[HN Gopher] Turing Pi 2: 4 Raspberry Pi nodes on a mini ITX board
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       Turing Pi 2: 4 Raspberry Pi nodes on a mini ITX board
        
       Author : geerlingguy
       Score  : 150 points
       Date   : 2021-12-01 16:36 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
        
       | volfied wrote:
       | I am hoping someone can educate me. I do enjoy Jeff's articles
       | and videos, but I fail to see what these could be used for. I
       | concede that this is entirely due to my ignorance.
        
         | somethoughts wrote:
         | I think one thing that would be interesting would be a fully
         | native build environment and full native development tools for
         | the Raspberry Pi.
         | 
         | Building Ubuntu OS images from scratch on a Raspberry Pi server
         | equivalent machine would be very interesting.
         | 
         | For the non-embedded firmware engineer it is a-trivial to wrap
         | your head around initially w.r.t. cross compiling Linux distros
         | using ARM compilers running on an x86 host.
        
         | mataug wrote:
         | There are a lot of industrial and commercial applications. My
         | interest though is in running a low power cluster at home for
         | testing random applications that I build.
         | 
         | For example I'm writing an app for hosting documentation for
         | household items and integrating it with a label printer. It
         | would be great if I could host this and many other applications
         | locally on a K8s cluster instead of stringing together a bunch
         | of raspberry pis with a network switch, or hosting it on a
         | cloud service
        
           | donkeyd wrote:
           | > It would be great if I could host this and many other
           | applications locally on a K8s cluster instead of stringing
           | together a bunch of raspberry pis with a network switch, or
           | hosting it on a cloud service.
           | 
           | Pardon my ignorance, but why couldn't you run this on a NUC
           | or a NAS? Do you need HA for testing random apps? Or is it
           | just that this is more fun and a learning experience?
        
             | mataug wrote:
             | Yes a NUC or NAS could do the job as well, so my interest
             | is more of a fun learning experience.
        
             | cameron_b wrote:
             | My interest in this space is in the opportunity to test
             | assumptions when scaling wide. Those of us without
             | University compute access or Cloud budgets ( like
             | neighborhood STEM classes ) can plunk down for a desktop
             | learning environment that can run k8s or slurm and you can
             | learn / teach MPI programming patterns with hands-on, and
             | minimal risk.
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | I think most of these "cluster pi" things are really just
         | because some people don't want to have a cluster of VMs but a
         | "real" cluster instead.
        
         | lapetitejort wrote:
         | "Can I do it with a Pi?" is very similar to "Can I run Doom on
         | it?" Most of the projects exist just to see how far the
         | capabilities of a tiny computer can be stretched. However,
         | someone may realized that their five-figure project could be
         | done much cheaply with a Pi and HAT.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | A few of the most pertinent applications would be running an
         | application at a live event, where you might run off battery /
         | solar / small generator, and you don't have much of a power
         | budget, but would still want to replicate a small K3s cluster
         | setup locally for simplicity's sake. (I realize the irony of
         | including Kubernetes in a line about simplicity...).
         | 
         | But in general, it would be more focused on a lower budget /
         | lower power option for exploring small cluster ideas. Much more
         | fun to test things out or learn on a platform that costs $600
         | all-in and doesn't suck down a few hundred watts of power all
         | day, than to buy four used PCs that use more power, take up a
         | little more space, and cost maybe a little less, all-in.
         | 
         | It is a niche product, but nowhere near as niche as the
         | Seaberry board I showed last week :)
        
           | cameron_b wrote:
           | Cheers for this, I really enjoy the collaboration to play
           | against the "big toys" Patrick has.
           | 
           | Maybe I missed it, but are there I2C or GPIO broken out for
           | each module? I remember being really excited to the V1 Turing
           | board in regard to the mashup potential with cluster-type
           | things and the "Physical Computing" sensor / IO, but I didn't
           | see anyone try to solder in those pins.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | Each board has a UART header exposed, and through the MCU
             | it can be rebooted / flashed over the network. Full GPIO is
             | only exposed in a 40 pin header on node 1, though.
        
