[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Can web scraping be the basis of a viable bu...
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       Ask HN: Can web scraping be the basis of a viable business model?
        
       I'm a data engineer at heart, and I never did or enjoyed front-end
       work. Having said that I always was happy to code and evolve
       crawlers and web scrapers. Now I've taken some time off from work
       and gigs and I'm working on a side-project I've been hacking for
       some time.  Without getting into the details yet: it aims to make
       web data collection a little bit easier for non-devs. I'll soon
       have an MVP and will start pitching to investors: aiming for an
       open-source business model (after a few months of stealth
       development) and eventually a typical SaaS offering for extra
       functionality.  At this point I'm trying to consolidate and counter
       the steel-man counter-arguments I should expect from investors. The
       most obvious one: as one can imagine, the product it's not magic
       and, after a certain point it does require some manual work from
       the customer, hence this is an aspect I should prepare for.  I have
       done some preliminary analysis of the space of potential
       competitors (think import.io, Apify, Zyte/ScarpingHub, etc.) and
       described opportunities for differentiation. What I'm afraid of is
       getting sidetracked in a discussion of "um, this is web scraping
       and it's hard to make a business on top of it".  I understand that
       there's not much context now and one could easily say "well yeah,
       anything could be possible with a good team, product...", but I'm
       reaching out to the HN community to gather some considerations,
       mental models and pointers, I may not think of myself at this
       point.
        
       Author : fforflo
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2021-12-18 15:25 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
       | kccqzy wrote:
       | Of course. See Yodlee and Plaid.
        
       | tixocloud wrote:
       | There are many data providers serving the financial
       | services/capital markets sector that provide everything from raw
       | data feeds to insights based off of web-scraped data. What will
       | be important for you is to identify a good niche, understand
       | which part of the data value chain your customer needs, and
       | deliver the data in a way that fits their workflow.
       | 
       | The value is in the decisions that can be made based on the data
       | being sold rather than the method at which you extract it from.
       | If you focus on the value of the data and who needs it, you'll
       | likely find a viable business model.
        
       | shtopointo wrote:
       | And to answer your question, because my other post was a question
       | itself:
       | 
       | > after a certain point it does require some manual work from the
       | customer
       | 
       | Once you gain traction, you can become a platform, intermediary
       | between customers and engineers that will fine tune scraping to
       | what the customer needs. This could either be some sort of
       | "Solution Engineer" that the company hires, or open it up to
       | outside developers that get paid per integration (either by you
       | or by the customer, or both). There's a solution to every
       | problem.
       | 
       | As far as the business itself, I think you could be on to
       | something. Of course, ideas are cheap and it's the execution that
       | counts, but here's how I'd think about it: with scraping, every
       | website on the web has an API. Before, only 0.1% of websites had
       | an API.
       | 
       | And certainly wouldn't hurt to change the "scraping" word - such
       | an ugly word.
        
       | thruway516 wrote:
       | Never mind business, a web-scraping command-line utility as
       | comprehensive and easy to use as say curl would be something. I
       | would even pay for that.
        
       | adinosaur123 wrote:
       | I don't wish to hijack this thread, but I've been pondering a
       | similar question. I've been working on a product that requires a
       | very large amount of data that, as far as I can tell, can only be
       | gathered by scraping (real estate data - even data vendors like
       | estated.com don't have stuff like sales data).
       | 
       | Many, many websites contain legal language that forbids automatic
       | data collection/scraping. How can a business be built in such a
       | case?
       | 
       | Perhaps OPs tool only scrapes a select few sites that _don 't_
       | prohibit scraping, but that seems like the exception, not the
       | norm.
        
         | GhettoComputers wrote:
         | Do it manually. I wonder what automatically means legally or
         | scraping. It's pretty hard to enforce those requirements,
         | because I assume it's being broken by search providers.
         | 
         | If it's a derivative work like copilot, I wonder if there's a
         | legal case to say you can't do it. I assume you're doing
         | something like an RSS feed for pricing suggestions with
         | commissions? I just looked this up and it seems like it's legal
         | to do so but their information is copyrighted.
         | https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/15556/is-scraping-re...
        
