[HN Gopher] Drinking year-old eggnog to put science to the test ...
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Drinking year-old eggnog to put science to the test (2014)
Author : nielsbot
Score : 37 points
Date : 2021-12-03 17:04 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (chicagoreader.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (chicagoreader.com)
| mountain_peak wrote:
| As someone who loved eggnog as a child (my favourite was eggnog
| with Honeycomb cereal), and who has since become glucose
| intolerant (surprise, surprise), I've made a low-carb version of
| Alton's recipe in recent years, and it's not bad, but nowhere
| near the original as I remember it.
|
| The only drawback is that without sugar, it's missing a
| 'thickness' element. I've tried erythritol, but (despite a
| glycemic index of 1), it seems to affect my blood sugar and I
| have to stick with stevia powder. I've also tried thickeners such
| as xanthan gum and inulin, but they end up making the eggnog
| 'slimy'. Egg yolk, cream, and almond milk all supply some net
| carbs, and in liquid form, they raise blood glucose levels rather
| quickly, which isn't great for someone who can't easily
| counteract a sudden rise in glucose, but a small glass doesn't
| seem to affect me. Ironically, the rum has zero carbs, as does
| the bourbon, but cognac is definitely out - can't say I notice.
|
| I've even tried to steam the mixture with my espresso maker wand
| to add thickness - making sure I stay under 140 degrees.
| Unfortunately, I think even though the overall temperature of the
| liquid is less than 140, the steam seems to 'cook' the egg as it
| exits the wand, making the eggnog a but 'chunky' - it was worth a
| shot!
| jasonpeacock wrote:
| Maybe try Gum Arabic as thickener? When I make a simple syrup
| with it the result has a very velvety texture. But it does take
| a while to fully dissolve - I leave it in the sous vide for a
| few hours.
|
| Similarly, you can try a low heat over the stove top, or the
| sous vide, to thicken it like cooking a custard, that would
| avoid curdling the eggs.
| gcheong wrote:
| I prefer this version which forgoes the dairy until drinking time
| which I find to be smoother and less harsh than adding it
| upfront:
|
| https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/6704-eggnog-better-...
| jonahhorowitz wrote:
| I make Alton Brown's recipe every year. Aged eggnog is delicious.
| I'd never realized that aging it (at least 3 weeks) actually
| makes it safer.
|
| [0] - https://altonbrown.com/recipes/aged-eggnog/
| lux wrote:
| I made a double-sized batch of this a few weeks back for a
| holiday party this weekend and for the holidays. First time and
| can't wait to try!
| justusthane wrote:
| I have two batches of this in my fridge right now!
| ortusdux wrote:
| Thanks to covid, I didn't have enough guests over to finish
| off last years batch. First time I've had some survive the
| holidays! Defiantly looking foreword to taste-testing 1 year
| old vs 1 month old batches this year.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Makes it safer if it's uncooked, but most eggnog is cooked
| (like creme anglaise or ice cream base).
| harpersealtako wrote:
| I've always been under the strong impression that raw-egg-
| eggnog is overwhelmingly the default, and the only eggnog
| that is cooked/pasteurized is the store-bought stuff. After
| all, what's the point of making your own eggnog otherwise?
| cout wrote:
| I've never made eggnog, but lately I'm starting to learn to
| make other things with eggs, such as mayonnaise and lemon
| curd.
|
| You can buy pasteurized eggs at the grocery store, and some
| people claim you can pasteurize eggs at home (though the
| USDA says otherwise). In that case the eggs and milk would
| be pasteurized, but the eggnog itself would be uncooked.
| crookshanked wrote:
| Interesting to consider that bit about the USDA and home
| pasteurizing eggs. I do a lot of ice cream/frozen custard
| style things and have used raw yolks before after using
| low temperature cooking via immersion circulator to
| "pasteurize" them first. I usually refer to Douglas
| Baldwin for a majority of this stuff.
| http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html Though the
| first article that popped up on the search has some good
| reading on it from what I'm seeing.
| https://www.streetsmartkitchen.com/how-to-pasteurize-
| eggs-so...
| nielsbot wrote:
| I've actually made "instant" egg nog right in the cocktail
| shaker... and it's been a hit
|
| https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/baltimore-
| eggnog-3415575
|
| Probably not as food safe as the aged version, but still
| quite tasty. Not eggy. However the linked article says "The
| USDA estimates that one in every 20,000 eggs contains
| salmonella bacteria, which means that the average consumer
| would encounter a contaminated egg once every 84 years."
