | about we go see if there's anything in the kitchen area that
       | could be dangerous?")
       | 
       | --Maybe serendipitous? ("Shannon, I just read an excellent novel
       | that happened to mention the role that lead plays in ceramics an
       | enamel finishes. Let's have go at the office mug collection and
       | see what we find!")
       | 
       | --Brute force? ("Lead seems to get into everything these days...
       | let's test every single thing in the office.")
        
       | Aerroon wrote:
       | Whenever I see studies/articles like this I wonder what is the
       | safest material to eat from and store food in? My thinking always
       | defaulted to glass. If it has been good enough for chemistry for
       | hundreds of years perhaps it's good enough for food. But some
       | glass also contains lead.
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | Standard borosilicate glass. Metal ions are more reactive than
         | their glass counterparts (because they already have their
         | oxygen;)).
        
         | jrootabega wrote:
         | Magnetic bottle. Great for fusion cuisine.
         | 
         | But seriously, my lay understanding is that PTFE is one of the
         | safest things that could exist, for some substances/activities
         | at least.
        
           | simlevesque wrote:
           | My understanding is that PTFE never reacts with anything, but
           | you can scratch it and ingest some of it which is bad too.
        
             | evv555 wrote:
             | The coating of these containers often contain chemicals
             | like BPA so you can't trust a PTFE container is safe even
             | if you trust PTFE.
        
           | bruce343434 wrote:
           | it (the teflon layer on your pan)'s a carcinogen when it
           | inevitably gets scratched off and intermixed with the food,
           | however.
        
           | lstodd wrote:
           | Nonono, polyethylene and PET are the best. PTFE has this
           | vicious fluorine atom there.
           | 
           | (being serious, the article is blatant clickbait, ceramics
           | are just fine, spectroscopy can detect parts-per-billion and
           | that says nothing about actual harm, while linear-no-
           | threshold theories are shit.
           | 
           | --
           | 
           | and we're worrying so much that our health suffers more from
           | worries than from most anything else)
        
         | Cerium wrote:
         | White porcelain is quite safe. If it rings when you hit it with
         | a finger then it was fired at a high enough temperature that
         | lead could not have been used in the glaze.
        
         | potiuper wrote:
         | Glass is heavy & fragile, wrapping it in a rubber material
         | makes it hard to clean leaving places for bacteria. Acidic food
         | does not work well with metals like aluminum along with
         | stainless steel that leaches nickel and chromium. Plastic 1, 2,
         | 4 & 5 kept away from heat are likely the best, but avoiding
         | additives including stabilizers and phthalates is difficult.
        
           | lstodd wrote:
           | If bacterial contamination is suspected, liberal application
           | of ethyl alcohol is advised.
        
         | poulsbohemian wrote:
         | I like cast iron, stainless steel, or ceramic coated (think Le
         | Creuset) for cooking surfaces, with glass for storage. For some
         | items, waxed paper/fabric is a good storage. For now, I'm using
         | reusable silicone bags for some items until such time as
         | research shows that's not a good idea. I know there's a ton of
         | food grade plastics used in commercial food production, but in
         | my own kitchen I try to stay away from plastics.
        
         | scythe wrote:
         | Titanium has a strong argument. It's less thermally conductive
         | than steel or aluminium (so Ti is not great for pots, despite
         | being occasionally advertised as such, but this is an advantage
         | for plates), famously biocompatible, and highly corrosion
         | resistant. It won't break into sharp pieces. Your standard
         | Ti-6Al-4V alloy has a problem but there are other chemistries.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | stainless steel?
        
           | evv555 wrote:
           | Most metal food containers are coated with plastics like BPA.
           | You can't trust "BPA free" labels because there are now
           | analog compounds in use. For example this is what a dissolved
           | coke can looks like.[1]
           | 
           | 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQHFQoFoxvQ
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >Most metal food containers are coated with plastics like
             | BPA
             | 
             | I doubt it. I put my stainless steel containers in the oven
             | with no ill effects, so there probably isn't some plastic
             | coating on them. Are you confusing _disposable_ metal food
             | containers (eg. aluminum cans) with stainless steel bowls
             | /cups?
        
               | evv555 wrote:
               | Specifically I had something like this in mind.[1]
               | Granted that article is about reusable aluminum bottles
               | but stainless steel can have its own coatings like
               | teflon. It's not unreasonable to believe your stainless
               | steel bowls are a safe choice but it takes a surprising
               | amount of effort to verify if that's the case given
               | precedents like these.
               | 
               | 1. https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20110712/some-
               | aluminum-water...
        
               | maxerickson wrote:
               | It's kind of weird to be talking about aluminum packaging
               | in response to a question and comment about stainless
               | steel home storage containers and serving dishes.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Stainless is passivated and its surface is mainly oxides of
           | chromium and nickel. They aren't great for storage because
           | over time they leach chromium and nickel into acidic foods.
           | Glass is altogether superior.
        
             | evv555 wrote:
             | There's a reason why most chemistry equipment is made out
             | of glass.
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | Cannabis consumers have know for a long time that colored glass
       | pipes and bongs and the like are also suspicious, particularly if
       | you don't know the maker and their process, for the same reasons.
       | 
       | Clear glass might look boring, but it's a lot safer!
        
         | canadaduane wrote:
         | Boring borosilicate glass is the best. Strong, heat resistant,
         | and very safe.
        
           | xaduha wrote:
           | There's a lot of soda-lime glass too though. Maybe not that
           | crucial, but they don't seem to indicate on the surface what
           | it is made of like they do with plastics.
        
       | X6S1x6Okd1st wrote:
       | Blood lead levels did not increase above regulatory or guidance
       | values.
        
         | civilized wrote:
         | All blood lead is bad and levels well below guidance have
         | measurable cognitive effects in children. So this is worth
         | knowing about.
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-18 23:02 UTC)