[HN Gopher] 'Silicon Saxony' aims to be EU chipmaking hub
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'Silicon Saxony' aims to be EU chipmaking hub
Author : 1cvmask
Score : 49 points
Date : 2021-12-17 12:00 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
| 1cvmask wrote:
| https://archive.md/fjEgo
| citizenpaul wrote:
| I read that as "aims to be chipmunk hub" not gonna lie I was much
| more interested.
| textcortex wrote:
| With the amount of neo nazis in Saxony, they can totally become
| the racism hub in EU
| mellosouls wrote:
| Was Silicon Valley a deliberate government led initiative (beyond
| partnership and funding)? I'm sceptical of these "Silicon X" top-
| down projects which don't seem to have a great history (cf eg
| Silicon Roundabout);
|
| I would have thought that while government input and
| infrastructure help is useful, attempts at driving something at a
| high level in imitation of something else misses the point of
| low-level evolutionary growth, invention and originality.
| redis_mlc wrote:
| > Was Silicon Valley a deliberate government led initiative
| (beyond partnership and funding)?
|
| SV was the West Coast electronic warfare base for the US
| military after WW2, hence many early electronics pioneers
| started there. Stanford U. was the center.
|
| Some time after that, private investors became active, which
| was the start of civilian developments.
|
| I think startup parks could succeed, but not when headed by
| career bureaucrats. Something along the lines of how YC
| functions.
| rowanajmarshall wrote:
| > I'm sceptical of these "Silicon X" top-down projects which
| don't seem to have a great history (cf eg Silicon Roundabout);
|
| I don't know how much the government helped with this, but the
| UK has one of the largest software industries in the world,
| right after the US and China. It's hard to argue it hasn't
| worked, even if were unclear as to what "it" is
| johanneskanybal wrote:
| It's just a buzz word, calling something silicon valley doesn't
| make it so, there we agree :) At the same time the world sure
| is bigger than a city/university and there's tech hubs
| everywhere. Not having a hub for semi-conductors in Europe and
| Us seems foolish.
| bobthechef wrote:
| The way you compete with cheap Asian labor is protectionism. You
| will never build up that sort of industry with Chinese industry
| and cheap labor (and CCP shenanigans) as competition. America
| became an industrial power precisely because of protectionism.
| The US would never have stood a chance against England, France,
| and others (China is an interesting counterexample perhaps
| because they leveraged American greed to build up their
| industrial base, but that is not something everyone can
| replicate).
|
| You need a system of tariffs to prevent competition from abroad
| from killing the baby in the crib. This was certainly the
| argument made by Friedrich List. The only reason the US loves to
| promote open markets _elsewhere_ is to remove friction for
| American exports and cheap labor.
| 1cvmask wrote:
| Key excerpt regarding chip making in Germany:
|
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|
| The region has been burnt by politicians' fading interest before.
| While Taiwan was shoring up the semiconductor sector with nine-
| figure subsidies at the turn of the century, European support for
| the capital intensive industry remained modest.
|
| As recently as 2009, Dresden-based memory chipmaker Qimonda --
| one of the world's largest -- filed for bankruptcy after
| struggling to compete with Asian rivals despite appeals to the
| European Commission for support.
|
| "Qimonda wasn't saved, [carmaker] Opel was saved," said Frank
| Bosenberg, managing director of Silicon Saxony's representative
| body, which lobbies on behalf of 370 institutions. "Whose belts
| are standing still right now due to the lack of semiconductors?"
| he said, referring to Opel's production lines.
| simiones wrote:
| Wow, did FT actually insert additional text into your clipboard
| when you copy/pasted?
| kmlx wrote:
| yes, the ft does that. i guess it's against their t&c to just
| copy their articles and they want to make that clear. they do
| have share button that allows a number of clicks without
| needing a subscription.
| disabled wrote:
| Yeah, it always does this if you are an FT subscriber when
| copying/pasting their articles.
|
| This can be extremely annoying as a screenreader user. While
| FT is an extremely accessible newspaper, it can sometimes be
| more convenient to just copy/paste the article into a
| screenreader software.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| Right now covid in Saxony is so bad that they've closed _hotels_
| to non business travelers. It doesn't bode well for Saxony as a
| tech hub when their residents won't get vaccinated.
| cumshitpiss wrote:
| Why is this a big deal? It is same the policy elsewhere in
| central Europe.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| It's not the case in any other German state. They're doing
| the worst.
| cyberpunk wrote:
| _cough_ wurst*
| shasts wrote:
| Yes. AFD and right wing politics is not helping.
|
| Recently a friend moved from India to Dresden to work for a
| company in the "silicon" ecosystem. For some reason his name on
| the postal box where he and family lives temporarily, was tore
| off multiple times. Missed a few urgent letters.
