[HN Gopher] Dyson loses fight for $198M compensation over EU ene...
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Dyson loses fight for $198M compensation over EU energy labelling
rules
Author : matthewmorgan
Score : 33 points
Date : 2021-12-08 19:09 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| leoh wrote:
| Does anyone have any precise details to help affirm or deny
| Dyson's claims?
| emn13 wrote:
| The court apparently agreed that the standard was flawed - it
| scrapped the standard! The court simply held the commission did
| not "manifestly and gravely disregard the limits [...]" to the
| point where dyson deserves hundreds of millions in
| compensation.
|
| i.e. to the extent that Dyson lost, it's revolving not around
| the energy efficiency bit itself (it won that part), but rather
| the claims that it lost hundreds of millions due to these rules
| and that the rules were so egregious it deserves compensation
| for that loss.
| agustif wrote:
| No but he peddled brexit and then moved production to
| singapore... You might default to not trusting a guy who does
| that...
| 2wrist wrote:
| and then was given a ventilator contract, with fanfare, at
| the start of the pandemic when there was a shortage, (whilst
| the government wasn't answering the phone from actual
| ventilator manufacturers) then they couldn't deliver.
|
| I will never by a dyson product.
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| I have a DC-62 vacuum cleaner and its a hell to empty.
| Batteries are short-lived and expensive.
|
| Their hand dryers are perfect microbe an virus spreading
| tools, apparently.
|
| Their kind of "airco" ventilators do not cool the air.
|
| So yes, Dyson is a failed brand.
| exhilaration wrote:
| I don't know about their cordless stuff but aren't their
| corded vacuums considered the best? We got a one of their
| orange "ball" vacuums in 2009 as a wedding gift, it's
| been used 300+ days per year for the past 12 years. I had
| change out the power switch in 2019 -- it was only $9 on
| Amazon + a 15 minute procedure I learned from a YouTube
| video. When this thing eventually dies I'm pretty sure
| I'm buying another one.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > I don't know about their cordless stuff but aren't
| their corded vacuums considered the best?
|
| Not really. They're not bad, but they're very expensive.
| You can get something comparable (Shark) for cheaper, or
| something better (Miele) for the same money.
|
| And Dyson has said that they're not making any new corded
| vacuums, they're focusing on cordless now.
| maxehmookau wrote:
| I don't think this is entirely fair. Separating the man
| from the brand, the products are pretty good. My dyson
| vacuum is excellent, even with a dog. My wife has the
| hairdryer which she loves.
|
| He did advocate for Brexit and then move production
| offshore though. So take the rough with the smooth.
| cesaref wrote:
| Agreed. I remember reading his autobiography back in 2005
| or so, and thinking what a weird self-centred individual
| he was. I certainly don't agree with his politics.
|
| However, I think there's no doubt that Dyson make great
| vacuum cleaners.
| maxehmookau wrote:
| He's a bit strange, from my eyes anyway. He's done some
| great things for UK innovation and product design.
| Politics aside, we shouldn't detract from that.
|
| But my wife can dry her hair in less than 20 minutes, and
| it's quiet. Well worth the money!
| turtlebits wrote:
| How is it hard to empty? The bottom just flips open. And
| there are lots of battery options- 3rd party ones aren't
| expensive.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| Even before that, as reported in the news in 2011 he
| stealthily built a swimming pool in the basement of his
| listed mansion without planning permission.
|
| He obviously knew what he was doing and it worked since,
| although he was later caught, he managed to escape
| prosecution and was granted retrospective permission... I'm
| not sure authorities would have been that understanding with
| everyone.
| smnrchrds wrote:
| Why Singapore out of all places? It seems a very expensive
| place to start a manufacturing company.
| azalemeth wrote:
| They're mostly not _manufactured_ in Singapore. They 're
| _designed_ in Singapore (formerly the UK), manufactured
| mostly in Malaysia and the Philipines (where labour is
| cheaper, [1]) and I presume the shift is entirely for tax
| reasons - in contrast to the UK it has far lower corporate
| taxation rates, and relevantly for Dyson himself, no
| capital gains tax _at all_ [2] unlike the UK, which I
| presume will dramatically improve his income. The fact that
| they 'll be in / closer to the same timezone as the
| manufacturing base probably helps as well.
|
| [1] https://www.quora.com/Where-and-how-are-Dyson-vacuums-
| made?s... [2] https://ebos-sg.com/singapore-is-a-tax-haven/
| snickmy wrote:
| I didn't know that Dyson actually peddled Brexit. That is a
| massive disappointment on such a brilliant person. (I'd love
| to read more if you have references)
| afandian wrote:
| It's all out in the open, he pushed for Brexit[0] citing
| British competetivity ... and then moved production out of
| Britain to Singapore.
|
| Got any references for 'briliant person'!?
