[HN Gopher] The CIA and the Media (1977)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The CIA and the Media (1977)
        
       Author : 1cvmask
       Score  : 229 points
       Date   : 2021-12-09 14:27 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.carlbernstein.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.carlbernstein.com)
        
       | dionian wrote:
       | Wasn't the CIA one of the groups pushing the Russia conspiracy
       | angle? I remember John Brennan, former head of the CIA, was on
       | MSNBC for years pushing this theory.
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | Emphasis on _one of_ though, it wasn 't like they just dropped
         | a bomb and left. There were other groups involved.
         | 
         | This
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associat...
         | 
         | And
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_...
         | 
         | are fairly good articles last time I checked.
         | 
         | I kind of subscribe to the "OSINT groups are led on by state
         | intelligence agencies" theory, but that doesn't mean they're
         | wrong.
        
         | yonaguska wrote:
         | Shhh- none of that happened. Move on please. Biden is president
         | now and all that stuff is irrelevant now.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Could you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait
           | comments to Hacker News? We're trying for something different
           | here.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
             | yonaguska wrote:
             | Sorry, not trying to flamebait, just making light of the
             | fact that what was the biggest news story for nearly 3
             | years running, and is now a common cultural reference- has
             | been memory-holed now that facts about the case are coming
             | out. I could have phrased it better.
        
       | CosmicCarl wrote:
       | State-sponsored terrorist organisation, with a reach greater than
       | any other.
        
       | landonxjames wrote:
       | I'm generally less worried about explicit interference like this
       | (which mostly seems to eventually be found out) than I am about
       | the more insidious and ingrained Propaganda Model [0] proposed by
       | Chomsky and Herman in Manufacturing Consent. In their own words:
       | 
       | > Structural factors are those such as ownership and control,
       | dependence on other major funding sources (notably, advertisers),
       | and mutual interests and relationships between the media and
       | those who make the news and have the power to define it and
       | explain what it means. The propaganda model also incorporates
       | other closely related factors such as the ability to complain
       | about the media's treatment of news (that is, produce "flak"), to
       | provide "experts" to confirm the official slant on the news, and
       | to fix the basic principles and ideologies that are taken for
       | granted by media personnel and the elite, but are often resisted
       | by the general population.1 In our view, the same underlying
       | power sources that own the media and fund them as advertisers,
       | that serve as primary definers of the news, and that produce flak
       | and proper-thinking experts, also play a key role in fixing basic
       | principles and the dominant ideologies. We believe that what
       | journalists do, what they see as newsworthy, and what they take
       | for granted as premises of their work are frequently well
       | explained by the incentives, pressures, and constraints
       | incorporated into such a structural analysis. These structural
       | factors that dominate media operations are not allcontrolling and
       | do not always produce simple and homogeneous results.
       | 
       | The media, despite all of its supposed diversity, is really just
       | a dialogue between powerful entities, but it strictly avoids
       | criticizing or even acknowledging the foundational principles of
       | the structures that give it power.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | I don't think you need to choose which of these things to
         | "worry about". Instead, I think it's important to mention that
         | direct CIA interference is just the most obvious part of the
         | system of propaganda and if such interference ceased, the
         | propaganda problem would remain.
         | 
         | And more broadly, the press has traditionally served US
         | interests because it's an institution of US society and shares
         | interests with other US institutions. The idea that there could
         | be a purely unbiased press itself something of an American
         | invention - historically, the press has always had a place in
         | on political spectrum.
         | 
         | That not saying the propagandistic quality of the modern press
         | isn't to worry. It's gone a bit from an argument for our side
         | to a manipulation for our side. How bad that still depends on
         | how bad you think the given sides are. The standard argument
         | during the Cold War was "however bad we might act, the other
         | side is worse, so we need to effective". Now, one can find some
         | equivalent if you to defend the situation.
        
       | boredumb wrote:
       | Mock (yeah) ing (yeah) bird (yeah)
       | 
       | Yeah, yeah
       | 
       | Mockingbird
        
       | galgot wrote:
       | This is old, but still quite interesting, John Stockwell gives
       | some examples: https://youtu.be/NK1tfkESPVY
        
       | NaturalPhallacy wrote:
       | Relevant: https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-
       | propaganda-...
        
       | champagnois wrote:
       | The intelligence agencies exist to advance some view of what our
       | civilization should be.
       | 
       | If you are not an anarchist or some other form of misguided
       | extremist, then you probably agree with the goal or intentions of
       | the state's IC apparratus even if you find a given mission or
       | action of the IC to be strange when looked at and analyzed out of
       | context.
       | 
       | What I mean to say here is that there is a grand strategy at
       | play, but you may, in your lives and in your careers, encounter a
       | single out-of-context action of such agencies and you will be
       | left feeling their actions were odd, but your feelings on the
       | matter are a result of lacking context and that context is,
       | unfortunately, only disclosed on a need-to-know basis.
       | 
       | So, to those not involved in a goven operation, yes, the agencies
       | will seem to be distorting reality all of the time... Use your
       | brain and ask yourself the motive -- there is definitely a
       | context in all scenarios that explains things pretty well and
       | your elected leaders have signed off on that context after
       | hearing the sales pitch of some analyst turned manager in the
       | agency.
       | 
       | TL;DR have faith in the actions of our nation's clandestine
       | services. They are working to our benefit and their lives are on
       | the line.
        
         | danieldevries wrote:
         | What does 'faith' in clandestine services mean? The CIA is so
         | powerful (above the law) and secretive that we just have to
         | trust them? With a undisclosed black budget of $50B? more?
         | 
         | Naive and extremely dangerous imo.
        
           | champagnois wrote:
           | There is a higher power in the form of civillian elected
           | government that manage the framework within which the IC
           | members are allowed to operate.
           | 
           | Information is partitioned away from the public so as to
           | partition it away from the watchful eyes of foreign spies.
           | There is no other way to do it.
           | 
           | Intelligence services are a key element of our national
           | strategic footing and our ability to keep our totalitarian
           | adversaries contained.
           | 
           | If you have a better solution where our IC could be both
           | transparent AND effective, put it forward guy.
        
             | danieldevries wrote:
             | There has probably been little oversight or no oversight of
             | the CIA since the Church committee in 70s. Fumbling the 911
             | attacks, selling war to the public in 2003, decades long
             | direct foreign intervention in 20th century, etc. They are
             | ineffective at best, and downright criminal at worst.
        
               | champagnois wrote:
               | The interventions in the time from 2003-2021 were
               | interesting and seemed to have some effect on changing
               | the cultures of the middle east. It is still too early to
               | tell.
               | 
               | American elected officials are who started the war, the
               | intelligence agencies are just one of their many tools.
               | 
               | The 911 attacks were a foreign attack on our soil. The
               | intelligence agencies helped us track down and ultimately
               | bring justice to the individual most responsible. Hoorah.
        
