[HN Gopher] Redesigned Notepad for Windows 11
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Redesigned Notepad for Windows 11
        
       Author : sendilkumarn
       Score  : 74 points
       Date   : 2021-12-07 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blogs.windows.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blogs.windows.com)
        
       | neogodless wrote:
       | I hope they put in some way to search Bing using Edge, with no
       | way to change the search provider or browser I use.
        
       | twirlock wrote:
       | So a bunch of shit an amateur dev could have implemented in like
       | half a day.
        
       | avgcorrection wrote:
       | Does it have freaking linewrap?
        
       | melony wrote:
       | They should just open source the consumer level userland apps and
       | outsource the dev work to third party contributors. It would save
       | quite a bit of money.
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | They are really into breaking things that didn't need fixing over
       | the past year or so.
        
       | Bjartr wrote:
       | I understand it's reasonable to be cynical about Windows, but is
       | it really appropriate here[1] when the changes of note are
       | support for dark mode and multiple undo steps? At least wait for
       | someone to find an actual problem.
       | 
       | [1] When I post this, the only other comments are complaints. The
       | ones that are at least complaining about notepad are complaining
       | that MS had the gall to change notepad without pointing to
       | anything specific.
        
         | cr3ative wrote:
         | I think we're all a little nervous after various Edge and
         | Windows updates have either introduced adverts to the UI or
         | even buy-now-pay-later predatory lending. These updates look
         | promising, but MS really should pay attention to the sentiment
         | they're creating around "feature updates" recently.
        
         | divbzero wrote:
         | Multiple undo steps is noteworthy. I have definitely lost text
         | when I forgot Notepad's undo limitation.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Causality1 wrote:
         | I like the feature additions but dislike that there's no visual
         | division between the menu bar and the title bar you can click
         | and drag to manipulate the window. Windows 10 and 11 often make
         | me feel as if I have some disorder of the nervous system as I'm
         | forever clicking just to the side of the interface element I
         | want to use.
        
           | tacotacotaco wrote:
           | Also, Windows 10 removed the window borders so now you have
           | to resize windows by grabbing their shadow. Years later I
           | still regularly misclick.
        
         | selfhoster11 wrote:
         | Notepad had a dark mode (and light mode, and grey mode, and
         | "eye-searing yellow with purple font" mode, if you want) as
         | recently as Windows 7 with the system-wide theme settings, so
         | it's understandable to be sceptical when they bring the dark
         | mode as some sort of a triumph when it's a regression.
        
         | pwdisswordfish9 wrote:
         | > support for dark mode
         | 
         | You mean, a severely bastardized version of functionality that
         | Windows had back in version 3.0?
         | 
         | http://toastytech.com/guis/win30color.png
        
         | iotku wrote:
         | I know there's a lot of different people with different
         | priorities, but people (as a generalization) are complaining
         | about things still being outdated and not supporting dark mode
         | in Windows 11 while simultaneously (although probably a
         | different set of people) are apparently appalled that Microsoft
         | would dare update a legacy application.
         | 
         | Personally I think the best thing Windows 11 has going for it
         | to stand out from more than just being a nicer coat of paint on
         | Windows 10 is removing as much legacy things as possible and
         | update to "modern" standards given they've already put a hard
         | line in the sand regarding modern CPU compatibility.
        
       | high_byte wrote:
       | marginally less suck-ish.
        
       | scoopertrooper wrote:
       | Hacker News: Windows is terrible because the user interface is
       | inconsistent
       | 
       | Microsoft: Okay, we've made a small visual refresh of Notepad so
       | that it's more visually consistent with Windows 11
       | 
       | Hacker News: Stop breaking my childhood!
        
         | ploxiln wrote:
         | There's literally only one poster complaining about the new
         | notepad UI (a brand new account).
         | 
         | It's as much of a meme to see the top post on an HN story is
         | "OMG why are all the top posts such toxic whiners" and scroll
         | down to not see any.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | also for some reason, people really like to complain about HN
           | as though it's a monolith even though a tiny percentage ever
           | comment, let alone complain.
        
             | fartcannon wrote:
             | Also it's possible that two separate complainers have
             | different things to complain about!
             | 
             | Preemptively calling complainers complainers helps quell
             | complaints from fence sitters. It's PR.
        
               | scoopertrooper wrote:
               | Or maybe when I posted this initially there were 5
               | comments, all but one having a moan about the UI.
               | 
               | Nope, must be paid shills.
        
               | fartcannon wrote:
               | Whether or not you're paid PR, the act of preemptively
               | complaining about complainers is PR.
        
               | scoopertrooper wrote:
               | As previously noted, 80% of the comments were negative
               | when I posted it. I was reacting to the 'I hate change
               | brigade' that got in early.
               | 
               | I mean, I don't even use Windows or any Microsoft
               | devices. MacOS is vastly superior to Windows and Bill
               | Gates sexually harassed women in the 90s (not that it
               | factored into my operating system choice).
               | 
               | Real PR machine over here.
        