         | nlh wrote:
         | Read up on LinkedIn vs. HiQ. As long as that ruling holds (and
         | it might not), the tl;dr is: If it's on the open web, you can
         | scrape it. You might be violating some Terms of Service (that
         | you never agreed to), but you're not violating (US) law.
         | 
         | If it's NOT on the public web - e.g. it's behind a login, then
         | you can be sued, as you'll have had to explicitly agree to
         | Terms of Service during your account creation and you'll then
         | be in explicit violation of that ToS.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | Are you falling in love with the code?
       | 
       | I think you'll have a lot more luck finding 2-3 initial customers
       | before you try to raise money. It's always easier to explain what
       | your product does, and who the target market is, in terms of
       | actual customers; instead of hypotheticals.
       | 
       | Remember, the goal is to build a business. If you fall in love
       | with the code, it's too easy to build something you enjoy working
       | on, but has limited commercial value.
        
         | fforflo wrote:
         | Am I falling in love with the code? I'd say we're on the 2nd
         | date .... I may even get lucky. But it's enough to make me hang
         | up on recruiters (respectfully).
         | 
         | Good point though. Bootstrapping is a viable option too, but
         | fundraising has certain no non-financial benefits that can be
         | appealing.
        
       | rank0 wrote:
       | Some major issues from my experience web scraping:
       | 
       | 1. Changes in data structures. If some site randomly decides to
       | alter the format of their json/xml objects for their frontend api
       | it may brake your scraper and anything that relies on that
       | scraper's output.
       | 
       | 2. Security controls like rate limiting, captcha, ip
       | blacklisting, auth systems.
       | 
       | 3. Html which is rendered via complicated client side JavaScript
       | blobs or web sockets. You'll need a Headless browser engine like
       | selenium and some site-specific parsing logic.
       | 
       | 4. Legal issues.
        
       | sonofhans wrote:
       | I worked at AboutUs.org for a while, and that's what we did. Good
       | news: it was fun and rewarding. In many ways it felt like a
       | satisfying old-skool problem: scrape, find edge case, patch it,
       | scrape again. We were scraping 100 million domains once a week
       | with a team of six engineers, one UX (me), and Ward Fucking
       | Cunningham as wiki expert. Ward in particular was great at
       | prototyping solutions.
       | 
       | It is an arms race, since many people don't want you to scrape.
       | We tried hard to respect robots.txt, but we still got angry
       | cease-and-desist emails from people who'd malformed or
       | misconfigured the file.
       | 
       | You will have a scale problem: it's a lot of data. You'll have
       | parsing problems: live HTML is about the dirtiest data set I've
       | ever seen. Refresh rate can be a major competitive advantage: how
       | often can you scrape, store, diff, and report? These days you'll
       | need first-class JavaScript execution to catch dynamic content.
       | 
       | But the biggest problem isn't the scraping tech, it's the use
       | case -- what uses cases are you going to afford your early users?
       | You don't mention this in your post, and it will non-trivially
       | affect what you scrape and how you report it. I'd encourage you
       | to find users who have business problems that can be solved by
       | paying money for scraping. Otherwise you'll be another
       | interesting open source tool that no one's figured out how to
       | monetize. Do this _before_ you talk to investors or take their
       | money.
        
         | eatonphil wrote:
         | People make their own blogs and sites with React and other
         | JavaScript frameworks all the time now... It won't even be
         | actually dynamic content before you need to be able to execute
         | JavaScript.
        
       | max002 wrote:
       | From what i know thats how skyscanner started, not sure if ita
       | very popular in US, but it is in Europe. Now they're
       | paying/having deqls for data, but they started with scraping the
       | hell out of airline sites.
        
       | ethor wrote:
       | In my opinion you should start with defining your value
       | proposition and target market, i.e. how do I create value for
       | customers, and who are my customers?
        
       | martini333 wrote:
       | Yes.
        
       | test0account wrote:
       | Is Google not just one massive web scraper?
        
       | edmundsauto wrote:
       | Yes, although I would encourage you to think about something
       | higher on the value chain than raw data feeds. Those exist and
       | have become an increasingly difficult market to compete in. You
       | can buy a custom feed for like $250/mo.
       | 
       | Instead, think about what people want to do with the data. For
       | example, if you are going to scrape diamond prices, don't try to
       | sell that feed. Set up a website with a UI so people can research
       | diamond prices, and get alerts when specific thresholds are met
       | or items come in stock. Monetize with ads.
        
         | stef25 wrote:
         | Like camelcamelcamel.com I guess?
        
       | bitshaker wrote:
       | It is for openexchangerates.org
       | 
       | Makes the founder a hefty sum.
        
