[HN Gopher] Game "While true: learn()" for free in Epic Store
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Game "While true: learn()" for free in Epic Store
Author : freemint
Score : 36 points
Date : 2021-12-03 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.epicgames.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.epicgames.com)
| keyle wrote:
| Huhhh, I'm a huge epic games fan, I've used UE4 for years
| prior... but having to download another "steam" client for DRMs
| makes it a huge turn off.
|
| I don't need another launcher agent on my computer for your auto-
| update telemetry loving nonsense, for trying out a game I might
| not even like!
| bovermyer wrote:
| https://www.gog.com/game/while_true_learn
| naikrovek wrote:
| it's like gamers WANT a monopoly. I do not understand capital-G
| Gamers, man. they're a very silly lot.
| qudat wrote:
| Natural monopolies are fine; coercive monopolies are not. As
| long as Valve offers a better product/service at a cheaper
| cost than their competition and that's why they have a
| monopoly, then there is nothing wrong with that.
| follower wrote:
| The people that you want to hear from are the developers of
| the games that Valve sells through Steam.
|
| And you probably won't hear from them about their
| experience. And that might cause you to wonder why.
| morticiansflame wrote:
| TBF, monopolies are convenient. It's simple & easy to get all
| your stuff on Amazon nice and quick, but then you get intense
| concentration of wealth and bad working conditions, for
| example. There's always this kind of contradiction between
| the convenience humans want, and the problems that come with
| any kind of monopoly.
| omni wrote:
| As a user, the Epic store is massively inferior to the Steam
| store on the merits. The UI is worse, the download and update
| speeds are worse, the interface is worse, the portability is
| worse, the social layer is worse, almost everything about it
| is worse. You're acting like they're remotely comparable in
| end-user experience, which they aren't. Gamers don't
| necessarily want a monopoly, they just don't want to be
| forced to use a shittier store to play certain games. If Epic
| actually put any effort into their store I think there would
| have been a lot less backlash.
| SturgeonsLaw wrote:
| Are you sure that doesn't just reflect a familiarity with
| Steam more than anything? Because imo Steam has a dog of a
| UI. Everything is tiny and doesn't scale well on high DPI,
| common options are buried in menus, or several hyperlinks
| deep (eg; installing a mod, joining your friend's active
| game), the video controls are fiddly, management of your
| friends list is painful.
|
| Most long term Steam users know its quirks by now, but if
| both Steam and Epic games store were launched today, in
| their current state, Steam would struggle to get traction.
| Arrath wrote:
| The Epic Game Store (at least, the program, I dunno about
| the web interface) doesn't even have _a shopping cart_,
| you have to buy things individually. No amount of years
| of Steam ecosystem buy-in are making me say this out of
| favoritism or familiarity.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| Nah epic game store has many huge and obvious flaws.
|
| The reviews interface is just links to other websites
| with little aggregate data. The library does this thing
| where it greys out uninstalled games making it really
| hard to identify them. It crashes a lot. The social
| features aren't as well developed.
|
| Steam's not perfect but it's surely superior. Though I
| would gladly pay for a game on epic over steam if only
| because epic has given me so much great shit
|
| Enter the Gungeon, Control, Nioh, Alien Isolation,
| Darkest Dungeon, Europa, etc.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Is this game good? I've resisted installing Epic Store so far,
| but this looks pretty neat. Does it feel Zachtronics-y? If so,
| I'll probably pull the trigger.
| gameswithgo wrote:
| Why are you resisting installing steams first real competition
| which gives devs a bigger cut and regularly throws free games
| at you?
| greensoysauce wrote:
| Because Tim is against gaming on Linux.
| tehbeard wrote:
| Because the competition is being done by throwing money at
| it... and not in the let's build a fantastic, quick and nice
| launcher with a world class user experience and amazing tools
| for developers...
|
| But in the same way VC funding artificially lowers the
| costs/prices to the consumer until they've captured a market
| and then bam, time to pump them for all they've got.
|
| I use it to just grab a game if it's free... and every time I
| realise they still haven't added dark mode to checkout to
| match the rest of the app, and get my retinas burnt by the
| sudden contrast flip.
| naikrovek wrote:
| you should learn more about Tim Sweeney. he is all about
| store openness. read his rants about the windows 8 and
| windows 10 store(s) for example.
| tehbeard wrote:
| While I have no love for Apple or any of the other
| billion dollar techbro places, Sweeney was the one
| running the corp. (Epic Games) that deliberately violated
| a contract (let's leave the discussion of is 30%
| ethical/justifable for a app store on the table for the
| moment), and then used a pre-planned ad campaign to
| galvanise an under-18 fanbase to try and control the
| narrative, right?
