[HN Gopher] Sleep technique used by Salvador Dali works
___________________________________________________________________
Sleep technique used by Salvador Dali works
Author : ohiovr
Score : 632 points
Date : 2021-12-10 21:51 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.livescience.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.livescience.com)
| syspec wrote:
| Sounds interesting, but I have such a hard time falling asleep,
| that the last thing I want to do is be woken up once just as I
| do.
| arbuge wrote:
| > To use the technique, visionaries such as Dali and Edison would
| hold an object, such as a spoon or a ball, while falling asleep
| in a chair.
|
| This one isn't going to work for me, I think. I can never fall
| asleep in chairs or anywhere except comfortably lying down.
| Perhaps I could try holding one arm with a ball in it off the
| edge of the bed.
| ankitg12 wrote:
| A powernap (one good audio here -
| https://soundcloud.com/withandrewjohnson/power-nap-with-andr...)
| can be helpful to get into some of this state.
| chromejs10 wrote:
| Didn't Benjamin Franklin do this? If I recall from his biography,
| he'd essentially hold a marble or something while in his rocking
| chair and it would drop onto a plate
| smusamashah wrote:
| Lying down holding phone right above your face reading HN at 2am
| should work the same.
| dlkf wrote:
| There is an interesting discussion to be had about the
| experimental design. The intervention was essentially: "the
| subject managed to fall asleep, and then woke up in the N1
| stage." This assignment is not "random" in the same way that a
| drug trial is random. There are many general-state variables
| which likely govern our ability to fall asleep (anxiety, hunger,
| etc) and this study doesn't block any of them in the same way
| that a drug trial would (via randomization). That being said, the
| fact that participants who fell asleep and _didn't_ wake during
| N1 did not see improvement over control makes me more intrigued.
| (Assuming this is all true: brain scan research is really noisy
| and small-sample-size and has an atrocious replication record).
| fareesh wrote:
| Anecdotally I can confirm that a lot of this is true
| ardrak wrote:
| Modern day version of the technique is the phone falling in your
| face.
| balaji1 wrote:
| not before misclicking a few likes or ads
| boublepop wrote:
| Or sending out a tweet about covfefe.
| lucb1e wrote:
| I had never heard of covfefe before, that's a funny read on
| Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covfefe). Thanks
| for that one.
| [deleted]
| svachalek wrote:
| When I was younger, often "falling" asleep felt like literally
| falling. I'd slam my arms down on the bed to "catch" myself, and
| shoot straight into a panicked awake state until my heart was
| ready to sleep again. I'd usually have memories just as
| described, weird combinations of the physical reality of my
| bedroom with random dream-stuff. I've also felt this on
| airplanes, not able to fall into any deeper level of sleep but
| fast-forwarding through time in a semi-aware state.
|
| I did have some really interesting ideas, but usually without
| writing them down they are forgotten, so I tried that for a
| while. Can't say I ever thought of anything actually useful this
| way though, or ever thought about doing it to myself on purpose.
| s0rr0wskill wrote:
| This happens to me usually once every week ever since covid
| started and I got better sleep
| bener wrote:
| That is called a hypnic (or hypnagogic) or myoclonic jerk, it's
| pretty common just before you fall asleep.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I feel like this is only helpful if one has the resources to
| pursue the ideas. Otherwise it could be depressing.
| theartfuldodger wrote:
| I thought Edison's "visionary" status had been discarded and his
| primary skillsets were deceit and self publicity?
|
| How much meditation time does it take to strong arm other
| people's work over and over again?
|
| It's a talent, but visionary doesn't seem apt.
| cryptonector wrote:
| Let's say Edison created none of his lab's inventions. But it
| was still a lab he put together, was it not? He should get some
| credit -- so should the individual inventors, no doubt, but the
| question is just how visionary Edison was, and if his only real
| vision was creating a lab, hiring, and so on, then visionary he
| most definitely was.
| ethanpil wrote:
| I have always felt that Steve Jobs and Thomas Edison are two
| sides of one coin... it seems that both of their successes are
| related to the mix of a driving vision, controversial
| management style and relentless push for innovation. Different
| eras, similar results...
| ohiovr wrote:
| Culminating ideas to place items in a market place and market
| them to be desirable to the public, while electrocuting
| elephants is hard work for any man.
| [deleted]
| denvaar wrote:
| Sometimes I fall asleep with my hands on the keyboard and wake up
| soon after to find jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj... in my
| editor
| soheil wrote:
| Can we please respect readers and not post ad riddled sites like
| this to HN? It's impossible to read a paragraph without an ad
| jumping in the way.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Adblock is your friend.
|
| There are mobile browsers which support this (Firefox notably),
| and mobile-device adblock apps as well, in the event you're not
| on a desktop system.
|
| If you're in a corporate environment, put in a request for
| adblock on your network as, amongst other things, a security
| feature:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28631005
| marcodiego wrote:
| I'd doubt it works well for tasks that require concentration. A
| good period of sleep is important for these.
| rebuilder wrote:
| I'm a visual artist and I guess I use this all the time, although
| I don't have any wake-up device. I just lie down for a nap and
| loosely let my mind wander around whatever I'm trying to work on,
| or just undirected.
|
| The images just start to come, not like visual hallucinations,
| but like someone else were imagining things for me, almost.
|
| I guess it's good I work from home, and not in an office
| somewhere...
| mdp2021 wrote:
| Other commentary on the original research article, on Scientific
| American:
|
| _Spark Creativity with Thomas Edison 's Napping Technique_ -
| Waking yourself from the twilight state just before sleep may
| help you to solve a challenging problem, a study shows
|
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thomas-edisons-na...
|
| Even better, there is an article from the very original research
| coordinator Delphine Oudiette on The Conversation [Fra]
|
| https://theconversation.com/pour-doper-votre-creativite-fait...
|
| which, miraculously - since a dozen online magazines commented on
| this _but never linked it_ (?! !!! !) -, contains the link to the
| original research article,
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870...
| agumonkey wrote:
| I heard the pre nap brain was also more creative. Just laying
| down on bed was enough to change your imagination.
| diatone wrote:
| Anecdote: I distinctly remember being on the edge of sleep
| writing a song one night in 2019. I was about to fall asleep on
| the floor with a notebook in my hand, and just at that moment,
| the music came into my mind. For whatever reason, I was able to
| stay awake and flesh it out as a recording. After reflecting on
| it the next day I realised I had written an acoustic fingerstyle
| piece that moved across keys as if there were multiple voicings
| in the accompaniment all moving independently in polyphony. Far
| more harmonically complex than anything I had written before, or
| since.
|
| Three weeks later my partner and I played it for the first time
| in a pub, and the normally cosy and laugh-filled room fell
| silent. We had the exact same experience in another open mic
| night a couple of weeks afterwards, where we took the first-place
| prize before the competition even finished. It was as if people
| were moved by it without any effort or coercion, like we cast a
| spell over people.
|
| Now it makes sense! I've heard music play in my mind as I've
| fallen asleep before; this news explains this story almost
| perfectly. Unreal. Live on the edge of sleep and magic can
| happen. I wonder what health risks there are with prolonged use?
| grupthink wrote:
| I'm also interested in hearing your music especially since it
| came from a lucid state.
| pier25 wrote:
| Wow what a story!
|
| Is this available anywhere?
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| I read that The XX would intentionally stay up until the wee
| hours of the morning, and would only start recording once they
| begun to nod off. Their music sounds so nocturnal and dreamy
| that I'm sure it must be true.
| diatone wrote:
| To everyone asking for a recording: I appreciate the curiosity,
| but we were very much a live act.
|
| But I hope my little story encourages you to pursue the arts,
| and nurture them in your local area. Your local live music
| scene needs your support, so we can see serendipities like this
| appear :)
| kwonkicker wrote:
| The people wants the link. so you better deliver.
| saltyfamiliar wrote:
| That reminds me of this quote from Dick Dale, "I still remember
| the first night we played it ('Misirlou'). I changed the tempo,
| and just started cranking on that mother. And ... it was eerie.
| The people came rising up off the floor, and they were chanting
| and stomping."
|
| It seems like people really are susceptible to a sort of mass
| hypnosis if you can make the right noises.
| exitb wrote:
| I love music and I've attempted music making at various points
| in my life, but I'm just not great at it. I don't have the
| imagination to plan and layer out the interesting bits that
| make a good song. But my near-sleeping mind is totally able to
| do that. And this is at least a semi-conscious process, where
| I'm able to direct the music as it's being "played" in my mind.
| As I said, I'm very much an amateur, so I wouldn't describe it
| as genius, but it's still much better than anything I can
| create awake.
|
| I've also noticed that this translates into other areas as
| well, like architecture or languages - I can hear a very
| convincingly sounding sentence in a language I'm familiar with
| just well enough to know that it was gibberish.
| bschwindHN wrote:
| I'm pretty sure there's some sort of internet rule where you
| have to share a link to this music if you make such an
| interesting post!
| jakear wrote:
| Unfortunately that same rule also stipulates that at each
| stage of the musical work being rendered to a digital medium,
| transferred to an unknown location, then played back using
| unknown equipment, a portion of the magic is irrecoverably
| lost.
| genewitch wrote:
| I dunno, I'd rather have heard that really awful recording
| of the last living castrati than never have heard it, for
| instance.
|
| Then again I listen to 1940s radio programs while driving,
| so I might be biased.
| _dain_ wrote:
| Can you share this piece? I want to hear it now.
| alvarlagerlof wrote:
| Can you share this?
| mdp2021 wrote:
| You must know of the "Trillo del Diavolo" from Giuseppe Tartini
| (first half XVIII century).