       | ChikkaChiChi wrote:
       | Scraping services on their own are a viable business product, but
       | the power to assign metadata and contextualization is where the
       | unicorn lies.
       | 
       | The service itself will always be in flux because of how freeform
       | hypertext is as a schema. So many other comments here reflect
       | that better than I could.
       | 
       | The fact is that any chunk of data you're handing over to clients
       | still needs to be handled by their team and in my experience
       | reality often falls short of expectations. If you can somehow
       | deliver them something cleaner (or even something that can help
       | them reach conclusions faster), then you have a product with a
       | high value prop.
        
       | nojs wrote:
       | I cofounded a company based on scraping academic publications. We
       | ended up getting a lot of traffic (millions of pageviews per
       | month) because we had good SEO, but it's not necessarily a
       | defensible business model by itself.
       | 
       | You'll likely have to do more manual data cleaning than you
       | expect, and get some amount of pushback from the sources you're
       | crawling (depending how commercially valuable the data is).
        
       | bjourne wrote:
       | Web scraping is a legal gray area in many or most jurisdictions.
       | In some jurisdictions, depending on the tos of the web site
       | itself, scraping it might be illegal. In others republishing the
       | scraped information in any form might be illegal. In others still
       | you might not be allowed to use the scraped data for any
       | commercial purpose.
       | 
       | "But what about Google?" Google is worth 100 billion dollars and
       | can play by completely different rules than scraping startups.
        
         | stef25 wrote:
         | Google also plays nice. I manage a few sites that get hammered
         | by scrapers to the extent that it causes big spikes in CPU,
         | something that doesn't happen with G.
        
           | that_guy_iain wrote:
           | So many people don't even think about number of requests and
           | often want the job to end as quickly as possible. For me,
           | that is thinking short term, I've seen requests per second as
           | low as 4 cause performance issues for a company. If you want
           | to scrape long term you need to think requests per minute.
           | That is unless you're dealing with a mega site then it's
           | keeping a low request per second.
        
         | tempestn wrote:
         | Yeah, I was going to say something like this. And one step
         | better than Google, but still challenging, there are also a lot
         | of sites out there that prohibit scraping but make an exception
         | for "general purpose search engines". So if you're providing a
         | specialized scraper that's used for specific purposes, you'd
         | likely run into problems there too.
         | 
         | As well as the actual legal challenges, you'll also have the
         | perception thereof, which could make businesses wary of relying
         | on your services.
        
       | sjg007 wrote:
       | It is valuable. There's a lot of Robotic Process Automation,
       | competitive analysis etc...
       | 
       | >the product it's not magic and, after a certain point it does
       | require some manual work from the customer, hence this is an
       | aspect I should prepare for.
       | 
       | Can you make it magic or maybe develop end to end solutions for
       | your first "customers" using your product? That sounds like the
       | schlep you need to do.
       | 
       | Sounds promising! Find yourself a customer or two!
       | 
       | If you really want to go the open source route, just focus on
       | that and then see if people pick it up and use it. Then you'd
       | offer the SaaS.
        
       | authed wrote:
       | Scraping user content or recipes should be fine.
        
       | itake wrote:
       | You might want to look at web scraping for data scientists. I am
       | trying to build a ML Model for NSFW text detection in multiple
       | languages and I am not looking forward to scraping p*rn and
       | youtube websites for comments.
        
         | stef25 wrote:
         | You probably need NSFW text which is its own niche and should
         | be straight forward to collect?
        
         | exdsq wrote:
         | Could you expand on this a little? What's the problem and what
         | are you looking for as a solution?
        
       | markl42 wrote:
       | Maybe only kinda sorta relevant, but I interned at RefME for a
       | summer - basically a Zotero competitor. There was a lot of value
       | (for users) in scraping web pages to autofill to author, title,
       | date etc so it could generate the references, something I started
       | to work on (but then they got bought out so not sure what ended
       | up happening)
       | 
       | Any I could've imagining this being a paid pro feature down the
       | line
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | Did it back in the old days, scraping stock quotes to build a
       | database for display by our Java app and web services. Called
       | NetProphet, it would do a score of trend lines etc as overlays.
       | 
       | I wrote the scraping code. Had a list of sites and macros for
       | extracting quotes, updated every day to every customer. If one
       | quit working (the site attempted to prevent scraping) the app
       | would use another and give a notice back to me. I'd tweak the
       | macro for that site, and we'd be back scraping it the next day.
       | 
       | We eventually hired a finance student (Josh Hatwich, now a fellow
       | at Adobe) to parse a Comstock satellite feed we put on the roof.
       | That ended the era of scraping at StockPoint.
        