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| Seems pretty unreasonable to forbid acknowledging the
| ethical motivations of an action in a debate.
| reificator wrote:
| Having not read them I would be shocked if they differed
| dramatically from the points Gabe Newell makes about
| those same stores. At the end of the day both companies
| are trying to avoid getting squeezed out by a platform-
| pack-in monopoly.
| naikrovek wrote:
| well with a thick fuzzy qualifier like "differed
| dramatically" I can't say which side of that you'd end up
| on, but I can say that his views differ.
|
| they were different and compelling enough to get
| Microsoft to adopt most (maybe all, by now) of what he
| insisted upon.
| wruza wrote:
| We are all about happiness and openness until sufficient
| market share, then the music changes. Steam is a long
| player, egs seems to be a fast one, that's it. You have a
| point, but don't humanize corps too much.
| roblabla wrote:
| Because competing with steam through exclusive deals and free
| games is not competing, it's racing to the bottom. I don't
| see any actual improvements or innovations in the Epic Games
| Store, it looks like a pure money grab.
| dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
| Steam has a massive head start and Epic has huge barriers
| to entry. You can make a super nice launcher and it's not
| going make many inroads among those who already have all
| their games and friends on Steam. Epic is throwing money at
| the problem, but they have few other real options. Where is
| the money grab (especially in free games)?
|
| How is Epic the bad guy here when Steam is in a monopoly
| position? Epic should be commended for taking them on (and
| Apple and Google).
| naikrovek wrote:
| sure, paying for games that you get to keep is a money
| grab...
|
| someone wanna explain this logic to me?
| reificator wrote:
| Do you want to explain where "paying for games that you
| get to keep" entered this conversation?
|
| The logic the GP was using was that exclusivity deals and
| "the first hit is free" tactics are not ultimately in the
| customer's interest.
| naikrovek wrote:
| that's arguable, but those tactics are good for getting
| people to use your store. this is what ALL coupons and
| advertising is actually manipulating you to do, and EGS
| isn't doing anything different, there.
|
| the thing EGS IS doing differently, however, is being
| much more fair to creators of these games, and basing
| their fees on the actual costs they must incur, instead
| of just taking as much as they can, which is very much in
| the consumer's best interest. it's in everyone's best
| interest, because more profit for most game devs means
| more games from those devs, and more games are what
| consumers want.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| The epic game store is vastly inferior to steam. But it
| frequently has high quality games available for free. And
| epic is pretty good to the indie game dev community. I see
| no reason not to go for it.
|
| Appeals to quality don't seem particularly meaningful when
| the price of both is 0.
| kgwxd wrote:
| All Steam-like clients are useless middlemen. More of them is
| not a good thing. Every desktop OS on the planet already has
| ways to install and manage programs, and they don't demand a
| cut.
| tata71 wrote:
| GOG isn't real competition?
| artogahr wrote:
| If you're going to go this route, just pirate it. The game is
| good, definitely deserves the price.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Looks like it's available via steam paid, maybe I'll just buy
| it.
| sli wrote:
| It goes on sale for $5 pretty frequently as well.
| drran wrote:
| > Does it feel Zachtronics-y?
|
| Nope.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Never seen it before, looks interesting. I'd rather spend $12
| than install the Epic launcher, it's on GOG and Steam too.
| [deleted]
| fonix wrote:
| What is with people and not wanting to install EGS on their pcs?