         | dman wrote:
         | Are you in a position to confirm or deny that you work for an
         | intelligence agency?
        
           | champagnois wrote:
           | Consider me just a well-traveled, well-informed, well-meaning
           | individual of reasonable intelligence who cares about my
           | family and civilization.
           | 
           | You should be worrying about the foreign agents and the
           | incredibly sophisticated plans they are executing on our soil
           | and on social media.
           | 
           | If you care about your family or your civilization, you
           | should be doing your part to help the big picture in what
           | ever way you can. It matters. Help your community members
           | live healthier, more meaningful lives. Help people stay away
           | from social media and focused on making themselves and the
           | world better with micro improvements, day by day.
        
             | atentaten wrote:
             | How are our clandestine agencies covertly or overtly
             | helping us live healthier, meaningful, social-media-free
             | lives?
        
               | champagnois wrote:
               | Who do you think made TOR? or SE Linux? or uncovers plots
               | to import fentanyl to our shores and lace it into simple
               | products to harm our citizens? Or leverages the dark web
               | and social media platforms to monitor and disrupt foreign
               | networks?
               | 
               | Stay off of social media is my suggestion. Social media
               | is basically a weapon.
        
               | 323454 wrote:
               | I agree with the prescription to stay off weaponized
               | social propaganda platforms and focus on your local
               | community, but I don't see how you can ask people to
               | blindly trust the CIA. Too many misdeeds to count.
               | 
               | - Fabricating justification for war (Vietnam, Iraq) -
               | Fabricating evidence of treason by a sitting President
               | (Trump-Russia) - Overthrowing democratically elected
               | governments (e.g. Iran) - Starting civil wars (e.g.
               | Nicaragua) - Assassinating thousands of people, often
               | with collateral killing of innocents - And drugs drugs
               | drugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_d
               | rug_traffi...
               | 
               | Ultimately, do we live in a better world thanks to the
               | CIA? From where I sit, I'd need a lot of convincing to
               | believe that.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | This is still only for the foreign stuff tho, right? For Domestic
       | Propaganda they consult the FBI.
       | 
       | I can certainly see a reporter having no issue with hearing about
       | things the government would like to know before doing a trip
       | someplace, that they want to know might be newsworthy itself. Not
       | disclosing the connection is where the ethical alligators lie.
        
         | imwillofficial wrote:
         | This is the intention, but history has shown this to be false.
        
       | bediger4000 wrote:
       | If we take Bernstein at his word (and there's no reason not to),
       | basically all the US media has secretly cooperated with the CIA.
       | Is there any reason to think this isn't going on right now? I
       | mean, google "ken dilanian cia" for a good time. Then think:
       | Dilanian is still a working journalist.
       | 
       | How is this congruent with a free press? Surely this willingness
       | to cooperate with a spy agency that has done some very bad things
       | over the years spills over to other areas. Am I supposed to
       | believe that all these media cover current politics objectively,
       | if they've enthusiastically cooperated with the CIA in the past?
        
         | gadders wrote:
         | It is going on right now.
         | 
         | "And the answer is obvious: they all serve as mouthpieces for
         | the same propagandists and disinformation agents of the CIA,
         | FBI and other security state agencies. In this capacity, they
         | dutifully write down and vouch for what they are told by those
         | agencies to publish without any investigative scrutiny or
         | confirmation. The most amazing part of it all is that when they
         | try to malign independent journalists for not doing "real
         | reporting" -- real reporting like these corporate outlets do --
         | this is what they mean by real reporting: getting a call from
         | the CIA or FBI and being told what to say. And that is why they
         | so often mislead and deceive the public with blatant
         | disinformation in unison."
         | 
         | https://greenwald.substack.com/p/corporate-news-outlets-agai...
        
           | beebeepka wrote:
           | I just wonder what kind of person downvotes comments such as
           | this one. Because I can't think of a single honest reason to
           | do so.
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | > Am I supposed to believe that all these media cover current
         | politics objectively, if they've enthusiastically cooperated
         | with the CIA in the past?
         | 
         | Yes, that would be the point. Maybe more to the point: if you
         | don't believe, you should believe the CIA has the power to make
         | belief in other people. Moreover if you express non-belief you
         | will be labeled a conspiracy theorist by society and shunned.
        
           | Aperocky wrote:
           | > Am I supposed to believe that all these media cover current
           | politics objectively
           | 
           | LOL I don't need this article to tell me that, it's so
           | blatantly obvious.
        
             | bediger4000 wrote:
             | Yeah, me too, really. The media have a fairly conservative
             | bias, despite all the Republican claims of "liberal bias".
             | I thought this conservative bias came from media trying to
             | keep Republicans from claiming "liberal bias", but now I'm
             | wondering if the CIA has something to do with it.
        
               | colpabar wrote:
               | > The media have a fairly conservative bias
               | 
               | Can you explain what you mean by this, with some
               | examples?
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | Assuming you consider the antiwar stance "liberal," the
               | clearest example of this I've seen is a study of the
               | media stories leading up to the Iraq War. 71% of US
               | sources were pro-war, 26% "neutral," and 3% antiwar. When
               | "both sides" were presented, it was pro-war vs pro
               | preparing more for the war.
               | 
               | https://fair.org/extra/amplifying-officials-squelching-
               | disse...
        
               | specialist wrote:
               | Corporate media has an _establishment_ bias.
               | 
               | On balance, NY Times leans neither conservative nor
               | progressive.
               | 
               | But they are wholly committed defenders of the status
               | quo. And if the status quo is Liberal, Neoliberal, War on
               | Terror, or whatever, then so is NY Times.
               | 
               | Most other medias fall within the Overton Window
               | (boundaries for acceptible discourse) as defined by NY
               | Times. Including explicitly partisan outlets like GOP.tv,
               | OANN, breitbart, etc.
               | 
               | --
               | 
               | Social media, on the other hand, has a troll bias. And
               | given the quirks of human psyche, a bias towards fear and
               | outrage, social media is best exploited by right wing
               | actors.
               | 
               | Not that left wing actors don't try. It's just not as
               | effective, so left wing story lines have terrible
               | traction.
        
