[HN Gopher] Launch HN: Preflight (YC W19) - Better automated tes...
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       Launch HN: Preflight (YC W19) - Better automated testing for web
       apps
        
       Author : mesadb
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2021-12-14 13:35 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (preflight.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (preflight.com)
        
       | infocollector wrote:
       | Can you please add a pricing page to your website? Also, can one
       | run these tests with an api key on ci/cd?
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Hi, the pricing is tricky part in any startup. We have some
         | smaller plans and bigger plans. It really depends on what your
         | needs are.
         | 
         | Absolutely, integrating with CI/CD is super easy. We have some
         | integrations already with major CI/CD pipelines. You can find
         | it right here after signing up:
         | https://app.preflight.com/account/integrations
        
           | kierenj wrote:
           | What are the prices for the various plans? :)
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | mesadb wrote:
             | It's here now: https://preflight.com/pricing - thanks
             | everybody for the clear feedback.
        
           | dubcanada wrote:
           | This is the wrong mindset, it does not depend on what my
           | needs are. It depends on what you can offer me. My needs are
           | meaningless, maybe I need it to also monitor uptime. Are you
           | going to build that un-needed featured because I need it.
           | 
           | It should be about what you can offer, and I can determine if
           | that fits my needs.
        
       | neeleshs wrote:
       | Can it work with canvas based drag/drop apps? Would be very
       | interested, if it can
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Hi @neeleshs, we are actually about to launch that. We will use
         | Computer Vision to find the elements and drag and drop. Would
         | love to help you with that or drop you an email when we launch
         | it. It should be live next week or so
        
           | neeleshs wrote:
           | Thank you! Will sign up
        
       | claytongulick wrote:
       | I actually need this too right now, but without a pricing page I
       | just move along.
       | 
       | I'm bombarded by vendors every day trying to "recapture" a sale,
       | as part of an automated sales pipeline process.
       | 
       | I rarely provide contact details prior to being able to:
       | 
       | 1) understand the product, what it does, and whether it will work
       | for me
       | 
       | 2) understand the pricing and sla
       | 
       | 3) understand the business continuity model
       | 
       | I'd rather have a more difficult solution (selenium) that I know
       | the above three points about than to get sucked into yet another
       | sales pipeline.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | It's here now: https://preflight.com/pricing
        
       | endisneigh wrote:
       | I don't understand the OPs attitude around publishing basic
       | information without signing up.
       | 
       | Here's the pricing for those who are curious:
       | 
       | Starter - 300 tests/month $99 /mo
       | 
       | Startup - 1,000 tests/month $300 /mo
       | 
       | Competitors are cheaper and include more tests.
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Yeap it's right here: https://preflight.com/pricing (Edit: just
         | added.)
         | 
         | Which competitors? Where are they running the tests on? Do they
         | adapt to changes and save your valuable time? Or charge small
         | and run tests with selectors like: .wudfj289hf .a9dfh82hf
         | .sadf98h which breaks each time you deploy?
        
           | endisneigh wrote:
           | > Yeap it's right here: https://preflight.com/pricing
           | 
           | pretty misleading for you to act like that page was already
           | there. you just added it. your lack of transparency is pretty
           | disturbing.
           | 
           | EDIT: wow OP got flagged and deleted their original reply,
           | lol.
           | 
           | cheaper options (just YC, not counting non-YC)
           | 
           | https://www.superadmin.so/
           | 
           | https://reflect.run/
           | 
           | https://www.rainforestqa.com/
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | mesadb wrote:
             | Sorry - you're right of course - I was just scrambling to
             | reply to everyone and didn't mean to leave a misleading
             | impression. I've edited my comment to be clearer now.
        
       | easton wrote:
       | Why Windows/macOS and not Linux for the test runners?
       | Chrome/Firefox runs just fine on Linux, and then you don't have
       | to pay for licenses. (I suppose if you get one of those resale
       | agreements with MS you wouldn't have to either as long as you
       | bill the customer, but as the customer I don't care about what OS
       | the browser is running on.)
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Thank for your comment. I see your point. Linux is fine for
         | functional testing. But we just want to test how your users use
         | your app. Our end goal is to use keyboard and mouse on OS
         | level. And adapt to the changes. Some of the functionality and
         | fonts don't work on linux so it's a little tricky.
        
