[HN Gopher] Drinking year-old eggnog to put science to the test ...
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       Drinking year-old eggnog to put science to the test (2014)
        
       Author : nielsbot
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2021-12-03 17:04 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (chicagoreader.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (chicagoreader.com)
        
       | mountain_peak wrote:
       | As someone who loved eggnog as a child (my favourite was eggnog
       | with Honeycomb cereal), and who has since become glucose
       | intolerant (surprise, surprise), I've made a low-carb version of
       | Alton's recipe in recent years, and it's not bad, but nowhere
       | near the original as I remember it.
       | 
       | The only drawback is that without sugar, it's missing a
       | 'thickness' element. I've tried erythritol, but (despite a
       | glycemic index of 1), it seems to affect my blood sugar and I
       | have to stick with stevia powder. I've also tried thickeners such
       | as xanthan gum and inulin, but they end up making the eggnog
       | 'slimy'. Egg yolk, cream, and almond milk all supply some net
       | carbs, and in liquid form, they raise blood glucose levels rather
       | quickly, which isn't great for someone who can't easily
       | counteract a sudden rise in glucose, but a small glass doesn't
       | seem to affect me. Ironically, the rum has zero carbs, as does
       | the bourbon, but cognac is definitely out - can't say I notice.
       | 
       | I've even tried to steam the mixture with my espresso maker wand
       | to add thickness - making sure I stay under 140 degrees.
       | Unfortunately, I think even though the overall temperature of the
       | liquid is less than 140, the steam seems to 'cook' the egg as it
       | exits the wand, making the eggnog a but 'chunky' - it was worth a
       | shot!
        
         | jasonpeacock wrote:
         | Maybe try Gum Arabic as thickener? When I make a simple syrup
         | with it the result has a very velvety texture. But it does take
         | a while to fully dissolve - I leave it in the sous vide for a
         | few hours.
         | 
         | Similarly, you can try a low heat over the stove top, or the
         | sous vide, to thicken it like cooking a custard, that would
         | avoid curdling the eggs.
        
       | gcheong wrote:
       | I prefer this version which forgoes the dairy until drinking time
       | which I find to be smoother and less harsh than adding it
       | upfront:
       | 
       | https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/6704-eggnog-better-...
        
       | jonahhorowitz wrote:
       | I make Alton Brown's recipe every year. Aged eggnog is delicious.
       | I'd never realized that aging it (at least 3 weeks) actually
       | makes it safer.
       | 
       | [0] - https://altonbrown.com/recipes/aged-eggnog/
        
         | lux wrote:
         | I made a double-sized batch of this a few weeks back for a
         | holiday party this weekend and for the holidays. First time and
         | can't wait to try!
        
         | justusthane wrote:
         | I have two batches of this in my fridge right now!
        
           | ortusdux wrote:
           | Thanks to covid, I didn't have enough guests over to finish
           | off last years batch. First time I've had some survive the
           | holidays! Defiantly looking foreword to taste-testing 1 year
           | old vs 1 month old batches this year.
        
         | Mikeb85 wrote:
         | Makes it safer if it's uncooked, but most eggnog is cooked
         | (like creme anglaise or ice cream base).
        
           | harpersealtako wrote:
           | I've always been under the strong impression that raw-egg-
           | eggnog is overwhelmingly the default, and the only eggnog
           | that is cooked/pasteurized is the store-bought stuff. After
           | all, what's the point of making your own eggnog otherwise?
        
             | cout wrote:
             | I've never made eggnog, but lately I'm starting to learn to
             | make other things with eggs, such as mayonnaise and lemon
             | curd.
             | 
             | You can buy pasteurized eggs at the grocery store, and some
             | people claim you can pasteurize eggs at home (though the
             | USDA says otherwise). In that case the eggs and milk would
             | be pasteurized, but the eggnog itself would be uncooked.
        
               | crookshanked wrote:
               | Interesting to consider that bit about the USDA and home
               | pasteurizing eggs. I do a lot of ice cream/frozen custard
               | style things and have used raw yolks before after using
               | low temperature cooking via immersion circulator to
               | "pasteurize" them first. I usually refer to Douglas
               | Baldwin for a majority of this stuff.
               | http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html Though the
               | first article that popped up on the search has some good
               | reading on it from what I'm seeing.
               | https://www.streetsmartkitchen.com/how-to-pasteurize-
               | eggs-so...
        
             | nielsbot wrote:
             | I've actually made "instant" egg nog right in the cocktail
             | shaker... and it's been a hit
             | 
             | https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/baltimore-
             | eggnog-3415575
             | 
             | Probably not as food safe as the aged version, but still
             | quite tasty. Not eggy. However the linked article says "The
             | USDA estimates that one in every 20,000 eggs contains
             | salmonella bacteria, which means that the average consumer
             | would encounter a contaminated egg once every 84 years."
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | Honestly, I haven't surveyed enough people so I can't say
             | with absolute certainty, but at restaurants, the home cooks
             | I know and of course all store bought stuff whether mass
             | produced or artisanal has been cooked.
        
