[HN Gopher] Crows are self-aware just like us, says new study (2...
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Crows are self-aware just like us, says new study (2020)
Author : gls2ro
Score : 41 points
Date : 2021-12-11 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bigthink.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bigthink.com)
| codeulike wrote:
| Here's what the experiment did:
|
| _The crows were trained to watch for a flash -- which didn't
| always appear -- and then peck at a red or blue target to
| register whether or not a flash of light was seen. Ozzie and
| Glenn were also taught to understand a changing "rule key" that
| specified whether red or blue signified the presence of a flash
| with the other color signifying that no flash occurred.
|
| In each round of a test, after a flash did or didn't appear, the
| crows were presented a rule key describing the current meaning of
| the red and blue targets, after which they pecked their response.
|
| This sequence prevented the crows from simply rehearsing their
| response on auto-pilot, so to speak. In each test, they had to
| take the entire process from the top, seeing a flash or no flash,
| and then figuring out which target to peck._
|
| Not sure I'd say this means 'self aware' but it does seem smart,
| as in evidence of problem solving rather than just conditioning
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Still seems to be it could be mostly conditioning. It's
| essentially a two-part stimulous to provoke a response.
|
| Also many animals can problem-solve up to a point, even use
| tools, but that is not what "self aware" means to me. Self-
| awareness is more being able to think of yourself in the
| abstract, behave in consideration of how others may see you,
| etc.
| [deleted]
| nathias wrote:
| yes, but we can't know if they are so we have to speculate
| based on behavior and other cognitive functions that we
| associate with self-awareness.
| number6 wrote:
| Crows or humans?
| kitd wrote:
| Corvids are among the most capable problem solvers in the
| animal kingdom. Ravens are known to have copied complex
| sequences of actions, and not just in a rote fashion, but
| understanding what was being done (ie empathetically) and
| adjusting their own behaviour when conditions were changed.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Of course, us being self-aware is pure conjecture.
| beardyw wrote:
| I was part of a test. The whole flash, red, blue thing was way
| over my head.
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| I will let you know I am very aware of my lack of self-
| awareness.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Speak for yourself!
|
| I'm here all week - I think.
| jakear wrote:
| We think therefore we are -- aren't we?
| willcipriano wrote:
| A short video I enjoy along these lines:
|
| Causal understanding of water displacement by a crow:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZerUbHmuY04
| colechristensen wrote:
| I don't doubt that corvids are quite intelligent, but I do find
| the conclusion jump in this type of science from "we did these
| experiments and saw these results" to "crows are self aware" to
| be quite dubious. Specifically the connection between X and Y in
| "we are demonstrating X by doing Y" is very often quite weak and
| prevalent across scientific disciplines.
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