         | depressedpanda wrote:
         | That's unfortunate.
         | 
         | Even on GitHub -- owned by Microsoft -- Windows runners are
         | twice the cost of Linux runners (macOS is 10x). Given that, the
         | extra unnecessary cost is almost certainly pushed onto the
         | customer.
        
           | mesadb wrote:
           | Yeah I didn't like that news as well. But most of the users
           | are on MacOs and Windows. So we really want to test how your
           | users use your app. We have plans on adding linux but it will
           | take longer.
        
       | beingflo wrote:
       | I'm actually in the market for a product like this right now. But
       | I genuinely don't understand why you wouldn't publish your
       | pricing, that's an immediate no-go for me.
       | 
       | Just a couple of days ago I started trying checkly [1] and have
       | been quite happy, although I didn't try their browser testing
       | yet. What do you offer over other services like this?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.checklyhq.com/
        
         | tnolet wrote:
         | Checkly CTO and founder here. Thanks for trying Checkly. Just
         | looking at Preflight, I think the audience might be different.
         | Where we -- Checkly -- focus heavily on "code first / developer
         | first", Preflight seems to target no/low code.
         | 
         | For us, code-first / dev-first means we directly integrate with
         | popular JS frameworks (like Playwright and Puppeteer), allow
         | you to code any setup / teardown scripts in NodeJs and
         | generally want you to treat your testing and monitoring setup
         | "as code".
         | 
         | So, TLDR is that I would 100% give Preflight a try and see if
         | it matches your workflow. Always choose the best tool for your
         | problem!
         | 
         | P.S. we do help with generating test scripts with our Chrome
         | extension https://github.com/checkly/headless-recorder
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | If you sign up, and you should see the prices
        
           | dubcanada wrote:
           | Agreed, anything without a pricing page is an immediate no
           | for me. Looked for pricing, did not see it. Closed page.
           | 
           | I don't care at all about anything else, as soon as the
           | pricing page is hidden means it's not affordable to me.
        
             | mesadb wrote:
             | I listened to all of you and put a page on the website:
             | https://preflight.com/pricing
        
           | runako wrote:
           | Coming here to second this. I am not signing up to find out
           | how much it costs, and I am actively in the market for a tool
           | like this.
           | 
           | Why won't I sign up to find pricing? Because gaming pricing
           | makes a bad impression and makes me think you will try to
           | obfuscate other critical information once I become a customer
           | and generally be a difficult vendor to work with. Nobody
           | needs to add a difficult vendor, especially in a competitive
           | category.
           | 
           | Edit: there are 6 top-level comments on this post besides
           | yours. 4 of the 6 are looking for pricing.
        
             | mesadb wrote:
             | I respect that. But If you don't have a serious pain point
             | around testing and you want to miss the best option out
             | there. It's fine by me. There are couple of other
             | alternatives out there: reflect.run, rainforestqa.com,
             | ghostinspector.com, mabl.com, testim.io.
             | 
             | We don't obfuscate, we care deeply about our clients. I
             | always say this. If Preflight doesn't add value you don't
             | have to pay for it nor use it.
        
               | simlevesque wrote:
               | > you want to miss the best option out there
               | 
               | Part of my first impression of your product is the fact
               | that you have something to hide. I want to trust the
               | products I use.
               | 
               | Also, my time is precious. I can't count the number of
               | times I wasted time by looking at a product to find out
               | the pricing makes no sens at all.
        