         | mountainb wrote:
         | The NOC structure gives the CIA a lot of flexibility
         | internationally. You also have to realize that international
         | anarchy is not just a buzzword, but is reality. When operating
         | in weak states, cooperation with the CIA or taking NOC status
         | is the cheapest source of security that you can get.
         | 
         | The CIA also benefits from workarounds to its statutory
         | limitations established by the CIA Act of 1949. It can do this
         | through intermediaries. It can also grant individuals NOC
         | status who are working internationally for a US corporation. As
         | you might imagine, this provides a ton of flexibility. Most
         | NOCs are not necessarily doing James Bond things, but they are
         | forking over reports and other information to the CIA to help
         | that agency to generate reports.
         | 
         | The 'free press' is actually even worse than what you think,
         | because so much of foreign reporting is just framed directly by
         | the State Department's wires, press releases, and coverage. You
         | don't even need to have Johnny N.Y. Times as an agent: just
         | naturally they are ideologically sympathetic to what the State
         | Department wants everyone to think by education, socialization,
         | and active consumption of State Department propaganda. Johnny
         | NYT then reads lots of State Department material, adds his own
         | literary flair when he goes to report abroad, and then
         | distributes it to the American retail news consumer market.
         | This conveniently evades all the statutory limitations on
         | domestic government propaganda.
         | 
         | Journalists are already automatically suspected of being
         | foreign spies, so they don't really make the best spies. An
         | investor, attorney, or consultant is a much better informant
         | because their information is going to be a lot better and much
         | more relevant for US government purposes. You already have the
         | entire press by default, so why bother putting them on the
         | payroll? They will already do it for free and without being
         | told what they have to do. Even then most know that if they are
         | of particular service to the USG, they can get a sinecure later
         | off of their servility while in the private sector.
        
         | craigc wrote:
         | I'm glad people are finally catching on to this. The CIA has
         | their tentacles in pretty much all aspects of society, and it
         | has been that way for years. They have even admitted this
         | openly:
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/CIA/status/1034866941587087360
         | 
         | > CIA officers work as scientists, support staff, engineers,
         | economists, linguists, mathematicians, secretaries,
         | accountants, inventors, cartographers, architects,
         | psychologists, police officers, editors, graphic designers,
         | auto mechanics, historians, museum curators, & more!
         | 
         | Curiously absent from that list is journalists...
        
           | aerostable_slug wrote:
           | The Clandestine Service has had prohibitions against working
           | under journalistic cover in the past. This is because it's
           | thought that free access by journalists to trouble spots
           | beats the possibility of tainting the profession in the eyes
           | of the world (in other words: press access is a bigger net
           | win).
           | 
           | It has been violated from time to time, but at least it's
           | talked about. To my knowledge, the only absolute bar is
           | anything at all to do with the Peace Corps. It would be a
           | Very Bad Thing if people start to think those nice kids
           | digging wells and handing out rice might be intelligence
           | officers.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | anextio wrote:
             | This logic didn't stop them from running a fake vaccination
             | program in Pakistan to try to find Osama. It directly led
             | to a significant rise in vaccine refusal in the region.
             | 
             | https://www.vox.com/first-person/22256595/vaccine-covid-
             | paki...
             | 
             | So I find it unlikely that they internally enforce
             | prohibitions against meddling with anything at all.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | The CIA employs linguists!?
           | 
           | All of the things you've listed sound pretty reasonable for
           | basically any huge gov agency
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | > The CIA employs linguists!?
             | 
             | Not sure why this is a surprise? They're in the business of
             | understanding information from all over the world, in all
             | languages... and are undoubtedly interested in things like
             | "this accent means this person came from this part of the
             | country" too.
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | Sarcasm. I hoped it was obvious from the second
               | paragraph.
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | Oops, sorry.
               | 
               | I read it as "well this one is surprisingly, but the list
               | is generally reasonable". My bad.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | That tweet isn't an admission of the type you are claiming.
           | (it's a list of things people on the overt CIA payroll do as
           | their overt jobs at CIA, not a list of industries into which
           | CIA employees work surreptitiously or in which the CIA
           | recruits assets.)
        
             | jjtheblunt wrote:
             | i'm glad you said that because i read the parent comment
             | and thought how could that list have been so miscontrued.
        
             | adamiscool8 wrote:
             | Is there any reason to believe the CIA wouldn't have covert
             | assets surreptitiously working in all those same roles,
             | either domestically or abroad?
        
             | craigc wrote:
             | Or maybe it is a mixture of both? Are you sure they don't
             | have covert people in all the very same positions? Does the
             | CIA have its own internal museums, mapmaking companies,
             | architecture firms? What buildings do their architects
             | design?
             | 
             | Employing an internal economist might be able to give you
             | an idea of financial things going on in the world, but
             | employing an economist who writes for a prominent media
             | company or is on TV allows you to shape how the public
             | THINKS about economics and financial markets which is much
             | more powerful.
             | 
             | Perhaps the tweet is not an open admission of this, but it
             | doesn't take a lot of effort to connect the dots.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | pwned1 wrote:
         | Considering that the former Director of National Intelligence,
         | who committed perjury before congress, is a regular CNN
         | contributor and go-to guy for commentary, I think the answer is
         | pretty clear.
        
           | Victerius wrote:
           | You should read his book, Facts and Fears. No perjury was
           | committed. The question was incorrectly phrased and a lot of
           | context was left out.
        
             | exogenousdata wrote:
             | Michael Flynn plead guilty to the charges. He signed the
             | statement of offense[0] with his personal lawyer. Simply
             | because Mr Flynn chose to write a book of fiction
             | afterwards does not change the fact that he admitted his
             | guilt to the courts under penalty of perjury.
             | 
             | "The preceding statement is a summary, made for the purpose
             | of providing the Court with a factual basis for my guilty
             | plea to the charge against me. It does not include all of
             | the facts known to me regarding this offense. I make this
             | statement knowingly and voluntarily and because I am, in
             | fact, guilty of the crime charged. No threats have been
             | made to me nor am I under the influence of anything that
             | could impede my ability to understand this Statement of the
             | Offense fully.
             | 
             | I have read every word of this Statement of the Offense, or
             | have had it read to me. Pursuant to Federal Rule of
             | Criminal Procedure 11, after consulting with my attorneys,
             | I agree and stipulate to this Statement of the Offense, and
             | declare under penalty of perjury that it is true and
             | correct."
             | 
             | [0] - https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download
        
               | pwned1 wrote:
               | We're talking about Clapper, not Flynn.
        
               | TeeMassive wrote:
               | Flynn was entrapped and his family threatened: https://yo
               | utu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406...
        
               | unclebucknasty wrote:
               | Was he also entrapped into running around the country
               | taking QAnon oaths?
               | 
               | Was he entrapped into calling for a Myanmar-style coup in
               | the U.S.?
               | 
               | Was he entrapped into plotting the kidnapping of a
               | Turkish dissident in contravention of official U.S.
               | policy?
               | 
               | Was he entrapped into failing to register his work on
               | behalf of a foreign government?
               | 
               | Was he entrapped into neglecting to disclose contacts
               | with Russian officials?
               | 
               | Was he entrapped into meeting with Putin and accepting
               | tens of thousands of dollars from Russian state media?
               | 
               | Stuff just keeps happening to poor Mike and, to top it
               | all off, the mean ol' FBI went out of their way to entrap
               | him for no good reason (it was on YouTube, so it must be
               | true).
        
               | selimthegrim wrote:
               | I guess he got entrapped into calling for one religion
               | too.
        
