[HN Gopher] Expired web domains help criminal hackers unlock ent...
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       Expired web domains help criminal hackers unlock enterprise
       defenses
        
       Author : bhartzer
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2021-12-16 18:04 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (portswigger.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (portswigger.net)
        
       | onphonenow wrote:
       | A while ago a major country health system (think millions of
       | folks) REQUIRED that every provider install this horrendous java
       | system which only worked with IE, and only an OLD version of
       | Java. This "electronic health record" system was beyond
       | frustrating to use. Getting an account setup took weeks. You had
       | a VPN to connect with (SSL) which had to be (slowly) provisioned
       | for the user, then had to get user credentials. Think passwords
       | that expire every 30 days with insane complexity.
       | 
       | BUT! - The app default loaded an expired .org domain in internet
       | explorer (I think it was intended for announcements).
       | 
       | So two things were true:
       | 
       | Because of system requirements the computers were running OLD
       | windows and OLD java (we all hated the java upgrade nag). So huge
       | security holes that had to be left unpatched! We had to have
       | special machines for this craptastic stuff.
       | 
       | AND they default loaded a website that anyone could have
       | registered!
       | 
       | After a frustrating day dealing with this expensive stupidity, I
       | was tempted to register the domain with a message that said -
       | this system is a waste of money. :)
        
         | fencepost wrote:
         | Much safer to contact a white hat you know in another country,
         | or someone like Brian Krebs.
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | One of the details of iSCSI is that the iSCSI Qualified Name
       | (IQN) has date stamp. So if you own the domain _example.com_ , in
       | your connection string you would have:
       | 
       | * "iqn"
       | 
       | * date (yyyy-mm) that the naming authority took ownership of the
       | domain
       | 
       | * reversed domain name of the authority, e.g., "com.example"
       | 
       | See:
       | 
       | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI#Addressing
       | 
       | * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3720#section-3.2.6....
       | 
       | This way if the 'naming authority' (example.com) changes hands,
       | the old connection handle is invalidated.
        
       | morpheuskafka wrote:
       | One time I created a virtual machine on some cloud platform and
       | after checking the traffic logs, found out that Coke had some
       | random disused subdomain pointing to my new IP that was still
       | getting traffic daily.
       | 
       | Does anyone here have an idea of how common this kind of mistake
       | is? Would it be a viable strategy for an attacker to just iterate
       | through VMs on a common service like AWS until one happens to get
       | traffic on an interesting domain?
        
         | rhtgrg wrote:
         | I recall seeing something similar happening with subdomains and
         | S3 [0] not too long ago, albeit that issue didn't involve DNS.
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28351432
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | kingcharles wrote:
       | Also, don't let your mobile phone number expire and someone else
       | get it.
       | 
       | I can log in to the previous owner's TikTok account with just his
       | number.
       | 
       | I signed up for a food delivery service two days ago and it
       | autofilled all the details with his full name and address for me.
       | 
       | How many other sites let you log in with just a phone number?
       | Asking for a friend...
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | > How many other sites let you log in with just a phone number?
         | Asking for a friend...
         | 
         | We considered it when I worked for an e-commerce site years
         | ago. We opted not to because of the privacy issues.
         | 
         | Well not logging in, but auto-filling the address.
        
       | jhoelzel wrote:
       | see this is why I own like 30 domains and do not get rid of them
       | ;)
       | 
       | The excuse that, somewhere there is a hacker group, who has a
       | list of all social media accounts from various leaks aggregated,
       | realises that my domain expires and executes automatic hacking
       | attempts against my accounts, is now my new favourite bedtime
       | story to scare kids ;)
       | 
       | But really what would the alternative be? Sell them only to
       | people "I trust"? That can't be healthy.
       | 
       | I guess the only right thing to do here is to extend your domain,
       | host a page which clearly states "this page will be unavailable
       | in the future" and when google traffic has dropped to 0, lets say
       | a year later you can set it free?
       | 
       | as for account claiming with expired domains: there are so many
       | reason why that account should have a new email by then or be
       | closed entirely.
        
         | dgeiser13 wrote:
         | "In the future no one will need more than 30 domain names." ~
         | Bill Gates, 1993
        
           | 1-6 wrote:
           | In the future, you'll have a generation of computer
           | illiterate adults who rely on the computer literate to
           | survive.
        