               | mesadb wrote:
               | I expressed that I heard you so I put the pricing up in
               | about an hour ago: https://preflight.com/pricing
        
               | runako wrote:
               | I shouldn't have had to say this, given that this is HN
               | and comments tend toward the helpful, but: I meant my
               | comment in the sense of helping you to improve your
               | offering.
               | 
               | If I didn't care, I wouldn't have taken the time to write
               | a comment as if I had a stake in your company beyond just
               | wanting entrepreneurs to succeed. If I had seen this on
               | Twitter, I would have just kept scrolling. But HN has
               | given a lot to me, so I try to help others.
               | 
               | So in that vein, one more constructive criticism: learn
               | to take feedback better. The best customer feedback often
               | comes packaged in vitriol and is much more unpleasant
               | than anything posted here. (Especially from support
               | tickets. People are frequently angry when they write
               | them, but they also provide invaluable insight into your
               | product.) You'll have more success if you gracefully
               | accept all critiques, both warranted and unwarranted,
               | regardless of how gently they are phrased.
               | 
               | Good luck!
        
               | beingflo wrote:
               | I hope you take the critical comments here
               | constructively, we just think that you're missing out on
               | a lot of potential users by not being transparent with
               | pricing. As the other comment points out, we've come to
               | expect that no pricing page means sales contact etc.,
               | individual customers are typically not interested in
               | that.
        
               | mesadb wrote:
               | Yes you are completely right. I didn't know everyone
               | would expect the pricing on the website. I quickly
               | created a page and released it right here:
               | https://preflight.com/pricing
        
       | au-arms wrote:
       | Love the activity in this space. We are on the lookout for a tool
       | like this with built in runtime performance monitoring (frame
       | jank, composited layer size, long tasks, component render times,
       | etc). Would happily pay for a service that could do so.
        
       | mesadb wrote:
       | Hi HN! It's Mustafa. I'm the founder of Preflight
       | (https://preflight.com). Preflight is a no-code tool that
       | automates manual web app testing. It lets everyone test the
       | product by simply recording actions in the browser with a Chrome
       | extension. Here's a demo video:
       | https://www.loom.com/share/4b09462bf52942e28b0dc71c9c0c319a.
       | 
       | I was the first engineer at ShipBob and ended up hiring over 40
       | engineers. We had a lot of UI issues after we grew beyond a team
       | of 5 or so. With all the engineers adding new code to the
       | existing code, everything started to break.
       | 
       | That's when we started writing Selenium tests. I and several
       | other engineers wrote 100 Selenium test cases in 2 months. But we
       | were not able to maintain them in 3- 4 weeks because we had other
       | responsibilities, and our Selenium test cases soon went to trash.
       | 
       | The problem with automated UI tests with Selenium or Cypress is
       | that they depend on the internals of the design (e.g. via CSS and
       | XPath selectors), resulting in tests that break frequently
       | because of unrelated changes. When that happens, you either have
       | to fix all the tests and run them again, or replace the broken
       | automated tests with manual testing.
       | 
       | Then I hired 2 QA engineers, they took 5 months to come up with
       | 5% test coverage and we needed more testing so we couldn't add
       | more to it and maintain those tests as well. These issues pushed
       | me towards creating a tool for automated testing that could
       | understand the context of the page--the way humans do, not the
       | way browser engines do--and can adapt to changes based on each
       | steps' context. So if the UI changes completely and the test is
       | looking for a Password Input in a sign-up form or an Orders menu
       | item in the menu, we will find it without any related selectors.
       | 
       | As humans, we understand the page in terms of buttons, menus,
       | headings, borders, and so on. I wanted to mimic that. On top of
       | that we have implemented a way to understand navigations through
       | these different elements with their context, again, as humans do.
       | We call this Context-Awareness. It's our secret sauce to adapt to
       | the changes and also calculate what your test coverage is. Since
       | we understand the context of each step, it's pretty easy to see
       | if, say, a given button is in the tests.
       | 
       | Here's a video that shows the Context Awareness aspect I just
       | mentioned:
       | https://www.loom.com/share/50426244253943e49906dd881e0fb7d7.
       | 
       | You record your tests using our browser extension, and then we
       | run them on a bunch of Windows 10 machines that access your web
       | app over the internet and execute the tests you recorded. We're
       | working on adding Macs. (Fun fact: Selenium cannot handle more
       | than 40 nodes. The first version of Preflight was depending on
       | Selenium Grid and it stopped working when we wanted to add more
       | than 40 machines to it.)
       | 
       | We charge money based on how many tests you are planning to run.
       | We don't want to limit you based on server time because it's not
       | easy to predict how much server time your tests will take. So
       | everything is based on test results.
       | 
       | Anyone can sign up and start using Preflight in minutes after
       | signing up at https://app.preflight.com/get-started.
       | 
       | Thank you for reading. I'd love to hear your thoughts and help
       | all of you with any of your QA needs!
        