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Honestly, I haven't surveyed enough people so I can't say
| with absolute certainty, but at restaurants, the home cooks
| I know and of course all store bought stuff whether mass
| produced or artisanal has been cooked.
| nkozyra wrote:
| Most (non-alcoholic) eggnog is pasteurized, I'd say it's a
| rarity to have 'cooked' eggs.
|
| When I make it, it's generally still really alcohol-laden in
| the mouth until ~ 3 weeks. The longest I've ever kept it is
| 6-8 weeks but I've heard good things about a year or longer
| coldpie wrote:
| I made a batch that I let sit for a year. After the year I
| would describe it as disgusting, bordering on inedible. I
| still don't know whether I screwed up or just don't have a
| taste for it, but I haven't tried it twice.
|
| Edit: Reading the sibling's Kenji link, which references
| TFA, I definitely agree with these sentences:
|
| > Julia Thiel of the Chicago Reader claimed that year-old
| nog had "more depth and complexity of flavor," but that
| "the booziness made it a little difficult to drink."
|
| > Thiel's assessment is most in agreement with my own. The
| nog was definitely more complex--new flavors had developed
| that are not present in fresh nog--but the booziness came
| strongly to the forefront.
| js2 wrote:
| Just to try to calibrate to your taste: do you drink any
| spirits neat? If so, at what proof?
|
| e.g, I'll drink bourbon neat as high as 120 proof, but
| that's definitely been an acquired taste.
| GravitasFailure wrote:
| I'll drink 120 proof whisky neat and enjoy it all day,
| but there's something about Eggnog and every other
| creamy/fatty cocktail that brings forward a harsh,
| rubbing alcohol-like sting that I can't stand. I'd love
| to know how exactly that works but haven't found any
| answers yet.
|
| The one I'm really trying to figure out is an experiment
| with soaking apple pieces in bourbon for apple pies. The
| result is a lovely slightly tart apple whisky that has a
| boozy harshness that's tamed by a bit of honey.
| dsizzle wrote:
| The difference between "cooking" and "pasteurizing" is only
| a few degrees: I've seen 138F for pasteurization while 142F
| starts to cook.
|
| I've never heard of eggnog with literally cooked eggs
| (chunks of egg and yolk? Yikes.). I would guess they meant
| "cook" in the loose sense of heat to kill bacteria (rather
| than cross-linking the proteins to create a solid)!
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| There's literally an entire class of pastry creams
| involving egg yolks cooked into cream. With the proper
| technique it stays homogeneous.
|
| - Egg nog
|
| - Creme anglaise (and offshoots like Bavarian cream)
|
| - Creme patissiere/pastry cream (plus offshoots like
| millefeuille cream)
|
| - Lemon curd
|
| - Ice cream base
|
| Anglaise, pastry cream and lemon curd also form the base
| for the majority of thickened cream preparations that end
| up in layered cakes and other pastries.
| dsizzle wrote:
| Ah, so you stir it while heating or dilute it enough or
| something and that prevents coagulation?
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| You also cook it to a temperature that causes it to
| pasteurize, thicken but not scramble. Or add starch which
| prevents it from scrambling for the ones cooked to a
| higher temperature. You stir while cooking very slowly
| until it reaches a specific temperature.
| dsizzle wrote:
| Oh, so my guess about stirring was wrong -- that doesn't
| matter (was thinking it would be like stirring ice cream
| while freezing)? How sensitive is the homogeneity to
| starch concentration when heating above 142F? Are there
| any other parameters in the technique besides temperature
| and starch concentration?
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| No your guess about stirring was right I just added more
| info and specified (coagulation does happen but different
| protein molecules cook at different temperatures). It's
| very sensitive to starch in the sense a relatively small
| amount of starch will prevent scrambling.
|
| Temperature and starch are the main considerations WRT
| not scrambling the eggs.
|
| Anglaise/ice cream/pastry cream/curd all have varying
| amounts of fat (milk vs cream or mix), sugar and it'll
| all affect the consistency.
| chomp wrote:
| I sous vide mine at around those temps which is below the
| coagulation temperature, and makes it perfectly safe with
| no chunks of cooked egg.
| dsizzle wrote:
| I think you need to clarify "around those temps." From
| what I understand, if you stay below 142F, it won't
| coagulate. Are you just saying that sous vide is precise
| enough that you can do your own pasteurization? Or are
| you suggesting 142F isn't quite a hard cutoff? Either
| way, that's good to know.
| ortusdux wrote:
| A standard $100 usd Sous Vide wand can easily hold
| +-1degf if you use it in a small insulated cooler. I
| regularly use mine to pasteurize and soft-boil eggs - I
| like to give eggnog as gifts and I hate a solid yolk.
