[HN Gopher] Ask HN: A cheap smartwatch with a supported SDK
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       Ask HN: A cheap smartwatch with a supported SDK
        
       Hi HN, I'd love to buy a smart watch for 50$ or less that'll allow
       me to develop my own apps.  Looks like Google is coming out with
       Wear OS 3 soon, so I don't want to invest any real money in a Watch
       until then
        
       Author : 41209
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2021-12-11 16:42 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
       | azdle wrote:
       | The Bangle.js 2 just delivered to kickstarter backers:
       | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gfw/banglejs-2-the-open...
       | 
       | AFAICT, it's fully open source software (except, presumably, the
       | nordic hal stuff?), with a JS SDK and a hosted IDE. But, I
       | haven't used it yet because it requires WebBluetooth, and I
       | refuse to use chrome, and I haven't figured out if the rasppi
       | hosted IDE is still supported or not, it seems that the `nw`
       | package doesn't support arm (anymore?).
       | 
       | But this was the best option I found when I was looking awhile
       | ago.
       | 
       | The other things I considered were the Pinetime (software is
       | still a bit too early from what I've seen) and "Paul's Open-
       | Smartwatch" https://open-smartwatch.github.io/, but I really
       | wanted GPS and that version's design isn't finished yet.
        
         | psytrx wrote:
         | I'm wearing mine for a few weeks now, but it's been rather
         | unstable for me. BTLE disconnects are common, and I'm not sure
         | what the source of the problem might be. Also, it sometimes
         | freezes in an infinite loop and drains battery really quickly
         | when that happens.
         | 
         | These are all problems fixable with software updates, and it's
         | very early stages of the project. The app store grew from 80 to
         | 130 apps in the last 3 weeks.
         | 
         | The hardware on the other hand is great. It doesn't feel cheap,
         | but it's really lightweight, which I enjoy. The e-ink display
         | is crisp and clear, easily readable in direct sunlight, and it
         | has 8 colors, which is a cool feature for an e-ink display.
         | 
         | Didn't get my hands dirty with the SDK yet, but will hopefully
         | find some time during the holidays. It looks well thought out
         | though, and the web IDE and emulator seem useful.
         | 
         | Really looking forward to dig into it.
        
         | AmosLightnin wrote:
         | Just got my Bangle.js 2 and like it very much. Also purchased a
         | Watchy for the epaper display a few months back. Compared to
         | Watchy, the espruino IDE and ecosystem for Bangle.js 2 is much
         | more developed and the community much more active. There is
         | support for widgets, custom settings, and apps other than watch
         | faces, and the development / sharing path is much more thought
         | through. Check out the app loader, and the 300 or so apps (all
         | source available on github) here: https://banglejs.com/apps/
        
           | 41209 wrote:
           | This is pretty amazing, I'll buy one as soon as possible.
           | 
           | Can you modify the OS itself.
           | 
           | I want to program a watch that doesn't actually tell time.
        
         | simonvc wrote:
         | Upvote for BangleJS2. Been wearing mine for a couple of weeks
         | now and it's great. The always on transreflective screen is
         | really easy to read in sunlight and the battery seems great
         | (over a week). Being able to quickly hack watch faces using the
         | online IDE is great, i've hacked mine to be easy to read when
         | i'm usually asleep and only care about the time, not the date
         | and other stuff.
        
           | 41209 wrote:
           | This looks closest to what I want, I signed up for their
           | waiting list
        
       | sokoloff wrote:
       | I picked up a (used) Series 3 Apple Watch for $100 early last
       | year. If you got one of those, it's surely going to be worth $50
       | in 12 months.
       | 
       | I'm in the Apple ecosystem and very happy with the watch, even
       | though the newer versions are surely nicer.
        
         | tinus_hn wrote:
         | Apple Watch practically requires an iPhone though.
        
       | denysvitali wrote:
       | Depending on what you mean by "smart watch": you can try the Pine
       | Time: https://www.pine64.org/pinetime/
       | 
       | 51 USD will get you a sealed smart watch and a dev kit :)
        
         | 41209 wrote:
         | Can I write my own apps for the sealed version?
         | 
         | The dev kit seems a bit too low level for me
        
           | ushakov wrote:
           | try wasp-os
           | 
           | https://github.com/daniel-thompson/wasp-os
           | 
           | i have personally made a metronome app for it
           | 
           | https://gist.github.com/mishushakov/7af0c459178f152a27005d31.
           | ..
        
