[HN Gopher] Redesigned Notepad for Windows 11
___________________________________________________________________
Redesigned Notepad for Windows 11
Author : sendilkumarn
Score : 74 points
Date : 2021-12-07 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blogs.windows.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blogs.windows.com)
| neogodless wrote:
| I hope they put in some way to search Bing using Edge, with no
| way to change the search provider or browser I use.
| twirlock wrote:
| So a bunch of shit an amateur dev could have implemented in like
| half a day.
| avgcorrection wrote:
| Does it have freaking linewrap?
| melony wrote:
| They should just open source the consumer level userland apps and
| outsource the dev work to third party contributors. It would save
| quite a bit of money.
| thrower123 wrote:
| They are really into breaking things that didn't need fixing over
| the past year or so.
| Bjartr wrote:
| I understand it's reasonable to be cynical about Windows, but is
| it really appropriate here[1] when the changes of note are
| support for dark mode and multiple undo steps? At least wait for
| someone to find an actual problem.
|
| [1] When I post this, the only other comments are complaints. The
| ones that are at least complaining about notepad are complaining
| that MS had the gall to change notepad without pointing to
| anything specific.
| cr3ative wrote:
| I think we're all a little nervous after various Edge and
| Windows updates have either introduced adverts to the UI or
| even buy-now-pay-later predatory lending. These updates look
| promising, but MS really should pay attention to the sentiment
| they're creating around "feature updates" recently.
| divbzero wrote:
| Multiple undo steps is noteworthy. I have definitely lost text
| when I forgot Notepad's undo limitation.
| [deleted]
| Causality1 wrote:
| I like the feature additions but dislike that there's no visual
| division between the menu bar and the title bar you can click
| and drag to manipulate the window. Windows 10 and 11 often make
| me feel as if I have some disorder of the nervous system as I'm
| forever clicking just to the side of the interface element I
| want to use.
| tacotacotaco wrote:
| Also, Windows 10 removed the window borders so now you have
| to resize windows by grabbing their shadow. Years later I
| still regularly misclick.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| Notepad had a dark mode (and light mode, and grey mode, and
| "eye-searing yellow with purple font" mode, if you want) as
| recently as Windows 7 with the system-wide theme settings, so
| it's understandable to be sceptical when they bring the dark
| mode as some sort of a triumph when it's a regression.
| pwdisswordfish9 wrote:
| > support for dark mode
|
| You mean, a severely bastardized version of functionality that
| Windows had back in version 3.0?
|
| http://toastytech.com/guis/win30color.png
| iotku wrote:
| I know there's a lot of different people with different
| priorities, but people (as a generalization) are complaining
| about things still being outdated and not supporting dark mode
| in Windows 11 while simultaneously (although probably a
| different set of people) are apparently appalled that Microsoft
| would dare update a legacy application.
|
| Personally I think the best thing Windows 11 has going for it
| to stand out from more than just being a nicer coat of paint on
| Windows 10 is removing as much legacy things as possible and
| update to "modern" standards given they've already put a hard
| line in the sand regarding modern CPU compatibility.
| high_byte wrote:
| marginally less suck-ish.
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| Hacker News: Windows is terrible because the user interface is
| inconsistent
|
| Microsoft: Okay, we've made a small visual refresh of Notepad so
| that it's more visually consistent with Windows 11
|
| Hacker News: Stop breaking my childhood!
| ploxiln wrote:
| There's literally only one poster complaining about the new
| notepad UI (a brand new account).
|
| It's as much of a meme to see the top post on an HN story is
| "OMG why are all the top posts such toxic whiners" and scroll
| down to not see any.
| freedomben wrote:
| also for some reason, people really like to complain about HN
| as though it's a monolith even though a tiny percentage ever
| comment, let alone complain.
| fartcannon wrote:
| Also it's possible that two separate complainers have
| different things to complain about!
|
| Preemptively calling complainers complainers helps quell
| complaints from fence sitters. It's PR.
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| Or maybe when I posted this initially there were 5
| comments, all but one having a moan about the UI.
|
| Nope, must be paid shills.
| fartcannon wrote:
| Whether or not you're paid PR, the act of preemptively
| complaining about complainers is PR.
