[HN Gopher] Apple Neural Engine Internal: From ML Algorithm to H...
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Apple Neural Engine Internal: From ML Algorithm to HW Registers
Author : blopeur
Score : 83 points
Date : 2021-12-08 11:02 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.blackhat.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.blackhat.com)
| exdsq wrote:
| Picking up am M1 Pro tomorrow I hope. Assuming it can play
| Factorio?
| judge2020 wrote:
| Factorio has a Mac client[0] so the M1 Pro will surely play it
| just fine.
|
| 0: https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/
| selectodude wrote:
| It doesn't support ARM64 and according the developer, probably
| never will but it runs very well on Rosetta.
| i_like_apis wrote:
| Oof. Clicking this link got me blacklisted from my router. Had to
| spoof my MAC address to reconnect.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| What?
| i_like_apis wrote:
| The router I'm connecting with is this Meraki thing I don't
| manage. It has some security features. Upon opening a link to
| blackhat.com, it put my MAC address on a blacklist.
| mr_toad wrote:
| Sounds like you should put the manufacturer on a blacklist.
| phs2501 wrote:
| Overzealous "protection" filtering presumably (guessing from
| the Blackhat name). Happens on corporate VPNs too. We can't
| have nice things.
| blopeur wrote:
| Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wvBDUnPNEo
| retskrad wrote:
| FTC should investigate Apple for misleading and false
| advertising. Apple in their presentation compared the M1 Max to
| the NVidia RTX 3080 mobile and claimed the M1 Max chip can
| compete with the Nvidia card but yesterdays video by Linus Tech
| Tips show that the M1 Max is only competitive when it comes to
| editing video, which is an extremely narrow use case. As a
| general purpose GPU, the M1 Max is years behind the RTX 3080.
| quenix wrote:
| How is this relevant to the Apple Neural Engine and this
| BlackHat talk?
| manuelabeledo wrote:
| The M1 Max runs also at a fraction of the 3080 TDP.
|
| Performance in gaming is a non issue. Apple didn't advertise it
| as a gaming machine, and quite honestly, nobody buys a $3000+
| MacBook to play games.
| treesknees wrote:
| I bought my M1 Pro not for the sole purpose of being a gaming
| rig, but I did certainly buy it with the hopes that it could
| play games at least better than my old Intel integrated
| graphics laptop did.
|
| And it does - I can run the PCSX2 PS2 emulator with a
| controller and my fans don't even spin up. And with Rosetta
| II there are plenty of Mac games I can play without any
| issues.
| smoldesu wrote:
| What do you intend to do when they remove Rosetta?
| Raymonf wrote:
| Use a Windows VM? x86(_64)->ARM64 is not going away on
| Windows anytime soon.
| officeplant wrote:
| Pray that there are more natively ported games by then,
| and just not updating and holding onto Rosetta for much
| longer than I should. Win11ARM in Parallels doing x86
| emulation works pretty well for older games and its how I
| play old shooters and Everquest at the moment.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Very few people buy gaming laptops to edit video on, but
| that's not a reason for them to perform poorly at the task.
| The most frustrating part about the M1-series is that it's
| gaming performance is limited by arbitrary software
| decisions.
| RealityVoid wrote:
| The M1 is an impressive chip... for what it is. I bought an Air
| just to mess with it, while in the past I would not have
| touched Apple with a 10 foot pole. But, the whole framing
| around M1 being better than _everything_ in the x86 world was
| just weird and not true. Yes, perf/watt it was unbeatable, but
| the rest...if you just care about raw processing power, you'd
| still buy a desktop x86. I think Apple framed it this way and
| most media ran with it, but I don't see this a sue apple kind
| of deal.
| Jcowell wrote:
| If raw performance is the _only_ thing you care about then
| you would get a desktop. If you care about mobility as well
| or changes a lot.
| marderfarker2 wrote:
| It's funny that you mention mobility. I usually see people
| stuck an extra slab of USB C to HDMI/USB hub beside their
| thinnest and lightest Apple laptops so that they can use
| peripherals.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Usually, except for the overwhelming majority of people
| who don't use a hub.
|
| (e.g. my Air has two cables running into it, power and
| display)
| vmchale wrote:
| I've actually found it slightly better in single-threaded
| performance. Only slower with rosetta.
| perardi wrote:
| 1. Cite exactly what they said in the presentation, and in
| particular did they compare actual games, or synthetic
| benchmarks?
|
| 2. It is insanely competitive, especially given power
| consumption, with the NVidia card in both synthetic benchmarks
| and video editing. Not so much with games...but that's
| complicated by _most games still running in Rosetta_.
| https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performanc...
|
| 3. Video is not an edge case. And how can I claim that? Because
| you are here citing...a video.
|
| 4. What does this have to do with the linked article?
| mhh__ wrote:
| Surely bigger issue is most games having given up supporting
| MacOS?
| pjmlp wrote:
| All game engines that matter in the market support Metal.
| dhruvdh wrote:
| For 3: you cannot compare consuming media with creating
| media.
| ctdonath wrote:
| Generating media in real-time on the user's computer rather
| blurs the line between who is creating vs consuming media.
| deep-root wrote:
| If you're shopping for a Macbook Pro, gaming is the extremely
| narrow use-case, no?
|
| Edit: various benchmarks seem to show the M1 Max games at about
| the FPS of a RTX 3060L (though with lower power). It's around
| the same price as a similarly spec'd 3060L gaming laptop.
| LegitShady wrote:
| It's signiticantly more expensive than a 3060 equipped
| Zephyrus and that doesn't change apples marketing pretending
| it was a 3080.
| vesrah wrote:
| Having owned one of those Zephyrus and owning a M1X there
| is no comparison on terms of quality or usability. Zephyrus
| is hot, loud, has a poor screen in comparison, and poor
| battery life.
| LegitShady wrote:
| You're right about the battery life, but in exchange an
| AMD zephyrus is significantly more performant at a lower
| price. That's a fair trade off.
|
| It's also not a ticking time bomb, since the SSD can be
| changed without sending the device into apple to change
| the entire CPU/SSD/GPU combo. Every one of these apple
| devices basically has planned obsolescence built in.
| mhh__ wrote:
| Well it's narrow historically but apple did seem to be
| implying it could game competitively with the latest from
| Nvidia. Which it apparently can (although there are
| practically no games), just bump the model down a step from
| what apple are saying.
|
| Also M1 Max seems to be on the order of a PS1000 more than a
| _3080_ equipped laptop, where are you getting that figure
| from?
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| It's going to get a lot less hot and noisy than a similarly
| specced 3060 laptop while also having vastly better battery
| life, which is worth something (varies depending on one's
| personal priorities). I would imagine a lot of people looking
| for portable power might value those qualities enough to
| trade away some raw graphical muscle.
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(page generated 2021-12-09 23:01 UTC)