       | gtsop wrote:
       | Point them to the disgusting but successful pracrices of
       | ClearviewAI. That should do it.
        
       | launchiterate wrote:
       | Yes if you point it at a well defined target market and create a
       | solution.
        
       | mukundesh wrote:
       | Not sure if this company survived the pandemic but check out
       | Applaudience it was crawling seat level data from event websites.
       | 
       | https://www.screendaily.com/features/how-uk-data-company-app...
       | 
       | Applaudience's algorithms trawl through every exhibitor website,
       | looking at every showtime of every film, and tracks the
       | auditorium layout as each seat flips from available (unsold) to
       | unavailable (sold).
        
       | wombatpm wrote:
       | If your potential customers are willing to pay to scrape data,
       | why aren't they will to pay for the data from the source
       | directly? Is it not available or is it considered exclusive or
       | proprietary. I'm thinking about the lawsuits around deep linking
       | and TicketMaster. Web scraping at scale is a never ending arms
       | race because designs evolve or the host is actively trying to
       | thwart you.
        
         | fforflo wrote:
         | I like these two questions! They can crystallise things.
         | 
         | Wasn't aware of the Ticketmaster v. Tickets.com case. Will have
         | to print it along the SCOTUS LinkedIn v. hiQ ruling.
        
         | max002 wrote:
         | So for new companies the data (that a lot of time IS publicly
         | available) cost a lot of money, i.e. Api access or charing per
         | requests. A lot of time companies start with scraping and then
         | once they have more customers (and data access price can be
         | shared amongst them) they switch to paying for it.
        
       | apienx wrote:
       | Google, a trillion dollar company, is essentially the world's
       | largest web scraper. So...yes! You'll almost certainly find a way
       | to monetize that.
       | 
       | Monopolies, lobbying and protectionism got in the way of keeping
       | the web truly machine readable. There's tremendous value in
       | restoring some of it.
        
         | dbtc wrote:
         | Web scraping is just one way to get the data to facilitate the
         | sale and service of ads.
        
         | fforflo wrote:
         | > keeping the web truly machine readable. There's tremendous
         | value in restoring some of it.
         | 
         | :-)
        
         | elliottinvent wrote:
         | > Monopolies, lobbying and protectionism got in the way of
         | keeping the web truly machine readable.
         | 
         | Exactly and that ship has long since sailed. The good ship Web
         | 3.0 (semantic web) launched in '99 and was a ghost ship until
         | recently when it was boarded by crypto pirates now flying the
         | web 3.0 flag.
         | 
         | > There's tremendous value in restoring some of it.
         | 
         | To this comment and OP, my startup is using web scraping to
         | pre-populate machine-readable data for a DNS-based protocol
         | called NUM [0]. So as others have said, whilst web scraping
         | itself may be difficult to build into a viable business, it can
         | be a key component of a viable business. Email in my profile if
         | you want to discuss.
         | 
         | 0. https://num.uk/blog/we-crawled-5m-uk-websites-and-
         | published-...
        
           | melony wrote:
           | Web3 (without the decimal point) these days usually refer to
           | internet Ponzi schemes.
        
       | max002 wrote:
       | My only advice would be have a backup plan (redundancy) . I.e.
       | Design basic version that works and dont get blocked as bot, then
       | design another one. This will save you from situation like
       | described below where your original method stopped working, but
       | your client wants data now (because yjey pay for it). And be
       | nice, dont take data you dont need. Keep it easy on servers.
        
       | deanebarker wrote:
       | There was a company in my city that did something like this. They
       | didn't survive.
       | 
       | They crawled the data, but also had a services component to do
       | something with the data. Like, they had contracts with pharma
       | companies to search for indications that a page was selling
       | counterfeit drugs.
       | 
       | I'm not sure of the exact details of why they didn't make it.
       | 
       | Also, I'm thinking about Recorded Future
       | (https://www.recordedfuture.com). They do something like this --
       | again, the mechanics of scraping, and a services component for
       | analysis.
        