           | mysterydip wrote:
           | Might be interesting combined with VMware's ARM hypervisor
           | "fling" here https://flings.vmware.com/esxi-arm-edition to
           | make a toy "datacenter in a box", using the third node as a
           | NAS datastore.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | I'm going to sheepishly wonder out loud if too much sponsored
           | content will be to Jeff's channel's long-term detriment. I
           | would be excited too to have a popular channel growing and
           | being offered these cool toys but I have also seen blow-back
           | of late.
           | 
           | Perhaps it's just par for the course on HN though. Or perhaps
           | we're missing the more down-in-the-kernel hobbyist Jeff.
        
       | prettyStandard wrote:
       | Why do I enjoy these raspberry pi articles so much?
        
         | intrasight wrote:
         | For me it's because of the very idea of a $35 computer that's
         | as powerful as a million dollar computer was when I was at
         | university.
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | unfortunately due to the way they're mounted, it won't fit in a
       | 1U chassis...
        
       | xanaxagoras wrote:
       | Jeff Geerling is one of the best tech Youtube channels out there
        
         | lapetitejort wrote:
         | Red Shirt Jeff Geerling though? Still one of the best, let's be
         | real.
        
       | aejnsn wrote:
       | Except the Raspberry Pi Compute Modules for this are now 4-5x
       | their original price. I have a new Turing Pi in box that I refuse
       | to drop $500 on the CM3 boards for. I'd rather just buy a surplus
       | lot of desktop computers to build a toy cluster. I should
       | probably just sell the Turing Pi. Useless, never even got to boot
       | it. My Raspberry Pi 4 cluster works just fine though
        
         | lbhdc wrote:
         | I have a turing pi v1 too, and havent been able to play with it
         | because of this.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | The modules are the same price... just out of stock in
         | perpetuity.
         | 
         | A few months ago I'd find some here and there at Micro Center,
         | but they've been out of stock for months.
         | 
         | If you're patient you can get them at list price, though--I
         | ordered the four 8GB Lite modules I used in the video over the
         | past year, from two different suppliers.
        
       | sussexby wrote:
       | I have a similar-ish setup in the form of the ClusterHAT on a Pi
       | 4 with 4x Pi Zero W connected to it. It gives me 4 individual Pi
       | Zero machines (each with wireless) connected over the USB-
       | Ethernet gadget interface to the Pi 4 which you can then bridge
       | the interfaces as you need.
       | 
       | My purpose was to have a SFF of individual wireless clients that
       | I could control over SSH to do some network testing. Added
       | benefit, the whole thing can be powered from a single PSU into
       | the Pi 4.
        
         | rcarmo wrote:
         | I wonder if that will take the Zero 2W without excessive power
         | drain.
        
       | busymom0 wrote:
       | Other than raspberry pi, does anyone know of an even lower
       | powered board which can run a very simply web server (only needs
       | to return a single html file)? I have an idea for a fun hobby
       | project where I want to connect my echo bike (for cardio) to the
       | board which charges it everyday and returns an html with how much
       | I charged it and daily cardio stats. Basically, if I don't do
       | cardio, then the board won't be charged enough to keep the site
       | up, so that gives me incentive to do it regularly.
        
         | ubergesundheit wrote:
         | This can be achieved with the original ESP 8266
        
       | Uehreka wrote:
       | Every time something like this gets posted on HN, my brain does
       | the same thing: "Neat! I wonder what Jeff Geerling will think of
       | --Oh! This _is_ him!"
       | 
       | Keep up the good work, and looking forward to hearing about if
       | you're able to get those Coral AI TPUs working!
        
       | ianai wrote:
       | Jeff thank you so much for your continued work with the Pi!! I've
       | learned so much from your book and YouTube content.
        
       | intrasight wrote:
       | Neat. How would this be used in edge infrastructure? And more
       | broadly, what exactly is "edge infrastructure"?
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Cynically "edge" is the way to say "not everything actually
         | makes sense to run in the cloud but we can't go back on the
         | marketing push that on prem infrastructure is a fossil so we'll
         | call it edge". Or at least that's what it's meant at the last
         | couple of companies I've worked for/with that were convinced
         | they were going to "move everything to the cloud" despite the
         | cries that the goal should be "move most things to the cloud"
         | at the start. The marketing headline that tends to go with it
         | is "edge is where the users are" but really it's come to mean
         | any place you have non cloud infrastructure closer to the user
         | than the internet (i.e. likely every place you have non cloud
         | infrastructure).
         | 
         | Less cynically some try to use it as a differentiator for
         | running cloud services dispersed as close to users as possible
         | for performance reasons vs running cloud services in
         | centralized locations to reap the benefits of hyper scaling.
         | Leaving "on premise infrastructure" to mean "legacy
         | infrastructure" instead of allowing the term to follow any
         | changes in the way that on premise infrastructure is run over
         | time.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > Cynically "edge" is the way to say "not everything actually
           | makes sense to run in the cloud but we can't go back on the
           | marketing push that on prem infrastructure is a fossil so
           | we'll call it edge".
           | 
           | "Edge" is (mostly) also cloud, but with stronger guarantees
           | of ntopological proximity to users than general-purpose cloud
           | regions provide. On-prem is, well, on-prem, not generally
           | referred to as "edge".
        
