[HN Gopher] Termination of LG Mobile Developer website service
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       Termination of LG Mobile Developer website service
        
       Author : username190
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2021-12-05 20:31 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (developer.lge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (developer.lge.com)
        
       | puyoxyz wrote:
       | Seriously uncool. Huawei did this too. It sucks
        
       | corn13read2 wrote:
       | This should absolutely be illegal
        
       | _ink_ wrote:
       | Sad. I like their phones, but will not buy another one from them.
        
         | quink wrote:
         | Well, of course, they got out of the smartphone business. The
         | last new model was the W41 released in February, in the Indian
         | market only.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hagbard_c wrote:
         | Nobody will since they're closing up shop - that is why they're
         | doing away with this program. That said it royally sucks that
         | vendors have such control past the first sale and it is one of
         | the reasons I either try to steer away from hardware which is
         | encumbered with this type of restriction or, it that is not
         | feasible, get rid of the restrictions before I ever use the
         | device.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | The submitted title ("After December 31, LG phones' bootloaders
       | will no longer be able to be unlocked") seems badly
       | editorialized, which is against the site guidelines: " _Please
       | use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don
       | 't editorialize._" We've reverted it now.
       | 
       | Submitters: If you want to say what you think is important about
       | an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the
       | thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with
       | everyone else's:
       | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
        
         | username190 wrote:
         | Apologies, I wasn't sure what to title the submission; I linked
         | to this specific URL because it's served as a pop-up (and is
         | automatically blocked by most browsers) on LG's bootloader
         | unlocking page[0], which details that process specifically.
         | 
         | I appreciate the heads up, and I'll keep in mind the "level
         | playing field" next time I post.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://developer.lge.com/resource/mobile/RetrieveBootloader...
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Appreciated!
        
       | josteink wrote:
       | I seriously don't get what companies think they gain by making
       | moves like this.
       | 
       | You'll catch a bad rep among power-users, and what do you _gain_
       | which is good enough to counter-act that?
       | 
       | Anyone got any explanation for this kind of behaviour and what
       | kind of (commercial) motivations which are driving it?
        
         | wincy wrote:
         | They don't want to pay to upkeep a dev portal for phones they
         | no longer make? They're probably laying off all the people who
         | would maintain such a thing.
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | The solution to this is to open source the unlocking backend,
           | or give the assets to a foundation that can maintain it.
        
             | laurent92 wrote:
             | The problem is recruitment, which capable engineer would
             | agree to maintain a dead system?
        
               | josteink wrote:
               | If they open source it, that's no longer their problem,
               | and the community can pick it up if/when there is a need.
        
         | quink wrote:
         | They got out of the smartphone business. That's enough of a
         | motivation I guess.
        
         | necovek wrote:
         | They are closing phone business altogether: keeping the unlock
         | service running in perpetuity would be an unneeded cost.
         | 
         | Still, they should make a simple dump to allow all phones to be
         | unlocked anytime in the future, but to get that, I think we'll
         | need to get some legislation involved (basically, any product
         | you stop supporting, you must provide unlock keys for any
         | encryption).
        
           | errcorrectcode wrote:
           | I'll never buy an LG product if that's how they play things.
        
         | kunagi7 wrote:
         | Caring about reputation after closing down the whole division
         | is a hard thing to do for them [1]. After all, they aren't
         | manufacturing them anymore. The few ones still out there are >1
         | year old stock.
         | 
         | > From [1] source: "LG will provide service support and
         | software updates for customers of existing mobile products for
         | a period of time which will vary by region."
         | 
         | It they had good will they would keep the service running for 2
         | or 3 years instead of shutting it down after 7 months.
         | 
         | I bought one appliance from them a few years ago, it's quite
         | noisy and not as great as I supposed it was. With news like
         | this one I'll just avoid buying things from their active
         | divisions.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.lg.com/us/press-release/lg-to-close-mobile-
         | phone...
        
           | laurent92 wrote:
           | But LG still has smart TVs and fridges. It means when LG
           | stops those, existing ones will get vulnerabilities and be
           | hacked en masse.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | For people who didn't click through - this is because LG no
       | longer make phones and are closing their dev portal.
       | 
       | It's not that new phones will be locked - there will be no new
       | phones.
        
         | sam_lowry_ wrote:
         | And no way to upgrade old phones. This is the point.
        
       | morninglight wrote:
       | This should make everyone reconsider purchasing a "smart" device
       | from LG.
       | 
       | If LG can do this to their existing phone customers, they won't
       | hesitate to pull the plug on future customers. Buyer Beware!
        