| I've never actually tested the pasteurized eggs for
| salmonella afterwards. I wonder what test-strips cost?
| HillRat wrote:
| Commercial eggnog definitely uses pasteurized and sugared
| egg yolks (generally in small quantities); they come as a
| homogenized liquid. For home cooks who don't have access
| to pasteurized (or to pasteurize) eggs, or don't want to
| have alcohol in their drinks for the raw "real" stuff,
| you can always make a cooked custard base, strain it to
| remove any coagulated bits, and then thin it with
| additional dairy before serving.
| Arainach wrote:
| My testing lines up with Kenji's:
| https://www.seriouseats.com/is-aging-holiday-eggnog-worth-
| it
|
| 1 month is worth it, 3 months is great, after that I don't
| necessarily find it's worth it. That said, I have one last
| pint jar of November 2019 sitting in the fridge that I need
| to open soon and test....
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| For the curious, a very similar "drink" in Italy is called
| "Bombardino". [0]
|
| It's supposed to have some brandy added to the eggnog, I think.
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardino
| cheese_goddess wrote:
| > Whether it's three weeks old or three years old, aged eggnog is
| actually safer to drink than fresh eggnog made with raw eggs--as
| long as you put plenty of booze in it. (Not that raw eggs are all
| that dangerous in the first place. The USDA estimates that one in
| every 20,000 eggs contains salmonella bacteria, which means that
| the average consumer would encounter a contaminated egg once
| every 84 years.)
|
| That seems hard to square with the information that "Eggs and
| egg-containing foods are the primary vehicles of S. Enteritidis
| infection, having been implicated in 298 (80%) of the 371 known-
| source S. Enteritidis outbreaks reported to the Centers for
| Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from 1985 through 1999",
| taken from this article:
|
| https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/1/04-0401_article
| dsr_ wrote:
| Think about it this way: a household of 4 might use a dozen
| eggs per day. At 1:20000, that's 4.5 years between seeing
| contaminated eggs. If the sanitary procedures reduce risk by
| 80%, they have a problem every 22 years or so.
|
| A moderately busy restaurant can use a thousand eggs per day.
| If their procedures are only 95% effective, they have a problem
| almost every year.
|
| 300 outbreaks in 15 years suggests that restaurants have egg
| handling procedures that are better than 95% effective.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| > a household of 4 might use a dozen eggs per day
|
| That's a lot!!! Even when I was raising chickens, we didn't
| get anywhere near those numbers: I gave away eggs like crazy.
|
| Maybe it's a societal thing? Certain cultures use eggs a lot
| more than others?
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Eggs are a pretty common breakfast item, and they are also
| used in many dishes. A dozen is on the high side, but if
| your whole family likes eggs for breakfast or you like to
| bake, I could see it.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Between 2 and 4 out of every hundred thousand people were
| getting sick from it, I don't know the exact maths but it seems
| believable that all of these statements are broadly true.
| [deleted]
| bovermyer wrote:
| Here's my recipe for eggnog:
|
| https://benovermyer.com/recipe/eggnog/
|
| I think I might try aging it. That sounds like a fun idea.
| jasonpeacock wrote:
| I use Alton Brown's recipe, and I've sampled at various ages.
| Personally, I couldn't tell the difference between 1mo up to 1yr.
| 1mo is the best, IMO, but you want at least 2wks to meld the
| flavors.
| deegles wrote:
| These articles come out of hibernation every year and remind me,
| but it's too late! This year I'm making a batch (without the
| dairy), labeling it, and leaving it for Christmas 2022.
| tpmx wrote:
| Make a great christmas mustard from scratch using mustard seeds
| instead. That's what I randomly got enthusiastic about today.
| Seems pretty easy, and with a pretty wide range of ways of
| mixing your way to your perfect mustard.
|
| Not sure if "christmas mustard" is a thing in the US though.
| Perhaps not.
| crookshanked wrote:
| It should be... I love the concept of seasonal mustards. Care
| to share what recipe you landed on?
| GravitasFailure wrote:
| >Not sure if "christmas mustard" is a thing in the US though.
| Perhaps not.
|
| Sadly, no. Maybe in the more German-influenced areas like
| Pennsylvania, but it does seem like a tradition that needs to
| be more widespread.
| asdffdsa wrote:
| Now that's how you write a title folks
| marban wrote:
| Just had a sip from a bottle that was stored open at room
| temperature for 4+ years. Apparently I'm still alive.
| brewdad wrote:
| _RemindMe_ 24 hours.
|
| ;-)
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