| Is it just the hip thing to do, they've seen it plastered all
| over reddit so they've decided to jump on board? It's another
| game store... they have 1-2 free games every single week, and
| they're not junk games. Get the free games on the website and
| when you come around to installing it someday you'll have a huge
| library. There was backlash against Steam when it first came out
| too, look now.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Because it's Epic. They bought up my favorite game, ended Linux
| support for it, pulled it from Steam, turned it into another
| cosmetic money-grab, and continue to make it worse every
| update. The latest changes excited the community a bit but I'm
| positive they're part of a plan that the community is going to
| be absolutely furious about and then, to kick a dead horse,
| they'll add EAC, even though it's impossible to cheat.
|
| Petty reasons? Yeah, but they haven't offered anything worth
| changing my mind over yet.
| scollet wrote:
| Tangentially related, but they killed party match-making with
| rank disparity requirements. Not sure if this was to prevent
| smurfing, but I can't play with friends who are over one rank
| higher.
|
| Personal grudge of the week.
| 999900000999 wrote:
| I really really hate what Epic does.
|
| No one wants to use their store, so they pay for games to
| appear exclusively. I hate this so much for certain games I'll
| just buy it on console.
| programd wrote:
| I understand people having ideological issues about not wanting
| to deal with Epic, but don't let dogma stand in the way of
| experiencing some real innovation.
|
| What I mean is that besides the free games, one big reason to
| install Epic is to play around with Unreal 4/5 game engine.
| There's some very impressive innovation going on in the game
| engine space, and whatever you may think of Epic the company,
| Epic the engineering organization is knocking it out of the
| park here.
|
| From zero experience you can build a photorealistic open world
| game environment in about a week of watching Youtube tutorials
| and downloading free assets from the Unreal marketplace.
| Anybody who hangs out on HN should be able to pick it up very
| quickly. Frankly it's pretty amazing what you can do with
| Unreal in very little time. Unreal 5 (still early access) looks
| even more impressive in its capabilities - watch some Youtube
| videos about it.
|
| I firmly believe that entertainment is heading in the direction
| of anybody being able to create their own worlds to play in,
| with multiplayer to host their friends no less. Unreal (and
| Unity) are the adult version of the tools kids are already
| using on Roblox and Minecraft and both engines are improving by
| leaps and bounds. Think of using those tools as the gateway to
| the non-Meta metaverse, where anybody can create and run their
| own huge, quirky, and amazing virtual world.
| vaer-k wrote:
| Because it's a terrible client with virtually no features, yet
| their business tactics strongarm players into using it. Nobody
| likes to be forced to use a certain product. EGS doesn't even
| offer a fraction of what Steam can do. Here's what I can come
| up with off the top of my head; I'm sure others can chime in
| with more.
|
| Steam has a robust marketplace, with _user reviews_ and a slew
| of sorting and shopping cart features.
|
| Steam has friends, chat, voice chat, and group chat.
|
| Steam has built-in, turnkey stream broadcasting of games.
|
| Steam allows friends to drop in and play a game cooperatively
| with you, even if they don't own the game too.
|
| Steam has remote play with friends.
|
| Steam has remote streaming to devices around your home, and big
| screen mode so you can plop on the couch and enjoy an optimized
| UI and a gamepad.
|
| Steam has robust gamepad support and configuration.
|
| Steam has industry-leading Linux support.
|
| Steam has VR mode, with custom spaces, interfaces, and a market
| of useful tools and mods to enhance the experience.
|
| Steam has a music player and a built-in web browser.
|
| Steam lets you add non-steam games to your library for
| convenient access.
|
| Steam has customizable user profiles and fun social features,
| like card trading.
|
| Steam has experimental mods and features via Steam Labs.
|
| Now, ask yourself, how does it feel when EGS coerces players
| into using their inferior storefront through strongarm business
| practices.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| A hugely important addendum: Steam is owned by Valve, which
| is _not a publicly traded company_. GabeN 's private hat
| empire can do whatever it wants.
| Arrath wrote:
| This feels like a positive, to me. After watching so much
| quarterly profit chasing races to the bottom across so many
| aspects of the economy.