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| As previously noted, 80% of the comments were negative
| when I posted it. I was reacting to the 'I hate change
| brigade' that got in early.
|
| I mean, I don't even use Windows or any Microsoft
| devices. MacOS is vastly superior to Windows and Bill
| Gates sexually harassed women in the 90s (not that it
| factored into my operating system choice).
|
| Real PR machine over here.
| fartcannon wrote:
| No, you're right, I shouldn't have suggested that. My
| apologies.
| iand wrote:
| As if Hacker News is a single homogeneous unit
| [deleted]
| hereforphone wrote:
| Notepad has been an annoyance for decades. Before I clicked the
| link I thought there might be enhanced features and reworked
| usability. Unfortunately the new features fall short. The one
| they seem proudest of is a dark mode.
| InfiniteRand wrote:
| I don't really see the selling point of upgrading to Windows 11 -
| what does it get me, a moderate power user who is moderately set
| in his ways
| fart32 wrote:
| I consider myself moderate power user and I'm not going to
| upgrade until there's a native way of restoring the taskbar to
| what it used to be on the previous releases. And by that I mean
| left aligned tabs with text labels. It used to be that way for
| about 30 years and I can't stand the grouping icons (both the
| grouping and the icons).
| westcort wrote:
| Microsoft has not added any functionality to their operating
| system or applications since 1998-only bloat to keep up with the
| need to create a need for faster processors. I can't think of one
| thing I can do in the Microsoft Office suite I couldn't do 20
| years ago. It's just slower.
| sz4kerto wrote:
| Collaborative editing?
|
| What have the Romans given us?
| elkos wrote:
| Wasn't collaborative editing provided by other platforms
| before Office?
| mdoms wrote:
| > Microsoft has not added any functionality to their operating
| system or applications since 1998
|
| This is simply absolute nonsense. Are you really contending
| that no real functionality has been added to Windows since
| Windows NT? I know HN loves to hate Microsoft but are we really
| upvoting this crap?
| dhruvdh wrote:
| There is a chance that your use case is basic and hasn't
| changed in 20 years, but I think there is a higher chance of
| it's a case of general hatred for Microsoft.
|
| > only bloat to keep up with the need to create a need for
| faster processors.
|
| Do people not see what their feelings towards Microsoft turns
| them into?
| pomian wrote:
| Why hate? I don't hate, Microsoft or Office, or anything like
| that. Those are choices, things. You can't hate things. I
| agree with this OP that office had all the functionality
| almost everyone needed twenty years ago. Most of the changes
| to office have been cosmetic and frustrating to established
| users. Perhaps their could have been add ons - like in
| browsers, for more functionality that certain users need,
| without messing with established work flows and ease of use,
| which are also important.
| [deleted]
| alberth wrote:
| Pedantic: does anyone find the existence of the gear icon very
| odd (out of place)?
| petilon wrote:
| This is underwhelming. Textarea in any web application has more
| features, such as spellcheck, and now in Edge, even grammar
| check!
|
| Multilevel undo/redo should have been delivered at least 20 years
| ago.
|
| How about the ability to handle files with Mac or Linux style
| linebreaks? Wordpad can handle it but not Notepad.
|
| How about showing recent files in File menu?
|
| Really what Microsoft ought to do is to ship VSCode as the new
| text editor for Windows (after removing all coding features that
| might confuse end users). Retain the old Notepad for people who
| use it in established workflows, no point in updating it at this
| point because it is hopelessly obsolete.
| AHTERIX5000 wrote:
| I just hope the new version is fast and not like Paint 3D which
| sometimes spends multiple seconds "creating a new project" when
| opening a simple PNG on a 5950X.
| keeganjw wrote:
| Bummer, they didn't add tabs :(
| octopoc wrote:
| Notepad is a decent editor, lacking only a good operating system
| to run on.
| hvgk wrote:
| Was a decent editor.
| okareaman wrote:
| The greatest thing about Notepad is that it runs and displays a
| blinking cursor ready for typing in much less than a second for a
| new document. On my Windows 11 machine it appears to be around
| 200 msec. I've tried setting my text file handler to other text
| editors but nothing else comes close to this speed of utility.
| I'm very glad they are not messing with that.
|
| Overall, I'm very pleased with my Windows 11. Everything is just
| slightly, but enough, better to make it a good upgrade. That
| said, I read somewhere that Microsoft intends it to be mostly for
| new computers. It's not a big loss for a Windows 10 user to stay
| on 10. It's more of a nicety to upgrade. It's better looking but
| functionally not much different afaik
| Skunkleton wrote:
| >I read somewhere that Microsoft intends it to be mostly for
| new computers.
|
| They are pushing developers to it as well. See new WSL features
| as an example.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| TextEdit on macOS is this fast when set to plain text and not
| reopening previous windows. The entire app is 2.6mb.