             | 41209 wrote:
             | Fantastic, I think I'll go with the Colmi P8 and try to
             | build something silly with it.
             | 
             | Thanks
        
               | ushakov wrote:
               | they provide an emulator, so you can develop apps on your
               | computer before you deploy to watch
               | 
               | https://wasp-
               | os.readthedocs.io/en/latest/appguide.html#testi...
               | 
               | the OS itself is a app and is easily customizable
               | 
               | but best the thing has to the community on Matrix/IRC.
               | Daniel, (the creator) is very responsive and without his
               | support i wouldn't be able to create my app
        
         | TrianguloY wrote:
         | It doesn't seem to have always-on display :(
         | 
         | I also want to find a good smartwatch, tired of waiting for
         | wear3.0, but an always-on display is a must have for me.
        
           | lmns wrote:
           | With that budget you won't find an always-on display. OLED
           | panels are just too expensive.
        
             | kristianp wrote:
             | What about transflective lcd, like some Garmin forerunners?
        
             | monsieurbanana wrote:
             | How about e-ink watches? I know nothing about them, but it
             | seems they exist and aren't specially pricy.
        
               | 1ibsq wrote:
               | Watchy [1] has already be mentioned somewhere below and
               | has an e-paper display.
               | 
               | [1] https://watchy.sqfmi.com
        
         | fit2rule wrote:
         | PineTime watch is also a _great_ place to learn Rust.
        
       | palyancodr wrote:
       | Hi!
       | 
       | Check out the watchX: https://youtu.be/AKSIGRdL-ts You can code
       | it with Scratch or Arduino. There are a lot of examples
       | available: https://community.watchx.io/t/watchx-watch-face-
       | collection/6...
        
       | h4waii wrote:
       | You can still develop for Pebble, even though the entire thing is
       | EoL. There are lots of Pebble enthusiasts and work is still being
       | done on the platform through Rebble.
       | 
       | There's also Bangle.js to keep an eye on.
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | Yeah, Pebble has a great SDK and since it's defunct there's no
         | update treadmill anymore. Anything you build today will be
         | guaranteed to work as long as the hardware does.
        
       | alistairjallan wrote:
       | The Lillygo or TTGO watches you'll find on AliExpress support
       | Arduino libraries, Python, C or even JavaScript.
        
       | seniorivn wrote:
       | pinetime
        
       | Jugurtha wrote:
       | I have worked for many years on fitness trackers from
       | https://www.jointcorp.com. Talking with them, they sent PDF files
       | for the communications protocol (Bluetooth Low Energy). I wrote a
       | generic codec that consumes a YAML file and could decode packets
       | from these devices to Python objects, and which could take a
       | Python API call for a function you didn't write and encode it to
       | binary packets the watch could understand. Practically, when we
       | needed to use another device, I just added to the YAML file and
       | the thing worked with practically no code change. New watch with
       | GPS data? Just add to the YAML file and magic happens. Watch with
       | blood pressure feature? Just add a few lines to the YAML file and
       | magic happens.
       | 
       | The code was on a Raspberry PI in which a 3G/4G dongle was
       | plugged, and it connected to the watch, uploaded data, was robust
       | do disconnection events either internet or BLE (used Thespian and
       | the Actor model to create and kill actors). The devices were
       | geographically distributed on different timezones (a fucking
       | nightmare) and basically needed to work for users with zero
       | technical skills. It needed to be plug and play and it just
       | works. Even configuring the pairing between a Raspberry PI and
       | the watch needed to be low touch (I used the analogy of a dog and
       | a hand: you put your hand out for the dog to smell and recognize
       | you, you put the watch nearby the Raspberry PI and it computed
       | the RSSI and duration to detect the "intent" so it didn't pair
       | with "drive-by" devices). Kind of like NFC, but for BLE. The data
       | was sent to a backend, then displayed on a mobile application
       | (the prototype had a Grafana dashboard that showed your activity
       | in near-real time).
       | 
       | Talk with them. They'll probably send you the PDF spec and you
       | can do whatever you want.
        
         | 41209 wrote:
         | That's cool, but I was trying to find a company that publishes
         | it's SDK. Ideally some app examples as well.
         | 
         | That said, given how cheap these watches are I'm open to trying
         | anything. Were you able to write your own custom app too, or
         | just consume existing data ?
        
           | Jugurtha wrote:
           | > _Were you able to write your own custom app too, or just
           | consume existing data ?_
           | 
           | As mentioned in my original comment with additional: I wrote
           | an application that ran on Raspberry PI devices in different
           | continents, countries, and time zones that connected to
           | trackers worn by people with zero technical skills and worked
           | nonetheless surviving disconnection events and automatically
           | upgrading the software, communicating with the trackers and
           | sending serialized data (protobufs) to a server application
           | in Scala my colleague wrote, that then made analysis and
           | aggregations and sent result to yet another mobile
           | application (Android) another colleague wrote to display
           | graphs and other data. The application I wrote worked with
           | several models of this company's products, and at some point,
           | we thought of making it more generic and use it for video and
           | sound feeds for another project ("sound event detection",
           | let's say).
           | 
           | Yes, I was able to build a custom app and it worked not only
           | on my data, but on others' data as well.
           | 
           | The funniest conversations we had were about _time_ and _time
           | zones_. At some point, we started using _timestamp timestamp_
           | and _timestamp not timestamp_ because working on data from
           | multiple time zones makes you question what on earth is
           | _time_ , and what actually is _now_ ( "Now for whom?" "Now
           | where?").
           | 
           | I had literally _nightmares_ about time and time zones. No, I
           | am not kidding.
        