|
| (He asked the devil in a dream to play something for him, and
| the very pale imitation is the _Sonata per violino in sol
| minore_ he wrote from memory once wake.)
|
| Of course, also _Kubla Khan_ from Coleridge comes to mind.
| waltbosz wrote:
| Do you have a recording of the song online?
|
| You story reminds me of a video by Jack Conte and his wife
| about their experience with lucid dreaming. They talk about how
| he wrote a song while dreaming.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yti4yYZqtMo
| djmips wrote:
| I did the same thing and no one would probably believe it
| except I recorded it as a MIDI stream. The next day I played it
| to my boss and he wouldn't accept that I composed it. (edit -
| it was a complex classical piano piece)
| lrem wrote:
| Can we have a link?
| djmips wrote:
| I wish I still had it but it was on a 3.5 inch floppy that
| was misplaced in the chaos of time.
| boublepop wrote:
| It sounds like this study has a series of problems. No control
| group, no reference measurement, no predefined hypothesis, and it
| doesn't seem to mention number of participants, unless I missed
| it suggesting that it's a small number.
|
| From this read I doubt it would replicate under stricter
| experimental conditions and with more rigor.
|
| Edit: Oh and I forgot that the noted effect being equated with
| creativity is somewhat unreliable. Essentially they where given a
| math problem that randomly seems to also give an answer you can
| find in the number itself, but anyone would know that this can't
| be relied upon and might lead to errors if you just assume that's
| the answer. That is unless your unfocused or just less logical.
| They could repeat the test and replace the sleep element with
| getting drunk and they would likely see an effect.
| pelario wrote:
| Isn't the group that stayed awake the control group? Number of
| participants is mentioned repeatedly, also per group.
|
| I suspect you just read the press article and not the study
| (linked in the press article).
|
| https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abj5866
| balaji1 wrote:
| Curse the wretched spoon for disturbing you and go back to sleep.
| arpa wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoiac-critical_method
| ohiovr wrote:
| My Dad also took a lot of naps. I've never been able to fill his
| shoes figuratively or literally. He was sharp as a pin.
| stavros wrote:
| He also had big feet?
| ohiovr wrote:
| Sure did. He stood 6 foot 4 inches. I'm 5'9. His shoes were
| quite fascinating growing up as a little guy.
| p10jkle wrote:
| I have aphantasia, but this exact state (just as I fall asleep)
| is the only time I can consciously see images in my head. It's
| very odd
| JshWright wrote:
| Same here-- though it's not "images" in my case, best I can
| manage is a blob of either green, red, or purple (but I can
| consciously control which color it is, so that's neat)
| srcreigh wrote:
| Same. I also see images while dreaming though. And after
| drinking alcohol, after lying down to sleep, but in an earlier
| state than about-to-fall-asleep, I see weird star patterns.
|
| My pre-sleep alcohol induced imagination is like a colored star
| which keeps changing in different ways. It follows a rhythm,
| maybe similar to my heartbeat. Maybe the color will change,
| maybe the center of the star will grow in size, maybe the star
| will get more spikes. It often fills my mind's eye quickly. It
| usually lasts just a few seconds right as I lay down. Sometimes
| at the end it develops into more like images than star
| patterns, but it feels similar.
| thoraway66 wrote:
| Oh this is a thing? This happens to me when I'm working all
| night. I don't work late often but when I do I'll drift in and
| out of a half dozing state to reset and have a burst of coding
| energy.
|
| I never knew this was a Dali thing. I purposely push myself those
| nights to get to the point of drifting in and out.
|
| Again, not something I do often, and when I do I'm already in a
| pretty creative mood.
| djtriptych wrote:
| I was so inspired by this concept a decade ago that I registered
| hypnagogics.com (currently down)
| Sparrowhawk21 wrote:
| Same thing as yoga nidra?
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_nidra
| AdamJMarsh wrote:
| This is interesting. In our never-ending 24 hour news cycle, our
| central nervous systems are hijacked by adrenaline, glucose,
| nicotine & caffeine.
|
| It is a never ending struggle for our bodies to feel relaxed. I
| fully believe this is a major hindrance to creativity as the
| logical, ordered side takes over and rules the roost like a
| dictator.
|
| Although I haven't used this specific technique, I have however
| done Alexander Technique in my theatre training. It's incredible
| how much tension our bodies can hold without our minds being
| aware or conscious of it.
| okareaman wrote:
| I once fell asleep while coming down from LSD and woke up with
| sleep paralysis. I was wide awake, still buzzed from the acid and
| completely paralyzed. Fortunately I didn't panic despite not
| knowing about sleep paralysis and thinking the LSD had paralyzed
| me. It took me awhile but I managed to shake myself into movement
| finally.
| sammalloy wrote:
| I've experimented with all of these techniques, and you basically
| get the same benefit from 20 minutes of vigorous exercise.
| pvarangot wrote:
| I have some success with the TM technique, some days I'm just
| drained and don't want to do anything and after 20 minutes of
| TM in the afternoon I spring up and engage in hobbies or social
| activities as if it was a new day. It's better than a nap,
| which just gets rid of the heavy bodied tiredness. I also tried
| mindfulness before but I feel I get kinda like the creativity
| boost but not the rested state.
| faeyanpiraat wrote:
| TM?
| pvarangot wrote:
| Transcendental Meditation. It's a more passive way of
| meditation than mindfulness that was kinda like a big I
| thing I think in the 70s or something? A lot of rich people
| are into it, most notable David Lynch and I think Jim
| Carrey... they have good marketing and it's kinda expensive
| if you are on a high earning bracket but of the woo woo
| weird things I spent money on it's one I don't regret.
| soared wrote:
| Is 'tm' transcendental meditation in this context?
| pvarangot wrote:
| Yes
| jmkd wrote:
| For years this has been a personal joy of cycling to
| work...arriving at work with a thousand ideas of how to solve
| various challenges, and returning home scrambling for a
| notebook to capture the wild thoughts that emerged on the last
| half of the journey.
| mkaic wrote:
| This is absolutely fascinating. I'm really interested to learn
| _why_ this seems to work so reliably well. What 's going on on a
| chemical/electrical level in the brain during N1 sleep that gives
| it this unique ability, and why does it go away if you go too
| deep and enter N2 sleep?
|
| Also, I'm incredibly eager to try this out now. First I've heard
| of it and it seems too good to be true.
| johnisgood wrote:
| I was also amazed when I could solve logic puzzles (it was a
| logic game) after having looked at it[1] for a couple of
| seconds. I cannot/could not explain how I solved it, I could
| not tell you in advance that I have to move left, then right to
| connect this and that and so forth, but after having looked at
| it for a couple of seconds, I pressed the keys "intuitively"
| and solved it! I did not believe that it really worked at
| first, but after I solved many difficult levels this way, I was
| pleasantly shocked. I remember being somewhat sleep deprived at
| that time as well.
|
| [1] As in... simply looked. I did not try to solve it
| consciously.
| posix86 wrote:
| I've had a similar experience but, but my takeaway was: what
| does it mean to solve something? Consciously? You still skip
| so many steps; often, I think we just "think through" the
| state of the puzzle in order to load its configuration; the
| solution pops into our head, which then think through again -
| and we call it conscious thought. It's like an idea popping
| into your head: You instantly take credit for it, but
| frankly, did you come up with the idea? Didn't you just start
| feeling like you got something and you started talking, and
| the words kept making sense? lmao
| Flankk wrote:
| I'm going to try this now. Will report back.
| [deleted]
| Flankk wrote:
| Set the marble down then fell asleep. Need a better method.
| ohiovr wrote:
| Looks like the brain has several layers of conscious states.
| The brain consumes many calories and thinking hard can make you
| tired. Especially if you have been very productive for a long
| time and then hit a wall. At the point of mental exhaustion,
| the brain desires sleep. You fall asleep and begin having a
| psychosis. The brain uses symbols that represent the psychosis
| causing hallucination. There is something about breaking the
| psychosis at the right time that alleviates some mental
| problems. Disclosure: I'm bipolar. I have some experience with
| psychosis I can tell you! All dreams are like psychoses..
| mkaic wrote:
| What does psychosis actually refer to? I've heard the term
| but am not familiar with its official meaning
| ohiovr wrote:
| To those suffering it, it is normal reality, but to those
| observing it, it is chaos.
| quacked wrote:
| I also have some personal experience with psychosis,
| although I don't want to disclose it on HN. How do you
| personally know when you're done experiencing it and have
| "returned to normal"?
| ohiovr wrote:
| The right level sleep is important. I have a lot of
| difficulty with this.
| ohiovr wrote:
| It depends on how deep it is. At a certain depth the only
| thing that can alert you (if you have it as a tenancy
| like I do) is the reactions of other people. THC can
| amplify the effect but CBD can dampen it. I don't know
| why I use either. I'm just imperfect that way. I'm bad to
| the bone.
| quacked wrote:
| The formal definition according to Google is "a severe
| mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so
| impaired that contact is lost with external reality", so I
| guess technically, a dream meets that definition.
|
| I think the commenter you're responding to is also
| referring to the way that in a psychotic state, all actions
| make sense to the psychotic person. The "psycho" stops
| following a deductive/conscious/scientific logic chain, and
| starts following inductive/subconscious/superstitious logic
| chain, all while perceiving internally a consistent
| narrative of reality.
|
| Examples in the difference in logic chains:
|
| - In a non-psychotic state, when I'm in my bedroom and
| notice that I am cold, I do not start a fire, because (a)
| fire is dangerous inside; (b) I remember that I have
| blankets, an HVAC system, etc.