|
| Launching with rich text as the default is a bit slower. But
| hey, rich text.
| lelandfe wrote:
| Sublime Text, god bless its soul, is right there with it.
|
| And TextEdit is less than half that size if you strip out the
| translation dicts!
| [deleted]
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Sublime Text wasn't as fast to launch on my 12" MacBook
| (RIP), which is why didn't mention it. TextEdit still
| pretty much instant.
|
| On my intel 16", Sublime Text 4 is amazingly fast, even
| with a dozen medium-to-large rails apps open.
| twojacobtwo wrote:
| Have you tried Notepad++? I just tested it on my system after
| reading your comment and the difference between Notepad++ and
| Notepad was barely perceptible (the former being slower by ~0.1
| seconds, at a guess). It also has a lot of quality of life
| features that notepad is missing - my favorite is that it auto-
| saves a cached copy of unsaved documents during shutdown and
| presents them to you on next open for saving (this doesn't seem
| to slow start up by any noticeable amount, for the small files
| I just tested).
| okareaman wrote:
| Yes, Notepad++ is really great. In my case, I would tend to
| have a bunch of text files in tabs that slowed loading, so
| associating 'txt' with it meant I'd have to wait to jot a
| note down. I could have fixed this by closing all tabs before
| putting it away, but I'm happier using VS Code for my larger
| text file needs and good old notepad.exe for quick notes.
| MAGZine wrote:
| I was a little surprised to learn that my four-year-old processor
| (i7-7700) was locked out of running windows 11. It's certainly
| not processor speed issue, it's still plenty fast for games
| today. It's not TPM either, which it supports. The best I can
| tell, Microsoft drew a line and said "too bad," for everything
| before a certain generation.
|
| I really only play games on my computer--I have no idea when I'll
| upgrade the CPU. The last one lasted nearly a decade before I
| replaced it. I guess it'll be a while before I see Windows 11.
| I'm not too mad though--Windows 10 is a fine Operating System.
| [deleted]
| jenscow wrote:
| It works on my older CPU (i7-4790K) - I only tried in a VM,
| however.
| servytor wrote:
| I would guess it's TPM based on what I have read, even though
| you say it is not. It's weird the ark page[0] doesn't specify
| it.
|
| [0]:
| https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/97128/i...
| calo_star wrote:
| Maybe it has something to do with Meltdown/Spectre mitigations.
| moth-fuzz wrote:
| You can still install windows 11 straight from an image and
| it'll ignore the processor and TPM requirements - they're
| considered 'soft' requirements even if Microsoft doesn't say so
| outright. I currently have it running on my desktop with an
| i7-6700k and my laptop as well with an even older i7 and TPM
| 1.2.
|
| You're absolutely correct in that they 'drew a line'. They have
| a specific set of guidelines[0,1] they want CPUs to meet going
| forward, and it's more of a matter of ceremony and
| certification rather than anything concrete nor technical.
|
| 0. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
| hardware/design/com...
|
| 1. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
| hardware/drivers/de...
| technothrasher wrote:
| You also can install it by putting the win11 payload onto a
| win10 install USB stick. Just don't let it have access to the
| net while it installs or it'll "download install updates"
| that stop it from continuing. This is how I installed it on
| my machine that doesn't support TPM.
| jmkni wrote:
| I wonder if this is because there is a lot of old legacy code
| in the codebase, specifically for these older processors, they
| want to remove?
|
| I can see the logic in wanting to make the Windows codebase
| smaller/leaner/etc by wanting to get rid of the legacy stuff.
| Yizahi wrote:
| I wish they would just notify us when this Windows 10X v.2
| cadaver will reach feature parity with Windows 10.
| vq wrote:
| "Productivity, performance, and reliability are paramount in
| Notepad. Regardless of how you incorporate Notepad into your
| workflows, we will ensure that Notepad continues to excel in
| those areas."
|
| Is this from Microsoft? Is this real?
| [deleted]
| hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
| I don't know why you are being downvoted. I used to use Notepad
| years ago as it's practically guaranteed to exist on every
| Windows machine. I can't say much about productivity, but
| performance was abysmal for larger files. As for reliability,
| the main reason I never use Notepad now, even for most trivial
| things, is that Notepad++ will always bring my session back,
| with all open tabs, regardless of whether I saved the file or
| not. It doesn't matter if my battery died or Windows decided
| it's now time to restart the system after updating - Notepad++
| will keep my work safe and Notepad will not. So speaking about
| reliability is probably a bigger joke than productivity.