             | 41209 wrote:
             | >that ran on Raspberry PI devices
             | 
             | You were able to create a companion app, but I'm talking
             | about actually running custom apps on the tracker itself.
             | Do you know if that's possible
        
               | Jugurtha wrote:
               | > _You were able to create a companion app, but I 'm
               | talking about actually running custom apps on the tracker
               | itself. Do you know if that's possible_
               | 
               | I understand. You meant an SDK to create an application
               | for the tracker itself, not get the raw data (which many
               | of the trackers don't even give easily) and then make
               | something with that.
               | 
               | I am not aware if they support, or give access to this. I
               | misunderstood your original question.
        
               | 41209 wrote:
               | Yes, I want to actually make apps for the tracker. Other
               | watches do support this, according to other posts in the
               | thread.
               | 
               | However, your use case did spark my interest. Were you
               | running a fitness company or something, was the tracker a
               | key part of making sure your customers stayed on track.
        
               | Jugurtha wrote:
               | We worked on a project for the elderly: we wanted to
               | detect anomalies in their behavior to scale social
               | workers and draw their attention to the seniors who
               | actually needed assistance. Is there an anomaly in their
               | behavior (lack of heart-rate variability is thought to be
               | a sign of depression or other problems? are they walking
               | less than usual? are they sleeping well? what is the
               | proxy for loneliness? what is a proxy for anxiousness?
               | are they waking up in the middle of the night when they
               | didn't use to? Have they fell?)
               | 
               | The mobile application was for social workers to track
               | the behavior of seniors who were assigned to them. They
               | received alerts based on some triggers and rules after
               | analyzing the data that we consulted cariologists, social
               | workers, paramedics for.
               | 
               | It was psychologically hard because the question I always
               | asked the team was "Would you trust your parents' life
               | with this?", and we built against that standard with the
               | constraints at the time with the answer almost always
               | being "no, I can improve X, Y, and Z". It was never
               | enough.
        
       | diego_moita wrote:
       | You can find old Pebbles at that price at eBay[1]
       | 
       | IMO, it still is one of the best smartwatches.
       | 
       | [1]:
       | https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m...
        
         | lormayna wrote:
         | How do you deal with the lack of Pebbles cloud services?
        
           | metapsj wrote:
           | hopefully you find this helpful...
           | 
           | On December 7th, 2016, Pebble announced that they were
           | ceasing operations. Two days later, on December 9th, 2016,
           | the Rebble web site went live, announcing our intention to
           | "maintain and advance Pebble functionality, in the absence of
           | Pebble Technology Corp." We have fulfilled much of this goal
           | via Rebble Web Services, which restores most of the
           | functionality that the Pebble community knows and loves.
           | 
           | https://rebble.io/
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | Rebble is still hosting them and they work great. But they're
           | not really required for the watch to work.
        
           | habeebtc wrote:
           | Personally, I find the lack of cloud services to be relaxing.
           | Because the thing always works that way, instead of
           | occasionally melting down because some cloud service is
           | having an outage and the failure mode is not well thought
           | out.
        
       | jsilence wrote:
       | Maybe Watchy does what you want. No personal experience though.
       | https://watchy.sqfmi.com/
        
         | craftinator wrote:
         | I have one, and have found it quite excellent. Easy to play
         | around with, pretty good documentation, and the eink is really
         | nice. There's something like 30 watch faces already designed,
         | so you can just fork off one you like.
         | 
         | Highly recommend the anodized aluminum case. The plastic one is
         | sturdy enough, but with the thickness of the material, makes
         | the watch feel bulky. Also, the aluminum one has such a good
         | fit (they are precision CNCed) that it can handle water
         | splashes with no problem, and a few gaskets can get it to IP64
         | or 65
        
       | atemerev wrote:
       | There are many ESP32 smartwatches available on Aliexpress for
       | about this price. ESP32 is compatible with Arduino IDE,
       | PlatformIO, and many other development tools.
        
       | sorenjan wrote:
       | > Looks like Google is coming out with Wear OS 3 soon
       | 
       | Wear OS 3 is already out.
       | 
       | https://www.androidauthority.com/wear-os-3-watches-2736393/
        
       | evan_ wrote:
       | See if you can find a Timex Datalink on eBay
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-11 23:01 UTC)