               | fartcannon wrote:
               | No, you're right, I shouldn't have suggested that. My
               | apologies.
        
         | iand wrote:
         | As if Hacker News is a single homogeneous unit
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | hereforphone wrote:
       | Notepad has been an annoyance for decades. Before I clicked the
       | link I thought there might be enhanced features and reworked
       | usability. Unfortunately the new features fall short. The one
       | they seem proudest of is a dark mode.
        
       | InfiniteRand wrote:
       | I don't really see the selling point of upgrading to Windows 11 -
       | what does it get me, a moderate power user who is moderately set
       | in his ways
        
         | fart32 wrote:
         | I consider myself moderate power user and I'm not going to
         | upgrade until there's a native way of restoring the taskbar to
         | what it used to be on the previous releases. And by that I mean
         | left aligned tabs with text labels. It used to be that way for
         | about 30 years and I can't stand the grouping icons (both the
         | grouping and the icons).
        
       | westcort wrote:
       | Microsoft has not added any functionality to their operating
       | system or applications since 1998-only bloat to keep up with the
       | need to create a need for faster processors. I can't think of one
       | thing I can do in the Microsoft Office suite I couldn't do 20
       | years ago. It's just slower.
        
         | sz4kerto wrote:
         | Collaborative editing?
         | 
         | What have the Romans given us?
        
           | elkos wrote:
           | Wasn't collaborative editing provided by other platforms
           | before Office?
        
         | mdoms wrote:
         | > Microsoft has not added any functionality to their operating
         | system or applications since 1998
         | 
         | This is simply absolute nonsense. Are you really contending
         | that no real functionality has been added to Windows since
         | Windows NT? I know HN loves to hate Microsoft but are we really
         | upvoting this crap?
        
         | dhruvdh wrote:
         | There is a chance that your use case is basic and hasn't
         | changed in 20 years, but I think there is a higher chance of
         | it's a case of general hatred for Microsoft.
         | 
         | > only bloat to keep up with the need to create a need for
         | faster processors.
         | 
         | Do people not see what their feelings towards Microsoft turns
         | them into?
        
           | pomian wrote:
           | Why hate? I don't hate, Microsoft or Office, or anything like
           | that. Those are choices, things. You can't hate things. I
           | agree with this OP that office had all the functionality
           | almost everyone needed twenty years ago. Most of the changes
           | to office have been cosmetic and frustrating to established
           | users. Perhaps their could have been add ons - like in
           | browsers, for more functionality that certain users need,
           | without messing with established work flows and ease of use,
           | which are also important.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | Pedantic: does anyone find the existence of the gear icon very
       | odd (out of place)?
        
       | petilon wrote:
       | This is underwhelming. Textarea in any web application has more
       | features, such as spellcheck, and now in Edge, even grammar
       | check!
       | 
       | Multilevel undo/redo should have been delivered at least 20 years
       | ago.
       | 
       | How about the ability to handle files with Mac or Linux style
       | linebreaks? Wordpad can handle it but not Notepad.
       | 
       | How about showing recent files in File menu?
       | 
       | Really what Microsoft ought to do is to ship VSCode as the new
       | text editor for Windows (after removing all coding features that
       | might confuse end users). Retain the old Notepad for people who
       | use it in established workflows, no point in updating it at this
       | point because it is hopelessly obsolete.
        
       | AHTERIX5000 wrote:
       | I just hope the new version is fast and not like Paint 3D which
       | sometimes spends multiple seconds "creating a new project" when
       | opening a simple PNG on a 5950X.
        
       | keeganjw wrote:
       | Bummer, they didn't add tabs :(
        
       | octopoc wrote:
       | Notepad is a decent editor, lacking only a good operating system
       | to run on.
        
         | hvgk wrote:
         | Was a decent editor.
        
       | okareaman wrote:
       | The greatest thing about Notepad is that it runs and displays a
       | blinking cursor ready for typing in much less than a second for a
       | new document. On my Windows 11 machine it appears to be around
       | 200 msec. I've tried setting my text file handler to other text
       | editors but nothing else comes close to this speed of utility.
       | I'm very glad they are not messing with that.
       | 
       | Overall, I'm very pleased with my Windows 11. Everything is just
       | slightly, but enough, better to make it a good upgrade. That
       | said, I read somewhere that Microsoft intends it to be mostly for
       | new computers. It's not a big loss for a Windows 10 user to stay
       | on 10. It's more of a nicety to upgrade. It's better looking but
       | functionally not much different afaik
        
         | Skunkleton wrote:
         | >I read somewhere that Microsoft intends it to be mostly for
         | new computers.
         | 
         | They are pushing developers to it as well. See new WSL features
         | as an example.
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | TextEdit on macOS is this fast when set to plain text and not
         | reopening previous windows. The entire app is 2.6mb.
         | 
         | Launching with rich text as the default is a bit slower. But
         | hey, rich text.
        