               | pwned1 wrote:
               | One only needs to read his indictment to see that they
               | didn't point to any specific false statements by him.
        
               | TeeMassive wrote:
               | Most of the things you said were either things he didn't
               | got indicted for or not even crimes to begin with. I get
               | it that you do not like Flynn, that's fine, but the
               | politicization of the FBI and the DOJ is something that
               | should worry anyone that cares about rule of law and not
               | wanting to live under a despotic regime.
               | 
               | The actions of the judge are also very problematic in
               | itself. Fighting a motion to dismiss using ex parte
               | material? Common.
               | 
               | He was arrested due to an informal FBI meeting, without
               | any lawyer, based on very technical questions that he
               | tried to answer (because the meeting appeared to be work
               | related) the best he could without the documents the FBI
               | was referring to.
               | 
               | When it comes to the Flynn case, the evil really is in
               | the details. Click-bait titles and angry tweets are not
               | good source of information when it comes to complicated
               | judicial sagas.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | Please don't make false claims. You can argue that he
             | should have lied (for whatever reason) under oath, but you
             | cannot argue that he didn't lie under oath.
        
               | TeeMassive wrote:
               | Considering the context, that's not exactly what
               | happened: https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtR
               | dktdmBtZCy406...
        
             | cool_dude85 wrote:
             | Wait, he says in his book that he didn't commit perjury?
             | Well, that lets him off the hook then.
        
             | Zigurd wrote:
             | "No perjury was committed." is true if you believe he was
             | bound to lie under the circumstances. Is there a law that
             | says so, or that says such a lie does not constitute
             | perjury?
        
               | joconde wrote:
               | Well what does the law says if someone under oath gets
               | asked for classified information they aren't allowed to
               | disclose, and saying that it's classified would itself
               | disclose a secret? Maybe there just wasn't a clearly good
               | answer.
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | Or we can refer to Wikipedia in which Clapper's excuse is
             | (paraphrases) "I forgot" and "they weren't supposed to ask
             | about something classified" to which Wyden replied "he got
             | the questions in advance so he could tell us not to ask
             | about classified stuff."
             | 
             |  _Wyden then asked Clapper, "Does the NSA collect any type
             | of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of
             | Americans?" He responded, "No, sir." Wyden asked, "It does
             | not?" and Clapper said, "Not wittingly. There are cases
             | where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not
             | wittingly."_
             | 
             | [...]
             | 
             |  _In Clapper 's 2018 memoir, he provides a fuller
             | explanation of the incident:_
             | 
             |  _...because the NSA program under Section 215 was highly
             | classified, Senator Wyden wouldn 't or shouldn't have been
             | asking questions that required classified answers on
             | camera....my error had been forgetting about Section 215,
             | but even if I had remembered it, there still would have
             | been no acceptable, unclassified way for me to answer the
             | question in an open hearing. Even my saying, "We'll have to
             | wait for the closed, classified session to discuss this,"
             | would have given something away. ...I ought to have sent a
             | classified letter to Senator Wyden explaining my thoughts
             | when I'd answered and that I misunderstood what he was
             | actually asking me about. Yes, I made a mistake - a big one
             | - when I responded, but I did not lie. I answered with
             | truth in what I understood the context of the question to
             | be._
             | 
             |  _On June 11, U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) accused Clapper
             | of not giving a "straight answer," noting that Clapper's
             | office had been provided with the question a day in advance
             | of the hearing and was given the opportunity following
             | Clapper's testimony to amend his response._
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper
        
               | orangepurple wrote:
               | > I answered with truth in what I understood the context
               | of the question to be.
               | 
               | I love this quote. I can listen to someone ask me a
               | question, discard what was asked and pretend I was asked
               | another question, then reply to my own imagination.
               | 
               | These people are sociopaths
        
               | netizen-936824 wrote:
               | I think you would be considered more of a sociopath when
               | you can't consider just _how incredibly different_ human
               | perceptions can be
        
               | ALittleLight wrote:
               | Clapper wasn't asked a vague question and he didn't
               | answer ambiguously. There is no room for "how incredibly
               | different human perceptions can be". Clapper was asked a
               | direct question in sworn testimony before Congress and
               | brazenly lied. Repeatedly.
               | 
               | That Clapper faced no real consequences for his perjury
               | and his part in violating the Constitution and the rights
               | and privacy of all Americans simply shows how little
               | power Congress and the American people have over the
               | villains and criminals in the intelligence services.
        
         | pphysch wrote:
         | > Is there any reason to think this isn't going on right now?
         | 
         | The alliance between the corporate media and the intelligence
         | community could not be any clearer.
         | 
         | Looking past the endless barrage of yellow journalism in the
         | traditional press, let's take a close look at Twitter.
         | 
         | Last year, Twitter manually added tags to accounts deemed
         | "foreign state media". Mysteriously, accounts like Radio Free
         | Asia and Radio Free Europe, which are CIA cutouts directly
         | funded by the US government, do not get such tags [1]. Look up
         | RT, CGTN, etc for examples of this tag in action.
         | 
         | Also last year, independent journalists dropped a bombshell
         | report [2] on leaked documents detailing an anti-Russian
         | disinformation operation that involves Reuters, BBC, and other
         | "independent" news media groups.
         | 
         | If you try to post [2] on Twitter, your post will be
         | permanently marked with a visual warning banner about "hacked
         | materials". AFAIK it is currently the only link that generates
         | this response from Twitter. Ironically, this virtually
         | guarantees its credibility, rather than simply dismissing it to
         | the trash heap of crazy Qanon theories, etc.
         | 
         | Finally, over the past few years Twitter has been officially
         | releasing information on "disinformation" operations that occur
         | on Twitter. Most recently, Twitter endorsed a report from the
         | """independent""" (read: entirely funded by weapons
         | manufacturers and Western governments) think tank ASPI which
         | alleged to uncover a massive Chinese disinformation operation.
         | I won't comment on the veracity of that report and encourage
         | you to read it yourself and judge the quality of their
         | "scientific" method. Regardless, it shows a clear alliance
         | between Twitter and these special interests in the intelligence
         | community.
         | 
         | The related blog post from Twitter [3] is more worrying,
         | because it suggests that your account can be removed if it
         | engages at all with what is deemed to be a "disinformation
         | campaign". Which might include liking or retweeting an
         | apolitical tweet from an account marked "foreign state media",
         | etc.
         | 
         | [1] - https://twitter.com/RadioFreeAsia?s=20
         | 
         | [2] - https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reuters-bbc-uk-
         | foreign-of...
         | 
         | [3] -
         | https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2021/disclosin...
        
         | arthur_sav wrote:
         | > media cover current politics objectively
         | 
         | Any person with half a brain knows that corporate media are
         | just propaganda machines with political agendas at this point.
        