           | intrasight wrote:
           | I'd never considered "on premise" to be a type of "edge
           | infrastructure" before, but technically I guess it is. But
           | I'll stick to calling it "on premise" - because it's not "on
           | premise" in order to have cloud services close to the user.
           | It just hasn't yet migrated to the cloud.
           | 
           | So keeping with the "cloud but close to user", where would
           | this or any similar device play a role in edge
           | infrastructure? Don't cloud/edge providers use the same
           | hardware for both? Nobody is going to use this in production,
           | and I don't see a role for testing either.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | It's a shitty choice for Edge device for sure but it's
             | still an edge device. Just like it's a shitty Linux
             | computer but still a computer. "Edge" is about where not
             | what just like whether something is a "cloud" doesn't
             | change based on if a Pi is used or not.
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | I love reading about all of these exotic Raspberry Pi projects
       | and people pushing the Raspberry Pi into applications far beyond
       | what you'd expect.
       | 
       | But at the same time, I always hope that people recognize that
       | these things are really not great solutions in general. This
       | contraption idles at 15W (per the article) and pulls 24W during a
       | benchmark. Within that power envelope you can pick up a more
       | powerful tiny x86 board that takes up less space, probably costs
       | less overall, and performs much better without requiring you to
       | coordinate your project across 4 separate tiny computers.
       | 
       | The Pi is a lot of fun and the Raspberry Pi foundation has done
       | an excellent job of bringing us powerful ARM processors at low
       | price points, but the gap between Quad Cortex-A72 and even a
       | cheap, low-power x86 board is still massive.
       | 
       | But on the other hand if you're doing this for learning and for
       | fun, these things are awesome.
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | Though unfortunately the Mini-ITX space has been left do dangle
         | for a few years now; most of the affordable (<300 money) boards
         | have pretty old CPUs.
         | 
         | AMD hasn't had something new in that space for a very long time
         | - E-350/450 based boards were just recently discontinued, and
         | that was a 10 year old part. The only other boards still
         | available seem to be re-spins to sell of 5-6 year old APUs.
         | These were decent in their time, but time has moved on. The
         | E-350/450 were also bundled with crappy southbridges which
         | consumed way more power than the CPU itself - when you see one
         | of these boards, the _smaller_ , fanless heatsink is for the
         | CPU, the big one for the southbridge.
         | 
         | VIA has been gone for some time.
         | 
         | All the Intel boards are 14nm or 22nm parts, usually from
         | 2014-2017. Newest boards seem to use the J4125 - a Goldmont
         | refresh from 2019.
         | 
         | Intel at least offers some newer stuff in the NUC form factor
         | (though at much higher prices as well). NUCs are pretty non-
         | standard form factor though and offer PCIe only through M.2, so
         | for I/O you'll need an awkward M.2-to-PCIe adapter with a
         | cable. AMD really only has that 4700S kit (which uses a PS5 SoC
         | with defective iGPU as I understand it) at around 400 currency.
         | The 4700S seems to have ridiculous idle power draw (~80 W -
         | maybe power management for the GDDR and other parts are
         | disabled together with the iGPU).
         | 
         | There are _some_ ARM boards now with PCIe. The RPi CM4 has a
         | PCIe 2.0 x1, which is not a lot but maybe good enough for some
         | use cases. The RockPro64 has an PCIe _1.0_ x4 slot; the RockPi4
         | has an extremely awkwardly positioned M.2 slot (same PCIe 1.0
         | x4, it 's the same SoC as the RockPro64).
         | 
         | None of these are great options.
        