           | nkozyra wrote:
           | Most (non-alcoholic) eggnog is pasteurized, I'd say it's a
           | rarity to have 'cooked' eggs.
           | 
           | When I make it, it's generally still really alcohol-laden in
           | the mouth until ~ 3 weeks. The longest I've ever kept it is
           | 6-8 weeks but I've heard good things about a year or longer
        
             | coldpie wrote:
             | I made a batch that I let sit for a year. After the year I
             | would describe it as disgusting, bordering on inedible. I
             | still don't know whether I screwed up or just don't have a
             | taste for it, but I haven't tried it twice.
             | 
             | Edit: Reading the sibling's Kenji link, which references
             | TFA, I definitely agree with these sentences:
             | 
             | > Julia Thiel of the Chicago Reader claimed that year-old
             | nog had "more depth and complexity of flavor," but that
             | "the booziness made it a little difficult to drink."
             | 
             | > Thiel's assessment is most in agreement with my own. The
             | nog was definitely more complex--new flavors had developed
             | that are not present in fresh nog--but the booziness came
             | strongly to the forefront.
        
               | js2 wrote:
               | Just to try to calibrate to your taste: do you drink any
               | spirits neat? If so, at what proof?
               | 
               | e.g, I'll drink bourbon neat as high as 120 proof, but
               | that's definitely been an acquired taste.
        
               | GravitasFailure wrote:
               | I'll drink 120 proof whisky neat and enjoy it all day,
               | but there's something about Eggnog and every other
               | creamy/fatty cocktail that brings forward a harsh,
               | rubbing alcohol-like sting that I can't stand. I'd love
               | to know how exactly that works but haven't found any
               | answers yet.
               | 
               | The one I'm really trying to figure out is an experiment
               | with soaking apple pieces in bourbon for apple pies. The
               | result is a lovely slightly tart apple whisky that has a
               | boozy harshness that's tamed by a bit of honey.
        
             | dsizzle wrote:
             | The difference between "cooking" and "pasteurizing" is only
             | a few degrees: I've seen 138F for pasteurization while 142F
             | starts to cook.
             | 
             | I've never heard of eggnog with literally cooked eggs
             | (chunks of egg and yolk? Yikes.). I would guess they meant
             | "cook" in the loose sense of heat to kill bacteria (rather
             | than cross-linking the proteins to create a solid)!
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | There's literally an entire class of pastry creams
               | involving egg yolks cooked into cream. With the proper
               | technique it stays homogeneous.
               | 
               | - Egg nog
               | 
               | - Creme anglaise (and offshoots like Bavarian cream)
               | 
               | - Creme patissiere/pastry cream (plus offshoots like
               | millefeuille cream)
               | 
               | - Lemon curd
               | 
               | - Ice cream base
               | 
               | Anglaise, pastry cream and lemon curd also form the base
               | for the majority of thickened cream preparations that end
               | up in layered cakes and other pastries.
        
               | dsizzle wrote:
               | Ah, so you stir it while heating or dilute it enough or
               | something and that prevents coagulation?
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | You also cook it to a temperature that causes it to
               | pasteurize, thicken but not scramble. Or add starch which
               | prevents it from scrambling for the ones cooked to a
               | higher temperature. You stir while cooking very slowly
               | until it reaches a specific temperature.
        
               | dsizzle wrote:
               | Oh, so my guess about stirring was wrong -- that doesn't
               | matter (was thinking it would be like stirring ice cream
               | while freezing)? How sensitive is the homogeneity to
               | starch concentration when heating above 142F? Are there
               | any other parameters in the technique besides temperature
               | and starch concentration?
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | No your guess about stirring was right I just added more
               | info and specified (coagulation does happen but different
               | protein molecules cook at different temperatures). It's
               | very sensitive to starch in the sense a relatively small
               | amount of starch will prevent scrambling.
               | 
               | Temperature and starch are the main considerations WRT
               | not scrambling the eggs.
               | 
               | Anglaise/ice cream/pastry cream/curd all have varying
               | amounts of fat (milk vs cream or mix), sugar and it'll
               | all affect the consistency.
        
               | chomp wrote:
               | I sous vide mine at around those temps which is below the
               | coagulation temperature, and makes it perfectly safe with
               | no chunks of cooked egg.
        
               | dsizzle wrote:
               | I think you need to clarify "around those temps." From
               | what I understand, if you stay below 142F, it won't
               | coagulate. Are you just saying that sous vide is precise
               | enough that you can do your own pasteurization? Or are
               | you suggesting 142F isn't quite a hard cutoff? Either
               | way, that's good to know.
        
               | ortusdux wrote:
               | A standard $100 usd Sous Vide wand can easily hold
               | +-1degf if you use it in a small insulated cooler. I
               | regularly use mine to pasteurize and soft-boil eggs - I
               | like to give eggnog as gifts and I hate a solid yolk.
               | I've never actually tested the pasteurized eggs for
               | salmonella afterwards. I wonder what test-strips cost?
        