|
| - In a psychotic state (either dreaming or awake), when I'm
| in my bedroom and notice that I am cold, I _might_ start a
| fire, because (a) an angel told me to; (b) it will protect
| me from the spirits in the darkness; (c) I believe the
| heating system is broken (even if I haven 't looked at it)
| and I'm worried I'll freeze to death...
|
| One cannot personally perceive psychosis while psychotic--
| reality always makes sense in the moment. Even the most
| demented Alzheimer's patient will construct a narrative of
| what's happening to them, even if it's just a vague sense
| of prehistoric fear and rage at the strange object invading
| their space (which in reality is a nurse trying to give
| them a bath).
|
| I imagine you already know this but in case anyone who's
| reading doesn't: people who are labelled as "bipolar"
| uncontrollably enter mental states of varying degrees of
| psychosis where they often perform actions that hurt
| themselves and others, and then eventually they "return to
| reality" and are frequently horrified to discover what it
| is they've done. The "return to reality" sometimes requires
| medication and therapy. Observe:
| https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/i-would-like-closure-
| bu....
|
| It's not all bad for people who are diagnosed bipolar,
| though--sometimes instead of anger or fear, a manic/bipolar
| person experiences happiness/love/joy and creates a great
| work of art or makes everyone around them feel really good.
| I doubt that most bipolar-diagnosed people enjoy the down-
| swings, though, and I suspect most would rather be rid of
| their "condition".
|
| Another, slightly-related example about how psychosis
| works: if you understand a concept perfectly when someone
| else explains it, and you can't explain it to yourself once
| they're gone, you've experienced your mind perceive what
| appeared to be "reality" but was not, in fact, real. While
| the explainer was talking to you, you perceived that you
| understood the concept, and you experienced the sensation
| of understanding, but since you didn't actually understand,
| you were in a state not completely like but similar to what
| is call psychosis.
| thesz wrote:
| Both Dali and Edison did not have families and children to rise.
| They were multimillionaries also. If you are also childless and
| multimillionaire, you can experiment with what essentially a
| sleep deprivation, having hallutinations that are useful in a
| work of... genius?
|
| Also, in case of Edison, he used an army of assistants to comb
| through his ideas and patents avaiable at the time to find what
| is useful. Again, a privilege of multimillionaire
|
| These techniques cannot be used by a person who have to walk a
| dog early every morning, help his son to go to a school and work
| with complex code base.
| bener wrote:
| You could quite easily use this technique when your child is in
| bed, before your usual bedtime. It would be an interesting
| thing to try in the evening when you're stuck on a coding
| problem.
|
| It's only really useful if you can get to that stage of N1
| sleep quite quickly anyway so it wouldn't apply to all people.
| I don't think it's the domain of childless millionaires.
| aydwi wrote:
| > These techniques cannot be used by a person who have to walk
| a dog early every morning, help his son to go to a school and
| work with complex code base.
|
| Of course they can. Just not by you. Mutual exclusion does not
| apply here.
| vernon99 wrote:
| A comment from a passerby. You say it like this is something
| you don't have agency over (at least early on). It's like
| saying that "yeah, you cannot be a good painter if you are
| solving math problems all the time". Same with childless
| multimillionaires - it's not like you are born into being one.
| rnd0 wrote:
| >Same with childless multimillionaires - it's not like you
| are born into being one.
|
| I'm reasonably sure you're not saying no one is born into
| wealth, and I'm equally sure that all multimillionaires are
| born childless
| fortysixdegrees wrote:
| I have bad sleep aponea, so awake up constantly through the
| night. I am also very creative. It never occurred to me these
| things may be linked.
|
| My new CPAP machine may stifle my creativity. Huh
| kreeben wrote:
| This sleep technique can be easily replicated in modern life:
| work from home, have lunch then a lie-down then have the Teams
| app's blippedy blip blip blip incoming message audio
| notifications wake you up to the harsh world of reality.
|
| Haven't felt this leads to me feeling especially creative,
| though.
| aaron695 wrote:
| This is just napping, which many people do. It's about
| alertness (or lack of, if you nap to long) -
| http://archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/naps/
|
| What you need for this if it's real is your fitbit to wake you
| at the exact time, or perhaps something that measure muscle
| tension or brain waves.
| cgb223 wrote:
| It makes me imagine creative ways to quit my job and run away
| to an island somewhere
|
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
| ohiovr wrote:
| Don't go to an island:
|
| every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
| [rev 16:20]
| pluc wrote:
| Someone needs to measure the anxiety between the first blip and
| the potential second/multiple blips or expectation thereof
| kreeben wrote:
| My anxiety curve is exponential.
|
| First blip: Don't care
|
| Second blip: Holy moly, is the world on fire?
| mkaic wrote:
| wow, that's quite the coefficient on that exponential lol
| lukas099 wrote:
| I notice this state quite often in myself. Not every night, but
| enough that it's not really notable anymore.
|
| Usually, two seemingly unrelated concepts that I have been
| thinking about will become joined in strange ways -- sometimes
| literally (some code I have been working on will be playing a
| song I have been listening to), sometimes in ways that I can't
| understand or describe.
|
| Other times, I will hear music as loudly and clearly as if I were
| at a concert. It can be music that is actually playing, or not.
|
| I find the experience pleasant and wish I could extend it.
| srcreigh wrote:
| I've experienced similar effects first hand.
|
| University algorithm class assignment is due tomorrow at 1pm. I
| start working on it at midnight the day of. At around 4-5am I was
| stumped from a few problems, and went to campus to get some
| coffee. Tim Horton's doesn't open until 7am. I sit down in a
| chair and fall asleep.
|
| While I was sleeping (half sleeping?), I dream-solved the
| remainder of the problems.
|
| At 7am, I awoke, got my coffee, then went to type up the
| solutions.
| elboru wrote:
| I had a really similar experience during college. I was trying
| to display a binary tree in the command line. I was not able to
| solve it while awake. I went to bed with that problem in my
| mind. Then I dreamt the solution. I woke up and the dream made
| sense. I couldn't believe it so I tried in the code and it
| worked! That was a surreal experience.
| emi2k01 wrote:
| Dreaming of code is something that happens to me very
| frequently when I'm working on difficult problems and only
| the first few times was cool.
|
| Now, when I dream of code, I can hear my inner self saying
| "no, please! I actually want to rest" because most of the
| times I feel like I'm in a loop exploring the same solutions
| over and over.
|
| I've had to get out of bed and do something else so I can go
| back to sleep without having one of those weird dreams.
| nelblu wrote:
| Wow. You described my experience exactly! I used to love
| earlier when I dream solved complex problems, but now I
| don't like it.
|
| My technique to get good sleep is to fantasize that I am in
| a spaceship flying through the galaxy or observing
| Andromeda galaxy. Other times I dream of the Shire and that
| works too!
| ohiovr wrote:
| Ah.. We need to campaign for siestas in the office.
| Productivity really goes up after a nap I think. Mexicans
| were known to do this.
| texasbigdata wrote:
| Did you get the right answers? :)
|
| Hat tip for Timmies though.
| srcreigh wrote:
| I didn't get a perfect grade, but I think the insights did
| help somewhat. Maybe if I did this 1 day prior and edited my
| answers, I would have done perfectly :)
| novosel wrote:
| We must not forget to mention Einstein, who also was in the habit
| of taking naps in a an armchair while holding a rock in his hand.
| Reflecticon wrote:
| Fo real?
| dagurp wrote:
| > Luckily for Einstein, he also took regular naps. According
| to apocryphal legend, to make sure he didn't overdo it he'd
| recline in his armchair with a spoon in his hand and a metal
| plate directly beneath. He'd allow himself to drift off for a
| second, then - bam! - the spoon would fall from his hand and
| the sound of it hitting the plate would wake him up
|
| https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170612-what-you-can-
| lea...
| the_gipsy wrote:
| His name was Einstein, which means literally "one stone".
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| I don't know if this is precisely that state but I've found that
| when I drift off while reading, there will be a moment where the
| text melds with the dream state. A text on surveillance
| capitalism will sudden include a narrative or will merge with
| something else that I've read.
|
| Dreams are such a lovely experience. I love recounting them and
| the corresponding dream logic. I especially treasure filmmakers
| who can recreate that dream feeling. Fellini comes to mind.
| pier25 wrote:
| I think I once got into this hypnagogic state by accident. I was
| having a nap and my dogs woke me up because it was time for their
| walk.
|
| I felt sleepy while walking the dogs but also had a clarity
| regarding anything I examined in my mind. It's as if my regular
| state of mind was like walking in a forest with limited
| visibility, and now I could see the territory from a bird's
| perspective.
|
| This lasted for about 15 mins maybe. I've never been able to
| experience this again. Maybe I should try this technique :)
| moj wrote:
| I experienced such states on several occasions, usually
| randomly once every two or three years. I resolved to explore
| it if it happened again, and sure enough I was ready when it
| did.
|
| I soon discovered you don't have to wait years; it can happen a
| few times a week.
|
| Simple technique: - wait until you've woken up _after_ a dream.
| (so technically hypnopompic, not hypnagogic, but more powerful
| imho) - Any dream will do, but be careful not to drift back
| into normal consciousness (so don 't think of work, taxes,
| todo's, etc) - instead, imagine something fanciful. Like
| swinging at a baseball in dodger stadium in slow-motion, or, my
| favorite, imagining you have the worlds smallest record player
| between your fingers & playing a song you like (funk music is
| good for this) - stay with the humorous feeling, let it grow
| awhile - after a minute or two, you should find the dream state
| has stabilized - once it's stable, and only then, call up a
| problem or life situation you'd like insight into, or just
| explore the landscape (what's behind that circus tent?) - try
| not to get too intellectual or willful, it can dispel the state
|
| NB: no drugs required. But caffeine in the evening can increase
| the odds of waking after dreaming.