           | I_dev_outdoors wrote:
           | There's plenty of Mini-ITX motherboards which accept a
           | socket-ed processor though. It's less of a specialty form
           | factor these days where only VIA is participating in and
           | something that more mainstream manufactures are making as
           | well such as Gigabyte and ASUS.
        
           | floatboth wrote:
           | The RPi4 SoC has a busted PCIe controller (can't do 64-bit
           | operations), the Rockchip one has a very small BAR size
           | limit, so neither can run GPUs for example.
           | 
           | The _real_ ARM board options are SolidRun MACCHIATObin and
           | SolidRun HoneyComb LX2K.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | Picking up a generic Intel Mini-ITX board and dropping a
           | cheap Celeron or i3 into it can produce some surprisingly low
           | idle powers. Around 10-11W is not uncommon, which is lower
           | than this quad Raspberry Pi 4 board.
           | 
           | The key is to pick motherboards with minimal features (few
           | extra chips to power) and an Intel CPU. Intel historically
           | has much better idle power than AMD, although AMD held the
           | power efficiency crown under full load for a while.
           | 
           | Here's a random example from years ago of a cheap Mini-ITX
           | motherboard and CPU with minimal idle power:
           | https://mattgadient.com/building-a-low-power-pc-on-
           | skylake-1...
           | 
           | The ITX motherboards with built-in CPUs are great if you can
           | find them, but they basically disappeared when the chip
           | shortage kicked in. CPU vendors put all of their production
           | into the expensive money-making parts.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | Indeed, the number of acceptable ITX boards is in single
           | digits now for last gen CPUs.
        
             | 1MachineElf wrote:
             | >last get CPUs
             | 
             | Did you mean "last _gen_ CPUs "?
             | 
             | If indeed that was a typo, I think it would be a difficult
             | one to make on a QWERTY keyboard, because the N key isn't
             | very close to the T key. Are you a Dvorak typist, by
             | chance?
        
               | bobnamob wrote:
               | More likely to be phone keyboard auto correct.
        
               | baybal2 wrote:
               | That's right partially too. Autocorrect is tuned to
               | qwerty for its hamming distance data used, and other
               | statistics.
        
               | baybal2 wrote:
               | Yes, you are right. But my current laptop comes with
               | qwerty labels. Never managed to get time to move the
               | keycaps.
        
         | pdpi wrote:
         | I've been meaning to build something like this for a while now,
         | and "performs much better without requiring you to coordinate
         | your project across 4 separate tiny computers." is pretty much
         | my motivation to do it -- I _want_ a sufficiently limited setup
         | where I 'll hit bottlenecks with relatively small workloads,
         | because the whole point is playing with evading those
         | bottlenecks.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | I totally understand. This is a fun way to do it.
           | 
           | A cheaper option would also be to run a lot of virtual
           | machines on a single device and only assign them limited CPU
           | and RAM budgets.
           | 
           | You can actually do this all within a single Raspberry Pi 4
           | 8GB with ESXi: https://www.servethehome.com/getting-started-
           | with-vmware-esx...
           | 
           | Not going to lie: I'd still enjoy having one of these Quad-Pi
           | boards to play with, though.
        
             | ClumsyPilot wrote:
             | Doing it with physical machine ls gives the real
             | understsnding and ferls that you just dont get from the VM
             | stuff
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | I'm almost wondering if this might be useful for a research
           | lab, to prototype HPC algorithms. Like, I don't really want
           | to run stuff on a big cluster or supercomputer while running
           | my code. And it would be nice to have a tiny little cluster
           | that hits bottlenecks while solving matrices that I can
           | easily run on my desktop.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Probably not a research lab, but maybe an educational lab.
             | Experience problems with multi-node systems and learn to
             | work around them, but expect real application problems to
             | be different.
        
             | jcrawfordor wrote:
             | The problem here is that the fidelity of a test run on a
             | raspberry pi cluster, as compared to one run on the actual
             | target hardware, is about the same as running the test on a
             | cheaper and easier simulator environment of VMs.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | The Pi generally has pretty atrocious power management, with
         | linear regulators and no option to sleep or save power in any
         | way aside from turning off stuff like USB controllers. It would
         | probably cost them like $2 in parts to add switch mode power
         | supplies and they'd reduce power consumption by at least half
         | if not more. But no we can't afford a few dollars worth' of
         | parts on an $80 product to improve quality of life
         | significantly lmao.
         | 
         | Imagine all the battery powered applications where this would
         | be a night and day difference.
        