       | bootcat wrote:
       | I think yes, web scraping can give a viable product. Now with the
       | ability to scrape react/js pages and availability of 24GB cloud
       | free tier machines and transformer models - i think atleast for
       | the next 5 years, should be possible !
        
       | asimjalis wrote:
       | Another example is Zillow which scrapes public records. Public
       | records have some advantages.
        
       | subpixel wrote:
       | Pitch your investors the VPN business. That's what web scraping
       | is at scale - a series of networking techniques that allow users
       | to do what they want without being blocked.
        
       | katzgrau wrote:
       | Ultimately people want information from scraping, because to a
       | lot of businesses, the information is what's valuable.
       | 
       | Consider, apart from a tool for general purpose scraping, what
       | information a specialized scraper might obtain for a valuable but
       | underserved industry that can profit from the data.
       | 
       | I have a buddy that scrapes data specifically for the
       | tanker/shipping industry, for example.
       | 
       | General purpose scraping will involve a lot of competition and a
       | bit of an arms race. Niche scraping lets you fly a little below
       | the radar.
        
       | eruci wrote:
       | Yes! Everybody scrapes everybody. The difference lies on what
       | they do with the data afterwards.
        
       | xedarius wrote:
       | I went for an interview once at a hedge fund. There were a
       | surprising amount of questions about web scraping. I very much
       | got the feeling it was an active and ongoing problem. So yes I do
       | think there's a business in there.
        
         | fforflo wrote:
         | Having recently worked for a hedge fund I noticed that too -
         | although my idea predated that engagement . That's probably my
         | first go-to market (if anyone has leads send me end email) .
         | 
         | Hedge funds actually call this "alternative data".
        
           | dreyfan wrote:
           | If you worked for a hedge fund and you know they purchase
           | scraped data from quite a number of vendors then why are you
           | asking if it's a viable business model?
           | 
           | Of course it is.
        
         | lubujackson wrote:
         | AFAIK Plaid does a fair bit of old school scraping behind the
         | scenes - a lot of the "nice new web" is built on the backs of
         | old kludgy websites doing the same scraping things people were
         | doing 20 years ago.
         | 
         | Finance/banks are especially... inconsistent, to say the least.
        
       | wcerfgba wrote:
       | You've already identified some of your competitors, you should go
       | in to more detail and try to answer:
       | 
       | * What features are common among my competitors?
       | 
       | * What features are unique?
       | 
       | * Who are target customers and users? Is there any overlap, or do
       | some competitors target unique market segments?
       | 
       | This last question ties in to a discussion I was having with a
       | friend recently. In B2B sales, your customers are businesses, but
       | your users are people in those businesses with certain roles and
       | responsibilities. Understanding the difference is key, because
       | you will often need to develop your sales and marketing
       | strategies based on the business/customer profile, but your UX
       | will depend on the needs of the users within those businesses.
       | 
       | In my opinion you are more likely to be successful if you can get
       | an initial foothold in a market by identifying a specific target
       | of customers and users, solving their use case very well,
       | developing a moat, and then growing out from that foothold to
       | provide a wider set of options. Web scraping is just a tool. You
       | need to find businesses who can gain value from scraping or from
       | scraped data. Are there businesses who, for whatever reason,
       | would not be able to adopt one of your competitors' products, or
       | would find that adoption difficult? Maybe you could specialise in
       | scraping a particular kind of data, or providing a full-stack
       | solution for companies with limited in-house technical expertise
       | (like some kind of consulting, you hop on a call with the client,
       | they tell you what they want to scrape, and you set up a hosted
       | solution which provides a SQL or Excel interface to the data).
       | 
       | In short, successful product development is all about
       | understanding customer and user pain and needs. If you can find
       | pains or needs which are a common theme for a particular
       | demographic of companies and roles, you can work with those
       | people to understand their problems and make a product which is
       | very valuable to them.
        
         | fforflo wrote:
         | Thanks a lot for your comment.
         | 
         | You're exactly right on the tricky relationship between
         | developers as internal ambassadors to businesses - customers. I
         | think it somehow applies to almost any developer-facing tool.
         | 
         | Your recommendation to focus on a specific vertical at first
         | makes sense too. Helps prioritising the backlog as well.
        
       | mrleinad wrote:
       | An online law editorial I used to work at around 10 years ago
       | basically scraped free available content from different sources
       | around the web, repackaged it, and sold it online via
       | subscription model. They're still around.
        