| pier25 wrote:
| What worked for me years ago was writing down my dreams.
| After a while I got really good at recalling them and even
| lucid dreaming at times. It was really cool, but I was
| single. Now I wouldn't want to wake my wife.
| burglekutt wrote:
| I used to do that and I had to stop because my recall of
| the dreams was so detailed that it took me an hour to write
| it all down in the morning. The details were too vivid to
| gloss over or not write down, and eventually I wanted that
| hour back so I stopped writing the dreams down. It was very
| cool while I was doing it though.
| smusamashah wrote:
| You could have taken voice notes instead. Must have saved
| lots of time.
| jbotz wrote:
| This is essentially lucid dream induction. Lucid dreaming is
| when you become conscious that you're dreaming while
| dreaming... and once you are consciously dreaming you can
| direct the dream actively rather than experiencing it
| passively. This can happen spontaneously during sleep, or it
| can be induced with techniques such as what you're
| describing.
| alliao wrote:
| I feel it sometimes when I think about holding the mouse, it
| feels like my teeth are extremely large and my hands are
| crazy tiny heaving the mouse along.
|
| your thing on smallest record players between fingers really
| described that feeling for me, very cool.
| c0nducktr wrote:
| I wonder if other changes, not just sleep, but quick changes to
| environment can create this effect as well.
|
| Your description regarding the feeling you had walking your
| dogs is very similar to something which happened to me once
| just as I was leaving work, as I was walking out of my office.
|
| As I walked out the door, everything felt very crisp, my mind
| felt lighter, and it was as if my senses were working at 200%.
| At that time I believe I experienced that same "clarity
| regarding anything I examined in my mind" you described. I
| thought about several things and knew in that moment _exactly_
| what needed to be done in each of them, with what felt like
| _more_ than absolute certainty. It only lasted a few minutes,
| and had left by the time I returned home.
|
| It's never happened again. When I think back on that day, I can
| almost feel it, like I'm grasping at that sense of clarity, but
| it always remains out of reach.
| pier25 wrote:
| > _I thought about several things and knew in that moment
| exactly what needed to be done in each of them, with what
| felt like more than absolute certainty._
|
| Exactly!
| stnmtn wrote:
| I had a very similar experience walking out of a movie
| theater after watching a particularly good movie this year. I
| walked around the main street in my town and it saw it from
| completely new eyes, and was able to appreciate everything
| about it without any prior opinions or memories about all the
| restaurants and shops on the block. It was surreal.
|
| I also was able to, just like you said, become aware of a
| couple of large life problems that I had been unconsciously
| ignoring, and felt such a serene sense of "absolute
| certainty" about what I wanted to do about them
|
| If I could just have that state 3-4 times a year! It was
| genuinely magical
| papandada wrote:
| I guarantee that someone out there can recommend a substance
| which achieves that effect
| post-it wrote:
| Weed could do it. Other things too, but weed is always a good
| first stop for nice mind effects.
| d1lanka wrote:
| Half a tab of LSD can get you there and keep you there for
| hours.
|
| BRB, trying.
| taneq wrote:
| And then a dozen others will jump in saying that regardless
| of the actual authenticity of the experience it doesn't count
| if you did it by directly altering brain chemistry rather
| than indirectly altering brain chemistry.
| pier25 wrote:
| Honestly, I've experimented a lot with mind altering
| substances and that was something quite different.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Meditation, if you don't overdo it (namely no longer than 30
| minutes) has the same effect.
| pier25 wrote:
| I was into meditation for years and only once doing Zazen I
| remember experimenting something similar.
|
| It's certainly possible I was doing it wrong though, but even
| in one of those 12 day silent Vipassana retreats I never got
| that kind of clarity.
| pdimitar wrote:
| I'm definitely not qualified to claim what's the right and
| wrong way of doing it but I've never dedicated even a
| single day solely on meditation in my life.
|
| Usually I was kind of like "phew, I feel tired and
| stressed, time to lay down with eyes closed for a bit", and
| it all evolved naturally from there (similarly to the so-
| called power naps of 30 minutes).
|
| So at least the key for my success in mediation was to
| treat it like a damage mitigation technique and nothing
| else. And for me that works very well.
| avereveard wrote:
| I enter such state quite often, as a result of a pattern I used
| to enter lucid dreams when younger I can recognize and
| voluntarily drift into 'aware naps' - apparently based on wife
| feedback I can do everything from chores to rocking my daughter
| bed but speech patterns are garbled, even if internally I hear
| the conversation and interiorly think coherent answers. She
| just has to wake me and I can immediately and accurately
| answer.
|
| People would think narcolepsy or sleepwalking, but it's
| voluntary, I keep memories, and keep doing whatever I need to
| be doing.
| hbarka wrote:
| I wonder if this creativity effect is related to sudden
| serendipitous moments while in the shower.
| c64d81744074dfa wrote:
| Just realized that there's almost no mention in the comments so
| far about the similarity to hypnosis: access to previously
| inaccessible memories, hallucinations, high suggestibility...
|
| Not sure how much I believe about hypnosis, but maybe it's
| related. Could it be just helping people get into this N1 state
| while awake?
| thejackgoode wrote:
| Sometimes I get into what feels like similar state during
| meditation, particularly when tired. It definitely produces
| "different" thoughts, but I never thought of it this way.
| Interesting.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| I use the hypnogagic state as part of my meditation routine.
|
| I always shower before bed and that's when I tend to start
| getting sleepy. So I started meditating during that time.
|
| I can get to the phase of seeing shifting colors and patterns
| very easily in this setup. I've been able to get there outside
| the hypnogagic state but only with some difficulty and not
| consistently.
| claylimo wrote:
| Meditation is about being alert and present. Hypnagogia in my
| experience is a hindrance that impedes meditation progress
| since it dulls the senses and experience.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Meditation is a wide range of practice.
|
| If your goal is to be aware of yourself in the immediate, to
| feel things directly, then the hypnogagic state can work
| well. Obviously your mileage may vary.
| pvarangot wrote:
| Mindful meditation, a technique very popular among big tech
| HR departments that want alert and present employees, is
| about being alert and present. There's many techniques and
| first hand stories of people achieving states more similar to
| like the one in the article with more let's say "older" or
| simpler and more basic meditation techniques that don't
| require too much mental gymnastics. Bodhidharma staring at a
| wall comes to mind.
| flint wrote:
| We did that in high school physics. Physics was last period and
| before swim practice. We'd put a pencil in our hands and dangle
| our hand off the edge of the desk. When you dropped your pencil
| it'd wake you up. Hopefully it'd wake you up so the team wouldn't
| skeak off an leave you sleeping in the physics lab.
| ohiovr wrote:
| "As legend goes, Edison would sit in a chair when he got sleepy,
| holding a ball bearing in his left hand. Soon, he would enter the
| "hypnagogic state," a stage between wakefulness and sleep where
| many people claim to have visual and auditory hallucinations."
|
| https://cityftmyers.com/1871/Standing-Thomas-Edison#:~:text=....
|
| This technique should work if you can fall asleep without
| consciously thinking about what is in your hand. I have taken
| naps at 3pm now and then when I'm exhausted from studying a
| problem and fall asleep. Recently in a nap dream I come to a part
| that seemed to beg my belief even while dreaming. And I was
| somehow able to arise out of my dream state with conscious
| effort. I should note that I have been quite productive with the
| problem I was considering. I can't remember what the problem was.
| I just saw the article and thought it would be fun to share.
|
| Edison's technique should be automatic. Maybe something like a
| soft object that when a few moments after it is released makes a
| squeak sound. Might make a fun toy for inventors looking to
| maximize on this dream boost effect.
| ohiovr wrote:
| I just had this happen to me tonight. I was dreaming and then I
| started dreaming about mom's house. The sliding door was open
| and there was hurricane like wind outside. I cried out mom! I
| could feel the wind. It felt so real! I woke up and heard the
| city's warning siren say severe thunderstorm warning.
| Apparently it was very windy outside last night as my neighbors
| remarked today.
| mkaic wrote:
| >Maybe something like a soft object that when a few moments
| after it is released makes a squeak sound.
|
| Could use some kind of heat or capacitive touch sensor to
| detect when it's no longer in contact with your hand. Or I
| guess the KISS version of that would just be to use some sort
| of physical switch to detect when the object hits the floor. I
| could totally see there being a market for something like this!
| ohiovr wrote:
| Make it and give me one. I'm working on a spelling bee.
| mabcat wrote:
| I spent a bit of time trying to do it with flex sensors.
| Strap one to your hand, make a fist, take your nap, detect
| when muscle tone is lost and it unbends. I ran out of
| interest before I got it to work but I still think it's
| viable. Probably smart to build the flex sensor into a glove
| for ease of use, and you could put the microcontroller on
| there too.
|
| https://core-electronics.com.au/flex-sensor-2-2.html
| bogwog wrote:
| You could also buy one of those two-piece door sensors that
| sound an alarm when you separate them. Tie one to your hand
| (or glue it onto a special sleeping glove), and hold the
| other piece.
|
| Only potential problem is that you might get a heart attack
| considering how loud those things can be.
| mmastrac wrote:
| I think these are just hall effect sensors and you can
| find Arduino compatible ones
| caddemon wrote:
| There was some work making a version of Edison's technique that
| actually uses sleep stage data to decide when to trigger the
| wake up signal: https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/sleep-
| creativity/overview...
