[HN Gopher] Tell HN: If you use Verizon, opt out of "Custom Expe...
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       Tell HN: If you use Verizon, opt out of "Custom Experience"
        
       I just got this text:  > VZ Msg: Introducing Verizon Custom
       Experience. VZ content & offers are more relevant using web
       browsing & app usage info. For info or to opt-out: m.vzw.com/CE
       And all I can say is: fuck that.
        
       Author : beervirus
       Score  : 170 points
       Date   : 2021-12-16 19:31 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
       | tentacleuno wrote:
       | Reminds me of O2. Their app actually requests access to your
       | _contacts_ (!) on Android, for no apparent reason (I see no
       | phonebook feature in the app). Very dodgy, and I ended up
       | isolating it in the Work profile.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I think most/all networks have something like this.
       | 
       | T-Mobile's can be turned off at:
       | https://www.t-mobile.com/account/profile/line-selector/adver...
       | 
       | But you have to turn each line off one-by-one, there's no master
       | switch.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | I consume mobile broadband only via a portable, battery
         | operated wifi VPN router that speaks only Wireguard back out
         | over the LTE.
         | 
         | I have a Google Fi (t-mobile network) SIM in one of these:
         | 
         | https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-e750/
         | 
         | Fuck carrier surveillance.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | > I have a Google Fi
           | 
           | > Fuck carrier surveillance.
           | 
           | How about Google surveillance? Google is one of those
           | companies that I find insidiously evil. They have excellent
           | PR and never get hammered on HN, but they own you, your soul
           | and know more about you than you do. Google is completely
           | inside you. Completely outside you.
           | 
           | Far more scarier than Verizon. Although, fuck Verizon too.
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | Google doesn't surveil app usage or network traffic via
             | their network services (eg. Fi and Fiber).
        
               | systemvoltage wrote:
               | It's a switch away. I'd rather not share the same ISP as
               | my family photos storage provider or health records
               | (Verily) vendor.
               | 
               | I am actively trying to do de-Google my life. It's
               | surprisingly difficult.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | You can't actually browse a functional web without
               | loading js from Google. Trying to de-Google your life
               | means giving up web browsing very nearly in full.
        
               | Speenah wrote:
               | Not true, google isn't the only CDN. And you can even
               | just have your own local one
               | 
               | https://decentraleyes.org/
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | How are you sure of that? Is there actually a way to be
               | sure of that?
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | T-Mobile does, and they run the physical network the Fi
               | traffic runs over, which makes this whole "Google
               | is/isn't as bad as T-Mobile on privacy" debate a red
               | herring.
        
             | modeless wrote:
             | > They have excellent PR and never get hammered on HN
             | 
             | You must be reading a different HN than I am.
        
               | systemvoltage wrote:
               | FB > Amazon > Twitter > Apple > Google > Tiktok. In that
               | order, in terms of the spanking I see on HN.
        
           | AareyBaba wrote:
           | Looks interesting. However, what gives you trust in this
           | 'Mudi by GL.iNet' device and app ? Genuine question since I
           | am in the market for a hotspot device and reviewing my
           | options.
        
           | mkskm wrote:
           | What's the advantage of this over running WireGuard directly
           | on your phone?
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | iPhones/iOS leak stuff past the VPN constantly. I am also
             | keeping my location changes private from Apple, and the
             | phone maintains a persistent connection to APNS at all
             | times, leaking the client IP, and will do so even if the
             | VPN on device goes down. There are also DNS leaks exposing
             | the device's client IP.
             | 
             | I also have root on the hotspot device and can block access
             | to specific IPs or hostnames, and can run tcpdump to
             | monitor traffic. It's pretty nice for seeing what spyware
             | various mobile apps have embedded in them.
             | 
             | You could also run the VPN on the phone itself, and just
             | use the firewall on the hotspot to prevent traffic to any
             | IP other than the VPN endpoint, closing the iOS VPN leaks,
             | but I connect 3-4 devices to the hotspot and want VPN on
             | all of them, so doing the VPN on the hotspot is slightly
             | more convenient.
        
             | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
             | One advantage is OpenWRT versus iOS/Android. User
             | utltimately has no control over the later, whereas user can
             | easily compile OpenWRT from source.
             | 
             | For example, OpenWRT allows more control over DNS settings.
             | There is no user access to /etc/hosts or /etc/resolv.conf
             | on iOS/Android. User can easily run servers on the e750,
             | e.g., DNS or proxies, and inspect the contents of traffic,
             | including TLS. The e750 has fewer limitations than trying
             | to run servers on Android, with something like Termux.
             | Using Termux, it is difficult if not impossible to even run
             | tcpdump. Moreover Termux is not available for iOS. The iOS
             | workarounds to run servers are elaborate. iOS is
             | intentionally locked down and Apple prevents users from
             | compiling iOS from source.
             | 
             | The e750 can accept CAT5/CAT6 Ethernet cables. Wired
             | internet is an option. "Smartphones" are wireless-only.
             | 
             | Corrections welcome.
        