               | HillRat wrote:
               | Commercial eggnog definitely uses pasteurized and sugared
               | egg yolks (generally in small quantities); they come as a
               | homogenized liquid. For home cooks who don't have access
               | to pasteurized (or to pasteurize) eggs, or don't want to
               | have alcohol in their drinks for the raw "real" stuff,
               | you can always make a cooked custard base, strain it to
               | remove any coagulated bits, and then thin it with
               | additional dairy before serving.
        
             | Arainach wrote:
             | My testing lines up with Kenji's:
             | https://www.seriouseats.com/is-aging-holiday-eggnog-worth-
             | it
             | 
             | 1 month is worth it, 3 months is great, after that I don't
             | necessarily find it's worth it. That said, I have one last
             | pint jar of November 2019 sitting in the fridge that I need
             | to open soon and test....
        
       | simonebrunozzi wrote:
       | For the curious, a very similar "drink" in Italy is called
       | "Bombardino". [0]
       | 
       | It's supposed to have some brandy added to the eggnog, I think.
       | 
       | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardino
        
       | cheese_goddess wrote:
       | > Whether it's three weeks old or three years old, aged eggnog is
       | actually safer to drink than fresh eggnog made with raw eggs--as
       | long as you put plenty of booze in it. (Not that raw eggs are all
       | that dangerous in the first place. The USDA estimates that one in
       | every 20,000 eggs contains salmonella bacteria, which means that
       | the average consumer would encounter a contaminated egg once
       | every 84 years.)
       | 
       | That seems hard to square with the information that "Eggs and
       | egg-containing foods are the primary vehicles of S. Enteritidis
       | infection, having been implicated in 298 (80%) of the 371 known-
       | source S. Enteritidis outbreaks reported to the Centers for
       | Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from 1985 through 1999",
       | taken from this article:
       | 
       | https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/1/04-0401_article
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | Think about it this way: a household of 4 might use a dozen
         | eggs per day. At 1:20000, that's 4.5 years between seeing
         | contaminated eggs. If the sanitary procedures reduce risk by
         | 80%, they have a problem every 22 years or so.
         | 
         | A moderately busy restaurant can use a thousand eggs per day.
         | If their procedures are only 95% effective, they have a problem
         | almost every year.
         | 
         | 300 outbreaks in 15 years suggests that restaurants have egg
         | handling procedures that are better than 95% effective.
        
           | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
           | > a household of 4 might use a dozen eggs per day
           | 
           | That's a lot!!! Even when I was raising chickens, we didn't
           | get anywhere near those numbers: I gave away eggs like crazy.
           | 
           | Maybe it's a societal thing? Certain cultures use eggs a lot
           | more than others?
        
             | schwartzworld wrote:
             | Eggs are a pretty common breakfast item, and they are also
             | used in many dishes. A dozen is on the high side, but if
             | your whole family likes eggs for breakfast or you like to
             | bake, I could see it.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | Between 2 and 4 out of every hundred thousand people were
         | getting sick from it, I don't know the exact maths but it seems
         | believable that all of these statements are broadly true.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | Here's my recipe for eggnog:
       | 
       | https://benovermyer.com/recipe/eggnog/
       | 
       | I think I might try aging it. That sounds like a fun idea.
        
       | jasonpeacock wrote:
       | I use Alton Brown's recipe, and I've sampled at various ages.
       | Personally, I couldn't tell the difference between 1mo up to 1yr.
       | 1mo is the best, IMO, but you want at least 2wks to meld the
       | flavors.
        
       | deegles wrote:
       | These articles come out of hibernation every year and remind me,
       | but it's too late! This year I'm making a batch (without the
       | dairy), labeling it, and leaving it for Christmas 2022.
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | Make a great christmas mustard from scratch using mustard seeds
         | instead. That's what I randomly got enthusiastic about today.
         | Seems pretty easy, and with a pretty wide range of ways of
         | mixing your way to your perfect mustard.
         | 
         | Not sure if "christmas mustard" is a thing in the US though.
         | Perhaps not.
        
           | crookshanked wrote:
           | It should be... I love the concept of seasonal mustards. Care
           | to share what recipe you landed on?
        
           | GravitasFailure wrote:
           | >Not sure if "christmas mustard" is a thing in the US though.
           | Perhaps not.
           | 
           | Sadly, no. Maybe in the more German-influenced areas like
           | Pennsylvania, but it does seem like a tradition that needs to
           | be more widespread.
        
       | asdffdsa wrote:
       | Now that's how you write a title folks
        
       | marban wrote:
       | Just had a sip from a bottle that was stored open at room
       | temperature for 4+ years. Apparently I'm still alive.
        
         | brewdad wrote:
         | _RemindMe_ 24 hours.
         | 
         | ;-)
        
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