       | erichocean wrote:
       | Scraping isn't the problem, it's getting access to the pages _to_
       | scrape at high-enough volume, at low-enough cost.
        
       | tommoor wrote:
       | ClearBit and Plaid haven't been mentioned yet - both examples of
       | multi-million/billion dollar business built on the back of
       | scraping.
       | 
       | The more specialized you can get the better chances of success
       | imo. Generic web scrapers are dime-a-dozen
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | Yes, but scraping is a small part of the overall puzzle. As
       | developers, we overestimate how valuable tools are (as opposed to
       | solutions). I think the better opportunity is not to be another
       | scraping-as-a-service provider, but to niche down to a solution
       | that uses your scraping technology.
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | If you start yet another scraping-as-a-service provider, you're
         | attempting to provide a paid service for people who just want
         | to steal content for free. Not gonna work.
        
           | that_guy_iain wrote:
           | Scraping as a service can be profitable if you target people
           | who are looking for leads to cold email/spam. Lead gen is one
           | of the few areas you can easily charge $100 as your entry
           | level package and at that price it's very easy to make money
           | if you have half decent marketing.
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | There are legit use cases for browser automation, but a ton
           | of bad actors too. I think your point illuminates something
           | that many fail to fully consider: What are all the ways my
           | service/software can be abused?
        
       | hooande wrote:
       | Web scraping can be a viable business. It depends on what you're
       | scraping and who your customers are.
       | 
       | Are there a couple thousand people who would pay for a SaaS
       | offering? Then it's a business. The real goal would be
       | identifying a hair on fire problem that you are in a unique
       | position to solve. That's always the problem, and it has nothing
       | to do with web scraping in particular.
        
       | gkoberger wrote:
       | Hey! Hopefully this comment comes across as helpful rather than
       | hurtful. I'm also the founder of a developer tool, and it's hard
       | to raise money for! (I know you said yours isn't strictly a
       | developer tool, but you mentioned open source so I think it's
       | fair to assume it falls in this category.)
       | 
       | I think you're missing a step, which is where _you_ answer if web
       | scraping can be a viable business model. You're attempting to
       | convince VCs with logic (and a few assumptions), but there's an
       | easier (or harder) way to do it... convince them by making money.
       | 
       | Most VCs aren't ideologues, and don't have an opinion about
       | business models. They will be convinced if you simply show them
       | you're making money. It's not their job to decide if an idea can
       | make money or not; that's your job as a founder.
       | 
       | I applied to YC twice. The first time we spent the 10 minutes
       | talking about if it could make money or not, and never got
       | anywhere good. We got rejected. The second time we were making
       | money, the conversation was smoother, and we got in. It's so much
       | easier to be able to replace "I believe" with "our customers
       | believe". It changes the conversation completely. You don't need
       | to be making billions of dollars; just enough to show that people
       | want what you're making!
       | 
       | tl;dr You're trying to convince VCs when you need to be
       | convincing customers!
       | 
       | (For the record, a lot of what I said here is very money-driven
       | and that's not how I build my company. However, in the context of
       | VCs, which are purely financially driven, it's how you should be
       | thinking about it.)
       | 
       | Good luck, and let me know if I can help! My email is in my
       | profile if you want to talk!
        
         | fforflo wrote:
         | You're not being hurtful. :) I'll send you an email too, but
         | because others are raising this:
         | 
         | Good point and it's a potential trap of tools built from
         | developers for developers.
         | 
         | There's this fine line between finding it useful and being
         | willing to pay for it. Being honest to my self: Do I find this
         | useful ? Yes Makes my web scraping easier? Yes Would I pay for
         | it? Maybe... but the problem is I've never paid for a scraping
         | tool either.
         | 
         | But other people may pay for it. To get to that point though
         | I'll probably need a few more hands on deck, who need salaries
         | and for that you need external funds.
        
           | gkoberger wrote:
           | Great! Looking forward to talking :)
           | 
           | If I were you, I'd do everything possible to answer your
           | initial question (is web scraping a viable business) before
           | bringing other people and their money into it. Everything
           | gets much, much harder once other people's time and money is
           | involved (both the process of convincing them, AND the
           | potential process of realizing you were wrong).
           | 
           | There's lots of ways to build a business, so take my advice
           | with a grain of salt. But especially if you're worried about
           | it, I'd highly recommend focusing on getting to a few paying
           | customers before involving VCs or employees. If you're here
           | asking that question, you can be sure they will be too (minus
           | the initial conviction you have).
           | 
           | (The one exception is a co-founder! It's lonely starting a
           | company, so you should definitely consider trying to find a
           | co-founder that you love working with.)
        