       | elkos wrote:
       | If a person is on the market for an easy to unlock/root Android
       | phone which you would suggest?
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | Pixel is pretty much the primary choice - you don't need to
         | contact the OEM for unlock, the firmware sources are published
         | and you can even relock the phone with your own firmware which
         | others mostly don't allow.
        
           | SXX wrote:
           | Does cusrom re-locked firmware pass SafetyNet hardware
           | attestation?
        
         | bcraven wrote:
         | Any Pixel phone. The 3a is nice and cheap second hand.
        
         | phh wrote:
         | Denied list: - Oppo - Vivo - Unisoc/Spreadtrum nonames/unknown
         | brands - Huawei - Honor
         | 
         | Annoying list: - Realme (supposedly ok, but needs to wait for
         | "deep testing apk" for specific model which can take forver) -
         | Xiaomi/POCO (needs to wait up to one month after first boot)
         | 
         | Should be ok, but YMMV: - Asus/ROG - Nubia/ZTE/RedMagic -
         | Mediatek nonames/unknown brands - Qualcomm nonames/unknown
         | brands
         | 
         | Ok: - OnePlus - Samsung (EXCEPT US MARKET) - Moto - Pixel
        
       | compsciphd wrote:
       | I feel like when companies withdraw support like this, they
       | should provide a generic unlocked firmware that can be installed
       | so that devices don't become ewaste.
        
       | bmarquez wrote:
       | Some commenters are wondering why LG would do this. LG announced
       | they are quitting the smartphone business entirely, and therefore
       | don't have to worry about their developer portal or any
       | reputational damage.
       | 
       | T-Mobile even gave away free LG 5G phones last Monday (probably
       | because nobody would pay full price for a discontinued product).
       | 
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/05/lg-quitti...
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | Ok, who has an LG smart TV?
        
         | lnxg33k1 wrote:
         | i would reconsider the statement about reputational damage, LG
         | still does many things and honestly if their approach when
         | closing departments is leave me with an expensive paper holder,
         | then it won't be at least my first choice, i mean all vendors
         | do the same crap more or less, there is not really anything
         | that gives one or the other a huge competitive advantage, so in
         | this context I'm not sure why I should buy from a company with
         | this track record
        
           | bmarquez wrote:
           | After they announced their exit from the smartphone business,
           | LG promised 3 years of software updates. I don't know if
           | they'll live up to that claim, but my LG Velvet phone
           | recently got a software update dated November 30th, so at
           | least their support team (different from the developer
           | portal) hasn't been shut down yet.
           | 
           | http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2021/04/lg-announces-three-year-
           | pl...
        
       | shrvtv wrote:
       | Such a shame. So right now Google is the only phone manufacturer
       | that allows unlocking the bootloader without losing any
       | functionality or enrolling into some developer program
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | Add Xiaomi too.
        
         | SahAssar wrote:
         | I thought multiple companies did that? Like Sony, Fairphone,
         | Oneplus etc?
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Not sure about others, but Sony deleted some camera firmware
           | DRM keys on unlock which permanently crippled the quality
           | even if you relocked.
        
         | SXX wrote:
         | > that allows unlocking the bootloader without losing any
         | functionality
         | 
         | Does Google Pay work with unlocked bootloader?
         | 
         | Any bank apps that require SafetyNet attestation?
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | How about GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinephone, which run
         | desktop OS with root access?
        
         | JackGreyhat wrote:
         | OnePlus does so too...
        
       | necovek wrote:
       | They are closing entire phone business, but it does not make the
       | point about leaving unsupported devices locked-up in perpetuity
       | moot.
       | 
       | We seriously need to start adding some legislation (in any
       | sufficiently representative customer base country because mobile
       | phones are easily transported between countries) to reduce
       | e-waste and breathe second life into all the devices which run
       | out of their "supported" lifecycle: if a company can't support a
       | device anymore, it needs to allow it to be unlocked forever.
       | 
       | I am sure all the manufacturers can set up a shared IMEI-to-
       | unlock-code DB at a relatively small cost.
        
         | chana_masala wrote:
         | I'm lost, what is/was their developer portal for? What would
         | you need to unlock the bootloader for?
        
           | bmarquez wrote:
           | Developer portal is used for unlocking the bootloader for LG
           | phones, which would allow you to install your own custom
           | Android software.
           | 
           | LG has promised Android updates for 3 years after them
           | exiting the smartphone business, but once those 3 years are
           | up, third-party software would be the only way to get
           | updates.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | They stop giving you updates, you unlock the bootloader,
           | flash LineageOS and use the device safely and in an up to
           | date fashion for another couple of years.
        