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dyson#Pro-Brexit
| rocketbop wrote:
| It was widely reported in the press at the time a quick
| Google will provide a lot of results.
| blibble wrote:
| given his experience with EU energy labelling laws his
| position really isn't that unreasonable
|
| (essentially the laws were bought and paid for by his
| competitors)
|
| and they were annulled: https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload
| /docs/application/pdf/201...
| deadbunny wrote:
| > essentially the laws were bought and paid for by his
| competitors
|
| Citation Needed.
| emn13 wrote:
| Well, so he claims. Is that actually true? But
| regardless; even if he had reason to dislike certain
| regulators - that makes for a really poor reason to argue
| to remove yourself from the equation when it comes to
| influence over those regulations. If anything, if indeed
| the rule-making process was corrupt, that argues
| _against_ Brexit, not for it (from the perspective of
| business primarily involved in selling goods affected by
| those regulations).
|
| In fact, it sounds like those regulations hurt his
| competitors at least as much as Dyson:
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger-as-
| eu-ba... - "Dyson vacuum cleaners score highly in the
| ratings. However, the manufacturer has many concerns
| about flaws in the system that will ultimately be
| unhelpful for consumers."
|
| Notably, Dyson "won" in that review; it only lost the
| case for hundreds of millions in damages.
| blibble wrote:
| > that makes for a really poor reason to argue to remove
| yourself from the equation when it comes to influence
| over those regulations.
|
| here's a few Dyson subsidiaries: - Dyson
| BV (Dutch) - Dyson Austria GmbH - Dyson
| GmbH (German) - Dyson Finland Oy - Dyson
| Ireland Ltd - Dyson SAS (France) - Dyson
| Spain SLU - Dyson Sweden AB - Dyson sp zoo
| Poland
|
| it's a large multinational, not some micro-enterprise,
| brexit has little to no impact on his ability to
| "influence" regulations
| Arnt wrote:
| IIRC:
|
| Dyson said that the tests weren't representative of real use,
| and that if they used a vacuum cleaner all the way from empty
| to full, Dyson's would score much better. A court agreed that
| the tests weren't good and ordered improvement. Dyson then
| asked for financial compensation. A court said the tests
| weren't bad enough to warrant any compensation.
| snickmy wrote:
| This similar to another case where Dyson was arguing that some
| standard for performance verification are unfair to their
| product (https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/04/dyson-dryers-
| hurl-60... )
|
| They usually use as reference their own test methodology, which
| is overall a bit pointless. Either make it a standard, or
| adhere to one.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I never understood the appeal of Dyson products.
| agustif wrote:
| Marketing. Good (looking) design. Money for patents and more
| marketing.
|
| I had one at some time in my life, it was OK but not life
| changing to cost 10x what a normal regular vacuum would cost.
|
| It's just like any luxury item mostly flexing and status
| signaling through purchasing stuff, or so it seems to me
| IcyClAyMptHe wrote:
| I understood them back when my parents bought a Dyson bagless
| vacuum back in the early 2000s (iirc). It was high tech,
| powerful (I still remember them showing me how much more dust
| and dog hair it pulled out of the carpet), and advertised no
| loss of suction.
|
| Unfortunately it did lose suction over time, and was eventually
| replaced by an absolutely ancient Kirby vac (the kind that were
| sold by door to door salesmen god knows how long ago), which is
| built like a tank and still works perfectly well today.
| Probably the sort of thing I'd put in the "buy it for life"
| category.
|
| I still kind of put Dyson in that early 2000s category of
| products - both for aesthetic and general attitude reasons. It
| has that energy of "it's the year 2000, so stuff is now HIGH
| TECH", but often times the older, less flashy stuff is still
| better.
| thehenster wrote:
| The bathroom hand drier they invented is/was cool. No heat and
| knocking the water off with a faster jet of air by pushing it
| through a smaller hole was a decent improvement.
| KarlKode wrote:
| I prefer a simple paper towel dispenser or if you want to be
| more sustainable one with a reusable cloth towel "ribbon".
| But yeah the Dyson driers are better than the heated blowers.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| They used to make the only bagless vacuum cleaners that worked
| well, it is not really the case anymore, probably due to
| patents expiring, but they still the big name brand.
|
| And their bladeless fans, while not really better at moving air
| than regular fans, they are certainly stylish.
|
| I personally think that they make overpriced items and are not
| worth it anymore, but I understand the appeal.
| robga wrote:
| It's a dirty industry (snort!) Howling, germ bellowing airblades
| are a personal dislike of mine.
| https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/25/hand-dryers-...
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