       | shtopointo wrote:
       | Isn't one big issue that any website that has data worth scraping
       | has ToS that disallow scraping? e.g. craigslist?
       | 
       | Would think this is a legal concern...
        
         | colecut wrote:
         | Can breaking terms of service result in anything more than
         | being banned from the site you are scraping?
        
         | sovnade wrote:
         | Also it's very easy to get blacklisted if you scrape too often
         | or too quickly. You definitely have to be "polite" about it.
        
         | fifilura wrote:
         | What about government/municipality data?
         | 
         | We paid for that once, surely it shouldn't be necessary to
         | charge for it again?
        
       | dradicchi wrote:
       | Please, see https://www.datallog.com/
       | 
       | They are a profitable startup and have a SDK solution for scale
       | web scraping bots on many business fields.
       | 
       | I'm a advisor/investor in Datallog. You can connect with the
       | founder in https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelder-maragno-arcaro/
        
       | rdbell wrote:
       | I co-founded https://packetstream.io
       | 
       | There are a handful of companies doing very well with models
       | similar to what you're describing. I can't mention specific
       | customers, but I see some of them doing very large scraping
       | volume through our network.
       | 
       | It's an industry where having a good product is more important
       | than the amount you're spending on marketing. If developers are
       | happy with your product they'll take it with them to future
       | companies/projects and share it with colleagues.
       | 
       | It can be a cat-and-mouse development cycle where the sites you
       | target break your functionality and you'll have customers that
       | will want fixes to be implement ASAP because they rely on your
       | tools to make money.
       | 
       | I don't know what you're building exactly, but keep in mind
       | there's a good chance that you'll need to commit to long-term,
       | continuous, rapid development cycles if you want to retain
       | customers.
       | 
       | Best of luck!
        
         | erichocean wrote:
         | My dude, how do you actually use your service (loading URLs)?
         | 
         | I just signed up, got sent to a dashboard...NO API
         | DOCUMENATATION, just a link to download an app (!) for people
         | who want to sell their residential bandwidth.
         | 
         | See ScraperAPI for a company that does API documentation well
         | in this space. (I've spent well over $100K with them.) Or
         | Stripe. PUT THE CODE UP FRONT.
         | 
         | There's also no API docs here, under "Support":
         | https://packetstream.io/support/faq
         | 
         | Update: I see it's hidden under "Network Access." This kind of
         | thing should be OBVIOUS, not the sixth option (looks like all
         | of the others) on some random SaaS dashboard.
        
       | suifbwish wrote:
       | I'm curious how you deal with JavaScript that will load other
       | pages including other JavaScript documents that cannot be loaded
       | until the first set of JavaScript is executed. I've played with
       | the chromium web driver a few times but it seems to be tricky to
       | implement in a completely headless environment.
        
         | max002 wrote:
         | Sometimes you need custom driver or taking control of real
         | browser (and i mean real browser, not via webdriver), headless
         | is easily detected.
        
       | webdoodle wrote:
       | I did so for years, scraping university press releases, obscure
       | government data (like the Federal Register), jail/prison rosters,
       | Reddit posts/comments/users etc. Companies like LexusNexus have
       | been doing it for far longer than the digital world, offering it
       | as a clipping service. If you can find a niche, it can be a
       | regular subscription income stream.
        
       | nomdep wrote:
       | Instead of competing head-on with ScrapingHub/etc, you could ask
       | yourself "why companies doing X pay them" and sell a specific
       | product for that niche.
        
       | arasx wrote:
       | If you can apply the scraping to a use case and sell that use
       | case you have a better chance at a viable business model.
       | Examples come to my mind is; builtwith (scrape sites and publish
       | the list of technologies they use), ahrefs (scrape sites and find
       | outgoing/incoming links) etc.
        
       | orev wrote:
       | If you're scraping someone else's data, do you know what they
       | copyright status is? Have you made deals with the original
       | sources that permits you to use their data? How will you deal
       | with lawsuits and the constant blocking of your scrapers?
        
         | max002 wrote:
         | Amd what if youre scraping data thats... already being scraped?
         | :D
        
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