         | celsoazevedo wrote:
         | 'fastboot oem unlock'
         | 
         | That's what any modding friendly brand support. There's no need
         | for codes, DBs, costs to OEMs, etc.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | Why are codes even required? Just allow customers to unlock the
         | bootloader without jumping through hoops.
         | 
         | If a code is for some reason required, print it on a sticker in
         | the box it comes in or something.
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | Sure, that would be ideal. For some reason, phone
           | manufacturers have started requiring registration to get an
           | unlock code.
           | 
           | So while I'd be ecstatic for us to get you-own-the-hardware-
           | device-you-bought legislation, at this point in time, I'd be
           | happy with your-device-needs-not-go-in-the-trash-once-we-
           | stop-giving-you-security-updates at least.
           | 
           | In a sense, we should push for both, but we don't have to
           | push for both with the same initiative.
        
       | necovek wrote:
       | This post is a great way to establish how many people never read
       | past the title of an HN submission: keep them coming all those
       | "I'll never buy from you again" :)
        
         | username190 wrote:
         | I wasn't sure exactly what to title this submission, since
         | there was no clear title on the page (which is just a link to a
         | pop-up window); I think the more interesting discussion here is
         | around property ownership, versus the "I'll never buy from you
         | again" comments.
         | 
         | Would we accept that we couldn't update to Windows 10, or
         | switch to Ubuntu, on our laptops, because the Compaq brand was
         | discontinued in 2013?
         | 
         | IMO, the sales & service model of mobile devices has been
         | focused on centralized top-down control, which can often serve
         | to harm the user more than it helps them; especially in cases
         | like this. There's a lot of variability in a statement like
         | that though--why I thought it would be an interesting
         | discussion topic.
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | I think "LG disables unlocking of phones on Dec 31 as it
           | stops producing them" would have helped with this.
           | 
           | This one about who read past the title is definitely
           | orthogonal, but quite a simple to figure out if someone "did
           | read"/"didn't read", so I'd really love to see someone
           | collate the results: it is useful information to have, to at
           | least compare HN users to the general public (which there
           | already are studies on title-reading on, which drives all the
           | tabloid out-of-context titles approach already).
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | well... i never will buy from them again.
        
       | walteweiss wrote:
       | What about Nexus 5X? Which is phone by Google made by LG.
        
         | systemBuilder wrote:
         | Nexus 5x has a pretty serious design flaw, I think it was boot
         | looping but I can't remember precisely ...
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | You could get the software update to complete by putting it
           | in a fridge.
        
             | errcorrectcode wrote:
             | But only an LG fridge, amirite?
        
         | agilob wrote:
         | and LG G7 One which is Android One https://www.android.com/one/
        
       | errcorrectcode wrote:
       | I did client-facing tech consulting for mobile handset mfgrs.
       | There is often a suite of servers that powers each type of phone
       | too. Whenever they turn those off, large portions of the phone,
       | or the whole phone, may stop working too. Motorola and Danger
       | were particularly notorious for this.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | They gave up on the phone business, but keeping the bootloader
       | locked is also giving up on their reputation.
       | 
       | The only good side on all this is that I have another good
       | example why owning the device you paid for is so important.
        
         | moonchrome wrote:
         | >but keeping the bootloader locked is also giving up on their
         | reputation.
         | 
         | To a few dozen HN readers who probably don't even own an LG
         | phone ? I'm a pretty tech savvy person but the last time I had
         | the time to install a custom OS on my device cyanogenmod was
         | still around and cheap Chinese phones with custom roms were the
         | only thing available in the affordable phone segment. Modern
         | phones are cheap enough to replace when the OS updates stop
         | coming and you can find distros with minimal crapware
         | preinstalled and functional UI in any price range.
         | 
         | Trusting some internet rando not to inject spyware into a ROM
         | build seems riskier than a first party distro. Ditto for OSS
         | that doesn't really get vetted (I wonder how many people review
         | the niche device support code in projects like these) and
         | building from source would probably cost me more in hours spent
         | on it than getting a new flagship.
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | I use a ROM from the e.foundation. It is definitely not
           | comparable to trusting "some internet rando not to inject
           | spyware into a ROM build".
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | didip wrote:
       | So, why did LG exit the phone business? Isn't phone business
       | lucrative and high profile?
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >Isn't phone business lucrative and high profile?
         | 
         | only for apple.
         | 
         | eg. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-handset-
         | market-o...
        
         | systemBuilder wrote:
         | Ever since the G2, every generation of phone sold less and
         | less. Pretty soon there weren't enough economies of scale to
         | pay the engineers to build the next generation of phone.
        
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