| scubbo wrote:
| (Not the person you're replying to) These are all reasonable
| complaints! I, personally, barely care about _any_ of them
| (in particular, I don't think I've ever read a review on
| Steam, I almost-never play multiplayer or modded games, and I
| would hate to stream my games), so, for me, Epic is exactly
| as fully-featured as Steam is - but these are reasonable
| reasons why other people might feel a gap.
|
| (EDIT: in particular, I always find the complaint that Epic
| lacks a shopping cart to be hilarious, because I hadn't even
| noticed that Steam _has_ a cart until that was pointed out. I
| can't imagine ever wanting to buy more than one game at
| once!)
| vaer-k wrote:
| That's all well and good, and if you like EGS, that's your
| prerogative. My response is to a question of why people
| _don 't_ like EGS. The point is not even that Steam is
| better (it is); instead the point is that nobody likes to
| be forced to use a platform they don't prefer, and this is
| made especially onerous when the forced platform is so
| very, very inferior.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| EGS _still_ doesn 't have a cart?!
|
| IMO it speaks to a disturbing implication of priorities on
| the part of EGS. The concept of a cart isn't exactly
| groundbreaking in ecommerce, and its absence suggests to me
| that the store's primary purpose isn't to easily allow
| humans to purchase games.
| vaer-k wrote:
| Exactly right. This is it right here. It's openly hostile
| to users, especially considering the broader context of
| Weeny's pejorative comments about his customers.
| skocznymroczny wrote:
| Well, Steam also started by strongarming players into it if
| you want to play Half Life 2. Also Steam is still
| strongarming players by Steamworks integration. Half of AAA
| games use Steamworks, and if you don't want to use Steam, you
| can't play the game, even if you buy a boxed copy.
| govg wrote:
| Asking genuinely, what are these AAA games that require
| Steamworks? None of the big publishers require use of Steam
| (EA / Ubisoft / Activision), most of them have their own
| launchers that get launched anyway when you open their
| games via Steam.
| [deleted]
| setpatchaddress wrote:
| I use a PC as gaming console for my 4k TV. The EGS windows app
| is unusable on a 4k TV. Steam, GOG, and Ubisoft Connect all
| work fine on the same TV.
|
| On top of that, I don't like Epic's business and legal
| practices. Can't buy my soul with free games.
| naikrovek wrote:
| what practices are those? paying publishers for _temporary_
| exclusivity? not sure how that would buy a soul, but ok.
| officeplant wrote:
| It's a crap client that isn't up to the standards of modern
| game clients. I still can't move my game downloads to a backup
| in instances where I reformat my machine (or move to a new
| machine) and expect them to work when moved back. Meanwhile
| that kind of thing has worked in steam for a decade, and games
| I install via GoG don't care anyway because they don't need a
| client to work. IIRC Epic still doesn't have a working cloud
| save feature either. I get really tired of having to download
| 400GB of games just because the free games from Epic don't like
| being moved around.
|
| They offer no value to the end user other than the free games
| to bait people onto their store.
| Karsteski wrote:
| Yea it's a bit odd although I understand it. People want all
| their games in one place. That being said, as much as I love
| Valve, Steam and what they're doing for the gaming community, I
| definitely want more competition in the PC game market.
|
| Competition is ultimately beneficial for the consumer, after
| all :)
| Tomte wrote:
| GOG's client can be connected to Steam and Epic accounts, so
| you have all games in one place.
| Karsteski wrote:
| O, I didn't know this. Thanks for the tip!
| baumandm wrote:
| But it only runs on Windows, unfortunately.
| dcastonguay wrote:
| For me it's just because I don't want another piece of software
| on my machine that adds essentially no value on its own running
| in the background that I also have to manage to ensure that
| it's not running in the background when I don't want it to.
|
| I'm resistant (and I think this is the case with others as
| well) to the idea that games must exist inside of their
| creator's special portal; it's a level of abstraction that I
| wish did not exist. Every modern desktop OS has some way of
| directly installing applications and many of them also provide
| their own stores (Mac App Store, Windows Store, etc.). The only
| thing "game store competition" is doing is creating a "now you
| have [x] standards" problem where the pitch of "all your games
| are located in one place" ends up becoming "all your games are
| in a bunch of places which you'll be able to access after
| you've installed several different applications".
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