           | lelandfe wrote:
           | Sublime Text, god bless its soul, is right there with it.
           | 
           | And TextEdit is less than half that size if you strip out the
           | translation dicts!
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | kayodelycaon wrote:
             | Sublime Text wasn't as fast to launch on my 12" MacBook
             | (RIP), which is why didn't mention it. TextEdit still
             | pretty much instant.
             | 
             | On my intel 16", Sublime Text 4 is amazingly fast, even
             | with a dozen medium-to-large rails apps open.
        
         | twojacobtwo wrote:
         | Have you tried Notepad++? I just tested it on my system after
         | reading your comment and the difference between Notepad++ and
         | Notepad was barely perceptible (the former being slower by ~0.1
         | seconds, at a guess). It also has a lot of quality of life
         | features that notepad is missing - my favorite is that it auto-
         | saves a cached copy of unsaved documents during shutdown and
         | presents them to you on next open for saving (this doesn't seem
         | to slow start up by any noticeable amount, for the small files
         | I just tested).
        
           | okareaman wrote:
           | Yes, Notepad++ is really great. In my case, I would tend to
           | have a bunch of text files in tabs that slowed loading, so
           | associating 'txt' with it meant I'd have to wait to jot a
           | note down. I could have fixed this by closing all tabs before
           | putting it away, but I'm happier using VS Code for my larger
           | text file needs and good old notepad.exe for quick notes.
        
       | MAGZine wrote:
       | I was a little surprised to learn that my four-year-old processor
       | (i7-7700) was locked out of running windows 11. It's certainly
       | not processor speed issue, it's still plenty fast for games
       | today. It's not TPM either, which it supports. The best I can
       | tell, Microsoft drew a line and said "too bad," for everything
       | before a certain generation.
       | 
       | I really only play games on my computer--I have no idea when I'll
       | upgrade the CPU. The last one lasted nearly a decade before I
       | replaced it. I guess it'll be a while before I see Windows 11.
       | I'm not too mad though--Windows 10 is a fine Operating System.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jenscow wrote:
         | It works on my older CPU (i7-4790K) - I only tried in a VM,
         | however.
        
         | servytor wrote:
         | I would guess it's TPM based on what I have read, even though
         | you say it is not. It's weird the ark page[0] doesn't specify
         | it.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/97128/i...
        
         | calo_star wrote:
         | Maybe it has something to do with Meltdown/Spectre mitigations.
        
         | moth-fuzz wrote:
         | You can still install windows 11 straight from an image and
         | it'll ignore the processor and TPM requirements - they're
         | considered 'soft' requirements even if Microsoft doesn't say so
         | outright. I currently have it running on my desktop with an
         | i7-6700k and my laptop as well with an even older i7 and TPM
         | 1.2.
         | 
         | You're absolutely correct in that they 'drew a line'. They have
         | a specific set of guidelines[0,1] they want CPUs to meet going
         | forward, and it's more of a matter of ceremony and
         | certification rather than anything concrete nor technical.
         | 
         | 0. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
         | hardware/design/com...
         | 
         | 1. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
         | hardware/drivers/de...
        
           | technothrasher wrote:
           | You also can install it by putting the win11 payload onto a
           | win10 install USB stick. Just don't let it have access to the
           | net while it installs or it'll "download install updates"
           | that stop it from continuing. This is how I installed it on
           | my machine that doesn't support TPM.
        
         | jmkni wrote:
         | I wonder if this is because there is a lot of old legacy code
         | in the codebase, specifically for these older processors, they
         | want to remove?
         | 
         | I can see the logic in wanting to make the Windows codebase
         | smaller/leaner/etc by wanting to get rid of the legacy stuff.
        
       | Yizahi wrote:
       | I wish they would just notify us when this Windows 10X v.2
       | cadaver will reach feature parity with Windows 10.
        
       | vq wrote:
       | "Productivity, performance, and reliability are paramount in
       | Notepad. Regardless of how you incorporate Notepad into your
       | workflows, we will ensure that Notepad continues to excel in
       | those areas."
       | 
       | Is this from Microsoft? Is this real?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
         | I don't know why you are being downvoted. I used to use Notepad
         | years ago as it's practically guaranteed to exist on every
         | Windows machine. I can't say much about productivity, but
         | performance was abysmal for larger files. As for reliability,
         | the main reason I never use Notepad now, even for most trivial
         | things, is that Notepad++ will always bring my session back,
         | with all open tabs, regardless of whether I saved the file or
         | not. It doesn't matter if my battery died or Windows decided
         | it's now time to restart the system after updating - Notepad++
         | will keep my work safe and Notepad will not. So speaking about
         | reliability is probably a bigger joke than productivity.
         | 
         | They could say "We always wanted to keep the tool light, fast
         | to start and reasonably efficient for small files, and we have
         | managed to do that" - and this would be OK. There is no need to
         | serve bullshit to a technical community.
        