|
| One of my friends volunteered for an experiment with this a few
| years back and said it was pretty trippy. Not sure how the
| project has progressed since then though.
| avereveard wrote:
| > Recently in a nap dream I come to a part that seemed to beg
| my belief even while dreaming. And I was somehow able to arise
| out of my dream state with conscious effort.
|
| I've had a similar experience, where discrepancies in dream
| raised consciousness and morphed into lucid dreaming. In time
| I've become better at working out dreams from reality, and
| decided reversed to trigger it voluntarily. To bad with age I
| almost stopped dreaming, it was great.
|
| It might be extremely personal, but my best trigger was
| imagining walking down an infinite stair above a cloudy sky
| right before sleeping - imagination transitioning into dreaming
| as it went. I would regularly misstep and fall - either the
| body would twitch waking me up, or I'd be falling in the empty
| below, the impossibility of the situation awakening
| consciousness in the dream. Had to be timed right tho - too
| early and would have just been just me imagining things. The
| feeling of lucid dreaming is distinct enough to tell which is
| which tho, so I could just attempt it over and over until it
| worked or I'd miss the window and just feel asleep.
| c0nducktr wrote:
| > It might be extremely personal, but my best trigger was
| imagining walking down an infinite stair above a cloudy sky
| right before sleeping - imagination transitioning into
| dreaming as it went.
|
| I remember doing almost this exact thing as a child! Every
| night I'd fall asleep thinking of descending an infinite
| escalator, which existed in an empty space. Sometimes I was
| with other people, sometimes alone, but I found that by
| keeping the escalator in focus, I was able to switch into
| what now I realize was a lucid dream, right as I was falling
| asleep.
| kingcharles wrote:
| The hypnagogic state sucks. I used to often wake from
| nightmares during the night and see hundreds of spiders
| swarming all over my bedroom. I would stand on my bed and try
| to figure out how to get to the door. I injured myself a couple
| of times doing Bruce Lee shit trying to jump across furniture
| without touching the spiders. I would switch the light on and
| of course there are no spiders there, but my brain is so
| convinced by the hallucination that it has to try and reconcile
| the insanity and then has me looking under the bed where the
| spiders have surely hidden as soon as the light went on.
|
| Then 30 seconds later my brain goes "lolol, just fucking with
| you, bro" and I feel really stupid.
| ohiovr wrote:
| I've had nightmares. Isn't it interesting how it is possible
| 'boot' into a speakative state during a dream or nightmare?
| Somehow we can escape those..
| mkaic wrote:
| this recently happened to me for the first time ever and it
| was surreal and terrifying, except in my situation is was
| bedbugs, not spiders. Never had it happen before until
| randomly a few weeks ago when i was feeling stressed about
| moving into a new apartment in a new city far away. Woke up
| sweating and was hallucinating that my room was infested. It
| was horrifying.
| zagrebian wrote:
| > In N1, you can imagine shapes, colors or even bits of dreams in
| front of your closed eyes
|
| It happened to me on several occasions that I would wake up after
| 10 minutes of early sleep, and I would see things that aren't
| there, like photographs projected on the blank walls of my
| bedroom. I was definitely awake, in the dark, and I would see
| these images for a minute or so before they faded away.
| voidhorse wrote:
| Yes, tis true, it's a state called hypnogogia, everyone
| experiences it. In my personal experience, it's most easy to dive
| into a hypnogogic state if you simply attempt to go to bed, i.e.
| don't read before bed, spend time on the phone etc. just lie down
| and let your brain meander.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| > _One participant said "At one point, I saw a horse in the
| hospital._
|
| And that study participant's name? John Mulaney.
| tempestn wrote:
| This does sound very cool, although I wouldn't be shocked to read
| at some point in the future that it couldn't be replicated.
| josefrichter wrote:
| Wow. I didn't know this, but I was actually able to observe this
| state on myself. When going to sleep, my mind is wandering. But
| at one point it drifts from real world thoughts to completely
| abstract concepts and wild imagination that sometimes makes no
| sense. It's almost like a hallucination. What's most interesting
| is that sometimes I am able to notice the transition to this
| state and consciously observe it. Usually it makes me happy
| because I know I'm about to fall asleep within the next few
| seconds (which I often have problem with, writing this comment at
| 1:26am again..). I am also able to consciously observe the images
| being generated. It's very weird, because it feels like one brain
| looking into someone else's brain to the extent that is
| impossible by any technology or in any other way. Sometimes I'm
| able to consciously wake up from this state, because I have weird
| "sleep phobias". Sometimes I am fascinated by the idea generated
| at that stage. But unless I write them down or really get up,
| they are typically lost if I fall asleep within next 5 minutes -
| maybe I'd have a Nobel prize already, if only I kept a pen and
| paper ready next to my bed. Or apartment full of crappy kitch
| paintings..
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| Apparently people with untreated narcolepsy (who naturally go
| in-and-out of that zone automatically on a nightly basis) tend
| to have "higher creative potential" than people without
| narcolepsy[0].
|
| [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31143939/
| bemmu wrote:
| The nonsense thoughts sound very familiar. It takes me forever
| to fall asleep, so I have plenty of time to observe it
| happening. I go from actively worrying about/solving stuff, to
| slight relaxation with my inner voice being a bit less active,
| to an even more "nonverbal thinking", then finally I'll have
| some thoughts that seem to make sense at first, but a few
| seconds later I realize were actually nonsense, which makes me
| happy as I know sleep almost surely follows from there within 5
| minutes.
|
| One thing I didn't see mentioned here is that sometimes it
| seems like some of the thoughts didn't originate from me, like
| someone else is present or said it. I assume when I'm deeper
| into sleep, the same process is responsible for creating all
| the other characters besides myself in my dreams.
| distantaidenn wrote:
| Wow, I have this exact same experience before falling asleep.
| It feels like a direct shift in the thought processes, and as
| you described it, it feels as though you have become a passive
| observer of your own thoughts. The images are sometimes so
| absurd and creative that I almost laugh to myself. But I also,
| don't KNOW if the images are creative or absurd, but just my
| brain believing it so -- is there even a difference? If anyone
| has ever had a "genius" idea while high, written it down, and
| read it the next day, you know what I mean...
|
| Just as you mentioned, this switch lets me know, I'm gonna be
| asleep in the next few seconds. I also often listen to
| audiobooks or ASMR while lying down to sleep, and just as this
| state kicks in, I know its time to flick out my earbuds just
| before I lose consciousness. However, sometimes I'm even able
| to ride this wave right into sleep -- as in, from weird
| observer state right into the dream world. I was actually
| thinking about this a few days ago, and did some very quick
| searching, but couldn't find anything -- I wonder if we are
| observing the switching of our own brainwaves from alpha to
| theta?
|
| I'd like to ask other people that experience this: do you also
| have high rates of sleep paralysis? I get it almost nightly. My
| dreams are also very vivid, and I remember about 80% of them.
| Also, if I wake up during a dream, upon falling back asleep,
| I'm able to "continue" them. Maybe I'll try this Dali method a
| bit, who knows!
| jniedrauer wrote:
| >do you also have high rates of sleep paralysis?
|
| Yes, often toward the end of this near-dreaming state, just
| before entering deeper sleep. I experience a sensation like
| entering a free fall and lose the ability to move. It takes
| quite a lot of energy to climb back out of it and regain the
| ability to move.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| How would you describe your sleep hygiene? Do you sleep the
| same amount every night? Do you fall asleep at the same
| time? How much sleep do you get? Are you generally very
| tired when you lay down to sleep?
|
| Just curious as someone who has never had any of these N1
| experiences, what might I be missing...
| jniedrauer wrote:
| I used to have fairly poor sleep hygiene but am now
| pretty good about it. I have had this experience in both
| states. I had night terrors as a child which eventually
| gave way to curiosity, and I practiced staying self aware
| while falling asleep. A common trick you can use is to
| learn to recognize the signs that you are sleeping, for
| example by checking your phone. Digital screens will have
| garbled symbols in a dream. You also might notice altered
| laws of physics, or suddenly remember that you already
| went to bed and the dream can't be real. After the first
| few times, your brain learns how to do it and it happens
| more and more without effort. Then you can stay self
| aware while falling asleep, and can start to explore the
| transition states that you otherwise couldn't see.
| deepakarora3 wrote:
| A similar experience occurs with me almost always when jet
| lagged. After fighting off sleep for much of the day when I
| finally fall asleep during the later part of the day, it
| starts off exactly like described - a really dreamy state.
| Then after I have slept a couple of hours, I enter a state
| where I am sleeping and also awake at the same time and
| wanting to wake up but in a state of sleep paralysis where
| it is a herculean effort to try and shake off sleep and
| wake up. More often than not, even though I know I am in
| this state, still a panic sets in me that I am not able to
| shake off sleep and I wake up after quite some effort. And
| yes, I have had dreams where I have been able to solve some
| problems at work even without thinking about them during
| the day. Its totally fascinating!
| digitallyfree wrote:
| Lucid dreamer here. I often feel the "switch" the same way
| you do, and I ride through it as the images transistion into
| the "dream world". Through this I can directly enter into a
| lucid dream if I choose to keep my conscious mind slightly
| active, else it becomes a passive dream (though sometimes I
| do discover that I'm dreaming and it then becomes lucid once
| more). I have to be cautious here though, as if I start
| thinking too hard I snap out of it and return to
| consciousness.
|
| During this time sleep paralysis is almost always in effect.
| Basically I can listen and think, but there is a gate on my
| muscles - small motions like twitching my fingers won't work,
| strong motions cut through (and immediately stops the
| paralysis). To me it generally happens when my mind is about
| to switch off and I am on the verge of falling asleep.