           | bri3d wrote:
           | I don't think the Pi uses linear regulators anymore - the Pi
           | 1 certainly did, but for example the Pi 3B+ uses a MXL7704,
           | which includes several buck regulators together.
           | 
           | https://assets.maxlinear.com/web/documents/mxl7704.pdf
        
           | andai wrote:
           | Does anyone offer a comparable product that does that? Might
           | be worth building one just to scare them into fixing it.
        
             | foxfluff wrote:
             | There are tons of SBCs out there, but none of them scare
             | Raspberry Foundation because none of them have the wide
             | distribution, brand recognition, and large community that
             | goes with it. It's very much a popularity feeds popularity
             | market.
        
         | cpach wrote:
         | What are some good x86-64 alternatives to the Raspberry Pi?
         | Asking since I'm quite out-of-date in my hardware knowledge. I
         | guess what I want is low energy consumption, ~8 GB RAM (or
         | more) and enough CPU to run a bunch of Docker containers. And a
         | price tag that's not higher than the Pi.
        
           | scottlamb wrote:
           | I don't think you're going to find anything as cheap as a
           | single Pi, but you should be able to find something cheaper
           | than the Turing Pi 2 ($200?), 4 of its CM4 adapters ($40
           | total), and 4 Raspberry Pi CM4s ($140 total): $380ish.
           | 
           | One option is to buy a used Intel NUC on eBay. I bought one
           | for $235 (with RAM, SSD, and case) a couple years ago that
           | satisfies all that.
           | 
           | I haven't looked into a lot of the other x86-64 SBCs. I
           | really liked the ODROID-H2+ but it's discontinued due to
           | supply chain problems. I'm hoping an ODROID-H3 or something
           | will come out next year.
        
           | worker767424 wrote:
           | Some of the modern Atom CPUs might fit the bill.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Pragmatic (as usual). ;-)
         | 
         | I'm not so sure though that we're not seeing early forays into
         | something that will in fact come down in cost, go up in
         | efficiency.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | There's a lot of bad things about Intel and x86 that I don't
         | have to worry about with this:
         | 
         | - I don't have to worry about Intel ME backdoors.
         | 
         | - I don't have to worry about UEFI at all.
         | 
         | - I have 4 sets of cores that are physically separated, so I
         | have a real defense against spectre-type vulnerabilities. E.g.
         | public-facing nginx can go on one, backend application server
         | can go on another, and SQL server on a third.
         | 
         | - Doesn't look like I really need any fans.
        
         | bullen wrote:
         | I always reply to these comments because well they are simply
         | wrong for regular Raspberry clusters (this one is stupid
         | though, but still fun to watch):
         | 
         | 1) The Raspberry Pi 4 is THE cheapest 2Gflops/W computer ever
         | made and probably that will ever be made in the future too!
         | Peak of energy/resources/lithography/architectures and velocity
         | of money against that, will most likely make it so.
         | 
         | 2) You can scale the Raspberry cluster as you want it, only
         | power the nodes you need, it's modular, one breaks you still
         | have a few left, same for the SD cards which BTW while being so
         | slow a Raspberry 2 (2W!) can saturate them they are
         | SURPRISINGLY sturdy (my original SanDisc (every other brand has
         | been a complete scam) are on their 7th year of 99.999% uptime,
         | down when my power company cut the electricity for an hour).
         | 
         | 3) The Raspberry cluster is smaller, cooler and silent (if
         | passively cooled, it's the most powerful device that can be
         | fully passively cooled at 100% CPU (7W) without becoming too
         | hot to wear early) and wont fail because of failing fans!
         | 
         | 4) For battery backup there is nothing better because beyond
         | total of 100W for 24 hours you start to see the limits of what
         | is practical to manage on a individual basis.
         | 
         | I post this picture every time:
         | http://move.rupy.se/file/final_pi_2_4_hybrid.png (this is how
         | you cool a Raspberry 2/4 hybrid cluster)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Terry_Roll wrote:
           | Expanding on #2, when thinking of things like Spectre &
           | Meltdown ie CISC HW flaws, offloading or running a variety of
           | services/daemons on physically separate machines can also
           | improve security. We all get told to reduce the attack vector
           | and this is one way to do that. The organisational hierarchy
           | best exemplifies this security isolation point for an entity,
           | like businesses, govts, etc etc.
        
