[HN Gopher] Sublime Clojure
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Sublime Clojure
        
       Author : rcarmo
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2021-12-14 08:07 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tonsky.me)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tonsky.me)
        
       | recov wrote:
       | Really cool plugin, although a bit sad to see how long it's
       | taking to get approved - It makes sense to want to do a thorough
       | review, although taking a month+ not something I like seeing in
       | my favorite editor :(
        
       | oxalorg wrote:
       | These were some refreshing ideas to solve UX problems in the
       | clojure REPL driven development flow (especially the REPL panel
       | which I always keep hidden).
       | 
       | I've been frustrated a bit with the general UX of using emacs,
       | clojure, and REPL since a while now. I keep tweaking my emacs
       | config to improve it one bit at a time, hopefully one day I'll be
       | happy :)
        
         | tut-urut-utut wrote:
         | Which part of the Emacs Clojure workflow you find annoying, and
         | what is your proposed fix?
         | 
         | Asking because I still flow somewhere between Emacs/Cider and
         | IntelliJ/Cursive.
        
       | nightwolf wrote:
       | Happy to see both my favorite editor and my favorite programming
       | language hit the front page of Hacker News! FWIW, I responded to
       | some of the points regarding Tutkain over at reddit[1].
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/rflhxf/comment/hoi...
        
       | claytn wrote:
       | Unrelated to the plugin: I love the dark mode on your site.
        
       | nikivi wrote:
       | The inline errors are life changing. If you use VSCode, ErrorLens
       | package achieves same thing:
       | https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=username...
        
       | panick21_ wrote:
       | This is real neat. However, I tend to use Cursive and REBL. I
       | think that's some of the coolest development environment I ever
       | used.
       | 
       | People who have not heard of the REBL, can check out this video:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c52QhiXsmyI
       | 
       | > REBL is a graphical, interactive tool for browsing Clojure
       | data.
        
       | jmchuster wrote:
       | > It's been two weeks since I started using Sublime Clojure REPL
       | myself. And you know what? I started to really enjoy Clojure
       | exceptions! Short, concise, pointing directly to the error,
       | formatted in Clojure naming convention, not in Java munged style
       | which you need to decypher back to Clojure. It's a fantastic
       | experience, even if on paper it doesn't sound as much.
       | 
       | Aren't bad exceptions one of the top issues for new (and old)
       | users? I think solving this is a much bigger deal than you're
       | making it out to be.
        
       | nop_slide wrote:
       | I've never done any Lisp before, is Clojure a good starting
       | candidate?
        
         | dunefox wrote:
         | Only if you know the JVM and a bit of Java, otherwise I would
         | look at Scheme or Racket tbh.
        
         | kitd wrote:
         | Further to other replies, you can dabble with Clojure using
         | Babashka [1], a Clojure runtime compiled to native code that
         | allows you to execute scripts without a full JVM.
         | 
         | It also has support for defining & running 'tasks', which makes
         | it useful as a simple build system.
         | 
         | [1] https://babashka.org/
        
         | llovan wrote:
         | I got my start in Clojure with ClojureScript. If you do front
         | end web development it's a great way to jump in. I think I
         | actually now prefer ClojureScript with the Reagent and Re-frame
         | libraries more than standard React using js/TypeScript.
        
         | Arcanum-XIII wrote:
         | Yes, no.
         | 
         | Yes because it's a very nice language, with lot of bells and
         | whistles. Javascript and Java integration are nearly perfect,
         | allowing you to have a access huge ecosystem. No because even
         | though there's progress regarding the error reporting, it's not
         | always simple to parse them. No because you'll have to
         | understand way more Java than you may be willing to. No because
         | it's not Lisp per se. It's nearly a different beast.
         | 
         | Would I recommend it? YES. But know that "Here be dragons"
        
         | gradys wrote:
         | Definitely. It's got great learning resources like Clojure for
         | the Brave and True, and it's very practical. There is good
         | support for using it in server-side work, web apps, both
         | frontend and backend, and now even lightweight scripting.
        
       | gavinray wrote:
       | This is stellar work from Tonsky as usual, nice to see the
       | innovation here.
       | 
       | Though I made the same point about inline real-time evaluation
       | being better than a REPL recently, and my comment received no
       | such fanfare =(
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29217815
        
         | simongray wrote:
         | It can be confusing.
         | 
         | For instance, when people speak about "the REPL" in the Clojure
         | community they are talking about a live application thats is
         | integrated with the editor like 99% of the time, they don't
         | mean a command-line prompt. All Lisps use REPLs for interactive
         | development in this manner.
        
       | ReleaseCandidat wrote:
       | > get rid of the extra "REPL" panel for good. Why do you need it
       | if you can see your results inline?
       | 
       | But I do not want them inline. I want to use the REPL as a
       | _interactive_ REPL, where I can write my code and later copy that
       | to the file. That's actually one of the reasons I still use
       | Emacs: Common Lisp with Sly and Clojurescript with Cider.
        
         | dunefox wrote:
         | Why do you write code in the REPL directly? Write it in a
         | buffer and send it to the REPL.
        