       | Humdeee wrote:
       | So you opt out of letting them personalize and communicate to you
       | what they're going to track for themselves anyway. Pretty naive.
        
       | larrymcp wrote:
       | I see a lot of vitriol in this thread, but I can't seem to
       | understand what harm would actually be caused?
       | 
       | Would appreciate it if someone could give me an example or two.
       | As in, "A bad thing that can happen to you as a result of
       | Verizon's actions is: [insert actual bad thing that can happen
       | here]"
        
       | csnover wrote:
       | Previous discussion, with more background on this change:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29479114
        
       | Tijdreiziger wrote:
       | If you use T-Mobile Netherlands (or Tele2/Ben/Simpel), go to My
       | [T-Mobile|Tele2|Ben|Simpel] > More > Personal Data > Privacy
       | Settings and switch the appropriate options to 'No'.
        
       | uxamanda wrote:
       | Not sure how many times I have opt-ed out of Verizon's cool new
       | surveillance feature, this appears to be a new one. I will say
       | the typo in the copy that says they might, for example, mark me
       | as a "spots lover" is pretty nice [0]. Bring on the leopard spam!
       | 
       | [0] 'The program uses information about websites you visit and
       | apps you use on your mobile device, your Verizon Fios services,
       | device location and Customer Proprietary Network Informationn
       | (CPNI), including phone numbers you call and those that call you,
       | to help us understand your interests, like "spots lover" or
       | "gamer."'
        
         | PeterisP wrote:
         | That's why "opt out" is not an ethical or practical solution.
         | There needs to be a (legally mandated and enforced) requirement
         | for such things to be opt-in.
        
           | retox wrote:
           | Any opt-out agreement puts the user signing the contract at a
           | disadvantage; the opt-out could be 'lost' and then the upper-
           | hand in the agreement prefers the service providing the
           | contract, the same party which has the most to gain from the
           | 'loss'. Whereas an opt-in agreement defaults to the upper-
           | hand in favor of the user if the contract is lost, forcing
           | the owning party to keep careful track of the signature.
           | 
           | Of course this doesn't preclude forged signatures/agreements.
        
           | routerl wrote:
           | Agree with you completely, but companies/governments do not.
           | See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_paternalism
        
       | diamondap wrote:
       | Thanks for mentioning this. Since I turned on Verizon's spam
       | blocking feature, all texts from Verizon are marked as junk. (And
       | I didn't even configure that, Verizon just blocked itself out of
       | the box.) Anyway, I found the message in spam, but it's
       | impossible to opt out right now because the site is having
       | problems.
        
       | isitdopamine wrote:
       | Words can't describe how much I despise PR jargon!
       | 
       | "more relevant offers" now universally means "we'll spy on you,
       | so we can get more money from you!"
        
       | olyjohn wrote:
       | Why does this keep coming up? You opt-out, then they opt you back
       | in to something "new" 3 months later. Just keep doing it until
       | everybody is opted in. This is bullshit.
        
       | masterof0 wrote:
       | I get a 404. So they probably disabled the site.
        
         | imilk wrote:
         | 404 for me as well.
        
         | somehnguy wrote:
         | Just worked for me.
        
       | more_corn wrote:
       | If you use Verizon they have reverted/ignored your privacy
       | settings. You should switch carriers immediately. You should also
       | report them to your state's attorney general. This is illegal (at
       | least it is in my state)
       | 
       | This kind of behavior cannot be permitted. Perhaps a fine (I
       | propose $50M) would help remind them of their obligations to
       | their customers' privacy preferences.
        
         | ohazi wrote:
         | > You should switch carriers immediately.
         | 
         | They _all_ do this.
        
           | jaflo wrote:
           | Google Fi seems decent. But course it is Google itself, not
           | sure what shenanigans the pull.
        
             | colordrops wrote:
             | Google? Hahaha, they have orders of magnitude more data on
             | you than carriers and are absolutely aggregating google Fi
             | data into your profile.
        
       | adultSwim wrote:
       | Is this only for Verizon Wireless or does it apply to their fiber
       | service as well?
        
         | somehnguy wrote:
         | It's not exactly the same, but FIOS does use data for
         | advertising preferences. Turn it off on the manage my internet
         | page under 'manage online advertising preferences'.
        
       | blintz wrote:
       | This is so slimy and infuriating, and it increasingly seems like
       | they will continue to 'reset' everyone's opt-out until enough
       | people get tired/miss the update.
       | 
       | Is there a tech solution? How can we minimize the amount of data
       | that they can even collect? For example, I wonder if just
       | changing DNS (and ideally doing DNS-over-HTTPS) would eliminate
       | most of it. As far as call metadata, I'd say the answer is
       | probably just using some less slimy provider (Signal etc).
        