           | complianceowl wrote:
           | So true. Thankfully, I've found refuge in social media
           | companies; Twitter, Facebook, Instagram? Pfffff! Beacons of
           | free speech and truth bro.
        
             | arthur_sav wrote:
             | Social media is a medium, not the source. Following the
             | work of independent journalists, in whatever medium you
             | choose to consume, is the best approach atm.
        
               | dude187 wrote:
               | Well, previously that was the case, but that's why they
               | started committing biased censorship. Now it isn't
        
         | jedmeyers wrote:
         | I'll give you one more: is there any reason to think CIA hasn't
         | infiltrated HN comments right now?
        
           | cbHXBY1D wrote:
           | Not sure about HN but there's plenty of evidence of
           | intelligence agencies using Reddit to craft public opinion.
           | 
           | Look at the demonization of the US's geopolitical rivals and
           | the stories that get pushed. For example, questioning the
           | Russian bounties story for a while would get you responses of
           | "Russian bot". We know now the Russian bounties story was
           | weak from the start:
           | https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-
           | security/remember-...
           | 
           | Repeat ad nauseam for other geopolitical rivals.
        
           | paganel wrote:
           | I don't see them interested in nerds and in nerd-culture, to
           | be honest, eventually maybe there are some FBI or Secret
           | Service lurkers in here, definitely some past or present NSA
           | employees/collaborators.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | On Bernstein's reliability here: in December 1977--January
         | 1976, the House Intelligence Committee held hearings on this
         | subject which strongly support Bernstein's claims through
         | direct testimony of CIA officials and officers involved. Those
         | were published in 1978, and are now available at the Internet
         | Archive:
         | 
         | https://archive.org/details/CIAMedia1978Hearings/page/n3/mod...
         | 
         | The _New York Times_ ran a six-part series by John Crewdson
         | concurrent with the hearings, based in large part on them
         | though also independent research and interviews by the _Times_.
         | I 've compiled that series here:
         | 
         | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/cdec9a80ce3b0139a0df002590d8e...
         | 
         | "The CIA's 3-Decade Effort to Mold the World's Views"
         | (1977-12-25) https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/25/archives/the-
         | cias-3decade...
         | 
         | "Worldwide Propaganda Network Built by the C.I.A." (1977-12-26)
         | https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/26/archives/worldwide-propag...
         | 
         | "C.I.A. Established Many Links To Journalists in U.S. and
         | Abroad" (1977-12-27)
         | https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/27/archives/cia-established-...
         | 
         | "Colby Acknowledges U.S. Press Picked Up Bogus C.I.A. Accounts"
         | (1977-12-28) https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/28/archives/colby-
         | acknowledg...
         | 
         | "U.S. Correspondents Give Views on C.I.A." (1977-12-29)
         | https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/29/archives/us-correspondent...
         | 
         | "Ex-Envoy Says Risk of Exposure Negated C.I.A. Propaganda
         | Value" (1977-12-30)
         | https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/30/archives/exenvoy-says-ris...
         | 
         | The total set runs about 50 pages formatted as PDF (ask me how
         | I know). Markdown / HTML / ePub / PDF are available.
         | 
         | As to current practices, the CIA have pinky sworn they totally
         | wouldn't....
        
         | oxymoran wrote:
         | Wow, never heard of this dilanian guy but he is still at it and
         | it's directly related to the cia: https://news.yahoo.com/cia-
         | chief-warns-russians-consequences...
         | 
         | Interestingly enough, I did google for fun and I also
         | DuckDuckGo'd. interesting differences. All the google results
         | were articles from 2014 when the intercept broke the news.
         | DuckDuckGo has much more current info, including the yahoo link
         | I found.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | theknocker wrote:
         | It's not congruent with a free press and it undermines
         | democracy. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | >Am I supposed to believe that all these media cover current
         | politics objectively
         | 
         | I cannot begin to comprehend how anyone can consume the current
         | political coverage and still believe it's objective. Also, of
         | course not, nobody has ever suggested such a thing.
        
           | bediger4000 wrote:
           | Yeah, the current political coverage really seems pro-Trump
           | and anti-Biden. Biden's job creation is pitiful at 210K,
           | where Trump's 200K was most excellent.
           | 
           | Super obvious general pro-Trump bias obvious. Also, every
           | issue is given a conservative frame, which is really weird. I
           | think that arises from conservatives screaming "liberal bias"
           | for 40 years, and the media bending over backwards to try to
           | placate conservatives. Conservatives in turn, have realized
           | that they can continue to scream "liberal bias" and get more
           | favorable treatment. The media reinforce bad-faith claims of
           | "fake news" or "liberal bias".
        
             | colpabar wrote:
             | What are you talking about?
        
         | orangepurple wrote:
         | Who is claiming a free press?
        
         | jweir wrote:
         | Not well known is that the CIA commissioned an animated version
         | of Animal Farm.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm_(1954_film)
        
         | citilife wrote:
         | > If we take Bernstein at his word (and there's no reason not
         | to), basically all the US media has secretly cooperated with
         | the CIA. Is there any reason to think this isn't going on right
         | now? I mean, google "ken dilanian cia" for a good time. Then
         | think: Dilanian is still a working journalist.
         | 
         | Look at the number of former CIA, NSA and FBI directors /
         | agents working as journalists or as advisors or make regular
         | appearance to CNN alone.
         | 
         | There's a whole rabbit hole you can go down. I recommend "The
         | Plot Against the President" if you want a good insight as to
         | how the news / government collaborate.
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Against-President-Devin-Nunes/dp...
         | 
         | The portrayal is highly believed by the right, almost entirely
         | ignored on the left, so it's worth a watch -- if only to
         | understand gap in knowledge.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | plantdude wrote:
         | the media operates globally because distribution is important &
         | stories come from all over. outside of any sort of conspiracy
         | around what the CIA could use the media to do... there are
         | obvious operational benefits to working within the media or a
         | similarly structured and distributed organization.
         | 
         | the real question isn't did the CIA stop using one type of
         | organization or did they find ways to use other types of
         | organizations. is the CIA doing the work? are they taking
         | advantage of all of the different organizations that oddly have
         | some sort of social protection similar to diplomats. whether
         | it's NGOs allowed into a country that is just kind of hard to
         | get into... or some freelance photographers tagging along with
         | a news crew as they report on a country ahead of an invasion.
         | maybe it's just the adjust professor teaching abroad as a way
         | to monitor certain foreign CS students whose parents are high
         | value assets and all of their labs and most definitely the
         | final is just a way to get malicious code onto devices they're
         | going to bring home.
        
