[HN Gopher] Crows are self-aware just like us, says new study (2...
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       Crows are self-aware just like us, says new study (2020)
        
       Author : gls2ro
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2021-12-11 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bigthink.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bigthink.com)
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | Here's what the experiment did:
       | 
       |  _The crows were trained to watch for a flash -- which didn't
       | always appear -- and then peck at a red or blue target to
       | register whether or not a flash of light was seen. Ozzie and
       | Glenn were also taught to understand a changing "rule key" that
       | specified whether red or blue signified the presence of a flash
       | with the other color signifying that no flash occurred.
       | 
       | In each round of a test, after a flash did or didn't appear, the
       | crows were presented a rule key describing the current meaning of
       | the red and blue targets, after which they pecked their response.
       | 
       | This sequence prevented the crows from simply rehearsing their
       | response on auto-pilot, so to speak. In each test, they had to
       | take the entire process from the top, seeing a flash or no flash,
       | and then figuring out which target to peck._
       | 
       | Not sure I'd say this means 'self aware' but it does seem smart,
       | as in evidence of problem solving rather than just conditioning
        
         | throwawayboise wrote:
         | Still seems to be it could be mostly conditioning. It's
         | essentially a two-part stimulous to provoke a response.
         | 
         | Also many animals can problem-solve up to a point, even use
         | tools, but that is not what "self aware" means to me. Self-
         | awareness is more being able to think of yourself in the
         | abstract, behave in consideration of how others may see you,
         | etc.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | nathias wrote:
           | yes, but we can't know if they are so we have to speculate
           | based on behavior and other cognitive functions that we
           | associate with self-awareness.
        
             | number6 wrote:
             | Crows or humans?
        
         | kitd wrote:
         | Corvids are among the most capable problem solvers in the
         | animal kingdom. Ravens are known to have copied complex
         | sequences of actions, and not just in a rote fashion, but
         | understanding what was being done (ie empathetically) and
         | adjusting their own behaviour when conditions were changed.
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | Of course, us being self-aware is pure conjecture.
        
         | beardyw wrote:
         | I was part of a test. The whole flash, red, blue thing was way
         | over my head.
        
         | maximus-decimus wrote:
         | I will let you know I am very aware of my lack of self-
         | awareness.
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | Speak for yourself!
         | 
         | I'm here all week - I think.
        
         | jakear wrote:
         | We think therefore we are -- aren't we?
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | A short video I enjoy along these lines:
       | 
       | Causal understanding of water displacement by a crow:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZerUbHmuY04
        
       | colechristensen wrote:
       | I don't doubt that corvids are quite intelligent, but I do find
       | the conclusion jump in this type of science from "we did these
       | experiments and saw these results" to "crows are self aware" to
       | be quite dubious. Specifically the connection between X and Y in
       | "we are demonstrating X by doing Y" is very often quite weak and
       | prevalent across scientific disciplines.
        
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