         | GGfpc wrote:
         | Why do you want to code in the repl when you can code in the
         | editor and eval in the repl?
        
       | GGfpc wrote:
       | This is really great. I'm not willing to move from IntelliJ but
       | the exceptions and inline evaluation are something I would love
       | to have in Cursive
        
         | ledgerdev wrote:
         | https://github.com/cursive-ide/cursive/issues/391#issuecomme...
        
         | kbuchanan wrote:
         | Inline evaluation is overwhelmingly what I miss from vim-
         | fireplace when I moved to Cursive. Having said that, the code
         | navigation tools are so much better.
        
       | Lev1a wrote:
       | Wow, that is certainly one way of making a website color scheme
       | (and alienating potential readers). Either searing the reader's
       | eyes with that gaudy yellow OR making the reader wave around
       | their mouse as a "flashlight" instead of changing or even just
       | switching the BG and FG colors.
       | 
       | I suspect accessability didn't factor that much into the thought
       | process behind designing that website.
        
         | thom wrote:
         | I think people have reacted to this comment as pure snark, but
         | I did take a moment to look at your comment history and you're
         | actually describing a physical reaction you're having, not just
         | a matter of taste. I'd love to hear how general this problem is
         | for you on the web, and how one might go around testing for
         | these sorts of accessibility issues during development. I know
         | of the various colour blindness 'simulation' tools available
         | but other than the option of a dark mode (a proper one, not a
         | gimmicky one like here) I wouldn't know how to address this
         | issue.
        
           | Lev1a wrote:
           | > I'd love to hear how general this problem is for you on the
           | web
           | 
           | For me in general "thin dark fonts on bright BG" and "bright
           | fonts on very dark BG" are both straining to the eyes
           | although the former is worse almost every time. I find myself
           | zooming in further and more often on websites with those
           | sorts of color schemes although if I zoom too far in I then
           | have to swivel my head back and forth for every line of text
           | due to my glasses having "progressive lenses"[0] ie. a pretty
           | narrow cone of vision with the right "power" to read at eye-
           | screen distance.
           | 
           | > testing for these sorts of accessibility issues during
           | development
           | 
           | - IMO a pretty good rule of thumb would be to not cover vast
           | amounts of the website in bright colors
           | 
           | - offer a dark mode, maybe even make it the default with an
           | optional light-mode
           | 
           | - respect the user's browser/system-colorscheme with the CSS
           | property "color-scheme" [1] (although in Firefox the support
           | for that feature is scheduled for the next version this
           | coming January)
           | 
           | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_lens
           | 
           | [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/color-
           | schem...
        
         | fayten wrote:
         | I really enjoy the color scheme of their site. As some work
         | arounds though, the site works well with reader mode in Safari
         | and Firefox. Also check out Dark Reader by Alexander Shutau for
         | Firefox. That may help alleviate some eye pain.
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/darkreader/
        
         | the_other wrote:
         | I have poor eyesight and am fairly sensitive to contrast
         | problems. I found this site very pleasant to read and have
         | bookmarked it for later design "inspiration".
         | 
         | Yellow on black tends to make the writing "shrink" for me,
         | lowering the readability.
        
           | mbrock wrote:
           | Yep, I have sent this website to people before with excited
           | messages like "this color scheme seems weird but I find it
           | very soothing and helpful for reading and concentrating."
        
           | Lev1a wrote:
           | For me the light/bright colors are really straining my eyes
           | since they're very sensitive to glare/bright lights as a
           | consequence of cataracts.
           | 
           | Also the switching of the FG and BG colors was just an
           | example I could think of in the moment to get something like
           | "dark mode" with minimal effort. In practice I'd probably go
           | with a somewhat "off-white"(?) FG on a medium-dark grey BG.
           | IMO a less bright white text color in this scenario does well
           | in eliminating the "shrinking" you speak of while the
           | contrast with the muted grey BG isn't too harsh.
        
       | ithrow wrote:
       | _REPL is Clojure's superpower._
       | 
       | This is the only community were I keep seeing the word
       | 'superpower' used repeatedly in most blog posts and forums.
        
       | sedivy94 wrote:
       | That website is STUNNING. WOW.
        
       | rajandatta wrote:
       | This is an exceptionally well thought out set of points on REPL
       | use for a lang like Clojure. I'm playing with Scheme but the
       | ideas here are great. Love the timing of each command if it takes
       | longer than a threshold!
        
       | shaftoe444 wrote:
       | This looks great. I've been using Calva and VS code for Clojure
       | and it works but lacks a bit of polish.
        
       | Conlectus wrote:
       | Looks nice! The inline REPL functionality reminds me a lot of the
       | (defunct) Light Table[1].
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H58-n7uldoU
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Sublime is my favorite editor and I'm so glad to see that there
       | is still enthusiasm in the community. Stoked to try this out!
        
       | tophattom wrote:
       | This looks really nice! I recently started learning Clojure and
       | picked up Tutkain as my editor plugin. This, however, looks like
       | it would better fit my workflow and I will definitely check it
       | out later!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-12-14 23:02 UTC)