         | justicezyx wrote:
         | I see no inherent issue with news agency cooperate with CIA or
         | any other 3 letter agency, on projects for the good of the
         | society and international community.
         | 
         | The issue, as you probably having in mind, is that media lost
         | their independence in finance, political protection, etc. Those
         | then gradually corrupted their spirit and mentality. To the
         | point that they start to produce contents that are easily
         | nidged and manipulated.
         | 
         | The first step of regaining media's strength is to rebuild a
         | financial foundation for independent media. They should and
         | must remain self-sufficient in support their own organization
         | and employees.
         | 
         | I'll be mocked for this, but, it seems to me that only such
         | tech right available is crypto and block chain. I see no other
         | tech even remotely close.
        
           | rhizome wrote:
           | Or breaking up Facebook and Google such that they aren't able
           | to commandeer all of the advertising dollars that would be
           | required to "rebuild," at least under the currently dominant
           | business models (which get further entrenched with every
           | banking restriction imposed on independent businesspeople,
           | but I digress).
        
             | justicezyx wrote:
             | This approach will meet bigger resistance.
             | 
             | The strength of capitalism is competition and freedom of
             | innovation. Use new things to replace old things are the
             | most constructive approach.
        
               | burnafter291 wrote:
               | It's too bad we're not operating under a capitalist
               | system, isn't it?
        
         | Clubber wrote:
         | So now and again you'll hear a story about an anonymous source
         | at some national security agency says this or that. That's
         | actually a planted story authorized by said agency. You can
         | tell because any time there is an unauthorized leak, you get a
         | reaction like you did with Assange, Winner or Snowden.
        
         | TechnoTimeStop wrote:
         | Wait so an organization of the free worlds government wants to
         | ensure media has context? WOW TOTALLY OVERKILL RIGHT? Better
         | get back to murdering 60,000,000 people in China and
         | disappearing anyone who disagrees.
        
         | jcranberry wrote:
         | >If we take Bernstein at his word (and there's no reason not
         | to), basically all the US media has secretly cooperated with
         | the CIA. Is there any reason to think this isn't going on right
         | now?
         | 
         | There is a reason. Controversy which began in 1973 and spurred
         | Congressional investigations and this very article led to the
         | CIA to sign a 1977 directive that prohibited them from
         | recruiting or impersonating journalists, peace corps, and the
         | clergy.
         | 
         | There was a loophole discovered in 1996 that allows the agency
         | to waiver that directive in extreme circumstances and must
         | notify the president, and a couple others (cant remember).
         | 
         | This prompted a clause in the 1997 authorization act which
         | codified into law that the CIA must notify both the house and
         | senate intelligence committees and get a written sign-off with
         | reasoning why its necessary from either the President or CIA
         | director before impersonating or recruiting a journalist.
        
           | the_optimist wrote:
           | > must notify both the house and senate intelligence
           | committees and get a written sign-off
           | 
           | This is an interesting legal artifact but it doesn't speak to
           | appraisal of whether or not this is currently occurring or
           | has occurred. In other words, they could simply have pressed
           | this loophole with another loophole, or those committed could
           | have simply signed off. Absence of evidence remains not
           | evidence of absence.
        
           | tchalla wrote:
           | > There is a reason. Controversy which began in 1973 and
           | spurred Congressional investigations and this very article
           | led to the CIA to sign a 1977 directive that prohibited them
           | from recruiting or impersonating journalists, peace corps,
           | and the clergy.
           | 
           | That doesn't mean they don't influence the media. The next
           | time there are a sequence of articles on a particular country
           | - you can think about when it plays up.
        
             | realce wrote:
             | I'm not trying to go to bat for The Company but all sources
             | of information "influence the media" and it's the job of a
             | good journalist to get info from every source available to
             | them, including intelligence agencies.
             | 
             | The wording of "influence" is just too vague - prohibitions
             | need to be specific. The CIA saying they'll deport your
             | undocumented housekeeper if you don't print XYZ is one
             | thing, them feeding information with "spin" on it to a
             | journalist is another entirely.
        
         | desine wrote:
         | Gary Webb showed journalists what their choices were, so if the
         | CIA wants media influence, they get media influence.
         | 
         | edit: Also Michael Hastings, according to some. Webb was pretty
         | blatant.
        
           | fedreserved wrote:
           | Gary Webb solidified the cias 2 prong approach in dealing
           | with the media.
           | 
           | Silver or lead. Take our money, or publish the truth or get
           | suicided by shooting yourself twice in the head with a
           | revolver.
        
         | webdoodle wrote:
         | The CIA, through it's funding arm In-Q-Tel, bought into early
         | [social media data mining
         | firms](https://www.businessinsider.com/companies-funded-by-
         | cia-2016...) as well.
        
           | dr-detroit wrote:
           | ABC news reported that facebook is just a CIA honeypot.
           | Nobody cares... Charlie Wilson's War is a loveable Tom Hanks
           | movie. People do not care even when something is directly
           | harming them.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | See also "A Manhattan Project for Online Identity" (2011), by
           | Alex Howard of O'Reilly Media, on the NSTIC (National
           | Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace)
           | 
           | http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/05/nstic-analysis-identity-
           | pri...
           | 
           | https://www.nist.gov/itl/applied-cybersecurity/tig
        
         | DnDGrognard wrote:
         | His boss during Watergate was a mate of Angleton and had been
         | kicked out of I believe France
        
         | aww_dang wrote:
         | As an example, Anderson Cooper of CNN proudly admits that he
         | worked as an intern at the CIA. Do with that what you will.
         | There's a prejudice to pejoratively dismiss these things out of
         | hand as conspiracy theory. One could easily push back asking
         | about naivete, but it isn't worth it.
         | 
         | >"As a college student, I had a number of summer jobs and
         | internships, including working at the CIA."
         | 
         | >"Oh, yeah, in case you're interested, after I graduated
         | college, I briefly worked as a waiter, but I decided not to
         | make a career out of that job either."
         | 
         | See also: "Operation Mockingbird"
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
         | 
         | https://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blo...
        
           | Victerius wrote:
           | And Princeton valedictorian and current professor of
           | mathematics at Duke Lilian Pierce interned at the National
           | Security Agency. Don't read too much into Cooper's very brief
           | time at the CIA.
        
             | cool_dude85 wrote:
             | Don't know anything about the specific guy, but I wouldn't
             | be surprised if there were 3-letter involvement in higher
             | ed at some level.
             | 
             | But the broader answer to your point is to consider the
             | stakes and possible outcomes of clandestine influence of US
             | media and of the Duke math department. It would probably
             | very often come in handy to get favorable coverage, spike
             | stories, influence hiring, etc. at major outlets, and not
             | so often to do the same in the Duke math department.
             | 
             | It's the difference between believing that the CIA is the
             | one who knocked my mailbox over last night and believing
             | that they were involved in the JFK assassination. Before
             | considering evidence, we can provide many plausible reasons
             | that the CIA may have wanted to assassinate JFK and few
             | that they wanted to knock over my mailbox.
        
             | itsyaboi wrote:
             | Slightly tongue in cheek, but that's probably what the CIA
             | prefer you think.
        