|
| They could say "We always wanted to keep the tool light, fast
| to start and reasonably efficient for small files, and we have
| managed to do that" - and this would be OK. There is no need to
| serve bullshit to a technical community.
| vq wrote:
| I'm sure the editor is fine for a basic editor that comes
| with the desktop environment, it looks functional enough, but
| the language in that article is just weird to me. It reads
| like some kind of prank.
| lousken wrote:
| I thought the reason for putting apps into windows store was to
| make them easily upgradable across versions of windows.
|
| It is here - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/windows-
| notepad/9msmlrh6lz... so where did that go and why it is not
| updated on Windows 10? Why is this exclusive to crappy windows
| 11?
| lucb1e wrote:
| I was expecting a ribbon or other fluff (like write.exe /
| WordPad), perhaps even ads (two days ago I saw at a friend's that
| a Windows built-in game now has ads). Honestly I'm very impressed
| they kept the simple look. It's just a larger-than-necessary menu
| bar and some unobtrusive theming and that's it. The toggleable
| dark mode is also a welcome change for me.
|
| I do assume we can open files larger than a few megabytes now and
| there were some more functionality issues that seemed very 90s,
| could it be that there was only one undo step or did they already
| fix that in a previous release? I truly haven't used Windows in,
| dare I say, too long.
|
| Edit: yes I did remember the undo problem correctly and that's
| finally fixed: "adding support for multi-level undo".
| agumonkey wrote:
| "with a lot of effort, Microsoft succeeded in adding undo"
|
| not 1987
| melony wrote:
| If they replace the current high performance codebase inherited
| from the previous system with a much slower UI people will
| complain. Not to mention changes in bugs and behavior.
| agumonkey wrote:
| heh that is true. Even though I suspect notepad.exe to be so
| naive there's no performance, it's just a visual mmap
| miles wrote:
| > We know how important Notepad is to so many of your daily
| workflows...
|
| Perhaps the single funniest line ever penned by Microsoft.
|
| Cannot imagine any "Windows Insiders in the Dev Channel" who use,
| let alone rely on, Notepad for any serious work.
|
| EDIT: I stand corrected - mea culpa!
| p1necone wrote:
| I use it for taking quick notes fairly regularly - it's just a
| blank text input window and it opens immediately.
| sz4kerto wrote:
| I use it all the time as a temporary scratchpad or clipboard.
| It opens very quickly, it doesn't have anything else other than
| a text area. Not sure what else should I use :) VSC? Opens too
| slow. Sticky notes? Not sure, slow and too complex for the
| task. Also it's an advantage that it doesn't save the state
| anywhere so I can just force quit and everything disappears.
|
| I am missing Paint and Notepad on MacOS when I just need
| something that opens in a millisecond and I can paste in
| something temporarily.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Tie any text editor to a hotkey.
| gilleain wrote:
| notepad++ is a far superior product imo. so many useful
| features out of the box, and has plugins also.
|
| * search in all opened docs * find/replace with regex * tabs
| to space * line operations etc
|
| Very useful, and for my workflows on Windows, indispensible
| (even alongside wsl or powershell)
| Fargren wrote:
| I use notepad++, but it nags me for updates more often than
| I would like. If I only need a quick dirty note, notepad is
| still better.
| enlyth wrote:
| Most devs I've met use it, it's an excellent tool for getting
| rid of formatting or just having an instant window open where
| you can temporarily store some plaintext.
| jenoer wrote:
| Let me blow your mind: you can use CTRL+SHIFT+V to paste text
| without formatting.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| why this late?
|
| when was windows 11 released?
|
| why do they act a small indie company working on a week-end
| school project?
|
| this is so fishy..
| jenoer wrote:
| Nothing fishy about it, its proper Quality Assurance using the
| initial release of Windows 11 as an MVP.
|
| If they'd build preview versions of all tools that Windows (11)
| contains, then release a new Windows 11 preview build any time
| a tool receives updates (after community feedback) and ask for
| more community feedback on all of these releases (probably
| talking a new Windows 11 version every single day) and release
| Windows only when all the tools and their changes have been
| deemed worthy/bug-free it will be 2029.
| josefresco wrote:
| I use Notepad almost daily to "strip" formatting before pasting
| content. I hope they don't ever change that ability.
| orev wrote:
| You might be interested in Pure Text. It's in the Windows App
| Store and let's you do the same using a shortcut key.
| finger wrote:
| Ctrl+Shift+V does this as well in many programs.
| josefresco wrote:
| Thanks! I'll try it out.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| If you are pasting in a browser try Ctrl+Shift+V to remove
| formatting.