|
| You know how it is in Germany, if you miss a letter from the
| Government office.
| emsy wrote:
| Hopefully the exposure to foreign professionals will lead to
| a decrease in xenophobia. So I think it's the other way
| around. It's not that there are fewer foreigners there
| because of right wing politics, but the right wing politics
| are flourishing because there are fewer foreigners (add to
| that the economic after-effects of the GDR that are still
| lingering more than 30 years later).
| the-dude wrote:
| Xenophobes are mad :
|
| 1) Because of foreigners with no work, they are thought of
| to 'cost money'
|
| 2) Because of foreigners with (good) work, because they are
| 'stealing' their jobs or have a better life
|
| You can't win.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > It's not that there are fewer foreigners there because of
| right wing politics
|
| Actually, you're wrong. Nazism in Eastern Germany has been
| pointed out to drastically reduce the attractivity for
| foreigners.
|
| Been that way ever since the 2015 anti-refugee riots and
| the rise of Pegida: https://www.br.de/nachricht/pegida-
| schadet-dresden-100.html
|
| The fact that people of color _regularly_ get beaten up in
| public transport over there only strengthens the problem.
| The Nazi terrorism is winning.
| emsy wrote:
| I'm sure you have some sources for your bold claims.
| Also, I think you may have gotten the point of my comment
| wrong. The comment I replied to made it sound like it's a
| bad idea to build in the saxony area because of racism,
| which is a wrong way to think about this, because this
| will only let the problem persist. Of course, this will
| only work if law enforcement will punish right wing
| violence.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| The police tend to BE right wing.
| thejackgoode wrote:
| Side question, as it puzzled me as a foreigner in Czech
| Republic, which apparently has the same rules.
|
| Why on Earth is it a requirement to have your name on the
| postal box (or the mailman won't put it in)? You are
| registered to the flat number, this information exists with
| all possible level of fidelity.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| "You are registered to the flat number"
|
| I don't think so. The Czech population registry works with
| addresses, but does not contain the exact apartment you
| live in. In case of blocks of flats, there might be ~ 100
| apartments with the same address.
|
| It is different if you are the owner. The land registry
| _does_ contain finer ownership data up to the level of the
| apartment.
|
| But as a renting person, while your contract will contain
| the apartment number, the authorities won't be registering
| that. You may actually go completely officially
| unregistered for years if you never visit the town hall and
| ask for a registration. It is not a hard requirement to get
| registered as a renter.
|
| But post will be delivered to you nonetheless if your post
| box is labeled with your name and someone knows your
| address.
| thejackgoode wrote:
| Thank you for clarifying. As a foreigner, I was never
| allowed to rent without registering, so it slipped my
| mind that indeed for citizens it may be the case.
| Nevertheless it's a security issue like OP mentioned,
| someone can change a letter or change their name to yours
| for a day on the sticker and get your mail.
| whythisnotthat wrote:
| because there are no flat numbers in Germany as far as i
| know, the house has a number as in randomstreet XY and then
| it goes by name on the bell and postal box. Your best
| strategy would be to derail your mail to a Postfach at the
| postal office and get your packages delivered to
| Packingstations of the delivery-service of your choice.
| mlinksva wrote:
| I don't know whether there are any real complementarities between
| chipmaking and operating systems r&d being geographically close
| (doubtful) but in case there are, I vaguely understand Dresden is
| a bit of a hub for the latter due to TU Dresden and Genode Labs.
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| Everytime I heard about a "Silicon Something" it was someone
| trying to sell me something. And the best move was to keep
| everything in the Bay.
|
| What's the plan to bring-in world class caliber talent and
| investors this time?
| qnsi wrote:
| re talent, there is plenty in EU and getting a visa to USA is
| not the easiest / not everyone wants to emigrate to USA
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I worked previously at the Lebiniz institute in Dresden. If you
| haven't been, it's one of the most beautiful cities in Europe
| (esp. at night).
|
| East Germany is still suffering from the economic damage of the
| cold war. The political challenge of funneling money from the
| west to the east is the same dynamic in the US that didn't
| support the losers of globalization.
|
| This had led to the rise of the far right et al.
|
| Fun trivia: Early in Putin's career, he was a spy in Dresden
| trying to learn about technology development.
| shrubble wrote:
| What exactly are the characteristics of the 'far right' in
| Germany?
|
| The reason I ask is that I have had European friends tell me
| that Bernie Sanders would be considered as a right-leaning
| centrist in their country. So clearly the frames of reference
| are different...
| ahartmetz wrote:
| They hate foreigners and some of them (especially in the
| east) like to beat them up. They are by no means something
| like anarcho-capitalists that are called far right because
| the mainstream is leftist.
| monopoledance wrote:
| No, we got the very deep end too.