           | vq wrote:
           | I'm sure the editor is fine for a basic editor that comes
           | with the desktop environment, it looks functional enough, but
           | the language in that article is just weird to me. It reads
           | like some kind of prank.
        
       | lousken wrote:
       | I thought the reason for putting apps into windows store was to
       | make them easily upgradable across versions of windows.
       | 
       | It is here - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/windows-
       | notepad/9msmlrh6lz... so where did that go and why it is not
       | updated on Windows 10? Why is this exclusive to crappy windows
       | 11?
        
       | lucb1e wrote:
       | I was expecting a ribbon or other fluff (like write.exe /
       | WordPad), perhaps even ads (two days ago I saw at a friend's that
       | a Windows built-in game now has ads). Honestly I'm very impressed
       | they kept the simple look. It's just a larger-than-necessary menu
       | bar and some unobtrusive theming and that's it. The toggleable
       | dark mode is also a welcome change for me.
       | 
       | I do assume we can open files larger than a few megabytes now and
       | there were some more functionality issues that seemed very 90s,
       | could it be that there was only one undo step or did they already
       | fix that in a previous release? I truly haven't used Windows in,
       | dare I say, too long.
       | 
       | Edit: yes I did remember the undo problem correctly and that's
       | finally fixed: "adding support for multi-level undo".
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | "with a lot of effort, Microsoft succeeded in adding undo"
       | 
       | not 1987
        
         | melony wrote:
         | If they replace the current high performance codebase inherited
         | from the previous system with a much slower UI people will
         | complain. Not to mention changes in bugs and behavior.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | heh that is true. Even though I suspect notepad.exe to be so
           | naive there's no performance, it's just a visual mmap
        
       | miles wrote:
       | > We know how important Notepad is to so many of your daily
       | workflows...
       | 
       | Perhaps the single funniest line ever penned by Microsoft.
       | 
       | Cannot imagine any "Windows Insiders in the Dev Channel" who use,
       | let alone rely on, Notepad for any serious work.
       | 
       | EDIT: I stand corrected - mea culpa!
        
         | p1necone wrote:
         | I use it for taking quick notes fairly regularly - it's just a
         | blank text input window and it opens immediately.
        
         | sz4kerto wrote:
         | I use it all the time as a temporary scratchpad or clipboard.
         | It opens very quickly, it doesn't have anything else other than
         | a text area. Not sure what else should I use :) VSC? Opens too
         | slow. Sticky notes? Not sure, slow and too complex for the
         | task. Also it's an advantage that it doesn't save the state
         | anywhere so I can just force quit and everything disappears.
         | 
         | I am missing Paint and Notepad on MacOS when I just need
         | something that opens in a millisecond and I can paste in
         | something temporarily.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | Tie any text editor to a hotkey.
        
           | gilleain wrote:
           | notepad++ is a far superior product imo. so many useful
           | features out of the box, and has plugins also.
           | 
           | * search in all opened docs * find/replace with regex * tabs
           | to space * line operations etc
           | 
           | Very useful, and for my workflows on Windows, indispensible
           | (even alongside wsl or powershell)
        
             | Fargren wrote:
             | I use notepad++, but it nags me for updates more often than
             | I would like. If I only need a quick dirty note, notepad is
             | still better.
        
         | enlyth wrote:
         | Most devs I've met use it, it's an excellent tool for getting
         | rid of formatting or just having an instant window open where
         | you can temporarily store some plaintext.
        
           | jenoer wrote:
           | Let me blow your mind: you can use CTRL+SHIFT+V to paste text
           | without formatting.
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | why this late?
       | 
       | when was windows 11 released?
       | 
       | why do they act a small indie company working on a week-end
       | school project?
       | 
       | this is so fishy..
        
         | jenoer wrote:
         | Nothing fishy about it, its proper Quality Assurance using the
         | initial release of Windows 11 as an MVP.
         | 
         | If they'd build preview versions of all tools that Windows (11)
         | contains, then release a new Windows 11 preview build any time
         | a tool receives updates (after community feedback) and ask for
         | more community feedback on all of these releases (probably
         | talking a new Windows 11 version every single day) and release
         | Windows only when all the tools and their changes have been
         | deemed worthy/bug-free it will be 2029.
        
       | josefresco wrote:
       | I use Notepad almost daily to "strip" formatting before pasting
       | content. I hope they don't ever change that ability.
        
         | orev wrote:
         | You might be interested in Pure Text. It's in the Windows App
         | Store and let's you do the same using a shortcut key.
        
         | finger wrote:
         | Ctrl+Shift+V does this as well in many programs.
        