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| > Also, if I wake up during a dream, upon falling back
| asleep, I'm able to "continue" them.
|
| I have this too, i asked around and people just found it
| weird.
|
| Most also don't remember their dream, but i can remember the
| last one for about 10 minutes before it fogs away.
|
| If i want to continue it. I need to remember the last thing
| that happened and the first moments i can control what's
| going to happen until something else takes over. It's the
| only reason I would go back to sleep again, if the dream was
| really "nice".
|
| I also think I can control a dream and I mostly realize that
| I'm dreaming. Then I think about: "hey, this is really weird
| what's happening here, I'll wake up now. Since this is just a
| dream. It can't be real."
|
| There's also one time I totally didn't realize it at all. And
| something embarrassing happened. But I drank alcohol the
| night before and it must have been related to that.
|
| Sometimes people say they can have conversations with me,
| while I definitely was sleeping. You could ask any question
| than and I'd answer ( even the kind that you shouldn't ask)
|
| ( Didn't read the article yet)
| ddoubleU wrote:
| What I can definitely remember is that before I started being
| conscious about this transition I started waking up with
| "mental" shock, like the absolute last part part of sleep
| were cut of prematurely and you are shunted straight into
| consciousness, it wasn't physical shock, I might have
| twitched a bit but it's kind of hard to be sure about it.
|
| Then these shocks also started happening before sleep, before
| entering or inside this N1 state, basically I would "hard on"
| consciously notice I am drifting which kind of catapulted me
| back into full consciousness. Though, it wasn't hard to start
| slipping back into sleep unless nervous for next day stuff.
|
| I am not a lucid dreamer, I think I experienced that once but
| it was very ...murky, like a typical dream afterwards. Same
| for sleep paralysis, happened few times but it's rare and as
| far as I remember, it wasn't fear inducing.
|
| Also, needs to be noted that my "sleep organization" is
| pretty fucked up and I often end up sleeping less hours then
| I would normally need, for days, refilling the deficit thru
| weekends.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| I'm kinda jealous. I couldn't be more different.
|
| I can't remember the last time I had a dream. Months ago
| probably.
|
| Random question but - do you consume any caffeine?
| rapnie wrote:
| I consume _lotsa_ caffeine and still have weird, vivid
| dreams that I remember in the morning. I 'd say in my case
| the caffeine doesn't inhibit any dream capability. I also
| have small fragments of lucid dreaming, but usually wake up
| quickly then (because of the excitement mostly).
| tunap wrote:
| Ditto on "lotsa". To the point caffeine no longer amps me
| up but rather just keeps the migraines at bay. Pondering
| my addiction many years in the past, I decided to try an
| experiment where I drank a few sips of coffee before
| going to sleep. It did, and still does, increase my
| lucidity & retention during/after sleep cycles. I have
| vivid dreams with self awareness pretty much most nights,
| and a experience a surprisingly large amount of content
| during power naps(15-45 minutes). This is still a drop in
| the bucket compared to my dreams when I was a teen &
| 20-something, however. I haven't been able to 'fly away'
| or soar like I did when younger, nowadays I merely wake-
| up when things start down a dark path(*Covid induced
| nightmares, were a rare exception; the 1st night terrors
| I've had in decades).
|
| edit:grammar
| INTPenis wrote:
| I don't drink caffeine and I rarely dream, just to chime
| in. When I dream it's almost always because something is
| disturbing my sleep. An upset stomach is the most common
| cause of dreams to me.
|
| Or quitting cannabis, in which case I have vivid and wild
| dreams for a couple weeks and then back to normal.
| camillomiller wrote:
| If you don't mind mild side effects and you do want dreams,
| there's always the Calea herb:
| https://www.healthline.com/health/calea-zacatechichi
| distantaidenn wrote:
| Hypersensitive to caffeine, so no coffee or pop if I don't
| mind the incoming insomnia. I may have a cup of weak earl
| grey every couple of days.
| Vedor wrote:
| I, too, rarely have (or remember) dreams - once per month,
| maybe. But lack of dreams is not a problem for me. What I
| find annoying (and I'm really curious if you have similar
| experience) that I don't have feeling of passed time.
|
| My sleep is like blink of an eye. It's night, I close my
| eyes, then I open them, and there is morning already. I's
| always the same, no matter how long I have slept, whether I
| am well rested or tired.
|
| Since the time feels so compressed during my sleep, I can't
| help but feel that sleep is, kinda, a waste of time.
|
| Usually I have 2-3 coffees per week. I drink a lot of
| various types of tea daily, though.
| jhot wrote:
| I'm with you, I fall asleep to blackness and it's
| instantly morning. When my kids were babies and we were
| getting up a lot in the night to feed and change diapers
| I actually had an uptick in awareness of my dreams, but
| otherwise it is extremely rare for me to be conscious of
| anything during the night.
| smusamashah wrote:
| You dont even have slight hallucinations while falling to
| sleep, just like in the linked article? My first sign is
| I usually start hearing voices which I almost always know
| are not real.
| Vedor wrote:
| I think I had them when I was kid, but not anymore.
|
| And just to be clear, I didn't mean that I fall asleep as
| soon I close my eyes. It's just that there is no
| "transition" between being conscious and sleeping. And
| then, suddenly, I'm awake.
|
| I have that idea that my mind suppresses the memories of
| dreaming and falling asleep, because when I was a kid I
| had two recurring nightmares that I dreamed of almost
| every night. Still, never did proper research on this
| topic.
|
| edit: typo
| smusamashah wrote:
| So if you try to stay awake like Dali you will only skip
| time intervals without seeing anything? That's
| interesting. If I am too sleepy but still awake I even
| start hearing sounds and start seeing vivid images in my
| head with open eyes.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| Hmm.. I don't really have this problem. When I wake up, I
| definitely feel like time has passed, but I wonder if
| it's for different reasons than you're expecting.
|
| For me, I usually will wake up once in the night, and
| fall back to sleep quickly. This adds to a sense of time.
| Also, waking up in the morning it's distinctly more cold,
| I feel distinctly more groggy, etc. I definitely get a
| sense that time has passed...
|
| But if you're asking if I am ever aware that I'm sleeping
| and conscious of the minutes passing by? No, never. I
| fall asleep, time passes, I wake up (but, unlike you, I
| do feel like time passed...)
| philmcc wrote:
| I've helped a half dozen people with this. One trick is to
| just keep a notepad by your bed and first, first, first
| thing try to write down what you remember from your dreams.
|
| My suspicion is eventually the brain says "oh you care
| about this? Okay cool I'll hold on to them for longer."
|
| Give it a couple of weeks you might be surprised.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| Thanks for the tip, I'll give this a try.
| e9 wrote:
| I'm the same way. I pretty much never have dreams unless I
| take some supplement like melatonin or valerian and even
| then it's hit or miss. While I'm awake I also can't picture
| things clearly(without any meaningful details) in my mind.
| Maybe that's related.
| in3d wrote:
| You likely have dreams, just don't remember them.
| nayaketo wrote:
| Something like this happens to me too.
|
| > The images are sometimes so absurd and creative that I
| almost laugh to myself.
|
| For me the images and thoughts are absurd but in a terrifying
| way. I usually wake up when this happens. I analyze the
| thoughts and images after waking up and they make absolutely
| no sense, yet in my sleep they make me very very
| afraid/upset, disturbing enough to make me get up terrified.
| I have anxiety disorder, and that's most certainly causing me
| to feel this way.
|
| I also get voices speaking random gibberish that gets
| progressively louder which forces me to get up from my sleep.
| After getting up I'm usually like 'wtf was that' and go back
| to sleep.
| wruza wrote:
| _It feels like a direct shift in the thought processes, and
| as you described it, it feels as though you have become a
| passive observer of your own thoughts_
|
| Because it is, according to my doc. You're looking directly
| at your inner thinking machinery, and moreso you can interact
| with it by simply asking yourself a question just before this
| state kicks in.
|
| I have a little success story of using it. Previously I've
| had a fear of being late, with a heavy protective behavior,
| almost OCD-like. Doc wanted me to answer _when and how_ did I
| get the idea that being late is so terrible. I tried hard to
| recall, but only simple reinforcement events came up to mind.
| Then he said that I should either fall asleep in that session
| (failed it), or repeat the question before I go to sleep at
| home. Just in few seconds my subconscious presented me the
| correct event from my childhood in full detail. One session
| later I was free of that fear, and now can easily plan 4-5
| meetings in a row in different parts of the city, an
| unimaginable thing for me before.
| ra88it wrote:
| I have this also. So many things to say I don't know where to
| begin. I feel like there is a distinct difference between the
| experiences of seeing the images when you are falling asleep
| vs seeing the images when you have recently come out of
| sleep. And then there is a third state where you have
| recently come out of sleep but you aren't done sleeping yet
| so you are also falling back to sleep. This last one often
| allows me to start having a lucid dream.
|
| 1) Weird things like this happen to me most often in the
| early morning hours when I'm still drowsy but I've woken up
| for a few minutes.
|
| 2) It is sometimes accompanied by a "whooshing" sensation
| that used to frighten me and usually caused me to "back out"
| into normal consciousness. Eventually I learned how to relax
| and let it unfold without panicking. Quite often I have the
| sensation of rolling out of my body, off the bed and onto the
| floor.
|
| 3) I am paralyzed when it happens, in the sense that if I
| move my hand, the hand that moves is a dream hand. My real
| hand of course doesn't move. It doesn't feel like paralysis
| because I can "move" in my dream. But I am consciously aware
| that my real body is lying still in bed.