       | kingcharles wrote:
       | An interesting one. Before I went (unexpectedly) to jail, I ran a
       | successful mortgage web site.
       | 
       | While I was in jail the domain lapsed. I browsed to the domain
       | the other day to see who bought it (I'd been offered $80K for it
       | just before I got locked up) and was shocked to find the site
       | exactly as I'd left it.
       | 
       | Whoever bought the domain also fished the whole site out of
       | archive.org and carefully reconstructed it, leaving only one
       | small error in the HTML.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | That's a really interesting story. Can you elaborate more? Have
         | you tried to reach out to the owner?
        
       | Puts wrote:
       | Companies should really stop collecting domains as Pokemon-cards.
       | Not only are abandoned domains risking to be hijacked, either by
       | the fact that the whole domain expires or that you have records
       | pointing at servers no longer in your control. But also you are
       | teaching your customers to click on phishing-links, because
       | apparently the e-mails you send out to customers contain a new
       | domain every time.
       | 
       | Also, a general tip is to treat all domains and subdomains as
       | information assets within your ISMS. Meaning they should have an
       | explicitly assigned responsible owner within the organization.
        
         | ryan29 wrote:
         | > But also you are teaching your customers to click on
         | phishing-links, because apparently the e-mails you send out to
         | customers contain a new domain every time.
         | 
         | I've noticed government departments have become bad for this in
         | Canada. It's crazy. Who runs these sites?
         | https://www.ehealthontario.ca
         | https://ehealthontario.on.ca
         | 
         | A long time ago everything used to be split provincially and
         | you could register private domains under the `.on.ca` namespace
         | [1], so there's not a _guarantee_ a `.on.ca` site is a
         | government website AFAIK.
         | 
         | I don't understand the aversion to subdomains. Assuming the
         | government owns `canada.ca`, I'd rather see things like:
         | ehealth.on.canada.ca         ehealth.bc.canada.ca
         | 
         | That makes it easier to determine if a website is government
         | run or not by looking at the URL.
         | 
         | Also, all the government websites use super expensive OV TLS
         | certificates. I don't get that either.
         | 
         | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ca#Third-
         | level_(provincial)_a...
        
           | jcrawfordor wrote:
           | This was a very popular concept in the early days of public
           | DNS, and standardized to a degree in RFC 1480. E.g. in the US
           | there were extensive "designated structures" under the .us
           | ccTLD. For example, Portland's Franklin High School had been
           | franklin.pps.k12.or.us, but now it's pps.net/franklin. Less
           | common were the designated structure for state governments
           | and agencies---it has always been newmexico.gov, not
           | state.nm.us as Postel had once dictated, but more annoyingly
           | santafecountynm.gov rather than co.santafe.nm.us (it is
           | unclear, bureaucratically, how exactly this would interact
           | with ci.santafe.nm.us which is also designated).
           | 
           | Ultimately everyone hated those k12.<state>.us domains
           | though. I've heard many people describe them as annoying,
           | ugly, old fashioned, etc. The simple reality is that the
           | _massive_ dominance of the .com gTLD basically established
           | second-level domains as a prestige point if not a basic
           | requirement for a modern website. This is the same effect
           | that lead to a police department using the wonderfully  '90s
           | domain name "apdonline.com". You know a website's good when
           | it tells you it's on the internet, in the name.
           | 
           | The situation would perhaps be different if the federal
           | government had ever made any serious moves towards using the
           | proposed .fed.us instead of .gov. And perhaps also if "bare"
           | second-level names had been less problematic and not lead to
           | universal use of www, which lead many consumers to view "www"
           | as some sort of universal prefix like http:// and not as an
           | actual particle of the name which could adopt other values. A
           | common practical problem with subdomains today is a tendency
           | of users to stick www. on the beginning, even if it's a third
           | or lower level name, which people with a deeper understanding
           | of the system usually don't expect or account for. Both of
           | these factors sort of discouraged any real understanding of
           | DNS as hierarchical.
           | 
           | But as is, consumers seem to strongly associate third-level
           | and lower domain names as being some combination of sketchy
           | and inconvenient.
           | 
           | Probably part of it too is that as much as John Postel loved
           | the two-letter abbreviations, I don't think anyone else
           | really did... "ci" instead of "city" does not really seem
           | like that worthwhile of an economy.
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-16 23:01 UTC)