           | josefresco wrote:
           | Thanks! I'll try it out.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | If you are pasting in a browser try Ctrl+Shift+V to remove
         | formatting.
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | From the Linux side of the fence;
       | 
       | Like, why. Why ANY OF THIS. Why a big "important sounding"
       | announcement for something so trivial? Why encourage or tolerate
       | an operating system (slash ecosystem of apps) with such a limited
       | view of choice? Announcements like this really lay bare the
       | collective dumbing down that these centralized ecosystems
       | encourage.
       | 
       | Someone's going to respond with "people don't like thinking about
       | choices for things and just want simplicity," and I will point
       | you to an American grocery store to remind you what utter BS that
       | is. This is monopoly(ish) leveraging, perhaps not at its most
       | harmful, but it's really silly.
        
         | lemmsjid wrote:
         | Not disagreeing with you (often have to preface internet
         | comments with that :) but instead discussing. The grocery store
         | example is quite revealing. Yes, you can point to the American
         | grocery store, but what has been well studied there is that
         | presenting people with choices creates its own form of stress.
         | I certainly feel the stress of going to Whole Foods and wanting
         | cocoa powder and seeing what seems like a thousand variations,
         | versus going to Trader Joe's where there's almost always one
         | brand per item (and often it's the Trader Joe's brand). Whole
         | Foods can be good if there's some niche thing I want, but
         | Trader Joe's is quite relaxing to just have a shopping list and
         | pick up stuff not worrying about comparing each item to a whole
         | bunch of other ones. I believe this was also part of the
         | thinking behind most stores introducing house brands over the
         | last several decades.
         | 
         | Anyhow, this is not some huge announcement. I'm assuming it got
         | voted up in hacker news because there's a humorous element to
         | the whole thing, notepad being one of the more glacially-
         | iterated-but-still-around software systems in existence.
        
         | groby_b wrote:
         | I strongly encourage you to occasionally view the world through
         | more than one lens.
         | 
         | No matter what the OS, the default editor is important. Changes
         | to the default editor that address long standing demands by the
         | community are important. Communicating those changes to a wide
         | audience is important as well. (And the Linux side of the fence
         | could stand to learn a bit about communicating with the wider
         | community)
         | 
         | And that's why that article exists - because a tool used by a
         | large user population just got significantly better. And that
         | user population is mostly happy about the improvement. If
         | you're not the audience, skipping it is an option.
        
           | jrm4 wrote:
           | Oh _please._
           | 
           | So what I'm hearing is, there are changes in software that a
           | lot of people wanted for a long time, but weren't allowed to
           | have for some reason?
           | 
           | If only there were a model of software creation that let you
           | fix that?
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | What you're hearing is clearly what you want to hear, and
             | nothing else.
        
         | okareaman wrote:
         | How many people use Microsoft windows 10? Latest: 1.3 Billion
         | 
         | https://news.microsoft.com/bythenumbers/en/windowsdevices
         | 
         | That, along with the tendency towards Bikeshedding, or
         | Parkinson's law of triviality, means a lot of people care.
         | 
         | Android has a comparable number of users, but I think we should
         | compare desktop PC systems here and in this case, Linux users
         | have much lower expectations of Linux Desktop along with not
         | being nearly as many users.
        
         | 51Cards wrote:
         | When you buy a car are you concerned that it came with
         | manufacturer monopoly provided radio, GPS, seats, tires and a
         | jack? I mean you can go out and get third party versions of all
         | of these things with improved functionality so why should they
         | even include basic versions?
         | 
         | Now how many people actually replace the radio in their car? Or
         | the rims? Or the seats? A vast percentage of owners are very
         | happy with the included version as they don't desire / require
         | anything beyond that. It's not a monopoly, it's just including
         | the basic features most users will be content with.
         | 
         | Now if they forced you to keep Notepad associated with TXT
         | files then we'd have an issue. (I'm looking at you Edge)
         | 
         | (adding a note to address in comments likely coming about how
         | media systems aren't easily replacable in cars anymore but I'm
         | a child of the DIN radio era)
        
           | jrm4 wrote:
           | If I could literally change any of those things in my FOR
           | FREE, INSTANTLY, AT NO MARGINAL COST, AT THE PRESS OF A
           | BUTTON, WITH EASY UNDO then yes I would.
           | 
           | I would also be happy to always help out other people and
           | share my changes with my friends.
           | 
           | And I do this when I can. Guess why I can't, now.
           | 
           | Come ON people.
        
             | recursive wrote:
             | The more you configure stuff, the less it interoperates.
             | That's my experience. Defaults for life.
        
       | jansan wrote:
       | " are also adding support for multi-level undo"
       | 
       | Wow, how advanced. For those of you who did not know, Notepad
       | allowed exactly ONE undo step. ONE! In a frickin text editor.
        
       | blibble wrote:
       | can't wait for the next version which will have an annual
       | subscription cost (or ads)
       | 
       | just like solitaire: https://external-
       | content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs...
        
         | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
         | ...and telemetry!
        