       | danr4 wrote:
       | Pricing: https://i.imgur.com/Hhv747C.png
       | 
       | $99/mo 300 tests / month
       | 
       | $300/mo 1000 tests / month
       | 
       | Aside from hiding prices, the sign up process has another
       | annoying dark pattern - you sign up, they prompt you to schedule
       | onboarding call (only option, no other button), then if you click
       | anywhere or wait a few seconds a "Continue to Dashboard" button
       | appears. If you click it you have an "Are you sure?" button
       | instead.
       | 
       | Instant turn off.
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Thank you for making my life easier. It's here now:
         | https://preflight.com/pricing
         | 
         | We want to make sure we help you. Testing is not easy even
         | though we try everything we can to make it easy.
        
       | wesleyfsmith wrote:
       | Seems really promising, but how does it work with browser
       | extensions? For instance, I'm looking for something like this
       | that will help me test my crypto app that uses metamask at
       | various points through the app.
       | 
       | Also, no public pricing page is a bit of a turn off, especially
       | when I created an account and still couldn't find any pricing
       | info.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Hi Wesley, you should be able to see the price on here now:
         | https://app.preflight.com/account/billing. Sorry if we made a
         | mistake
         | 
         | It should be no problem with MetaMask.
         | 
         | Edit: Also listened to everyone and put the pricing on the web
         | page: https://preflight.com/pricing
        
           | kanwisher wrote:
           | How can you interact with another browser plugin from a
           | plugin, that doesn't seem to make sense
        
             | mesadb wrote:
             | I'm sorry I am a little confused. We use Chrome extension
             | to record your Browser tests. (Not browser plugin tests)
        
       | notadev wrote:
       | Selenium IDE allows recording/playback of actions via browser
       | extensions as well, without having to figure out the XPath, etc.,
       | yourself. Preflight looks much nicer than Selenium IDE interface,
       | but is it much more different in its function?
       | 
       | Can you run Preflight on-prem or must the AUT be accessible to
       | the Internet?
       | 
       | Regarding the Context Awareness, is there any issue with working
       | with React apps? If I renamed an item in the navbar, or changed
       | the position of an element (thus changing the XPath), would CA be
       | able to identify and workaround that?
       | 
       | Questions aside, it's a great idea and the app looks great.
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Yes, it's almost similar to Selenium IDE. We capture more data
         | like target screenshot and context of the element etc. We get
         | rid of automatically generated IDs or classes.
         | 
         | We can access to environments behind the VPNs. But it's hassle-
         | free if it's accessible through the internet.
         | 
         | Actually we also implemented Context awareness for SPAs with
         | CSS Module to adapt to the changes. We are agnostic to HTML
         | changes and if we can find the element we will update the
         | selectors after the test is successful.
         | 
         | Thank you very much for the kind words!
        
       | sandman83 wrote:
       | Any plans on integrating with Github / Github Actions at any
       | point?
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | Hi, we have a webhook that can be triggered from Github PR's
         | etc. If that's something you need would love to help if it's
         | not clear.
        
       | econnors wrote:
       | how's this compare to datadog synthetics?
       | https://docs.datadoghq.com/synthetics/
        
         | mesadb wrote:
         | They work with selectors in general. We understand the page
         | structure and even though there is a UI change we adapt to it.
         | They have a little bit more functionality at the moment but we
         | should catch them soon.
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-14 23:02 UTC)