| jrm4 wrote:
| From the Linux side of the fence;
|
| Like, why. Why ANY OF THIS. Why a big "important sounding"
| announcement for something so trivial? Why encourage or tolerate
| an operating system (slash ecosystem of apps) with such a limited
| view of choice? Announcements like this really lay bare the
| collective dumbing down that these centralized ecosystems
| encourage.
|
| Someone's going to respond with "people don't like thinking about
| choices for things and just want simplicity," and I will point
| you to an American grocery store to remind you what utter BS that
| is. This is monopoly(ish) leveraging, perhaps not at its most
| harmful, but it's really silly.
| lemmsjid wrote:
| Not disagreeing with you (often have to preface internet
| comments with that :) but instead discussing. The grocery store
| example is quite revealing. Yes, you can point to the American
| grocery store, but what has been well studied there is that
| presenting people with choices creates its own form of stress.
| I certainly feel the stress of going to Whole Foods and wanting
| cocoa powder and seeing what seems like a thousand variations,
| versus going to Trader Joe's where there's almost always one
| brand per item (and often it's the Trader Joe's brand). Whole
| Foods can be good if there's some niche thing I want, but
| Trader Joe's is quite relaxing to just have a shopping list and
| pick up stuff not worrying about comparing each item to a whole
| bunch of other ones. I believe this was also part of the
| thinking behind most stores introducing house brands over the
| last several decades.
|
| Anyhow, this is not some huge announcement. I'm assuming it got
| voted up in hacker news because there's a humorous element to
| the whole thing, notepad being one of the more glacially-
| iterated-but-still-around software systems in existence.
| groby_b wrote:
| I strongly encourage you to occasionally view the world through
| more than one lens.
|
| No matter what the OS, the default editor is important. Changes
| to the default editor that address long standing demands by the
| community are important. Communicating those changes to a wide
| audience is important as well. (And the Linux side of the fence
| could stand to learn a bit about communicating with the wider
| community)
|
| And that's why that article exists - because a tool used by a
| large user population just got significantly better. And that
| user population is mostly happy about the improvement. If
| you're not the audience, skipping it is an option.
| jrm4 wrote:
| Oh _please._
|
| So what I'm hearing is, there are changes in software that a
| lot of people wanted for a long time, but weren't allowed to
| have for some reason?
|
| If only there were a model of software creation that let you
| fix that?
| groby_b wrote:
| What you're hearing is clearly what you want to hear, and
| nothing else.
| okareaman wrote:
| How many people use Microsoft windows 10? Latest: 1.3 Billion
|
| https://news.microsoft.com/bythenumbers/en/windowsdevices
|
| That, along with the tendency towards Bikeshedding, or
| Parkinson's law of triviality, means a lot of people care.
|
| Android has a comparable number of users, but I think we should
| compare desktop PC systems here and in this case, Linux users
| have much lower expectations of Linux Desktop along with not
| being nearly as many users.
| 51Cards wrote:
| When you buy a car are you concerned that it came with
| manufacturer monopoly provided radio, GPS, seats, tires and a
| jack? I mean you can go out and get third party versions of all
| of these things with improved functionality so why should they
| even include basic versions?
|
| Now how many people actually replace the radio in their car? Or
| the rims? Or the seats? A vast percentage of owners are very
| happy with the included version as they don't desire / require
| anything beyond that. It's not a monopoly, it's just including
| the basic features most users will be content with.
|
| Now if they forced you to keep Notepad associated with TXT
| files then we'd have an issue. (I'm looking at you Edge)
|
| (adding a note to address in comments likely coming about how
| media systems aren't easily replacable in cars anymore but I'm
| a child of the DIN radio era)
| jrm4 wrote:
| If I could literally change any of those things in my FOR
| FREE, INSTANTLY, AT NO MARGINAL COST, AT THE PRESS OF A
| BUTTON, WITH EASY UNDO then yes I would.
|
| I would also be happy to always help out other people and
| share my changes with my friends.
|
| And I do this when I can. Guess why I can't, now.
|
| Come ON people.
| recursive wrote:
| The more you configure stuff, the less it interoperates.
| That's my experience. Defaults for life.
| jansan wrote:
| " are also adding support for multi-level undo"
|
| Wow, how advanced. For those of you who did not know, Notepad
| allowed exactly ONE undo step. ONE! In a frickin text editor.
| blibble wrote:
| can't wait for the next version which will have an annual
| subscription cost (or ads)
|
| just like solitaire: https://external-
| content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs...