|
| Straight anti-semitism, holocaust denial, NWO conspiracy
| theorists, neonazi hooligans, violence, militias, murder,
| right-wing terrorism (far bigger than left-wing activities,
| including the RAF). Saxony has places considered "no-go"
| areas for PoC.
|
| It's just your left isn't very leftist. Baseline solidarity
| and collectivism is different here (foundation for universal
| health dates back to 1845), and we didn't have the "red
| scare" oppression and persecution time you got - our
| "leftist" and leftist structures are older and established,
| not a moral panic. Btw. you also see that in our hacking
| scene, which is predominantly leftist/anarchist leaning
| (tough for state recruiting, as capable folks are generally
| not patriotic enough for that shitty pay). The biggest
| hacking conference in Europe, the CCC congress, is a little
| leftist, self-organized utopia, and very different from
| events like defcon. Some nazi web structures preemptively go
| offline around that time, as congress always gets a very
| good, unregulated uplink deal and spontaneous synchronization
| of efforts and enemies in extensive bring-your-own-servers
| networks. The event is strictly non-commercial - no sponsors,
| no ads, no company booths - and completely run by volunteers,
| for several decades now :)
| https://media.ccc.de/v/all_creatures_welcome
| cookieswumchorr wrote:
| Germans are bringing this up every time Saxony is mentioned in
| a conversation, it has become a commonplace joke,
| saxony==nazis. I believe it's unfair. Dresden is not only a
| beautiful city, it has great people. Far right exists, but
| they're still a minority even in the rural parts of Saxony. So
| it is a bad idea to associate the rest of society with them.
|
| I have been to the city multiple times on business trips, and
| witnessed the PEGIDA demos, and the counter-demos. The latter
| were bigger, and, obviously, more fun to witness as a
| foreigner.
|
| Another episode: I was walking to my stay through Dresden at
| night, i crossed on red. A yound girl in police uniform
| addressed me in English and asked me to please wait for green
| next time. It was late, the streets empty, she was half my
| size, unarmed and out of duty. She was probably not even a real
| officer, rather an Azubi. I'was big, bearded, tactical style
| clothing, obviously foreign. I was shocked.
| monopoledance wrote:
| > it has become a commonplace joke, saxony==nazis. I believe
| it's unfair.
|
| This is why: https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2021-09/
| ergebnisse-b...
|
| Blue is the party AfD, which is under surveillance by our
| (historically, rightwing extremism ignorant) inland
| intelligence agency,... for their extreme right, anti-
| constitutional and antisemitic views.
|
| Many places there are basically a "no-go area" for PoC. Not
| even Leipzig and Dresden are really safe. The police
| continuously makes headlines for right wind
| sympathies/connections. Btw. it's one of the least culturally
| diverse places in Germany.
|
| Oh it's also a hot spot for antivax folks and their numbers
| are insane.
|
| Saxony deserves every bit of disdain it can get.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Yes, these are symptoms. What do we do?
| cookieswumchorr wrote:
| look, i know the numbers, it's a big issue, I'm not saying
| it isn't. But blaming all Saxons an associating them with
| the far right is similar to blaming people of being
| criminals based on their ethnic background.
|
| it will result in a growth of the far right in Saxony,
| because people who are not far right will either move away,
| or end up in a far right bubble because everyone else is
| bashing them
|
| Saxony needs help and not disdain
| cyberpunk wrote:
| And west germans are still paying for it... :(
| hulitu wrote:
| No. This is pure propaganda. Some west germans made good
| money from east.
| nautilius wrote:
| Apparently 1.25e12 (!) Euro until 2008, and who knows how
| much since then.
|
| https://www.brandeins.de/magazine/brand-eins-
| wirtschaftsmaga...
| _glass wrote:
| And East Germans, you might not know this, but a lot of
| Western Germans are teasing Eastern Germans that they pay for
| this, when in general there is a tax for all citizens. In
| general this kind of support is needed, and with positive
| results, see Bavaria, which had no industry until recently.
| Or big factories that were relocated after WWII like Audi
| from Zwickau (Saxony) to Ingolstadt (Bavaria).
| nautilius wrote:
| I assume you would support a 'nautilius-tax' then. Everyone
| pays $10 a month to me, but because I also throw $10 in the
| bucket it's totally fair!
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| > This had led to the rise of the far right et al.
|
| If this were the case you'd see a correlation of poverty with
| rw attitudes in East Germany. There is no such correlation.
| foepys wrote:
| One thing I want to clarify about the rise of the far-right in
| East Germany is that _a lot_ of people with far-right views
| moved from the West to the East, too. It 's not just people
| from the East suffering economic hardship turning right, it's
| also an influx of "foreigners" (read: Western Germans) making
| it worse.
|
| Here are two short documentaries about two separate instances
| of this (German):
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1S2mmUn00
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YilcjXGXDbY
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