       | TrianguloY wrote:
       | > also adding support for multi-level undo
       | 
       | To think that this feature is "new"...
       | 
       | I know notepad is supposed to be as simple as possible, a very
       | fast default and always available text editor. But single undo is
       | for me the single reason I always install notepad++ if I plan to
       | use the computer in the future, or use Wordpad if not.
        
       | kayson wrote:
       | It bugs me that the toolbar now takes up more vertical space than
       | before. Not only does the padding just look funny, but vertical
       | space is a premium in widescreen layouts! C'mon Microsoft!
        
       | pantaloons wrote:
       | I worked on Windows back in 2014, probably the most surprising
       | thing joining there out of college was looking through the bug
       | database. Every issue that gets complained about online -- and
       | many more -- are in there, and have been for a long time, marked
       | WONTFIX due to a potential compatibility break, lack of priority,
       | or some other policy reason.
       | 
       | I don't know if anyone even owned Notepad or any other older
       | inbox apps like the command prompt, but the issues were pretty
       | well understood and WONTFIXed. Single undo, unicode support, unix
       | LF support, etc, etc.
       | 
       | For Notepad a frustrated engineer had produced a change-set to
       | fix all of them, and it had sat there attached to the bug for
       | some time. It would surface on internal mail threads from time to
       | time as a joke or a bitter reflection on bureaucracy, and if I
       | recall a VP once chimed in to say they had looked at it, and
       | sadly none of it could be committed due to backwards
       | compatibility issues.
       | 
       | Of course the compat issues were real (you could view reports on
       | which obscure apps hooked into this or that internal code of
       | cmd.exe or Notepad and would break), but I always though they
       | served as a nice justification for whichever investments were
       | being made at the time: certainly not Notepad.
       | 
       | It's nice to see the wind change on that, even if it took a
       | decade or two.
        
         | signal11 wrote:
         | I suspect it's a mindset change. Not heeding demand and staying
         | stuck in the past was how Windows became a punchline, although
         | I'm sure enterprise customers loved it. At some point it did
         | begin to change -- I suspect it hasn't changed enough for HN
         | readers.
         | 
         | For instance, Unix LF support was added to Notepad back in 2018
         | (at last!) with a few registry switches for compatibility.[1]
         | 
         | [1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/extended-eol-
         | in-n...
        
         | Osiris wrote:
         | I have an app that has run on every version of Windows from
         | 2000 through Windows 10. It now doesn't work in Windows 11
         | because they didn't reimplement the IDeskBand interface for the
         | taskbar that my app uses to show remaining battery time.
         | 
         | My app is even part of their compatibility test suite (they
         | asked me for permission and a license).
         | 
         | I understand the need to move forward and that BW compatibility
         | can be hinder that, but it's really frustrating for me to 1)
         | respond to thousands of people asking why it doesn't work after
         | they upgrade, and 2) lose income because there's nothing I can
         | do to make it work the same in Windows 11.
        
           | robertoandred wrote:
           | And there's no supported way to show info in the taskbar?
        
           | inetknght wrote:
           | Breaking backwards compatibility is one thing.
           | 
           | Removing functionality is a bigger problem.
        
         | ch_123 wrote:
         | Nitpick: Unix line endings and UTF-8 have been supported in
         | Notepad for the last few years.
         | 
         | See: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-
         | insider/2018/12/10/announc... and
         | https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/extended-eol-in-n...
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | https://xkcd.com/1172/
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | > you could view reports on which obscure apps hooked into this
         | or that internal code of cmd.exe or Notepad and would break
         | 
         | Wait what, external software calls into notepad?
        
           | svieira wrote:
           | Yep - read some of the awesome / horrific horror stories from
           | having too large an API surface area from Raymond Chen here: 
           | https://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780321440303/samplec.
           | ..
           | 
           | Patching other people's binaries, turning off features if the
           | app making the request is "problematic-app", re-introducing
           | bugs, fixing should-be-impossible-to-happen calls from
           | programs that were written by hand, it's all there!
        
           | Serow225 wrote:
           | :) http://kylehalladay.com/blog/2020/05/20/Rendering-With-
           | Notep...
        
             | jodrellblank wrote:
             | Calvin: This is _so_ cool!
             | 
             | Hobbes: This is _so_ stupid.
             | 
             | https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1995/01/01
        
           | hvgk wrote:
           | Surprisingly I actually deal with a fairly hefty integration
           | that does some horrible win32 shit I don't understand after
           | opening notepad to integrate it into their app. There's so
           | much of that out there it's unreal.
        
         | racl101 wrote:
         | I imagine then at least 80% of Excel's bug tracker must have
         | WONTFIX as a designation, cause I tell you, the same fucking
         | bugs seem to come with every release.
        
           | hvgk wrote:
           | I think if they fix them the global finance sector will crash
           | overnight.
        
             | nashashmi wrote:
             | Like when zoom causes text lengths to appear
             | inconsistently?
             | 
             | Or when page resize based on different printers breaks page
             | appearances?
        