       | petarb wrote:
       | Anyone know if AT&T has a program like this? I'd be curious to
       | know so I can opt out as well
        
       | paul7986 wrote:
       | Is that even real ... if you don't know already it's best to
       | avoid/ignore and even block dumb stuff(texts) like that... most
       | of it from scammers who want you to click a link to their site
       | and do whatever bad thing their goal is.
        
         | petee wrote:
         | I got an email stating the same, and appears legit, mailed and
         | signed by customer.verizon.com
        
         | nrclark wrote:
         | Vzw.com is an actual domain owned by Verizon, yes. On a
         | desktop, it redirects to the Verizon login portal.
        
           | paul7986 wrote:
           | That's cool but my brain is trained to ignore all links from
           | texts as I get tons from AT&T that clearly not legit.
           | 
           | The cost of spammers as they have forever changed how we use
           | the telephone in terms of bother answering unknown calls.
           | They are doing or have done the same with text.
           | 
           | Also why should I as a consumer have to do a domain search to
           | verify legit or not. I personally just ignore all and tell
           | everyone in my family and friends to do the same.
        
             | beervirus wrote:
             | That's cool but I hope you like automatically being opted
             | in to have your data slurped up since you won't click on
             | links or investigate whether they're real.
        
               | paul7986 wrote:
               | If your online(email, social media, websites, etc) then
               | your data is almost everywhere. Rather they take my data
               | secretly then break into things that matter the most
               | online and off.
        
       | dorianmariefr wrote:
       | VPN + DNS over HTTPS might solve part of this, then using VoIP
       | for calls/texts
        
       | brutal_chaos_ wrote:
       | I'm on a Verizon phone currently and that link gives me a 404.
       | Perhaps the service hasn't rolled out to everyone yet?
        
       | fashiontechguru wrote:
       | Thank you!
        
       | pinewurst wrote:
       | There's actually two to opt out of - "Custom Experience" and the
       | even more invasive "Custom Experience Plus"
        
         | beervirus wrote:
         | I mean of _course_ there are.
        
         | throwhauser wrote:
         | Don't stop there. I see no fewer than five (5) sections in my
         | Verizon privacy settings that were set to share information I
         | never would have agreed to if I knew they existed.
         | 
         | - Custom Proprietary Network Information
         | 
         | - Business & Marketing Insights
         | 
         | - Identity Verification Settings
         | 
         | - Custom Experience
         | 
         | - Custom Experience Plus
        
       | asadlionpk wrote:
       | Maybe a brain fart but can they even monitor more than just
       | domain names?
        
         | eddyg wrote:
         | _From their web page:_
         | 
         | You will be part of the Custom Experience program unless you
         | opt out. You must opt in to the Custom Experience Plus program
         | to be a part of it unless you are already participating in
         | Verizon Selects. Verizon Selects participants will
         | automatically be included.
         | 
         | Custom Experience uses information about the websites you visit
         | and the apps you use on your mobile device to help us determine
         | your interests, such as "sports lover" or "outdoor enthusiast."
         | We make efforts to eliminate the use of websites that may be
         | sensitive in nature.
         | 
         | Custom Experience Plus also uses:
         | 
         | * Device location information we obtain from the Verizon
         | network and from Verizon apps you have permitted to collect
         | location for these purposes;
         | 
         | * Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI), including
         | information about the phone numbers you call or that call you
         | and the times you receive these calls. It also includes
         | information about the quantity, type, destination, location,
         | and amount of use of your Verizon telecommunications and
         | interconnected voice over internet protocol (VoIP) services and
         | related billing information.
         | 
         |  _and this gem:_
         | 
         | Q. If I turn off the location settings on my mobile device,
         | will my location information still be used for Custom
         | Experience Plus?
         | 
         | A. We use location information from our network. We will
         | continue to use this type of location information regardless of
         | your device location services setting.
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | > and the apps you use on your mobile device
           | 
           | how are they getting that info?
        
             | rovr138 wrote:
             | domains they might use
        
           | christkv wrote:
           | What do they mean with this
           | 
           | We make efforts to eliminate the use of websites that may be
           | sensitive in nature.
        
             | rovr138 wrote:
             | All we can do is assume.
             | 
             | I'd say banking, investments, porn, etc are good candidates
             | to remove
        
               | bink wrote:
               | No way, that's good blackmail data. Imagine the power you
               | could exert over people like Supreme Court Justices if
               | you can buy their porn browsing history.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | That's pretty much it. Obviously any unencrypted sites can be
         | sniffed, but those aren't that common anymore.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Is Verizon still using supercookies?
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-16 23:00 UTC)