|
| 4) I have to be very careful not to wake myself especially at
| the beginning (edit: and being careful is paradoxical because
| if I am too careful then that will wake me too, sort of like
| the paradox of needing to be both loose and tight in sports).
| I am also aware that if my wife coughs or makes some kind of
| noise, I might wake up. I have discovered an odd remedy for
| this however: if I make "dream noise" - for instance, if I
| shuffle my feet loudly in the dream - I am less likely to be
| woken by real noise from the real world.
| jordanbeiber wrote:
| My problem is that when I start observing my "N1", as I do when
| I'm in a cycle of low/bad sleep, I get worried I won't reach
| deep recovery sleep. This really have become a bad pattern for
| me that is hard to break. I can spend a full night in and out
| of N1 sleep and be completely wasted the following day.
|
| I seem to go through these cycles with 3-4 weeks of great sleep
| and roughly 2 weeks of getting stuck in N1, observing.
|
| Really interesting things show up while in this state, but it's
| thoroughly incompatible with three young children...
| godelski wrote:
| This kind happens to me too, except frequently when I'm
| transitioning I see a really bright like that comes from
| "above" (hard to describe which direction) and it wakes me back
| up because it's intensity. Though no one I talk to seems to
| know what I'm talking about. But the vividness before becoming
| unconscious (or the white light) is often the most creative
| part of my day. Sometimes I can take control but often this
| breaks the effect.
|
| Though the best way I learned to remember dreams and having
| some control is not when falling asleep but waking up. Rather
| set an alarm one or two REM cycles before you want to get up
| (cycle is 90 minutes) and then just go back to bed. It's far
| more vivid than when trying to go to sleep and easier to take
| some control (though I've only become lucid twice). At minimum
| you'll remember your dream.
| toshk wrote:
| Some buddhist sleep meditations are often called clear light
| meditations.
|
| For them btw is not the trick to remember the thoughts but to
| stay aware when transitioning to the sleep phase, this is one
| of the moments clear conciousness can be experienced
| according to certain teachings.
| op00to wrote:
| Hope you fell asleep!
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Something that happened a few times to me during this
| transitional state is "hearing" (more like hallucinating) music
| that I was singing in my mind while still awake. Except much
| clearer and vivid than ever before. I think that since the
| ordinary hearing function was just shutting itself off, the
| conscious brain could experience only its memory of the song
| and did it intensely so.
|
| It lasted a couple of seconds only, while I was extremely
| tired, but it was an amazing experience.
|
| It's such a fascinating topic and yet it's remarkable how
| little we still know about sleep, consciousness, dreams, etc.
| bemmu wrote:
| I've had this a few times. It's like listening to a good
| album on your headphones, except you are in control of the
| music. Being able to do that was a wonderful experience,
| especially since I've never actually played an instrument.
| karmakaze wrote:
| A similar thing happened to me after some sleep deprivation
| in a noisy bar. I was moving to the music, and someone said
| the music had stopped. I listened while still moving to it,
| saying no it hasn't. They repeated that it had. I listened
| again and indeed there was no music in the air, only my mind.
| Cognition and perception is based on hallucination around
| stimuli--sometimes we fill in more than the gaps.
| [deleted]
| sildur wrote:
| If you try to sleep with your eyes partially closed, you'll
| start to hallucinate the things in front of you. Things
| become shapes, and then completely different things. It's
| pretty interesting.
| tgb wrote:
| I get this too. While awake, the sounds I hear on my own mind
| are just basically the signs I could make with my own voice.
| I can imagine a song by imagining humming or singing it, but
| I cannot recall what the actual recording sounds like. Yet
| there's that switch that flips as I go to sleep that I notice
| occasionally where I can hear crystal clear music. It's
| beautiful and I can't recognize the music.
|
| I also get this, much more rarely, with images. While awake,
| I can't truly picture what I imagine, it's like I just have a
| notion of what is there, like motion and shape, without
| really seeing it, or at best a momentary flash of a picture.
| But when drifting to sleep there is a moment where the images
| become real, with color and texture and detail far beyond
| what I can imagine while awake. It's shocking and wakes we up
| when I notice it happening.
|
| What is this switch? How can my brain have such discretely
| distinct modes of operation? Falling asleep itself seems so
| much more of a continuum.
| Shared404 wrote:
| > When going to sleep, my mind is wandering. But at one point
| it drifts from real world thoughts to completely abstract
| concepts and wild imagination that sometimes makes no sense.
| It's almost like a hallucination.
|
| I can trigger this in myself consistently. Usually, it's either
| by pushing myself to stay awake for too long on too little
| sleep or waking up after a full days work and only sleeping a
| few (2-4) hours.
|
| I try not to, I find it terrifying tbh.
| bglusman wrote:
| Richard Feynman wrote about something similar in "Surely you're
| joking Mr. Feynman!" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surely_Yo
| u%27re_Joking,_Mr._...!)
|
| This appears to be most of the relevant except:
| http://entersection.com/posts/897-richard-p-feynman-on-watch...
| VeninVidiaVicii wrote:
| When I'm falling asleep, I worry about things from the day --
| then my mind starts mixing everything up at some point.
|
| Lying in bed, I vividly remember studying for a test on human
| anatomy, going over everything in my head. After five or so
| minutes, I felt pretty confident with my knowledge of human
| anatomy and I started panicking about my lack of knowledge of
| car anatomy (which doesn't exist).
|
| Strange enough, I can always tell my thoughts are jumbled up
| but I can't fix them.
|
| I hadn't considered it was due to the shift into sleep -- I
| always thought I was just too tired to keep making sense.
| burntoutfire wrote:
| > Sometimes I am fascinated by the idea generated at that
| stage.
|
| Same here. In periods of my life when I'm more into artistic
| creation (or even consumption), often quite vivid and elaborate
| images come to my head in the 10-15 minutes before going to
| sleep. That, or really rich and elaborate (original) music.
| Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to put them into
| paintings or compositions, or even to make a quick note of them
| so that I could remember them in the morning. But still, it's
| quite fun.
| BlameKaneda wrote:
| I used to be able to do this thing to where if I kept perfectly
| still, I'd "stare" (with eyes closed) into the nothingness---by
| that I mean I'd be staring into the backs of my eyelids---and
| there'd be a point in which my mind would start to create
| images. For instance, the shape would take the form of a fish,
| and then I'd see it become a radio, etc.
|
| If I held on and tried this for as long as possible, I'd feel
| my body drift off to sleep. But it was hard, because there'd be
| something in me that would jerk and stop the imagery (like a
| hypnic jerk, just nowhere near as uncomfortable).
|
| There was a bizarre situation where one evening I felt my body
| convulse (or perhaps I imagined it) and I'd actually fallen
| asleep. However, I was so freaked out by it that I shook my
| body awake, in my dream, and I woke up. I must've been out for
| less than a minute or so.
|
| It's been 7-8 months since I was last able to stare into the
| nothingness and let sleep overtake me. Maybe it's my caffeine
| intake or something else, but I would like to experience it
| again.
|
| _Edit:_ I 'm pretty sure they were hypnagogic hallucinations.
| https://www.sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/hypnagogic-h...
| nabakin wrote:
| > I used to be able to do this thing to where if I kept
| perfectly still, I'd "stare" (with eyes closed) into the
| nothingness---by that I mean I'd be staring into the backs of
| my eyelids---and there'd be a point in which my mind would
| start to create images. For instance, the shape would take
| the form of a fish, and then I'd see it become a radio, etc.
|
| > If I held on and tried this for as long as possible, I'd
| feel my body drift off to sleep. But it was hard, because
| there'd be something in me that would jerk and stop the
| imagery (like a hypnic jerk, just nowhere near as
| uncomfortable).
|
| I do the same thing, though the more mental effort put into
| creating the images makes it take longer before I'm able to
| fall asleep. There's a sweet spot of putting the smallest
| mental effort to go to sleep quickly.
|
| I usually use it as a crutch when I can't just let my mind
| drift.
| bloqs wrote:
| This definitely relates to the exchange of signals between
| hemispheres
| jwdunne wrote:
| I get this too! And they are hallucinations - hypnogogic
| hallucinations. It starts out for me in thought but then
| blossoms into something that feels very real.
|
| Apparently it's a normal phenomenon, I've noticed it's more
| pronounced in those who struggle to get off to sleep.
|
| Usually, when I try to explain it, it comes out as nonsense
| that makes complete sense to me. But once I'm awake, the sense
| is lost and it makes zero sense.
|
| But it's not always nonsense. Once I heard the most beautiful
| orchestra. The composition, the performance, it was truly
| beautiful. I can't remember anything about it other than it was
| the most beautiful piece of music I've ever heard.
|
| Coming in at a close second was an incredible guitar solo. It
| was a deep, emotional ballad expressed entirely on the fret
| board of an electric guitar. Again, truly beautiful. I look but
| I can never find anything that matches it. The closest I've
| come are some live performances of Buckethead.
|
| It's sad that I haven't the ability to reproduce these
| experiences.
|
| For the nonsense stuff, I've heard voices talking amongst
| themselves next to my bed. Sounds like they're speaking English
| but what they say makes zero sense. Like grammatically correct
| sentences that mean nothing.
|
| I've also watched pigs doing cartwheels while on a guided tour
| of a suburban neighbourhood.
|
| I've never had the self-control to break it and note things
| down (by that point, I usually just want the sleep) but I have
| tried to apply ideas from behaviourism. And funnily enough it
| seemed to help.
|
| On nights that are a particular struggle, I'll let my mind
| wander and inject the odd bizarre, abstract thought, audio or
| visual in my minds eye. What I've noticed is that I seem to
| "catch the drift" and it triggers the whole hypnogogia thing
| that leads to sleep.