| kwertyoowiyop wrote:
| ...and telemetry!
| TrianguloY wrote:
| > also adding support for multi-level undo
|
| To think that this feature is "new"...
|
| I know notepad is supposed to be as simple as possible, a very
| fast default and always available text editor. But single undo is
| for me the single reason I always install notepad++ if I plan to
| use the computer in the future, or use Wordpad if not.
| kayson wrote:
| It bugs me that the toolbar now takes up more vertical space than
| before. Not only does the padding just look funny, but vertical
| space is a premium in widescreen layouts! C'mon Microsoft!
| pantaloons wrote:
| I worked on Windows back in 2014, probably the most surprising
| thing joining there out of college was looking through the bug
| database. Every issue that gets complained about online -- and
| many more -- are in there, and have been for a long time, marked
| WONTFIX due to a potential compatibility break, lack of priority,
| or some other policy reason.
|
| I don't know if anyone even owned Notepad or any other older
| inbox apps like the command prompt, but the issues were pretty
| well understood and WONTFIXed. Single undo, unicode support, unix
| LF support, etc, etc.
|
| For Notepad a frustrated engineer had produced a change-set to
| fix all of them, and it had sat there attached to the bug for
| some time. It would surface on internal mail threads from time to
| time as a joke or a bitter reflection on bureaucracy, and if I
| recall a VP once chimed in to say they had looked at it, and
| sadly none of it could be committed due to backwards
| compatibility issues.
|
| Of course the compat issues were real (you could view reports on
| which obscure apps hooked into this or that internal code of
| cmd.exe or Notepad and would break), but I always though they
| served as a nice justification for whichever investments were
| being made at the time: certainly not Notepad.
|
| It's nice to see the wind change on that, even if it took a
| decade or two.
| signal11 wrote:
| I suspect it's a mindset change. Not heeding demand and staying
| stuck in the past was how Windows became a punchline, although
| I'm sure enterprise customers loved it. At some point it did
| begin to change -- I suspect it hasn't changed enough for HN
| readers.
|
| For instance, Unix LF support was added to Notepad back in 2018
| (at last!) with a few registry switches for compatibility.[1]
|
| [1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/extended-eol-
| in-n...
| Osiris wrote:
| I have an app that has run on every version of Windows from
| 2000 through Windows 10. It now doesn't work in Windows 11
| because they didn't reimplement the IDeskBand interface for the
| taskbar that my app uses to show remaining battery time.
|
| My app is even part of their compatibility test suite (they
| asked me for permission and a license).
|
| I understand the need to move forward and that BW compatibility
| can be hinder that, but it's really frustrating for me to 1)
| respond to thousands of people asking why it doesn't work after
| they upgrade, and 2) lose income because there's nothing I can
| do to make it work the same in Windows 11.
| robertoandred wrote:
| And there's no supported way to show info in the taskbar?
| inetknght wrote:
| Breaking backwards compatibility is one thing.
|
| Removing functionality is a bigger problem.
| ch_123 wrote:
| Nitpick: Unix line endings and UTF-8 have been supported in
| Notepad for the last few years.
|
| See: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-
| insider/2018/12/10/announc... and
| https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/extended-eol-in-n...
| the-dude wrote:
| https://xkcd.com/1172/
| MisterTea wrote:
| > you could view reports on which obscure apps hooked into this
| or that internal code of cmd.exe or Notepad and would break
|
| Wait what, external software calls into notepad?
| svieira wrote:
| Yep - read some of the awesome / horrific horror stories from
| having too large an API surface area from Raymond Chen here:
| https://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780321440303/samplec.
| ..
|
| Patching other people's binaries, turning off features if the
| app making the request is "problematic-app", re-introducing
| bugs, fixing should-be-impossible-to-happen calls from
| programs that were written by hand, it's all there!
| Serow225 wrote:
| :) http://kylehalladay.com/blog/2020/05/20/Rendering-With-
| Notep...
| jodrellblank wrote:
| Calvin: This is _so_ cool!
|
| Hobbes: This is _so_ stupid.
|
| https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1995/01/01
| hvgk wrote:
| Surprisingly I actually deal with a fairly hefty integration
| that does some horrible win32 shit I don't understand after
| opening notepad to integrate it into their app. There's so
| much of that out there it's unreal.
| racl101 wrote:
| I imagine then at least 80% of Excel's bug tracker must have
| WONTFIX as a designation, cause I tell you, the same fucking
| bugs seem to come with every release.
| hvgk wrote:
| I think if they fix them the global finance sector will crash
| overnight.
