[HN Gopher] Doctor Web discovered vulnerabilities in children's ...
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       Doctor Web discovered vulnerabilities in children's smart watches
        
       Author : nazgulsenpai
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2021-12-01 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.drweb.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.drweb.com)
        
       | Aromasin wrote:
       | EDIT: Someone deleted the comment I was replying to, but I've put
       | enough time into writing it that I'd like to post it as a
       | separate one anyway. The original person, in short, was
       | discussing how disgusting it is for companies to intentionally
       | build ad-tech into their products like this and this was my
       | reply.
       | 
       | --------------------
       | 
       | >"we should make smart watches for kids, and then sell the data
       | to ad-tech companies, or use it to profile children so that we
       | can make predictions about peoples adolescent and adult behavior
       | based on categories of childhood behaviors that emerge from the
       | data, and then leverage that data to charge them more for other
       | products later in life."
       | 
       | I don't think you're wrong, but I do think (as someone who
       | engineers IoT products for a living) that it's often the nature
       | of large corporations putting employees into silo's that enable
       | things like this, not necessarily that most people are morally
       | bankrupt. It's more to do with ignorance and negligence.
       | 
       | I might design a device, and extract data from it to give back to
       | the user to help them make informed decisions about their health
       | (heart rate, sleep health, step tracking, device time usage etc.)
       | All useful information to have that can arguably help make their
       | life better. At no point do I want this data to be used for
       | anything insidious - it's against my own principles, and
       | according to the constant bombardment I get during corporate
       | culture trainings, against theirs too.
       | 
       | Using the same tools that I created, a data scientist in the
       | company takes this raw information and performs some analytics.
       | They track how long the batteries last, what the network coverage
       | is like, what locations these devices are used in etc. They use
       | this data to produce actionable insights, in order to help make
       | future products better and give the engineers some points to draw
       | from, as well as to know what people are using it for. Again,
       | they're not doing anything worrying with this information;
       | they're simply trying to help improve visibility of the data with
       | some nice graphs and such, ready to make the next product more
       | efficient, reliable or affordable.
       | 
       | Here you reach the business folks. You're now a few degrees of
       | separation from the people who made the product. The business
       | people are looking for any way they can monetize the assets that
       | they have. They find that they're sat on a mountain of data,
       | which while intended to improve the lives of the people it was
       | taken from or used to improve the next generation of product, has
       | the potential for much more value beyond that. Some external
       | customers are offering to pay a lot of money for this data, with
       | the surety that it'll be used to help other companies design
       | other great and valuable products. This is where I say the
       | negligence comes in. All it takes is someone not doing their due
       | diligence, and this data makes it's way to some scummy ad-tech
       | company who are directly in the business of manipulation-for-
       | profit.
       | 
       | I'm not trying to divert responsibility from any party here. I
       | constantly question whether I'm in the right industry and should
       | stop making these products as they have such potential for harm,
       | but equally I think it can and has been a force for good (be it
       | for energy saving, medical usage, industry optimization, or early
       | disaster warning) and maybe following Luddite philosophy would
       | equally be the wrong thing to do. It's a debate I have internally
       | almost every day. I think we're moving in the right direction,
       | using edge insights to perform all the privacy essential
       | processing on the device instead of the cloud, and implementing
       | new standards on how we store and use peoples data, but all it
       | takes is a situation like the above for it to end up in the wrong
       | hands.
        
         | dhimes wrote:
         | I'm not sure it's necessarily negligence. I can also see the
         | scenario where they feel forced to monetize the data if their
         | competitors do. All it takes is one morally bankrupt decision
         | (or negligent, if we're being charitable) to start a race to
         | the bottom.
         | 
         | Any push-back will be met with "well, it's not illegal, our
         | competitors are doing it, and we're obligated to do what's best
         | for our shareholders."
         | 
         | That's why I'm in favor of regulations/laws to stop this crap.
         | Good limits on behavior help honest business people.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | fsflover wrote:
       | More people should consider open-source smart watches PineTime:
       | https://www.pine64.org/pinetime/.
        
         | tata71 wrote:
         | Can anything like this run AsteroidOS yet?
         | 
         | https://asteroidos.org/install/
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | No, but it runs many other things:
           | https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PineTime_Development.
        
         | ipv6ipv4 wrote:
         | It doesn't have cellular capability or even WiFi support. It's
         | not remotely comparable to the watches in the article.
        
           | zo1 wrote:
           | Anyone have any suggestions that do?
        
           | paulcarroty wrote:
           | Bluetooth 5, guess you can share the internet through.
        
       | hvgk wrote:
       | Moral of the story: don't buy any old smart garbage off the
       | internet. It probably doesn't have your best interests at heart.
        
       | Onetanit wrote:
       | It's a shame to hear that. I never would have thought there would
       | be such a problem with the watch. I recently won a good amount of
       | money at the casino https://freshcasinobonus.com/casino-
       | bonuses/free-spins/ and just ordered a watch like this for my
       | little daughter. Now I think to return it back, but what to
       | choose to replace it has no options(
        
         | nanch wrote:
         | Spam
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | If you click into the comment (click the time just past the
           | name) you can "flag" it, which is the appropriate thing for
           | spam. (Please don't flag comments you merely disagree with,
           | keep it for actual spam or threats, etc).
           | 
           | Under your profile you can also enable "See dead" which will
           | let you see flagged comments.
        
             | LukeShu wrote:
             | You can't flag a post if you don't have enough karma. What
             | the threshold is gets tuned periodically, but I seem to
             | remember that you get a lot of features at 500 karma; nanch
             | currently has 409 karma, so I wouldn't be surprised if he
             | can't flag it.
        
               | jerknextdoor wrote:
               | I only have 32 karma and I have the ability to flag.
        
           | tata71 wrote:
           | Hey, whatever happened to tarbackup?
        
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       (page generated 2021-12-01 23:03 UTC)