             | qayxc wrote:
             | > when thinking of things like Spectre & Meltdown ie CISC
             | HW flaws
             | 
             | Spectre in particular is not a CISC HW flaw. It affects ARM
             | and other RISC architectures as well:
             | https://developer.arm.com/support/arm-security-
             | updates/specu...
        
               | Terry_Roll wrote:
               | Know your HW. https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/why-
               | raspberry-pi-isnt-vulne... "Both vulnerabilities exploit
               | performance features (caching and speculative execution)
               | common to many modern processors to leak data via a so-
               | called side-channel attack. Happily, the Raspberry Pi
               | isn't susceptible to these vulnerabilities, because of
               | the particular ARM cores that we use."
        
               | bullen wrote:
               | A72 is susceptible to Spectre because it has speculative
               | execution I think.
               | 
               | That article was written before the release of Pi 4: 5th
               | Jan 2018
               | 
               | https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=243416
               | 
               | You don't get to 2 Gflops/W that easily!
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | > But at the same time, I always hope that people recognize
         | that these things are really not great solutions in general.
         | This contraption idles at 15W (per the article) and pulls 24W
         | during a benchmark. Within that power envelope you can pick up
         | a more powerful tiny x86 board that takes up less space,
         | probably costs less overall, and performs much better without
         | requiring you to coordinate your project across 4 separate tiny
         | computers.
         | 
         | I agree with all of this and if you really need to have
         | multiple separate systems (such as to test/develop some
         | clustering thing) you can easily turn a 25W-35W max TDP, x86-64
         | motherboard and cpu combo into a xen or kvm hypervisor, on
         | debian or centos.
         | 
         | And put as many VMs as you need on that.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > Within that power envelope you can pick up a more powerful
         | tiny x86 board
         | 
         | Which is a poor solution as a local dev/test platform for apps
         | to be deployed to ARM cloud platforms, which seems to be the
         | selling point of this.
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | > a more powerful tiny x86 board that takes up less space,
         | probably costs less overall
         | 
         | It seems like it should be this way but when it comes down to
         | cases, for example making a network gateway, a lot of the
         | options that get thrown around are frustratingly costly. As in,
         | _a laptop motherboard that does twice what this x86 SBC does
         | would cost half what this does_ costly.
         | 
         | I'd really like to know what x86 SBCs are now considered to be
         | real Raspberry Pi competitors, or even considered to be in the
         | ballpark. When the subject of ARM based RPi competitors comes
         | up, it's usually a conversation about the level of support
         | those boards offer, and in that regard being x86 based is
         | obviously a total game changer.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | If this board is $200 and the 4 raspberry pi modules you plug
           | in need an adapter at $10 each and cost between $25 (1g ram,
           | no wireless, no storage) and $70 (8g ram, no wireless, no
           | storage), and we consider Mini-ITX to be tiny (debatable),
           | we've got a budget of $340 to $520 if I can arithmetic. And
           | we need motherboard + cpu + ram.
           | 
           | PC parts prices aren't great right now, but a AMD Ryzen 5600G
           | @ $240, an ASRock A520M-ITX/ac @ $105, and a Silicon Gaming
           | 2x 16GB of DDR4-3200 for $90, is $435 [1]; assuming the
           | firmware shipped with the board is new enough for the CPU (i
           | didn't check if you can flash this board without a supported
           | CPU). You can limit the CPU power in firmware settings, and
           | to hold close to the power usage of this cluster board.
           | 
           | If you only get 4G ram, you can save some money, but not
           | enough to get under the lowest pi cluster with current
           | pricing. If you need it less expensive, you could maybe get
           | an older AMD processor or look at intel.
           | 
           | If you want smaller than itx, it gets hard. Maybe reuse a
           | chromebox or similar, but then you don't have much choice of
           | hardware and connectivity.
           | 
           | [1] https://pcpartpicker.com/list/yCj2vf
        