| nashashmi wrote:
| Like when zoom causes text lengths to appear
| inconsistently?
|
| Or when page resize based on different printers breaks page
| appearances?
| hvgk wrote:
| Well that's the one decent remaining bit of windows fucked up.
| seritools wrote:
| Yep.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29478878
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| It's 2028.
|
| You're done writing a text file and go to save.
|
| It's not there. Where's the save button? Oh, there has been
| another automatic update. You wonder what you have to do this
| time. You press Ctrl+S.
|
| The screen locks.
|
| "Microsoft Account is signed out"
|
| Sigh. You enter your password.
|
| "Please verify it's you by saying 'Microsoft Edge is Great!'"
|
| Sigh. "Microsoft Edge is _Great_! "
|
| A Sarcasm Error Has Occurred. Please Say It With Conviction!
|
| "MiCrOSoFt EdGe iS gReAt!"
|
| An acceptable performance! Please rate Notepad in the Microsoft
| Store to continue!
|
| "1 star"
|
| Why do you hate excellent products? Don't you want a fresh and
| modern editor? Hypothesis: Did you mean 5 stars? Please don't
| press the second yes option if you don't not mean this isn't
| your choice: No, Yes, No, Yes, No, Yes.
|
| Uuh... Third Yes.
|
| Great! Your rating has been corrected to 5 stars! Please verify
| it's you by saying 'Microsoft Edge is The Greatest And I will
| Name My Children Microsoft And Edge!'
|
| "MiCrOSoFt EdGe iS gReAtEst And I Will NaMe my ChIlDrEn
| MiCroSofT AnD EdgE!"
|
| Processing accounts and personal information. Security Alert!
| Inferior non-microsoft software detected on computer! Do you
| wish to replace them all with modern microsoft products? [ Yes
| ] [ Options ]
|
| _Options_
|
| * [x] Don't Replace The Other Software
|
| * [_] Reverse The Above Option
|
| * [x] Really Keep Other Software
|
| * [x] I'm a cheating bastard
|
| * [x] I'm aware Hitler didn't use Microsoft Edge either
|
| * Security Options *
|
| * [x] Remove browsers not developed by Microsoft
| hvgk wrote:
| It sounds like you've tried to save a file in Microsoft word
| recently!
| stnmtn wrote:
| What about this updates fucks it up?
| hvgk wrote:
| Gigantic menu bar for the sake of one icon.
|
| Aka "design language"
|
| Aka "bullshit"
| Lendal wrote:
| This was my observation as well. I haven't used Notepad in
| so long, I had to open it for comparison. Yes, they've
| doubled the amount of wasted space, changing one menu item
| from text to a gear icon.
|
| It's also possible that this is a joke. Nobody that reads
| dev blogs uses Notepad as part of their mission critical
| process.
| lucb1e wrote:
| Assuming you're a Windows or WINE user that uses notepad
| somewhat regularly, I challenge you to use the new notepad
| for a month and then try switching back. I'm very curious
| whether you'll miss more features or be more happy about
| those five pixels.
|
| I do agree, it's completely unnecessary, but I'm still
| surprised the "bullshit" is limited to those few pixels of
| menu bar and some actual problems were fixed instead. (This
| feeling and this thread really go to show what people
| expect from the brand.)
| hvgk wrote:
| I actually use notepad2 when I use windows. Why would I
| use notepad? Would these changes improve anything? Not
| really.
|
| My key problem is this is epic bike shedding.
| lucb1e wrote:
| Then why even the vehement response
| hvgk wrote:
| Because I dumped the platform because of the real issues
| while they were painting it a different colour and
| rearranging the deck chairs.
|
| It deserves critical attitudes directed at it.
| cosmotic wrote:
| That 'redesigned find and replace experience' covers the text in
| the same way the old notepad did, but the old notepad you could
| move the window.
|
| I could have sworn it would have supported dark mode too. Was the
| old notepad using WHITE instead of the system window background
| color all that time?
| ng-user wrote:
| It's crazy to me that Windows 11 has already been released and
| yet they're still adding what should be core functionality to the
| OS as an after thought.
|
| If they are so set on redesigning Notepad and/or all system apps
| to use the new design style, why would those not be prioritized
| and included in the original release from day 1?
| cmckn wrote:
| I'm not sure a slight refresh of the Notepad UI is core
| functionality of the OS. I don't like Windows, I actually quite
| despise it, but I think the rolling release approach is far
| better than, say, macOS' yearly dump. You end up with features
| that are half-baked or pushed to the next year. Microsoft is
| taking a saner approach with Windows releases, IMHO.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| It's not crazy. We don't live in age of physical distribution.