             | imwillofficial wrote:
             | Ah so this other guy worked for a different place so we
             | shouldn't look to closely at Cooper. Makes total sense.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | What I will do with that is nothing because there is no way
           | an intern did anything interesting enough to be worth
           | mentioning in this thread.
        
           | tboyd47 wrote:
           | Do you know what the hiring process is like for the CIA?
           | 
           | https://www.cia.gov/careers/how-we-hire/hiring-process/
        
             | nextstep wrote:
             | The CIA works through a network of contractors and assets
             | they cultivate over many years and through many layers of
             | intermediaries. There are many levels of involvement beyond
             | directly working for the agency.
        
             | daveevad wrote:
             | You deserve a promotion if this referral converts.
        
           | burnafter291 wrote:
           | I always thought Cooper looked like a spook. Like he was
           | grown in a lab to run around in a suit with a badge doing
           | "REDACTED" and "CLASSIFIED".
        
         | Consultant32452 wrote:
         | It starts in the schools. Public school teachers train the
         | children which news sources are "authoritative". And it doesn't
         | matter how wrong they are, how much they lie, how bloodthirsty
         | they are about any war, people do as they are trained.
         | 
         | It's very common for TV news personalities to have direct ties
         | to the intelligence community, and it's no surprise they are
         | mouthpieces to the regime.
         | 
         | Here's just one list of 15 former spooks working for the
         | "news."
         | 
         | https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/23/cnn-msnbc-15-spooks-mccab...
        
           | handrous wrote:
           | > It starts in the schools. Public school teachers train the
           | children which news sources are "authoritative".
           | 
           | They basically don't have a choice but to teach them this if
           | they don't want to grade a bunch of papers about how the UK
           | royal family actually comprises lizard people from the Hollow
           | Earth, or the Earth is in fact flat, or that the holocaust or
           | moon landing were faked, or any number of more mundane bits
           | of bullshit. Yes there's more to source evaluation, but a
           | first pass of "is this contrary-to-common-knowledge truth-
           | bomb coming from a source generally regarded as credible?"
           | _actually is_ a reasonable and helpful first step.
        
         | me_me_me wrote:
         | Relevant read:
         | 
         | Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media
         | 
         | Tl;dr Through subtle mechanisms, gov can promote preferred
         | media outlets by giving them better/direct/scoops informations
         | - resulting in better sales - resulting in better deals for ads
         | - resulting in bigger profits.
         | 
         | In turn, people in those media outlets are incentivised to
         | shush descending voices/opinions by 'promoting' those into
         | sport section or horoscope section.
         | 
         | Its self selecting and self correcting mechanism.
        
           | echelon_musk wrote:
           | This is exactly what has happened in the case of The Guardian
           | in the UK. See the previous discussion [0] on 'How the UK
           | Security Services neutralised The Guardian'. This is such a
           | shame because they were perhaps the only paper in the UK with
           | enough courage and understanding to cover the Snowden leaks.
           | 
           | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20937555
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | > Its self selecting and self correcting mechanism.
           | 
           | Semantically: %/correcting/perpetuating/
           | 
           | Pedantically: %/Its/It's a/
        
             | tempodox wrote:
             | You overlooked one: s/descending/dissenting/
        
             | imwillofficial wrote:
             | Self correcting fits, as in the feedback mechanisms are
             | arrayed in such a way that disobedience is punished without
             | outside pressures. Simple loss of access to scoops cascades
             | through the process until news company makes less money, so
             | dissent would be swiftly taken care of.
        
           | myth_drannon wrote:
           | That's one of the accusations of ex-prime minister of Israel
           | Netanyahu's corrution trial.
        
           | zionic wrote:
           | Perhaps "self corrupting mechanism" is a better term?
        
           | herbstein wrote:
           | Manufacturing Consent is such an interesting book. The
           | framework of analysis Herman and Chomsky present is general
           | enough that it, while approaching almost 40 years old, still
           | very accurately seems to describe the current media
           | landscape.
           | 
           | Chomsky is a famous left-leaning anarchist, and I find it
           | interesting that his analysis isn't "the media is too right-
           | wing" or "the media is too left-wing". Instead, his analysis
           | is primarily about how power begets power -- even at the
           | level of the local paper.
           | 
           | This[0] short 3-minute video does a fine job of letting him
           | explain his position on media bias while not really going
           | into the nitty gritty details. His books, however, do go into
           | the nitty gritty details while still being relatively easy to
           | read.
           | 
           | For anyone interested in Chomsky I highly recommend
           | "Understanding Power"[1] as the intro to his views on the
           | world. It's not as detailed in every topic as many of his
           | other books and is primarily conversational in style - owing
           | to it being transcribed discussions with audience members
           | after he has held a speech.
           | 
           | [0]: https://youtu.be/x60pSXlwmNE
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/194805.Understanding
           | _Pow...
        
       | atentaten wrote:
       | The Secret CIA Campaign to Influence Culture: Covert Cultural
       | Operations (2000) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdLB5l2wN3o
       | 
       | Watch or read Frances Stonor Saunders for some insights on how
       | this works.
        
         | disk0 wrote:
         | Some more recent academic work on the CCC recently started
         | reading--The CIA and the Congress for Cultural Freedom in the
         | Early Cold War: Strange Bedfellows, Routledge [2016]
         | 
         | Partial summary from libgen description:
         | 
         | >This book calls into question the conventional wisdom about
         | one of the most controversial episodes in the Cold War, and
         | tells the story of the CIA's backing of the Congress for
         | Cultural Freedom.
         | 
         | >For nearly two decades of the early Cold War, the CIA secretly
         | sponsored some of the world's most feted writers, philosophers,
         | and scientists as part of a campaign to stop Communism from
         | regaining a foothold in western Europe and Asia. By backing the
         | Congress for Cultural Freedom, the CIA subsidized dozens of
         | prominent magazines, global congresses, annual seminars, and
         | artistic festivals. When this operation--QKOPERA--became public
         | in 1967, it ignited one of the most damaging scandals in CIA
         | history. Ever since, the prevailing assumption has been that
         | the CIA, as the Congress's paymaster, manipulated a generation
         | of intellectuals into lending their names to pro-American,
         | anti-Communist ideas in exchange for prestigious bylines and
         | plentiful grants. Even today, a cloud hangs over the
         | reputations of many of the intellectuals associated with the
         | Congress.
         | 
         | >This book tells the story of how a small but determined group
         | of anti-Communist intellectuals in America and Western Europe
         | banded together to fight the Soviet Union's cultural offensive.
         | They enlisted one of the CIA's earliest recruits to their cause
         | --and they persuaded the CIA to foot their bill with virtually
         | no strings attached. The CIA became a bureaucratic behemoth
         | with an outsized influence on American foreign policy, but it
         | began as a disorganized and unconventional outfit desperate to
         | make inroads on all fronts against a foe many believed would
         | ignite a nuclear war by 1954. When Michael Josselson, a recruit
         | from the CIA's Berlin office, pitched a proposal for what
         | became the Congress for Cultural Freedom, senior officials were
         | thus willing to gamble $50,000 on the venture. And when the
         | Congress proved effective in enlisting some of the twentieth
         | century's most prominent intellectuals, senior CIA officials
         | championed QKOPERA as the centerpiece of the Agency's efforts
         | to woo the non-Communist left.
        