       | hvgk wrote:
       | Well that's the one decent remaining bit of windows fucked up.
        
         | seritools wrote:
         | Yep.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29478878
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | It's 2028.
         | 
         | You're done writing a text file and go to save.
         | 
         | It's not there. Where's the save button? Oh, there has been
         | another automatic update. You wonder what you have to do this
         | time. You press Ctrl+S.
         | 
         | The screen locks.
         | 
         | "Microsoft Account is signed out"
         | 
         | Sigh. You enter your password.
         | 
         | "Please verify it's you by saying 'Microsoft Edge is Great!'"
         | 
         | Sigh. "Microsoft Edge is _Great_! "
         | 
         | A Sarcasm Error Has Occurred. Please Say It With Conviction!
         | 
         | "MiCrOSoFt EdGe iS gReAt!"
         | 
         | An acceptable performance! Please rate Notepad in the Microsoft
         | Store to continue!
         | 
         | "1 star"
         | 
         | Why do you hate excellent products? Don't you want a fresh and
         | modern editor? Hypothesis: Did you mean 5 stars? Please don't
         | press the second yes option if you don't not mean this isn't
         | your choice: No, Yes, No, Yes, No, Yes.
         | 
         | Uuh... Third Yes.
         | 
         | Great! Your rating has been corrected to 5 stars! Please verify
         | it's you by saying 'Microsoft Edge is The Greatest And I will
         | Name My Children Microsoft And Edge!'
         | 
         | "MiCrOSoFt EdGe iS gReAtEst And I Will NaMe my ChIlDrEn
         | MiCroSofT AnD EdgE!"
         | 
         | Processing accounts and personal information. Security Alert!
         | Inferior non-microsoft software detected on computer! Do you
         | wish to replace them all with modern microsoft products? [ Yes
         | ] [ Options ]
         | 
         |  _Options_
         | 
         | * [x] Don't Replace The Other Software
         | 
         | * [_] Reverse The Above Option
         | 
         | * [x] Really Keep Other Software
         | 
         | * [x] I'm a cheating bastard
         | 
         | * [x] I'm aware Hitler didn't use Microsoft Edge either
         | 
         | * Security Options *
         | 
         | * [x] Remove browsers not developed by Microsoft
        
           | hvgk wrote:
           | It sounds like you've tried to save a file in Microsoft word
           | recently!
        
         | stnmtn wrote:
         | What about this updates fucks it up?
        
           | hvgk wrote:
           | Gigantic menu bar for the sake of one icon.
           | 
           | Aka "design language"
           | 
           | Aka "bullshit"
        
             | Lendal wrote:
             | This was my observation as well. I haven't used Notepad in
             | so long, I had to open it for comparison. Yes, they've
             | doubled the amount of wasted space, changing one menu item
             | from text to a gear icon.
             | 
             | It's also possible that this is a joke. Nobody that reads
             | dev blogs uses Notepad as part of their mission critical
             | process.
        
             | lucb1e wrote:
             | Assuming you're a Windows or WINE user that uses notepad
             | somewhat regularly, I challenge you to use the new notepad
             | for a month and then try switching back. I'm very curious
             | whether you'll miss more features or be more happy about
             | those five pixels.
             | 
             | I do agree, it's completely unnecessary, but I'm still
             | surprised the "bullshit" is limited to those few pixels of
             | menu bar and some actual problems were fixed instead. (This
             | feeling and this thread really go to show what people
             | expect from the brand.)
        
               | hvgk wrote:
               | I actually use notepad2 when I use windows. Why would I
               | use notepad? Would these changes improve anything? Not
               | really.
               | 
               | My key problem is this is epic bike shedding.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | Then why even the vehement response
        
               | hvgk wrote:
               | Because I dumped the platform because of the real issues
               | while they were painting it a different colour and
               | rearranging the deck chairs.
               | 
               | It deserves critical attitudes directed at it.
        
       | cosmotic wrote:
       | That 'redesigned find and replace experience' covers the text in
       | the same way the old notepad did, but the old notepad you could
       | move the window.
       | 
       | I could have sworn it would have supported dark mode too. Was the
       | old notepad using WHITE instead of the system window background
       | color all that time?
        
       | ng-user wrote:
       | It's crazy to me that Windows 11 has already been released and
       | yet they're still adding what should be core functionality to the
       | OS as an after thought.
       | 
       | If they are so set on redesigning Notepad and/or all system apps
       | to use the new design style, why would those not be prioritized
       | and included in the original release from day 1?
        
         | cmckn wrote:
         | I'm not sure a slight refresh of the Notepad UI is core
         | functionality of the OS. I don't like Windows, I actually quite
         | despise it, but I think the rolling release approach is far
         | better than, say, macOS' yearly dump. You end up with features
         | that are half-baked or pushed to the next year. Microsoft is
         | taking a saner approach with Windows releases, IMHO.
        