|
| Some nights it doesn't work but on those nights I'm far too
| tightly wound.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| IIRC this is the "hypnopompic" state and yeah, it's weird and
| cool. Personally I have more memories at the other end
| ("hypnogogic"?) on the transition to waking up.
| 123pie123 wrote:
| Me too,
|
| I used to be able do this in the morning for what felt like
| hours in a extremely vivid dream like state
|
| It's how I got into self-hypnosis to help with my exams
| v64 wrote:
| Thank you for posting this! I experience almost the same
| feeling of my thought processes abruptly changing in form as
| I'm falling asleep. The few people I've talked to about this
| couldn't relate so I thought it was something specific to
| myself.
| bentcorner wrote:
| I recognize this exact moment, because it occurs precisely
| prior to when I begin snoring, and my wife will sometimes nudge
| me awake. The best I can describe it in concrete terms is that
| the world stretches before me and my mind bounces around for a
| moment.
| waltbosz wrote:
| I've always had insomnia, and I often observe myself entering
| the N1 state of sleep. Like you, it makes me happy because it's
| how I know I'll soon be asleep. immediately.
| IWantToRelocate wrote:
| You just described exactly what happens to me and that "sleep
| phobia", I read somewhere, is linked usually to people with
| anxiety/panic attack issues. Not sure if that's your case but
| 100% accurate in my case.
| josefrichter wrote:
| Yes, same here, unfortunately
| IWantToRelocate wrote:
| Actually I don't feel it anymore since I started to
| practice deep breath before I close my eyes. It improved my
| sleep a lot.
| t8e56vd4ih wrote:
| the state you describe i only, but then very clearly,
| experience when falling asleep while being stoned.
| pvarangot wrote:
| Do you also have the visualizations of interlinked concepts?
| I find weed makes me have "the thoughts" and they are very
| present and come fast, but being absolutely sober sometimes
| those thoughts are there but not moving as fast and they it's
| more likely they also come with visualizations of the thought
| process.
| sedivy94 wrote:
| I'm not sure if everyone is like this but, in my case,
| cannabis and psychedelic use has really ramped up that type
| of mental imagery. I see it without being able to describe
| how it looks, which is odd. The components usually comprise
| of blocks of logical arguments and the intersection of
| event spaces.
|
| Another observation: dualistic thinking is a token side-
| effect of psychedelic use, but I'd go so far as to say I've
| also decoupled cause and effect in many of the abstract
| phenomena I observe. Whatever I'm observing or
| contemplating appears to be a condition or state with no
| time domain, rather than an operation where A causes B in
| that order.
| josefrichter wrote:
| Interesting. I heard very similar description of similar
| state from people using LSD. I never tried LSD, so would be
| curious whether that indeed triggers the same state. I
| personally never felt any effect of weed, so I'm not really
| inclined to try "harder".
| ddoubleU wrote:
| I've lately noticed this too but, my "N1" mostly looks more
| like... I am generating sounds - melodies, songs, talking
| people and it feels like I am indeed listening to it, not like
| the dreamy feeling that there just is a sound.
|
| Visually it's mixed up with "blank images" in that sense that I
| know there is something happening but I can't grasp it. It's
| like watching very fast recording - you know something is there
| but either it's too fast to catch or you are too slow to grasp
| the meaning (if there even is any).
|
| What's weird is that these background songs actually do make
| sense, well at least in my head (heh) and these are not copies
| or mixes of anything I can remember.
|
| I am mainly a electronic music junkie: DnB, techno, drumstep
| but from time to time I, mainly dictated by my emotions, listen
| to instrumental rock, indie metal and alike (BMTH, I Prevail,
| Royal Blood). But in contrast, all the songs in my head are
| instrumental, often being "lyrics first" which is pretty much
| out of my typical range - I like to fill in the words, feelings
| - some meaning into the beats myself, that is why I listen to
| progressive electro stuff with not much lyrics if any.
|
| I am guy with absolutely basic music theory and zero exposure
| to anything like music composition (okey I sometimes dream
| (like in wish) that I would learn piano or bass).
| hrez wrote:
| >maybe I'd have a Nobel prize already, if only I kept a pen and
| paper ready next to my bed
|
| Far more likely it would be "The banana is great, but the skin
| is greater"[0] :)
|
| 0.
| https://www.google.com/books/edition/Where_China_Meets_India...
| pvarangot wrote:
| Yeah I call it being aware of ones thought process in third
| person. It's not that unusual of an angle of perception, the
| first place I ever saw it "documented" was here:
|
| https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Perceived_exposure_to_inner_...
|
| which leads to a very accurate description of that kind of
| visualizations:
|
| https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/8B_Geometry_-_Perceived_expo...
| zahma wrote:
| I always tried to time this so that I didn't oversleep and
| disrupt my sleep pattern for later when I actually want to sleep
| through the night. I never really noticed a difference in my
| creativity, but maybe I need to try some specific activities
| after waking.
| gnicholas wrote:
| > _The researchers found that the participants who spent at least
| 15 seconds in the N1 stage had an 83% chance of discovering the
| hidden rule, compared with a 30% chance for those who remained
| awake.
|
| "The only difference between the two groups is one minute,"
| Oudiette said. That's "kind of a spectacular result." But if the
| participants drifted into N2 sleep, the effect disappeared._
|
| Why don't they say what the rate was for people in N2 sleep?
| Presumably it's more than the 30% chance, but less than the 83%?
| pubutil wrote:
| This "hold an object while falling asleep" technique sounds very
| similar to a technique I read about maybe 15 years ago at an
| avant-garde sleep away arts camp. It was in the context of lucid
| dreaming and not increasing creativity, though.
|
| That technique didn't involve holding an object, but going to
| sleep with your elbow against the floor/bed and your forearm
| raised. When you started to fall asleep your arm would fall and
| wake you up as it hit the floor/bed.
|
| It also suggesting sleeping with your head facing north, but that
| part seems less scientific to me. Nevertheless, very interesting
| how this came back around.
| dougmwne wrote:
| I suppose it depends on the person but my N1 sleep state contains
| a bunch of compelling nonsense. The moment I wake back up I can
| see it's randomness. I just went to a Dali museum and I can't say
| I'm very surprised he was a fan.
| mandmandam wrote:
| Not to be rude, but I find that interesting and would like to
| guess.. Do you deal with a lot of random data in your
| daily/work life? Are you regularly compelled to deal with
| nonsense?
|
| Conversely, have you any hobbies that you try to progress
| deeply into; like a sport, or music?
| amelius wrote:
| Instead of holding a pencil, can't a smartwatch detect your sleep
| state and wake you up at exactly the right moment?
| o_____________o wrote:
| Maybe from velocity? Just hold your hand up, and when it
| drops...
| robbiep wrote:
| You're not going to get that sort of fidelity from a smart
| watch, you need some brain traces
| amelius wrote:
| I suppose that dropping of the pencil is caused by muscles
| relaxing. I'm surprised a smartwatch can't detect this
| relaxation. But perhaps it's at the wrong location for that.
| michaelcampbell wrote:
| Maybe? Why would you want to when a simple solution exists?
| dinkleberg wrote:
| Is this a legit question? Instead of trying to sleep in an
| awkward position where you can drop something and have it
| wake you up, you could sleep in your bed and be woken up at
| the right time.
| jb1991 wrote:
| It would be neat if instead of holding objects that you drop, the
| Apple Watch could somehow sense this change in your heart rhythm
| or some other factor and wake you up.
| bakul wrote:
| This may have to do with being relaxed, not really thinking about
| the problem at hand and letting your intuition take over. I have
| had experiences where working intensely on a problem, even for
| weeks, didn't solve it but walking away from it and being totally
| relaxed and the solution just popped in my head. It could be in a
| shower, having a meal with friends, in the middle of the night or
| on a walk. You already have the necessary facts and observations
| but somehow you have not made that last intuitive leap. And when
| you do, you instantly know it is right as all of a sudden the
| cloud of possibilities collapses to a single point!
|
| I don't think of it as creativity as much as sparking one's
| intuition. The "sleep technique" test also relies pattern
| recognition, which is sort of a limited creativity. You are
| making the final connection as opposed to opening up a whole new
| world of possibilities.
| loehnsberg wrote:
| I often have really good ideas under the shower that eluded me
| while thinking hard about it at my desk. I really wonder when
| they can reproduce the creative boost of taking a shower in a
| lab experiment.
| Terry_Roll wrote:
| "In N1, you can imagine shapes, colors or even bits of dreams in
| front of your closed eyes, yet still hear stuff in your room"
|
| So is this when DMT
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine starts to
| rise? It would make sense if it does, but melatonin increases
| before you get to N1 so I wonder what DMT is like without the
| melatonin? Maybe that's why there are rumours of some coders
| microdosing LSD in Silicon Valley, to keep up the creativity, but
| I cant help but think DMT might be better.
|
| Now if you take some Lecithin before sleep maybe a gram or two,
| you will dream, but your dreams if you remember them which you
| probably will, will be based around events before you went to
| sleep. This then leads further credence to dreams being an
| indicator to help you process previous days or more historical
| events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecithin This is what I
| think is really helping your brain though, choline is used in the
| connections between neurons and explains baby brain forgetfulness
| with pregnant women.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylcholine
| ohiovr wrote:
| I think DMT changed my friend Dairy Haas in a way that was
| negative.
| [deleted]
| ben_bai wrote:
| So my smartphone hitting me in the head every night when i loose
| grip b.c. of N1, shows how creative i am?
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