[HN Gopher] See brands' supply chain linkages that are contribut...
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       See brands' supply chain linkages that are contributing to Amazon
       deforestation
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 74 points
       Date   : 2021-12-03 18:41 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.stand.earth)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.stand.earth)
        
       | framecowbird wrote:
       | If anybody is interested in learning more about this issue check
       | out the documentary "Grazing the Amazon"
        
       | karmelapple wrote:
       | Here's a related recent video from Kurzgesagt, discussing how
       | space for beef cattle drives deforestation in Brazil.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Hq8eVOMHs
        
       | saxonww wrote:
       | I'm sort of surprised that the focus is on the leather industry,
       | which I assumed was a byproduct of raising cattle for beef. Are
       | cattle raised specifically for their hides?
        
         | jwagenet wrote:
         | My understanding is Amazon deforestation is to accommodate
         | other land uses, in this case presumably cattle. The cattle
         | maybe be used for beef and leather, but whatever the end use
         | the forest impact is the same and focused on a shortsighted
         | incentive.
        
           | jimmaswell wrote:
           | A viewpoint I've never seen addressed - if the people of this
           | country have unmet economic needs they can only meet by using
           | some land from the Amazon, is it really more important to
           | preserve it as a landmark than for the land to go to use? I'm
           | all for conservation but there must be some reason everyone
           | down there wants some of this land as opposed to going
           | elsewhere.
        
             | slymon99 wrote:
             | > is it really more important to preserve it as a landmark
             | than for the land to go to use
             | 
             | The Amazon has 10% of the worlds biodiversity, I wouldn't
             | exactly call it a landmark, this isn't historic
             | preservation - and the land is already "in use". Also I'm
             | not sure that "the people of the country" are buying and
             | farming cattle on large chunks of the Amazon, I'd assume
             | the economic gains are highly concentrated amongst a few
             | companies (this is conjecture). Either way, lowering demand
             | for cattle raised in the Amazon would be one way to make
             | this less common.
        
               | framecowbird wrote:
               | Very true that it's focused on just a few companies.
               | Mostly JBS: they are massive.
               | 
               | However while these companies take the lion's share of
               | the profit it is poor people who are doing the
               | deforestation to improve their standard of living, often
               | hired by those companies via various intermediaries to
               | hide their links to deforestation.
        
             | framecowbird wrote:
             | A lot of the people doing deforestation in the Amazon are
             | incredibly poor, and deforestation is the only option to
             | them to increase their standard of living.
             | 
             | However, to say we are preserving the Amazon as a
             | "landmark" is not quite right. Globally speaking the best
             | use for the Amazon is as a carbon sink and biodiversity
             | hotspot. What should be happening is that the global
             | community should be paying for this benefit: a big capital
             | flow from the whole world to Brazil. But they are not, they
             | are just free-riding.
        
           | nielsbot wrote:
           | They state the number one driver of Amazon deforestation is
           | cattle ranching.
        
             | framecowbird wrote:
             | It isn't quite true that cattle is the biggest driver of
             | deforestation in the Amazon. The number one driver is soy.
             | However, landowners will typically deforest and then place
             | cattle on land for five years, before converting to soy to
             | circumvent regulation. This creates the impression that
             | cattle was the driver, when it was in fact soy.
             | 
             | That said, a lot of the soy does feed cattle too!
        
               | gffrd wrote:
               | Reading this surprised me ...
               | 
               | How much is soy worth per acre? I assume the
               | demand/payoff must be sizable to justify the cost of
               | converting forest to agricultural land?
        
               | framecowbird wrote:
               | Soy is exported at about 380 USD per ton, and yield is
               | something like 3 tons per hectare.
               | 
               | I'm not sure how much the farmer doing the deforestation
               | gets though. But deforesting the Amazon is sadly very
               | cheap. Much cheaper than it should be given the value of
               | the Amazon. It's a disastrous market failure.
        
         | thepete2 wrote:
         | It states that amazon deforestation is driven by demand for
         | beef and leather. Presumably leather is easier to transport and
         | hence global leather demand plays a role here? Just a guess
         | though.
        
           | framecowbird wrote:
           | It's not really about transportation. Cattle are transported
           | live to slaughterhouses near the port, before global export.
           | However leather "subsidies" the industry because it makes the
           | cows more valuable: this is how it contributes to
           | deforestation.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | Yeah, it's interesting. I was under the impression that the
         | majority of leather is used for cars and furniture. But I don't
         | see any auto brands here. This appears to be focused on the
         | _shoe_ industry.
         | 
         | I tried to find a breakdown of what leather is used for, and
         | came up with this instead:
         | 
         | https://blog.bizvibe.com/blog/top-10-largest-leather-produci...
         | 
         | Italy imports _and_ exports more leather than anybody?
        
           | framecowbird wrote:
           | It's surprising but true that shoes come out top! A breakdown
           | is hard to come by because supply chains are proprietary
           | information but see this article:
           | https://medium.com/trase/european-and-us-companies-need-
           | defo...
        
       | nielsbot wrote:
       | The actual brands are shown on Slide 31.
        
         | rajangdavis wrote:
         | https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/KDFLe-kvVS34briUiLj2nhQXkP...
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-03 23:02 UTC)