         | scottlamb wrote:
         | It might make more sense with the nVidia Jetson option. [1]
         | Each one is considerably faster than the Pi CM4 at both general
         | computational tasks and GPU-focused ones (like video
         | decoding/encoding and machine learning). I wouldn't be too
         | surprised if four of those outperformed a comparably
         | priced/power-hungry/sized x86-64 machine for the right
         | workload. YMMV. (That goes for any of the three Jetson models
         | they list.)
         | 
         | I'm also curious to see what the Turing TCM turns out to be.
         | 
         | Though the IO is still limited to the one GbE port + one PCIe
         | 2.0 channel per device for anything you cram in there...and the
         | heterogenous use of the PCIe channel may or may not match what
         | you want...
         | 
         | [1] https://turingpi.com/turing-pi-v2-is-here/
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | The first few lines of this article made it clear this was
         | learning oriented and a "challenge" from a friendly
         | competition.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | I love the "lets do something just for the sake of it"
           | approach in life.
           | 
           | Too often economic thinking restrict from fun creations and
           | discoveries
        
         | inetknght wrote:
         | > _Within that power envelope you can pick up a more powerful
         | tiny x86 board that takes up less space, probably costs less
         | overall, and performs much better without requiring you to
         | coordinate your project across 4 separate tiny computers._
         | 
         | I am convinced that Intel _does not_ deliver on that.
         | 
         | What tiny x86 board is comparable to the Raspberry Pi? I'm
         | looking for excellent Linux support, with well documented
         | GPIO/ADC/DACs, and as few closed-source hardwares as possible
         | at a similar price point. If I want to talk directly to the
         | ethernet controller (for example) then I should be able to look
         | at the board's documentation without having to sign any NDA.
        
           | foxfluff wrote:
           | So you have found docs for the Broadcom SoCs on the Pi
           | without NDA? That would be newsworthy. The ethernet
           | controller lives in the SoC btw, and talks to a phy. That's
           | another boardcom chip. See if you can find a datasheet for
           | BCM54210. The Pi is _not_ open hardware, even the schematic
           | is a joke. Broadcom is another way to spell  "NDA" and "no
           | docs for plebs."
           | 
           | I don't know about price but you absolutely can find Mini-ITX
           | (and smaller) Intel based systems that idle at 5-15 watts and
           | perform better than the Pi. At $200 for the cluster board,
           | $40 for the adapters, and ~$50 a pop times 4 for the CM4s,
           | we're talking $400-$500 and that's not far off from the price
           | of some of these low end x86-64 systems that -- yess -- are
           | much faster than the Pi 4.
        
           | bri3d wrote:
           | It's worth pointing out that the Pi isn't open by anyone's
           | definition or any stretch of the imagination. But, it sounds
           | like you want a Pi for the thing it's actually somewhat good
           | at, which is not running Kubernetes on a 4-way cluster board
           | with an ATX power supply.
           | 
           | The Pi is nice because it's a bridge between microcontrollers
           | and normal OS-grade computing. You can have a full desktop
           | environment and also have GPIOs and SPI peripherals talking
           | to the outside world. This is pretty cool and is a nice
           | little niche to be in. I don't think anything really beats
           | the Pi here - there are Rockchip and Allwinner based boards
           | that compete, but they're all just different facets of the
           | same gem so to speak.
           | 
           | Once you stop using those microcontroller-style
           | functionalities and bridges to the real world and start using
           | the Pi as a cluster server, things don't really make sense
           | anymore to me. I get why people do this for fun (just like
           | back in the day people would set up MPI/Beowulf clusters of
           | whatever cast-off vintage desktops they could find), but for
           | practicality points, there's no good argument for the Pi IMO.
           | 
           | Compared to this 4x cluster board, an Intel NUC 11 Tiger
           | Canyon comes in at a similar price point, 3x+ the
           | performance/watt, and at least 5x the performance (for real
           | workloads that touch I/O, probably 10x or more).
        
             | lowbloodsugar wrote:
             | >Compared to this 4x cluster board, an Intel NUC 11 Tiger
             | Canyon comes in at a similar price point, 3x+ the
             | performance/watt, and at least 5x the performance (for real
             | workloads that touch I/O, probably 10x or more).
             | 
             | google shopping says not. and is the i5 3x faster than 16
             | ARM cores at 25W (or any W)? (i have no idea - genuine
             | question)
        
       | nsky-world wrote:
       | We are waited for this for soooo loooong!!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rsync wrote:
       | What is the metal mount used for the board in this picture:
       | 
       | https://www.jeffgeerling.com/sites/default/files/images/turi...
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | That's a BC1 mini from Streacom.
        
         | qayxc wrote:
         | BC1 mini ITX build platform: https://amzn.to/3xHoHXt
        
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