         | KptMarchewa wrote:
         | It's not crazy. We don't live in age of physical distribution.
         | 
         | When fix or feature is ready, it's moment to distribute it.
         | 
         | It's way better than Apple style feature hoarding to pad yearly
         | OS release changelog with application fluff.
        
         | Scharkenberg wrote:
         | Of course, it would be nice if every program ever were nearly
         | perfect upon release, but that isn't necessarily a realistic
         | expectation in every scenario. If it can be updated via the
         | Store (which is the case with Notepad and many other
         | utilities), it doesn't have to be tied to the OS release
         | cadence. In this aspect, modern Windows is more like rolling-
         | release desktop Linux distros than macOS.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | Notepad is core OS functionality? I think not.
        
           | valenaut wrote:
           | For Windows I would say it is. Windows doesn't come with vi,
           | nano, or any other terminal text editor, and some kind of
           | text editor is needed for pretty much anything you would do
           | with a computer.
        
             | elkos wrote:
             | I doubt this is the paradigm that Microsoft would like to
             | promote. Interestingly, my limited interactions will
             | Windows 10 I haven't had the chance or need to use a text
             | editor.
        
             | hvgk wrote:
             | Err but powershell ISE ships with it.
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | I think so. How else are you supposed to edit a config file?
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | Better notepad then controlpanel ;)
        
       | seritools wrote:
       | 10 minute QA because they don't seem to have done it:
       | 
       | - It consistently starts slower than Notepad3 while having
       | substantially fewer features to load (and also slower than the
       | old Notepad of course)
       | 
       | - THEY ANIMATED THE SCROLLING OMG PLEASE DONT DO THIS (especially
       | when grabbing the scroll bar handle). Any amount of delay is too
       | much in notepad
       | 
       | - the animation runs at 60Hz even on a high refresh rate screen,
       | so it looks choppy
       | 
       | - the animation has to "catch up" when grabbing the scroll bar
       | handle and moving it quickly
       | 
       | - 215k lines loaded, _moving the window itself_ is choppy now?
       | HOW
       | 
       | - another first party piece of software that ignores the "no
       | animations" setting in windows
       | 
       | - I've grabbed a notepad.exe from Windows XP SP3 in comparison,
       | no problems there, scrolling and editing is instant. Both have
       | SIGNIFICANT lag in the new one.
       | 
       | - Don't even try to resize the window with a big file open (< 1
       | FPS)
       | 
       | EDIT: Note that I haven't even complained about new features or
       | anything, just the previous, basic features still working
       | correctly.
        
       | auvi wrote:
       | can you choose line endings as LF not CRLF in Notepad?
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | You can already do that in Win10 today.
        
         | kymaz wrote:
         | That would be a great win for improving linux compatibility!
        
       | zingmars wrote:
       | This is nice. I run dark mode everywhere and I used to use
       | notepad for quick notes and stuff. Problem is that notepad is a
       | giant wide window so it would burn my eyes out when opened, so I
       | had to switch to something else. Now I can use it for that
       | purpose again... Providing I move to Win11 that is. Still not a
       | fan of the task bar lacking features I use a lot.
        
       | CivBase wrote:
       | Here's a few features I'd like to see for Notepad which I don't
       | think would compromise its performance or minimalist design:
       | - multi-cursor support       - tab to indent selection       -
       | encoding selection       - fully controllable with hotkeys
       | - [optional] line numbers       - [optional] visible whitespace
       | characters       - [optional] column ruler       - [optional]
       | spaces instead of tabs       - [optional] unix-style line breaks
        
       | kgwxd wrote:
       | I assume it will be at least as slow to load as the redesigned
       | Calculator, and bug me to rate it Microsoft Store every now and
       | then.
        
         | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
         | Yeah, the changes seem ok otherwise, but based on every other
         | application Microsoft has updated with a new look & feel I'd
         | have to agree: it'll take longer to launch, use more resources,
         | and have worse input response times.
        
         | koyote wrote:
         | Out of curiosity I just opened up the new Calculator. It took
         | around 150ms to load (at a guess, it was pretty much instant).
         | 
         | How slow is it on your machine?? I've also not had it ask me to
         | rate it on the store. I don't think it even exists on the
         | store.
        
           | badsectoracula wrote:
           | Since you guessed it instead of somehow measured it (i think
           | you'd need a very high framerate camera to measure the time
           | between click and app appearing to do that) perhaps it isn't
           | that it is fast but you're just not sensitive to such small
           | delays?
        
             | koyote wrote:
             | Possibly. Maybe I remember the 'good old days' too fondly:
             | where opening any kind of application would take upwards of
             | 5 seconds and often into the minutes for something large
             | like Word :)
             | 
             | For me anything that loads before I even have the time to
             | think about the fact that it's loading would not be
             | considered 'slow'.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-12-07 23:01 UTC)