|
| When fix or feature is ready, it's moment to distribute it.
|
| It's way better than Apple style feature hoarding to pad yearly
| OS release changelog with application fluff.
| Scharkenberg wrote:
| Of course, it would be nice if every program ever were nearly
| perfect upon release, but that isn't necessarily a realistic
| expectation in every scenario. If it can be updated via the
| Store (which is the case with Notepad and many other
| utilities), it doesn't have to be tied to the OS release
| cadence. In this aspect, modern Windows is more like rolling-
| release desktop Linux distros than macOS.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Notepad is core OS functionality? I think not.
| valenaut wrote:
| For Windows I would say it is. Windows doesn't come with vi,
| nano, or any other terminal text editor, and some kind of
| text editor is needed for pretty much anything you would do
| with a computer.
| elkos wrote:
| I doubt this is the paradigm that Microsoft would like to
| promote. Interestingly, my limited interactions will
| Windows 10 I haven't had the chance or need to use a text
| editor.
| hvgk wrote:
| Err but powershell ISE ships with it.
| recursive wrote:
| I think so. How else are you supposed to edit a config file?
| nix23 wrote:
| Better notepad then controlpanel ;)
| seritools wrote:
| 10 minute QA because they don't seem to have done it:
|
| - It consistently starts slower than Notepad3 while having
| substantially fewer features to load (and also slower than the
| old Notepad of course)
|
| - THEY ANIMATED THE SCROLLING OMG PLEASE DONT DO THIS (especially
| when grabbing the scroll bar handle). Any amount of delay is too
| much in notepad
|
| - the animation runs at 60Hz even on a high refresh rate screen,
| so it looks choppy
|
| - the animation has to "catch up" when grabbing the scroll bar
| handle and moving it quickly
|
| - 215k lines loaded, _moving the window itself_ is choppy now?
| HOW
|
| - another first party piece of software that ignores the "no
| animations" setting in windows
|
| - I've grabbed a notepad.exe from Windows XP SP3 in comparison,
| no problems there, scrolling and editing is instant. Both have
| SIGNIFICANT lag in the new one.
|
| - Don't even try to resize the window with a big file open (< 1
| FPS)
|
| EDIT: Note that I haven't even complained about new features or
| anything, just the previous, basic features still working
| correctly.
| auvi wrote:
| can you choose line endings as LF not CRLF in Notepad?
| recursive wrote:
| You can already do that in Win10 today.
| kymaz wrote:
| That would be a great win for improving linux compatibility!
| zingmars wrote:
| This is nice. I run dark mode everywhere and I used to use
| notepad for quick notes and stuff. Problem is that notepad is a
| giant wide window so it would burn my eyes out when opened, so I
| had to switch to something else. Now I can use it for that
| purpose again... Providing I move to Win11 that is. Still not a
| fan of the task bar lacking features I use a lot.
| CivBase wrote:
| Here's a few features I'd like to see for Notepad which I don't
| think would compromise its performance or minimalist design:
| - multi-cursor support - tab to indent selection -
| encoding selection - fully controllable with hotkeys
| - [optional] line numbers - [optional] visible whitespace
| characters - [optional] column ruler - [optional]
| spaces instead of tabs - [optional] unix-style line breaks
| kgwxd wrote:
| I assume it will be at least as slow to load as the redesigned
| Calculator, and bug me to rate it Microsoft Store every now and
| then.
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Yeah, the changes seem ok otherwise, but based on every other
| application Microsoft has updated with a new look & feel I'd
| have to agree: it'll take longer to launch, use more resources,
| and have worse input response times.
| koyote wrote:
| Out of curiosity I just opened up the new Calculator. It took
| around 150ms to load (at a guess, it was pretty much instant).
|
| How slow is it on your machine?? I've also not had it ask me to
| rate it on the store. I don't think it even exists on the
| store.
| badsectoracula wrote:
| Since you guessed it instead of somehow measured it (i think
| you'd need a very high framerate camera to measure the time
| between click and app appearing to do that) perhaps it isn't
| that it is fast but you're just not sensitive to such small
| delays?
| koyote wrote:
| Possibly. Maybe I remember the 'good old days' too fondly:
| where opening any kind of application would take upwards of
| 5 seconds and often into the minutes for something large
| like Word :)
|
| For me anything that loads before I even have the time to
| think about the fact that it's loading would not be
| considered 'slow'.
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