       | blakesterz wrote:
       | This is from 1977 "His 25,000-word cover story, published in
       | Rolling Stone on October 20, 1977, is reprinted below."
        
       | Wolfenstein98k wrote:
       | MSNBC and CNN have the closest (visible) ties to the intelligence
       | entities today, with a revolving door between them. Clapper and
       | Brennan are big examples, but only two.
       | 
       | Weird thought, so I try not to think too hard about it.
        
       | stopglobalism wrote:
       | Operation Mockingbird is an alleged large-scale program of the
       | United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that began in the
       | early years of the Cold War and attempted to manipulate news
       | media for propaganda purposes.
       | 
       | ... "alleged". .... haha. hahaha. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
       | 
       | Ask Anderson "Mockingbird" Cooper over at C(IA)N(EWS)N(ETWORK)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 1cvmask wrote:
       | Good indicative piece in the article:
       | 
       | Among the executives who lent their cooperation to the Agency
       | were Williarn Paley of the Columbia Broadcasting System, Henry
       | Luce of Tirne Inc., Arthur Hays Sulzberger of the New York Times,
       | Barry Bingham Sr. of the LouisviIle Courier-Journal, and James
       | Copley of the Copley News Service. Other organizations which
       | cooperated with the CIA include the American Broadcasting
       | Company, the National Broadcasting Company, the Associated Press,
       | United Press International, Reuters, Hearst Newspapers, Scripps-
       | Howard, Newsweek magazine, the Mutual Broadcasting System, the
       | Miami Herald and the old Saturday Evening Post and New York
       | Herald-Tribune.
       | 
       | By far the most valuable of these associations, according to CIA
       | officials, have been with the New York Times, CBS and Time Inc.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | One thing I realized about the media is that there is ALWAYS
       | forces behind to manipulate the view. In the best case when
       | journalists are simple individuals, their view of the world still
       | create sort of biases.
       | 
       | From that perspective, nothing is objective and everything is
       | subjective. This might be an extreme view but I do believe it's a
       | good mental antidote.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | It seems like you are making two points here. That the view is
         | manipulated by forces behind the scenes and that the view is
         | subjective. Yes. All humans who write words down taint them
         | with their own subjective view. This does not mean that we are
         | powerless though. Reporting can be improved by fact checking,
         | editing, and other means. We can also use technology to make
         | sure that the color of chosen words does not prime the reader.
         | This does not imply manipulation or behind the scenes
         | manipulation.
         | 
         | My own opinion: Media bias is a boogeyman. If somebody needs to
         | be flatly told what is or isn't biased or if some source is
         | left or right leaning then they are a dimwit. Even asking for
         | unbiased information shows stupidity- it does not exist in an
         | absolute sense.
         | 
         | I agree with you that you should start from a frame of mind
         | that the media is biased because it is. Embrace it. There seems
         | to be a push to therefore reject all news media which is a
         | scary thought.
         | 
         | The press is the only private entity specifically mentioned in
         | the US Constitution. It is often called the 4th branch of
         | government because of the oversight that it provides.
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | That's a very interesting article with a lot of relevance for
       | today's American media world, which also seems to have a very
       | intertwined relationship with the various intelligence agencies
       | (16 or so) of the US government.
       | 
       | One case that stands out today is that of the Washington Post and
       | its editorial/journalistic direction since it was bought by Jeff
       | Bezos for $250 million in August 2013. This was preceded by
       | Bezos' AWS getting a $600 million CIA web services contract in
       | March 2013. This seems to have resulted in a rather striking
       | shift in coverage and editorial opinion at the WaPo.
       | 
       | Prior to this, the Washington Post had published a striking
       | expose of the national security state, by reporters Dana Priest
       | and William Arkin, entitled "Top Secret America". Here's
       | legendary nuclear weapons historian Richard Rhodes reviewing the
       | book that came out of that effort in 2011:
       | 
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/top-secre...
       | 
       | > ""Top Secret America" originated in a 2010 Washington Post
       | series of the same name that set out to enumerate how many
       | Americans held top secret clearances -- about 854,000, the Post's
       | investigative team found, more than the population of Washington.
       | The book is far more ambitious than was the series, however, and
       | makes the team's investigations available in detail to those of
       | us who live beyond the Beltway..."
       | 
       | Since the change of ownership at the WaPo, with the new owner
       | probably interested in the perpetual renewal of that AWS CIA
       | contract and expanding such services to all the other intel
       | agencies, I can't think of anything even remotely similar being
       | published at the Post. Note this doesn't mean WaPo employees have
       | gone back to being CIA agents, rather that the editorial board
       | has realized that publishing any more such exposes are probably
       | not going to help with their future careers at the Post.
       | 
       | Another Church Committee with the power to subpoena all the
       | relevant parties under oath about this situation might be a good
       | idea, but don't hold your breath.
        
         | rhizome wrote:
         | A better idea is breaking up Amazon, splitting off, at the very
         | least, AWS and WaPo from the retailer/logistics firm.
        
           | muricula wrote:
           | The WaPo isn't owned by Amazon, the WaPo is owned by Bezos,
           | who also happens to own Amazon. So I don't think an FTC
           | breakup would really work at all.
        
         | walshemj wrote:
         | The monopoly of media in the hands of billionaires like Murdoc
         | et al is more worrying.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Jerry2 wrote:
       | In one of the previous threads on the influence of the CIA on the
       | media, someone mentioned that there was a documentary about this.
       | It's called "On Company Business (1980)" and it features
       | interviews with former CIA directors and various officers and
       | also with lots of critics [1]. I managed to find a copy of it on
       | YouTube and it's absolutely amazing and can't recommend it enough
       | if you want to hear about the creation of the CIA and their work
       | from principal actors [2]. Among many other things they discuss,
       | it details how the CIA infiltrated the media.
       | 
       | It seems to me that the only difference between 40 years ago and
       | today is that some TV networks and media companies are not even
       | hiding their association with the CIA and hire former CIA
       | officers in the open as "analysts" so they can push their agenda.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093265/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYrznlDTE_M
        
         | 1cvmask wrote:
         | There are some great John Stockwell videos on CSPAN and
         | YouTube.
         | 
         | Here is one on fake news and the CIA:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XibCflWxZuA
         | 
         | John Stockwell on the CIA secret wars:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTVdGOHDqg
        
       | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
       | "That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what
       | will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun."
        
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